Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Plugcheck on November 27, 2017, 03:33:13 PM
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Weather was great this past holiday weekend, and I needed some exercise from Thanksgiving, so I decided to put some time in the Timi. Besides which, who cant get enough of looking at rotten transoms, floors, and stringers? The stringers were encapsulated, but I make some test drilling with a 3/8" bit and found nearly the entire length was soaking weight. Looks like water found its way in somehow, the staple holes to attach the floor might have something to do with it. Spent about 4 hours start to finish, having a Stihl TS400 certainly saved a lot of time. Cut up the pieces and put nearly all of it at the curb. The 55 gallon fuel tank was a real hack job, and it looks like the Port side took a torpedo at the water line. The previous patch is horrible. Just need to final clean and grind then determine if I go composite or back to original with wood. Cant find any composite suppliers here, and shipping is just too high to order 4x8 sheets. The flotation foam on each side of the engine is in fine shape, but the two pocket areas in the stern were soaked and had to be disposed of. Must have sat bow high for a long time.
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Atta boy!
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There's some progress! Good for you! The weather has certainly been cooperating nicely.
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I don't suffer the fiberglass "allergy" that some do, but I do get some minor irritation. I've put off the project till now as I wanted it to be cooler, say 35-45 degrees so that wearing coveralls, respirator, hat, gloves, etc is more comfortable. But the weather has been fantastic, so T-shirt, respirator, and jeans it is. Personally I prefer to do the tear down outside as it saves the shop from billowing clouds of dust, could try a dust collector like Joe did, but don't own one. Thought about making one either from a furnace fan or shop vac, but then that's time away from the actual work. The task actually took longer to clean up the torn out stuff than to actually perform the tear out.
BTW, I suspect the top of the Timi weighs maybe 250lbs minus the engine cover, which is maybe 20-25lbs? I used a four post lift, but the task could be easily handled by four people at the corners. The top is now resting on another boat trailer with a bunch of 2x4's screwed together to support the top in 6 places.
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Very cool indeed.
I am getting ready to pull the cap off my Timi also.....you beat me to it!!! Thanks for the picks, was it easy cutting the fiberglass at the transom?
Good to know it is not too heavy, I plan to hoist it and hang it from the roof of my tent garage.
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I used a sawzall at the transom while applying some lift. The glass work that was done at the transom end is usually just a single layer and not bonded very well. I suspect child labor laws we're broken to get a tiny person in there to place these prices.(just kidding). Depending upon former ownership, there will likely be about 5 gallons of rtv in a loose attempt at sealing against water intrusion. This is where a little lifting is helpful. In any case if the sawing becomes difficult, you may be cutting something you don't want to. Good luck to ya!
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Thanks for the encouragement !!!! I'll post some picks on the big day. Sure will be nice when I hit the point where reconstruction begins.
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Good to hear two Timi's are being saved !
First time I've seen a Timi transom ... looks cool with the exhaust cut outs ...
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I'll have to admit, I never knew a Timi's exhaust was split like that, until I owned one. Always figured the exhaust "trumpets" attached with hose directly to the manifolds. My intermediate peices at the transom were completely rusted out, I'll need to make new ones.
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So I got back into town and decided to do some final grinding before cleaning and putting in new stringers, transom, and floor. The transom had some remnants of wood stuck to it, so I thought I'd hit it with the large grinder. Took the wood off quickly, but revealed a considerable thickness of what appears to be body filler. Looks to be 3/8" thick. Body fillers really have no structural strength, and this application has cracks all over it. Question for the GC faithful, would you remove this and bond the transom wood to glass with peanut butter, epoxy, or some other type of adhesive. Or would you leave what's there in place? Have to admit it's a nice flat surface.
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When Kip and I did his we removed all the filler.
Used a rivet gun with a chisel bit, made quick work of the removal.
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I found that on the GT and the balharbor. On the GT I prob could have left it, on the balharbor it was chipping out. From the pix I would grind it out, but it is vary hard, unlike normal body filler
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My CV had it also, resin G/C used to bond/glue wood to hull ?
Also had it on deck where splash well attached to transom wood.
Jim ground out some or most of it on hull, how much I'm not sure ...
Seemed to squish out sides of where wood butted up against hull ( picture RPXO4 ).
