Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: 17ireid on May 18, 2016, 10:05:52 AM
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Starting to think about what color for my CVX-16.
Some details: I'm using a high quality BC/CC system and painting in a high tech facility, surface is too far gone for regelcoating all crazed and porous.
I like silver it's more original/true to the boat's style, and has the potential to really turn some heads. Also matching interior and components with silver is very easy.
I like Red and White because who doesn't like a red and white anything (red is also my favorite color). You just can't go wrong red and white.
Any other ideas or suggestions would be great too!
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I am Bias and always vote Orange. Here is a pic of my old CVX 18. I painted it with Base Clear. I bought my metal flake from Roth Flake. Clear coat from SPI. I am also currently restoring a CV-23 and doing the same colors.
Once my Daughter gets a little older I will prob do a Purple or Blue one for her.
However the silver ones are nice as well.
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though its not the "correct" color i would always vote for plum (purple) flake as seen on the 72 cv
if i do flake again on something it will most likely be that.
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I'm a fan of Blue, Flake, and BC/CC systems, however, gelcoat has more orange peel that will set the flake at greater angles. My next flake job I will force the orange using binder instead of clear. Basically paint without pigment. Lay down 3-4 coats and get a real orangey surface, then clear and sand till smooth.
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oops, i see...
i voted
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Green is nice too!
But I'd try and stick to a factory CVX16 color if it were mine.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/Boat/IMG_4779_zpscdmtskqx.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/lincolnman1969/media/Boat/IMG_4779_zpscdmtskqx.jpg.html)
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Pick what appeals to you, and make it POP!
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q650/dweeres1/024_zpsr0q2n0nk.jpg) (http://s1352.photobucket.com/user/dweeres1/media/024_zpsr0q2n0nk.jpg.html)
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Pick the one YOU like best !
We all have our favorites ... mine are the Apricot /Orange that Dave & Shawn posted.
Like you said ... Can't go wrong with Red, every one likes it ...
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Thank you for your suggestions and the beautiful pictures of your's and other's boats. I have researched a bunch of original color combinations, and the CVX-16's never had a scheme that really appealed to me. But wow! I really love that Apricot and White, I've seen it in the catalogs but I never really considered that color. I will have to look into that!
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Gregg had posted this one up by Brainerd a week or so ago; beautiful. Could have been better pictures of the bow but it gives a look at what red is like.
http://brainerd.craigslist.org/boa/5589051783.html (http://brainerd.craigslist.org/boa/5589051783.html)
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That is a very pretty boat! Quick question about flake, if I were to do silver and white could I spray the clear and flake over the primer as I plan on using a white as a backing for the flake anyway, or is it necessary to have a normal basecoat?
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Here are the test samples I sprayed for my boat. I sprayed over Black, White, and orange. As you can see spraying over the same base color looks better. You could get away with spraying over gray primer if you were doing silver because it would be close in color, but it would take more flake to cover all the primer if you went with a different color.
Here is a link to the rebuild and painting of my CVX 18
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2962.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2962.0)
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If you like red the '83 CVX16 & 18 were offered in a red metal flake with a light gray gel. Very sharp. I prefer some color in the solid gel to compliment the metal flake regardless of color. Something to think about when you re-do your boat.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/blinddate/83cvx18-1.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/blinddate/media/83cvx18-1.jpg.html)
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Another choice.
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My vote is for blue flake.
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I have kind of disregarded the poll at this point as there are not a lot of votes, also because Metal Flake is going to cost me more than I anticipated. Also having this be the first time I've really painted using a gun I don't have enough experience or confidence to take that on. I will probably end up going with Bright Red and White (I don't know if anyone has seen the GT-150 restoration featured in Power & Motor Yachts but like that. Sorry if I ignored all the votes, I really enjoyed seeing all the colors and your boats. I may consider a metallic paint but again getting a consistent pattern could be difficult. It's funny the picture of the Laser Blue (Green) CVX-16 is the color and year of my boat except mine is absolute trash at the moment :P
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You can at all figure out a way to get the metalflake in there DO IT! You will not regret it and IMO it's what really sets the Carlson's apart. Somehow I missed this thread was a poll. I just submitted my vote.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1986%20CV23/file_zpsf416d179.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/lincolnman1969/media/1986%20CV23/file_zpsf416d179.jpg.html)
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If there is any way to do the metal flake i would do it.
