Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: 75starflight on August 28, 2012, 11:24:54 PM
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Amber and I are looking at doing an engine swap on the Phoenix in the next year or two. Found a donor boat 2 hours from me that looks to be a good candidate.
http://lincoln.craigslist.org/boa/3231330932.html (http://lincoln.craigslist.org/boa/3231330932.html)
Its been on craigslist for the past 2 months so I am hoping to go look at it and try to get it on the cheap. Just was wondering what to look for on these engines. It already has the alternator conversion done. Thanks for any information that can be provided.
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I am a fan of that engine, maybe the only one. I've got the same engine in my V174. The "470" engine is about 6 inches longer than the GM 4 cylinder 2.5 & 3.0 Liter engines, and with the alternator conversion kit sporting the add-on pulley then add another 6 inches on top of that for clearance. So, if your engine bay can fit a GM in-line 6 engine then you may be able to fit the "470" engine. You''ll probably have to mod the boat by moving the front engine mounting plank further forward. Compressions readings should be 140-150 psi/cylinder on a good engine.
The one you're looking as has got the original style exhaust manifold and elbow which are no longer available so if you ever had to replace them you'll have to upgrade to the newer version. You may have clearance issues getting the old-style manifold with the coolant reservoir up front to fit inside your engine cover. The newer version manifold has the coolant reservoir in the back as part of the elbow, something to think about.
The engine has closed cooling which circulates glycol like your car engine through a heat exchange system. The early 470's had a 3 inch diameter heat exchange cylinder but many people upgrade to the later 4 inch version for more efficient cooling. I would look into changing out the points ignition for a Pertronix ignition. I did that and it idles and runs so much better vs. points. As long as it's been well cared for and maintained and the engine isn't making any unusual sounds like tapping or knocking and the compression is good then they are good work-horse engines. Sometimes they moan a bit when first started because of an oil bypass valve but it's momentary until the engine warms up. Also check for oil or coolant leaks. With the bigger more powerful engine you'll also have to change the drive so the gear ratio is more accommodating. The 3.7 and V6 engines use the 1.84:1 ratio, the donor boat may have what you need already on it. Feel free to ask any more questions, I'm off to work now. ;)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Finishing%20Touches/IMG_0669.jpg)
(http://images.craigslist.org/5N95Q35F93Ge3Kd3L6c8q20db057aa3111de2.jpg)
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Dang! There goes that idea! My 120 is a perfect fit. Looks like the hunt is on for a 140 at this point.
Wish me luck!
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Red could put a Stroker together for ya. The length would be about right. Beat any 6 cyl out there.
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Red could put a Stroker together for ya. The length would be about right. Beat any 6 cyl out there.
I like that idea! Fastest tri-hull in the world!!!
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They race those things like they're crazy. Somebody will find the link I hope.
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Jerry a stroker motor would be sweet, but way to far out of my projected budget! But...... I wouldn't mind putting a V8 in the Phoenix if I could find a mercruiser that would fit.
So....if all of you with V8 mercs could get me dimensions
depth from transom to front of engine
total height from lowest point to highest point
and overall width
it would be great! I do have all winter and next year to find a donor boat in the price I want to spend.
Amber and I want to turn the Phoenix into our speed boat and find something bigger say a CV-23 to take family on and to pull tubes skiers ect. with.
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Here you go Brandon, 300HP OMC Sea Drive...Problem Solved just bolt it on...
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Brandon, I think copying Rich's engine swap & mods would be an awesome project & a nice powerplant for Phoenix Rising.
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Yeah it would make a nice power plant, but with the added 12 inches to the front of the engine I would have to do some serious modification to the engine cover. As in cutting it into 2 pieces and then adding at least 12 inches to be able to cover that engine.
Rich just out of curiosity could you get me the measurement from your transom to the front of the alternator conversion pulley?
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OR...you just move the cover forward and fill in the back with wood & cover it with the Orange upholstery from Veada to match?
Or an off-white upholstery that matched the gel color.
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Yeah it would make a nice power plant, but with the added 12 inches to the front of the engine I would have to do some serious modification to the engine cover. As in cutting it into 2 pieces and then adding at least 12 inches to be able to cover that engine.
Rich just out of curiosity could you get me the measurement from your transom to the front of the alternator conversion pulley?
I'll see if I can get the measurement sometime tomorrow nite. I know the engine mount is about 6 inches forward from the GM 4 cylinder, the same distance as the span of a 2x6 piece of wood. When you add the pulley it may be more like an additional 4 inches. However there are other alternator conversion kits on ebay that don't use the add-on pulley. Instead they use the belt groove that is already part of the harmonic balancer. They just use different mounting brackets for the alternator. Another thing that needs to be taken into account is the engine you're looking at has a pre-Alpha drive and transom assembly so the spacing between the engine flywheel bell and the transom may be less by an inch or so compared to mine. The Alpha mounting bell and transom assembly I have is spaced a just little more forward. My engine bay and cover were designed to accommodate various engine options which included the GM in-line 6 so fitting the 3.7 liter wasn't a problem, I still have several inches of space between the alternator pulley and the front of the engine box.
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Thank you Rich, that information is very helpful.
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Brandon
I would be more then happy to look at anything in the Lincoln Area if you want, not an export inboards but if I can help you save some windshield time I can do that.
Joe
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Thanks Joe, Amber and I were thinking of possibly coming to Lincoln to look at that boat this weekend. If we don't make it there, I just might take you up on that!
Thanks Again.
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Not a problem, I have to admit I'm actually a old fan of those Mark Twains, they made a nice boat and a ton of them are still running...
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Do you have any used Skid Steers where you work, I'm tring to find one for my work, I have a Bobcat 463 looking for something larger to push some snow.
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Nope we sure don't. Used to be a Gehl Dealer, but we did not renew our contract when the new owners of Gehl Company demanded that we keep 10 units on our lot.
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Btw I was wondering if you have been out on branched oak lake lately. If so how are the water levels? Trying to find a place to go since Sherman and Calamus are pretty much non accessable!
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The water levels are down, but we had no problems a few weeks ago at Branch oak, I have only had my boat out a few time this year too much going on. Do you ever go over to Victory Lake in Fremont, its a small small lake but a sand pit and I prefer that over the mud...
Joe
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Rich just out of curiosity could you get me the measurement from your transom to the front of the alternator conversion pulley?
Ok, I measured from the transom to the front of the engine mount, it is about 35 inches. To the front of the alternator pulley it's about 38.5 inches. The slope angle of the transom may affect the measurements - the higher you are on the transom the longer the measurement is going to be so I took the measurement parallel to the floor at the height of the front mounting plank.
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Thanks Rich, I will do some measuring tomorrow.
Joe, nope never been on any lakes in the eastern part of the state yet. Wow, is Victory lake is smaller than branch oak? If it is the last time i drove around branched oak I thought it was small! I guess I am too used to Sherman and Calamus!
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Victory lake is about 1/10 the size of Branck Oak, it is a small lake around an island, we don't go on the weekends because it is like a NASAR track but it is a sand pit and you can pull up to the beach and lay around all day...
Joe
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After looking at your pics again I see your engine bay has you limited to the 3.0 engine. They got the front of the engine box and cover right up against the engine mount. I would have liked to have seen what that boat would do with the 470 engine, it would've been FAST!
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/95404F77-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/9DDD6C4D-orig.jpg)
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yep me too rich, Me Too :'(
I am thinking maybe in a couple of years finding another v or t 179 and doing some serious mods to fit that 470 or maybe a v8 and making it an open bow 2 seater. Because i am curious to see what this haul design can do really do!
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That haul would really hull ass !!! ;)