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That sounds like the product I'm dealing with, seems to be harder and more sense than most fillers. Maybe an early version of seacast? Sounds like the consensus is to remove it. I have a couple of ideas, I'll post some pics tomorrow with what worked best. Odd, my CVZ had no such product, 79 vrs 85 the difference? Supposed to be 55 degrees, hoping to hotsy out the hull and prep for moving it to the repair cradle.
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Phoenix has that hard layer. I opted to repair it rather than remove it do to the hardness of the product used.
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I removed the same product from my intimidator.
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Have you decided to replace with wood, or composite?
I started my project and am using Plascore composite material on everything but the transom.
I'll start a new thread for my project, but here's a sneak peak at my progress from the weekend:
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Have you decided to replace with wood, or composite?
I have spent a great deal of time researching and collecting information to determine how to proceed with the Timi rebuild. I'd really like to go composite for weight reasons, but the hang up seems to always be how to get the stuff here in Omaha. Shipping of resins, glass, and other items seems to be easy, but buying a 4x8 sheet is just not cost effective. As the project progresses, it looks more likely to be a standard OEM type replacement effort with wood and ply. The other frustrating part is calling around the local area to plastics companies, describing the project, and getting this answer, "Well, I suppose you could use it for that" just doesn't get me excited to try something in a project where failure can be very costly. Last consideration is the 2x6 stringer versus plywood sandwich stringer. Part of me says the 2x6 route is a continuous single piece, the ply would be at least four pieces given the length. Then there is the voice in my head that says the boat was built the way it was to perform the way it did, so making it stiffer or more flexible could possibly have undesired results. And it worked well until water and rot set in, so there is that angle.
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I understand your dilemma regarding shipping. If you calculate the sizes of composite you need, Express Composites could cut it into nominal sizes for you to be able to easily ship UPS. Many from the club use them and Mark is ALWAYS willing to give the best customer service available. If that is your only hangup, I could get it and cut it and ship it to you.
My understanding on stringer (or any panel) core is that it is only to provide a basis for the glass mat and resin to set up, transom excluded. Wood is the easiest, most cost effective route, thus used often. And, rots easily. My Glastron project had gunnel panels cut out of OSB! Just because they used it in manufacturing, doesn't mean that I will rebuild it to their specs.
Plascore is more expensive and time consuming, but provides a better end result. Since I am an extremist, and Express is in my back yard, it seemed to be a good choice. Remember that aside from the usability, it offers attentional buoyancy, rot elimination and reduced weight benefits.
IMO
Allan
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I dont believe the plasticore would offer buoyancy would it? It is just a honey comb with a backing. I suppose you could trap a little air in it any thing laying flat would potentially fill with resin when laminated. The little bit I worked with it I really liked it. I thought it was much easier to work with then plywood, for the extra cost I would do my next boat with it. It would be a huge weight saver on a boat with a lot of wood like my 23.
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Early on, I used to have sections where the resin would seep into the hollow areas. If applied in a certain manner, each honeycomb chamber is sealed by the resin and cloth and remains an air void. I've been using it for several years now, and have developed a lay-up process that virtually eliminates any bleed-thru and retains buoyancy.
I'm planning to lay-up more pieces this weekend. I'll post a video in my HPV restoration thread to avoid hijacking this one.
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Boats that utilize foam or balsa for stringers are using the fiber glass laid up against them rely on the glass plies for strength. I would agree that in this application composite materials would be a suitable substitute. But when I cut out the stringers in this Timi, they have tabs and cloth cover. I just don't see that as structural. They basically relied on the 2x6 beam strength, and used glass to seal and captivate it. I could see a composite use on the floor, and yes, as a stringer, but only if I plan to lay up at least 3-4 layers on either side vrs a capture layer. Now when you consider the extra glass and resin required for composite stringers, I wonder if there is a weight savings. I'll admit, I'm not a pro boat builder, just a DIY guy restoring old classic boats, so I tend to error on the side of on design. Now the floor is a real possibility for composite, right now I'm considering it, or 3/8" play with cloth on both sides. Just curious, how do you composite guys anchor seat mounts and such?
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" Just curious, how do you composite guys anchor seat mounts and such? "
Diamond Chad's post ... "CVX 16 gets a new floor"
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5388.msg75070#msg75070 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5388.msg75070#msg75070)
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I like how this conversation is going. It shows that everyone has an opinion on how things should/could be done. And, there are pros and cons to to each way.
There has been wood in boats since the first one was built. Wood in a boat is not a bad thing. I have a sterndrive boat as well as my project Glastron. I would probably use wood on my engine stringers if I ever had to replace them. Mostly for the ease of the repair, but also for the internal strength that wood offers and bolt holding power for the motor mounts.