Like Jason said it set the Glastron/Carlson in a class of there own.
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In my opinion ...
There are three things that set a G/C apart from other boats.
The swoosh.
The windshields.
The FLAKE !
Dave's red CVX16 looks AWESOME !
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Yeah that was my real reason for attempting the metal flake because it is one of their biggest features. I'd still probably stick with silver if I tried metal flake. If anyone has done anything similar it'd be very helpful getting estimates on price and tips on spraying flake (I'd like to use .025 or .015). Is it much harder than normal paint? Just wondering, is there a way to do gelcoat even with the extremely damaged existing surface?
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Do some reading ... ask some questions ...
Gil's thread ...
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2209 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2209)
Ratjets thread ...
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9523 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=9523)
Joes thread ...
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5263.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5263.0)
Shawns (Paint) thread ...
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2962.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2962.0)
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i will give my opinion here, i am no expert, i have only done this once.
but it did turn out vary nice.
i did lots of research, Gil's thread has some great info, i also spent hours on the phone with Old Red, and many other internet sources.
I am not a great painter, and figured Gel was more forgiving, but it is lots more work
you can details on what i did starting around page 8 of my rebuild thread from my 1900
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5263.140 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5263.140)
i used a 50 50 mix of .015 and .025 square cut red over a red base.
from the top edge down and the bottom is all new gel coat, i would estimate the materials for that part of the job cost me around $1500.
that includes the cost of a couple cheep spray guns and orbital sanders.
it also took most of the summer to get done
the finished product was worth it, and i have to reluctantly admit i would do it again.
that's my take, Shawn and Mike have both done amazing boats with flake in clear coat, and most professionals will tell ya that automotive finish is the "only way to go" including Old Red who has done lots of gel coat.
good luck
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I think I will stick with paint, metal flake seems tough to get solid instructions, I've read days worth of forums and threads and DIYs but it seems for 10 people you ask you'll get just as many answers. How much clear and flake do you need to do this job? And what is the spraying process, how many coats and recoat times? Also I was pointed in the direction of www.paintforcars.com (http://www.paintforcars.com) awhile back, seem almost too cheap is this stuff any good? My boat will be a "trailer queen" and will only be in for weekends at a time. Sorry for all the questions I am on the fence but flake really scares me being a newbie at spraying and can't afford to let $500 go down the drain.
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I'm looking into the dry flake gun method, seems like an efficient and less messy way of spraying flake.
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Hope Shawn will chime in on dry flake gun but what I remember is with the dry flake gun you use a lot more flake because roughly 50 percent lands on the floor.
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I think I will stick with paint, metal flake seems tough to get solid instructions, I've read days worth of forums and threads and DIYs but it seems for 10 people you ask you'll get just as many answers. How much clear and flake do you need to do this job? And what is the spraying process, how many coats and recoat times? Also I was pointed in the direction of www.paintforcars.com (http://www.paintforcars.com) awhile back, seem almost too cheap is this stuff any good? My boat will be a "trailer queen" and will only be in for weekends at a time. Sorry for all the questions I am on the fence but flake really scares me being a newbie at spraying and can't afford to let $500 go down the drain.
correct, nearly impossible to find 1 place with a solid set of instructions
there are 2 spots in my 1900 thread where i summarized, i will try to find them
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Thanks for all the help, and for encouraging me to try metal flake. Sorry about being all over the place, I found some threads on a quick mod for a bedliner/undercoating gun to shoot dry flake, much cheaper at about $16 then the off brand $80 or original $200 Flake Buster. I read that www.paintforcars.com (http://www.paintforcars.com) was not a high quality paint, but not having much money to spend, I've read some very good reviews on Kirker Paint. Eastwood apparently rebrands some of Kirker's paints as their own on some of their products so seems like a good deal. PPG is another more expensive consideration.