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I think details matter as much as materials.
All wood sealed, all holes sealed, over built, air bubbles removed from lay up, T-nut at bolt mounting locations, etc.
If done well, my CV would still be solid ... Lasted almost 40 years with exposed wood in stringers and under rear floor.
No right or wrong with materials used, just how it's done.
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The 1/4" aluminum plates top and bottom, sandwiching the Plascore risers, is holding up very well after 2 years, and some pretty rough rides. Boy's say they've had it airborne on Minnetonka. Once the floor is in, you will never get a wrench under there, the bottom plate was tapped and threaded the bolts up through it so they can' "fall back" into the hull.
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A bit cool outside tonight, so I decided to do a bit of work on the Timi. Tim and I modified the cradle to support the hull, since it is different from the CVZ. From what I found on the old interweb, it is a variable deadrise v hull? I did a bit of exploring with the remaining wood that supports the ladder and transon/trailer u bolts. Using a super high tech tool(screwdriver), I found even these pieces were rotten. I decided to follow Jeff's advice and remove the grey filler type substance from the transom. There is plenty of undulation in the glass transom, and I figured the existing material would hinder the rebuild rather than help it. It broke out easily with a hammer and chisel, really did not bond well to the hull glass. Wherever the filler was cracked, the glass underneath was blackened. Not sure how deep, but I do need to grind it back to solid resin and fabric before glassing in the new transom. Plan is to build one layer of 3/4" transom to span the entire width, then another 3/4" layer just the size of the transom. Hopefully I will have some room to add knees into the stringers.
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Transom pic. I'll let Mike do the 'splainin'
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All smiles !
Thing must be going well ...
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I shall call it "The Manta Ray Transom" The original had a 3/8" piece across the entire back, then two layers of 3/4" ply. I designed a single 3/4" sheet the full width, then another 3/4" layer for the transom. The cut outs for the exhaust and football are rough, we will trim and seal later once glassed into place. The other cutouts(triangles) are for glassing in the cap at the transom, weight savings, and because we thought they look neat. The area behind alongside the transom will be foam filled.
And yes, smiling because it is a heated shop in the midst of winter, working on a Carlson, some background music, and some cold frosty adult beverages. A long way from the days of lying on cardboard over the frozen ground, changing a starter on a vehicle, in -10 degree weather.
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Those are great reasons to smile, I can relate!
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Mike I think you will need to add the 3/8 plywood back in to get the proper thickness.
I believe you need a minimum of 21/4 inch thickness for the transom assembly.
Hopfully somebody will confirm this.
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In the three I have done, the thickness tolerance is not crucial, to a point...
On a sterndrive, the gimbal halves are fastened to each other thru the transom with threaded studs/bolts. There is enough thread remaining to account for a varying thickness transom. The shaft slips in and out of the coupler. There should be enough 'play' to account for a ⅜" difference in thickness without adjusting motor placement.
Outboard motors are similar with regard to hanging the motor. The problem, I found out too late, was the splashwell on Project X. It pushes up against the transom wood and shifts the positioning of the cap. I was ¼" off with cap placement and it affected one of the bulkheads up front. I needed to make a minor adjustment for that.
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Jeff, you are absolutely correct, the transom thickness must be between 2" and 2.25" thick at the keyhole, consistent, and parallel. Too thin and the drive coupler may bottom out, too thick and possibly not enough engagement. I suppose possibly some issues with hardware holding it all together possibly as well. This info from the Mercruiser manual. As for the current Timi transom design, there are four layers of glass being added, 2 biax, 1 mat, and one 6 oz cloth. With the ply and current glass transom, I'm at 1.75" thickness as measured when clamped, without any glass layers inserted. I'm actually hoping to end up closer to 2" overall, rather than 2.25". The final layer of cloth over everything before tabbing is added will happen after the lay up thickness is determined. If needed, and additional layer may be required to make up the desired thickness.
I appreciate you calling this out Jeff, good information for anyone working on a transom replacement. Thank you.
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When I did my 23 I had to add 4 layers of BSM mat (its a thicker stitched mat). That got me to the thickness I needed. If you look close you can see the layers of mat I added at the end. Make sure that the area between the new wood and the fiberglass transom are good and flat when I cut my exhaust holes I found some air pocket voids where the wood and the glass had a gap with nothing.
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In the three I have done, the thickness tolerance is not crucial, to a point...
On a sterndrive, the gimbal halves are fastened to each other thru the transom with threaded studs/bolts. There is enough thread remaining to account for a varying thickness transom. The shaft slips in and out of the coupler. There should be enough 'play' to account for a ⅜" difference in thickness without adjusting motor placement.
Outboard motors are similar with regard to hanging the motor. The problem, I found out too late, was the splashwell on Project X. It pushes up against the transom wood and shifts the positioning of the cap. I was ¼" off with cap placement and it affected one of the bulkheads up front. I needed to make a minor adjustment for that.
Edit for clarity:
I agree that the thickness needs to be within a range, per Merc spec. 1.75" might be a little thin, and when you add glass and compress the wood layers, will that give you the ¼" you desire to achieve a 2" nominal thickness? Adding another layer of wood, even ¼", might be a healthy choice, plus your glass.
The shaft splines are 3" overall and more than 2.75" are engaged in the coupler in most cases. With the tolerance of ⅛" to ⅜" difference in transom thickness, there is no chance of a failure due to inadequate spline engagement. Thicker is better than thinner for obvious reasons, plus it would not be desirable to 'bottom out' the shaft in the coupler.
Since the rear bell housing mount to the inside gimbal half is absolute and is what actually locates the engine position bow to stern on the inside, the transom thickness is only crucial to your desired build technique and how you want to bring it back to factory (Merc) spec. And, this is only if you are rebuilding stringers and not just the transom. Shifting the engine will result in front mounts not lining up correctly.
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my story on transoms FWIW
On our Balharbor i ground the resin plate off and used 2x 3/4 and it came out just under 2", i assembled that way and it did work but when i had the motor out to replace the flywheel i added a piece of 3/8" just to make sure it was correct.
as Shawn mentioned i also had a void on the lower part of the starboard side even though i felt i had it clamped properly with 2 layers of wet CSM. if/when i do another i will likely use a layer of cab to help make up for inconsistency's in the glass layer of the transom. (i assume that is why they had the resin plate in the first place)
the 1900 did not have the resin plate and the glass layer was much thicker and flatter than either the Balharbor or the GT.
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Tim and I were able to set and glass in the transom pieces. Two layers of 3/4", one layer matt, two layers biax. From a quick measurement it appears to be approximately 1.8" thick. When all the clamps come off I'll take a few more measurements, and will need to add some thickness. I believe some if this under thickness is accounted for by using 23/32" ply, so 1/16 off. The area of the hull, port side, that was damaged has been restored, and the ring that holds the rub rail on has been fabricated.
Stringers should be cut soon, but we are at a stopping point trying to determine the fuel tank that will be used. The one that came out was an aftermarket hack job 55 gallon tank up front. I also have a 62 gallon aluminum belly tank from the Baja that could be modified to work. The original floor had a 3/4" center stringer which would have to be modified, shortened, or eliminated if we use a belly tank. Some of the fuel weight would be shifted rearward using a belly tank over a front tank, but the weight would be carried lower, thereby lowering the center of gravity. The only real downside is the fuel level indications from a belly tank are poor since the tank is rarely level in the water, and possibly structural strength might be lessened with the lack of full height center stringer. The aluminum tank would need to be cut down, so overall capacity would be in the low 30's, which is probably better sized for this application. Poly tanks are available for around $350 which might save some time. Any opinions? go with a standard CVX type tank or convert the Timi to a belly tank?
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Tim and I were able to set and glass in the transom pieces. Two layers of 3/4", one layer matt, two layers biax. From a quick measurement it appears to be approximately 1.8" thick. When all the clamps come off I'll take a few more measurements, and will need to add some thickness. I believe some if this under thickness is accounted for by using 23/32" ply, so 1/16 off. The area of the hull, port side, that was damaged has been restored, and the ring that holds the rub rail on has been fabricated.
Stringers should be cut soon, but we are at a stopping point trying to determine the fuel tank that will be used. The one that came out was an aftermarket hack job 55 gallon tank up front. I also have a 62 gallon aluminum belly tank from the Baja that could be modified to work. The original floor had a 3/4" center stringer which would have to be modified, shortened, or eliminated if we use a belly tank. Some of the fuel weight would be shifted rearward using a belly tank over a front tank, but the weight would be carried lower, thereby lowering the center of gravity. The only real downside is the fuel level indications from a belly tank are poor since the tank is rarely level in the water, and possibly structural strength might be lessened with the lack of full height center stringer. The aluminum tank would need to be cut down, so overall capacity would be in the low 30's, which is probably better sized for this application. Poly tanks are available for around $350 which might save some time. Any opinions? go with a standard CVX type tank or convert the Timi to a belly tank?