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I used 15 flake with a 1.8 fluid tip mixed in the clear. Used several new 3/8 nuts in the mix to keep the flake mixed. I may consider using gel but it's more labor intensive.
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Larson now has the 70's station wagon look.........The last one I had Red & White I called Bobber.......My bet is nobody can guess who made it?
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You have convinced me to try metal flake and I think the dry flake gun is going to be the best option for me. Still exploring my options on brands and color, does anyone know what size the metal flake was on the CVX?
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Just an FYI, I used the paint for cars products, they work well, at a fraction of the price. I would use them again.
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I don't think you will ever regret using flake ...
Paint vs. gel
I believe gel would be the best choose ...
But ...
Two of the coolest, drop dead, OMG that's beautiful flake job I have ever seen were painted !
Shawn's CVX18 & Kip's brothers Timmi ...
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last year, when i was trying to figure out what to used on my 1900 i went over to Davids and looked at the flake on his CVX with a printers lupe, the depth and random arrangement of the flake was just amazing. i did try to take pictures but they did not really show this. the flake appeared to be rectangular in shape and i would estimate the size was aprox .020 x .030
i was not able to find a product like this, but i may just have stopped looking too soon.
the .015 and .025 square flake i used was from http://vintagesledpaint.com/index.html (http://vintagesledpaint.com/index.html)
most flake you find is hex cut, i suspect because it lays flatter for use in clear coat.
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I used the flakebuster that my friend had when I did my CVX 18 and you end up with a lot of flake on the floor wasted. You would have to spray a small area with clear. Then grab the flake gun and spray the dry flake into the wet clear. I used the slowest reducer I could and it was still a PITA to do. On my CV23 I am doing now I am putting the Flake into a clear binder( midcoat) and then will spray clear on top. Flake is not hard to spray in my opinion. Biggest thing is do your best to not get runs. And criss-cross your pattern so you don't get stripes from spraying.
With the flake buster I used just over 1 LB of flake on the 18. Using the flake into the clear midcoat I used about the same amount for a 23ft boat. Either way you do it you can spray clear (without flake) over the flake clear or midcoat let it dry then wet sand the whole thing to remove the orange peel. Once orange peel is gone clean it up and respray a final 2 coats of clear and you will have a nice smooth no orange peel and minimal buffing.
I used spi Epoxy primer, Midcoat and SPI Clear http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/ (http://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/)
I liked their products and will used them again. I have not read anything bad about them online anywhere. A lot of the highend hot rod shops are using their products. The are a lot less money then PPG or Dupont or some of the others.
Here is the link to my 23 rebuild that I am still working on I explained what i was using a lot more in this thread.
Hope this helps and let me know if there is any other question I may be able to help you with.
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Here is a video I did for the person that bought my 18. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRjHcO4IMvA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRjHcO4IMvA)
I used Roth Flake. Agent Orange was the name of the color.
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Thank you so much for your help everyone and dealing with all my questions, also good to know about the flake buster! I will definitely look into the polyurethane, however as fas primer I heard epoxy doesnt mix well with the polyester of gelcoat as far adhesion, I'm guessing it wasn't a problem. I was planning on using vintagecarpaint.com/vintagesledpaint.com for the flake thank you for the sizing! I would use gelcoat but my surface is really really bad, and I don't feel like spending all the work gelcoat is to develop stress cracks in the same places. More questions sorry, how much clear does a job like this take? Does it take less with the flakebuster? If I sprayed .025" flake in the clear would a 2.5mm tip be sufficient?