The only thing I did different from factory (referencing the stringers and tank) in my intimidator was to turn the tank 90° to gain storage on either side if the tank. I guess two things different. The second being the box/cradle I built to house the tank that also supports the front deck. I just copied the one from my cvx18.
Now, you are asking for an opinion......someone not to long ago taught me not to give my opinion, so i usually don't.....
I'll give you my non-judgmental, nonbias opinion. I wouldn't modify the center stinger for a belly tank. I know the cvz's have them along with the cv23's. They were also built designed that way.
Are you putting the floatation back on either side if the engine? If you are not that cold be a place for twin tanks.
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Thanks for the reply Tim, I appreciate your opinion, advice, or criticism when it comes to boats. Having two Timi's in your family also builds a lot of credibility. Foam will be going back in the rear, plus I'm a bit scared to make the bow light/stern heavy with fuel tanks in rear. Not going with a belly tank would save some time. Still uncertain if I should buy new or reuse the 55 g tank.
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Somebody on your area has to have a tank out if a junk boat in the 25-30 gallon range.
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Would guess G/C did research and testing on placement, size, etc. of tank. Brochure list 27 gal. tank.
Steve said on CV16's the bow mounted fuel tank is off set to one side, to compensate for battery on driver side / stern.
On our 90 mile river run's, Jeff (CVX18 / 27 gal. / 350 Mercruiser) can make entire trip without refueling, not sure how much he has left though.
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Would guess G/C did research and testing on placement, size, etc. of tank. Brochure list 27 gal. tank.
Steve said on CV16's the bow mounted fuel tank is off set to one side, to compensate for battery on driver side / stern.
On our 90 mile river run's, Jeff (CVX18 / 27 gal. / 350 Mercruiser) can make entire trip without refueling, not sure how much he has left though.
I know a CV-23 with 460 and jet and 50 gallons. You are cutting it very close I figured I had a gallon or 2 left maybe!
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Tank is offset on cv16ss as well but battery is also on port side. Figured the offset was to offset drivers weight.
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I decided to finish the stringers, fit the floor, plan to foam, and run new fuel line under the floor. Not sure what tank I may use, the 55 gallon remains a possibility. I won't know until the top comes back in and I can see what room is available. Outside stringers are 2x6, inside is three layers of 19/32 play sandwiched together. Transom is now 2.100" thick. Tabbing is complete, except for transom to new floor. Floor peices are also 19/32, just received 1st coat of resin/acetone. I plan one layer of cloth on bottom of floor, then install it. Hoping to flip this weekend and work the bottom flat. Fitting all the wood peices really takes some time to massage everything into fitting well. Hoping the bottom goes quickly, and the top can start receiving attention.
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Nice looking/fitting stringers
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When I do the braces for the stringers I put a hole for water to get out, we all know what trapped water does.. or are you going to spray foam in it all to seal everywhere?
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Great job Mike . I need to stop by soon or you’ll be done !!! Must be some late nites !!!
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If you really want to try and keep water out put a coat of gel on everything. Glass and resin itself will absorb some moisture. If you cover it with gel it will make it waterproof. This is what I was told by Express Composites.
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If you really want to try and keep water out put a coat of gel on everything. Glass and resin itself will absorb some moisture. If you cover it with gel it will make it waterproof. This is what I was told by Express Composites.
Good information! I may have to do that on my CVZ stringers and transom before put the floor in.
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I'm still torn with the "seal it solid" or add drain channels. Since no belly tank, and I'm going to fully foam in, I'm swaying towards just sealing it all. Gelcoat has some porosity, which is how bottom blisters occur. At least that is my understanding of hull blisters from the ole interweb. I also considered undercoating, rhino liner, or lizard skin before foaming. It got me thinking, my brothers Ranger is two peices and solid foam compartments with no drain space. I plan to do a deck finish inside instead of carpet, just too hard to keep clean. Essentially all water that gets in on top will run to bilge. Bob, you're welcome anytime, just give me a ring.
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I'm still torn with the "seal it solid" or add drain channels. Since no belly tank, and I'm going to fully foam in, I'm swaying towards just sealing it all. Gelcoat has some porosity, which is how bottom blisters occur. At least that is my understanding of hull blisters from the ole interweb. I also considered undercoating, rhino liner, or lizard skin before foaming. It got me thinking, my brothers Ranger is two peices and solid foam compartments with no drain space. I plan to do a deck finish inside instead of carpet, just too hard to keep clean. Essentially all water that gets in on top will run to bilge. Bob, you're welcome anytime, just give me a ring.
Outside the stringers and under the front floor of my CVZ I fully foamed and did not add drains. I am running a belly tank, so I did include a drain there, but it will be sealed with a transom style drain and plug that will only come out if I determine water has found a way in or if I have a fuel leak.
Pretty much all of the stringer rot I have seen on boats seemed to start with water getting to the stringer through drain holes.
I arrived at this solution in a similar way as you did - pondering Boston Whalers with just fiberglass and foam, no cavities, no drains.
If water cannot get in then there is nothing to let out.
I am only using gelcoat in the engine compartment for looks and to help keep it clean.
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My two cents again.... I think you need to put some kind of drain in to let any water back out.. even when I cut apart the jet boat for project gt-jet which was completely foamed in, it was waterlogged... I do seal every piece of wood with sealer of some kind either jell or resin. If your going to foam it in you can lay a 1/2” pvc pipe in the bottom with holes in it to let it out. Put the holes on the bottom so the foam doesn’t fill it up.
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My previous idea was to saw a 1" PVC in half and make a channel with slots to let water out, but thought that would just provide a channel to let water in should the bilge fill up. Say heavy rain and auto bilge pump failed while in the water. Happened two years ago at TI. The new closed cell foam is supposed to not absorb any water unlike the open cell that was used on our boats back in the day. Now the idea of having a bilge plug on that cavity forward of the engine bilge is a neat idea. I can have it sealed, and open when I would like to check for water. Thanks for the ideas guys.
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I thought about putting in some sort of drain system in the 23 when I redid it. Thought about PVC or even blowing up the long skinny gallons then piping them once the foam set. I decided not to and filled the cavities full with foam. I filled them most of the way before putting the floor on so I could make sure to get them as close to 100% filled with no gaps or voids.
My thought is that many of these boats lasted 20-30 years some longer. Mine will always be covered when not in use and will be better taken care of then many of our boats were. The boats that were well cared for are still good and still on the original wood they were built with and they didn't have any drains. We have seen how things were installed and built.
In the last pic you can see all the X marks with tape. These are holding in the plugs I cut out with a hole saw. I would pour in one hole wait until I see it come out the next hole and then plug it quick so it would push past. Then I would use a wire to determine how far away from the next hole the foam stopped expanding. Then depending on distance I would cut another hole and fill in that one. It worked good and I am pretty sure my floor is pretty close to 100% filled. I used the same stuff Ole Red used. It is the secure set that they used for setting telephone, and fence posts. I did also use some foam from Express but most of it was secure set.
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Firstly I so respect people who have the ability to do this work themselves! My hat goes off to you. When I took my CVZ to a the shop that does a lot of repair work he showed my the new Four Winn’s boats that had foam in them stating he has been fixing rotten stringers as water still gets held in the new foam. This is why I took the path of composit stringers with no foam and good drainage. He also stated water tests afterward he really noticed no difference without the foam. Just Passing on this info.
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I had seen fireman24mn's method before and using it I filled the two areas outside of the stringers, and the area froward of the front bulkhead, with as much foam as possible before installing the floor.
Because the center remains open for the fuel tank, the flooring sections are smaller and more manageable on a CVZ. This allowed me to pour the final layer of foam and then quickly glue and screw the floor down. This way no holes/plugs were needed.
Chippy, the way you did it is great and likely superior to wood!
I would just say that factories building family pleasure boats, like G/C and Four Winns, spent zero effort keeping water out in the first place or sealing wood fully against water migration, and little to no effort properly locating the drains so that the compartments completely drain. That is why they rot regardless whether the foam is holding water or not.
I am extremely confident there will be no way for water to get to my stringers, transom or where I foamed, and my repairs will certainly outlive me.
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I have to admit, when I did my CVZ, the belly tank bottom is flat and creates a space(drain channel) below it, so in that case I did leave a drain channel. Now for the Timi, it is completely closed compartment bow to bulkhead at bilge. This is the main reason for considering a different build strategy for the Timi. I also think it will make it quieter and more secure since the foam adds a bit of structural rigidity to the project.