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Well there is a benefit and a downside to it all. Normal BC/CC I shoot filling primers with either the 2.3 or 2.0 mm tips. Base with a 1.5, and clears with a 1.2. I used .015 flake with the 1.2mm tip and it clogs it up rather quickly. Moving up to the 1.5 gave a fair spray, but had some sputtering when the flake would bunch up. It has to be constantly agitated, which is why I used new 3/8" nuts in the cup. BTW, I used Devilbiss DCUPS systems if ya wanted to know. I borrowed a 1.8 tip and it lays it out, but you must adjust the mixture slightly which causes a fair amount of orange peel in the clear. Horrified at first, but the orange effect allows the flake to sit at various angles and really makes it pop. Looking back, I'd put more in the clear, but in the end, I only used about a 1 1/4 cups of flake. After the flake clear coats, 2-3, then I laid down 3 clear without flake, let dry, wet sand, then 2 more coats. Final sand at 1000, and buffed out. Learned a lot, will do it again, but with some adjustment. Next job, the Timi, will shoot flake in binder, then clear over. Flake guns make a mess, but its your call. Hope this helps.
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One thing to keep in mind with the spider cracks. You will need to repair them before repainting otherwise they will show up in the new paint. I would grind them down to the fiberglass and either re glass them otherwise I just used body filler to fix most of mine. Unless they were really bad then I would put a layer of glass or kitty hair filler in before the regular filler. Always keep in mind when Painting the top coat can only look as good as what is underneath. If is is wavy and has cracks on the bottom it will on top.
I would guess for a 16 ft boat you would probably need 1 1/2- 2 gallons of clear. Then depending on what company it is an how much you reduce it will give you 2- 3 gallons once activated or reduced. You will get away with less if you use a midcoat for the flake instead of clear.
Epoxy paint over gel is not a problem and is what was recommended to me by 3 different paint reps. I use a 1.8 tip for all my spraying. Base, midcoat and clear. Primer I bought a cheap 2.0 tip gun. The flake comes out of the 1.8 fine i thought, however I will prob go with a bigger tip when I spray the flake on other half of the boat. Seemed like it sputtered a bit.
I did about the same number of layers of clear as Mike. If you get the technique, the gun set up right, and with some practice you can get the clear to lay down like glass. It is very hard to get the clear with flake to lay down good. Like mike said spray flake with clear(or midcoat), then 2-3 coats of clear only let dry and then wet sand the whole boat smooth ( i use 800 grit) to get rid of all the orange peel. Then spray 2-3 more coats and it will give the flake depth and as I was saying you can lay it out and have very minimal buffing after that final clear coats.
I have used really cheap paint and had pretty good luck. However I have had a couple project turn out bad. The SPI company I mentioned is very well known in the high end hot rod community. There prices are pretty fair and I love their products. Use what you like just telling my experience.
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Bringing this post back from the dead here, but thought I'd mention the most recent developments in decision making. A lot of big changes and things I never thought I'd say. I've decided on making my boat overall as original as possible with it's original blue metalflake/blue scheme. At the moment I'm planning on using Stratosphere Blue .025 rectangular flake from vintagesledpaint.com with a very light powdery blue for the bottom. Also after looking over my boat getting it out from it's little winter canopy and removing more of an awful/premature paint job (done by me when I was 14) the gelcoat is not in as bad shape as I thought. There is some minor crazing in places, and there are some big spider webs but nothing a little grinding and fiberglass can't fix. So i've decided on using gelcoat (probably from US composites) as I have a lot more time than money, and you can't argue with an original finish. Also upon some reluctant further investigation my transom and stringers are rotted through, for awhile I was just too scared to check. The plywood floor is actually in very good shape. With this recent development, I'm probably going to make a restoration thread, as I'm going to need a lot of help through the process and don't want to spam everything with all my annoying questions. Thank you for all of your help and opinions I really appreciate it!