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No drains
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That had to be super difficult to mount the stringers upside down like that. Just kidding, looks very similar. My center stringer is a bit overkill, but I shaped it to fit the center piece into the void left in the keel runner. My CVZ did not have the same channel. It ends just before the bulkhead underneath. I assume to be more stable in turns?
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If totally sealed condensation might be absorbed by foam, after 50 years.
If drain holes are drilled water will get in and might be absorbed by foam after 50 years.
If all wood is sealed, bottom of floor wood, key hole for drive, speedo pilot tube, tow eyes, etc. it should last at least 50 years.
Think you'll last 50 years Mike ... LOL
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I feel lucky and privileged to have made it past the first 50 mark, so I'm kinda doubting another 50 to go is left in me.
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Guess I'm just saying ... Lasted 25 years done half azzed ... Should last 50 years if done right ...
Pro's and con's with any method used, so it's what ever idea sounds best to you.
Hope ya last another 50 years Mike ... I hate funerals !
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If there are no air cavities, and its sealed foam, there's no air to condense, so a permanently sealed & foam filled area shouldn't 'get wet'. I think the only issue is making sure that it stays sealed. No cracking, no separation, no way for water to get in. Our boats are low enough that wakes/waves can get in over the bow/stern/sides...and sometimes you get caught in the rain too.
So...if you're going to seal it up, the underside of the floor has to be sealed, essentially everything so water can't wick up via the wood into any sealed area. If you do a good job, no reason it shouldn't last for decades.
Option B is to keep it all open enough than you can open it up and leave it to dry out fully.
I think they're both valid options.
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I think even the small amount of condensation from small voids in foam, won't amount to enough to cause problems.
Just one of the con's I've heard stated about sealed floor.
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I suppose heavy abuse could crack the stringer or bulkhead allowing for a gap that water could find its way in, but even then it is foam filled and will require long term contact before much absorption could occur. As for any gaps, I plan to pour foam until nearly full, then use some of the softer "great stuff" type foam moments before gluing and screwing the floor pieces down. As for the floor pieces, I just finished putting a cloth/resin layer on the entire bottom of the floor. Once glued and screwed, I will sand, treat, peanut butter all gaps, then treat, add 24 oz woven roving to the floor to hull perimeter, then cloth/resin layer overall to make smooth and waterproof. Seems to be the front runner in my interior design to make a painted/ruff deck surface so its easier to clean and moisture runs off to the bilge.
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This sealed/not sealed cavities is turning into another plywood/marine plywood "discussion."
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No air space every screw dipped in 5200 and glassed over. It was a big decision for me weather to put the drain in or not
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This sealed/not sealed cavities is turning into another plywood/marine plywood "discussion."
Yep!
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The hull is mostly complete, sealed, tabbed, and covered. Time to flip and correct the bottom issues.
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Oh, just a thought, anyone notice what is missing?
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Motor mounts ??
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Motor mounts ??
That was my first thought too! Motor mounts!
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Cant get anything past you folks, you are correct, there are no motor mounts. The Timi mounts are considerably taller than in a CVX/CVZ application, I assume due to a higher X dimension? Maybe Tim or someone knows. Regardless of why, I decided to design and build a custom machined mount that will spread the load more evenly, and not occupy as much area on the sides of the engine. For now the bottom is essentially completed until I work the top and marry the two back together.
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The Timi mounts are considerably taller than in a CVX/CVZ application, I assume due to a higher X dimension?
Yes
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Nice thinking on the motor mounts. Honestly I really didn’t want to just lag bolt my engine mounts back in even though sealing them in and stuff will out last me. I really wanted to make an aluminum channel glued in or something along the whole rear part of the stringer. Over building these old boats with new technologies puts a smile on my face.
Very nice work so far thanks for sharing.
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Hull has been flipped, cleaned, degreased, and one side has the ablative coating(black) sanded off. Since the photo was taken, I've stripped it down to gel coat, and took measurements. The designed Hook is on the outside and measures out at nearly 1/2". Other than a moderate case of boat pox, scratches, and a couple previously poorly repaired spots, it appears to be fairly solid. I'm currently about halfway through grinding out the blisters. Once they are all opened, a nice hot water bath will remove any remaining residue from the blister. The ground out areas will then be filled with epoxy fairing. When complete and smooth, the bottom will receive 3-4 coats Interlux interprotect, followed by VC performance epoxy.
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Are you removing the hook or changing the X dimension?
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Yes, and much more than that.
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Yes, and much more than that.
Is it a secret or can you tell us?
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No big secrets, just haven't fully decided on an engine and drive combo just yet. Current plan is a fuel injected 468 ci BBC with bravo outdrive. Hook will be removed, hull bluprinted. Hydraulic trim tabs, hydraulic steering. Quite a few other mods, but none are really secret, just in flux as the project progresses.
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Progress has been slow from a combination of work schedule and finding more cracks and blisters. Hook has been removed, the cracks/blisters repaired, and overall straitening and sharpening continues. Now I find myself at a crossroads. Do a form a pad or simply blueprint the v hull at the keel. I've designed a pad that would be 9" x 12" tapering to 3" wide halfway up the keel. The flat part of the pad would be 1/4" taller than the current V. Any opinions or suggestions?
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I think I would leave the v. Those boats are pretty fast out of the gate and since you removed the hook should be even better.
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From my experience the 18 can and will wash out in a tight turn under power, the intimidator has yet to wash out under ridiculous amounts of power. What do you want this boat to do?
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Considered the lift of a pad at higher speeds, but the proper integration is not an easy task. My 18 requires a prop that provides stern lift to use the pad, but I'd rather keep a 3 blade on the Timi. It is not likely I will ever revisit hull mods once the bottom is complete. The amount of work to fix blisters, remove hook, straighten strakes, and repair damage has been quite time consuming. Overall, the work done on the bottom will have a big effect on the way this craft performs. I just don't see being able to do this when it's not upside down.
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My opinion the best way to get lift on a Carlson I/o is raw power. I found props that offer a lot of lift hinder rpms on top.
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After spending far to much time on fixing blisters, damage, and poor previous repairs, I decided to go with a blueprinting of the hull, minus the hooks and slight keel rocker. She is now smooth, straight, and sharp. Put down some primer, now just to block it out and prep for barrier coats and bottom finish. I certainly hope the time and effort spent on the hull will pay off when the time comes for testing. I really cannot imagine doing this on my back, but it could be done. 1st picture is before primer, the green is epoxy fairing compound.
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I think you made the right decision Mike ...
The Intimidator was there "High Performance" design, though hull exhaust and raised X dimension.
I would think if a pad would help, they would have done it ...
But there was rumors that it was faster then they wanted, so they put a hook in hull.
IMHO ... Keep it as original as reasonable possible.
Just my 2 cents ...
On Facebook there's a guy in SD, redoing a blue one, that turned green ...
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Few more ..
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Not many shops have a ficus that's for certain. Tags indicate a Nebraska Timi, and I happened to see someone towing one a few weeks back that looks identical. Indition design by racoons? I wonder where is SoDak it resides now, hopefully he could bring it out in August to TI? I've got most of a day ahead block sanding, might get a coat or two on before bedtime.
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He lives in Yankton, South Dakota.
Would guess that was about the time he picked it up.
Must have been same boat.
Ya ... Hope he brings it to T.I. !
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I hope he becomes active on the forum, Lewis and Clark lake would make a nice place for a Glastron get together. Of course the MN folks would be welcome to join us as well.
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So my arms about fell off from block sanding, but I got it smooth and straight. Final coat of interprotect 2000e went on Wednesday, so a quick sanding and four coats of VC performance epoxy. Of course every knat from half mile had to come check in what I was doing. Got a few imperfections, going to wait till morning, maybe wet sand the bugs out, and shoot a couple more wet coat. Kit make two gallons, and I've used half to lay on four coats. A decision in morning...
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That looks beautiful! Definitely a lot of hard work has gone into that hull
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So cooler weather has arrived, and time to stage projects for the winter. I set the Timi aside to let the epoxy fully cure and spend time with the CVZ. Some cleaning and wet sanding and the hull is ready to be flipped. I plan to lay 2x6's down and reverse engineer the cradle so it fits perfect. Once flipped, time to work the top and prep to mate the halves once again.
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Brought the top into the shop to repair the rub rail edge. Washed all the dirt and grime off, pulled all the items mounted to hull, then washed again. As is usually the case, this process uncovers other issues. My pictures aren't the best, but curious to know if anyone else has dealt with this issue. Someone ground a bevel into the rub rail mounting area that severely weakened the connection. Many of the holes broke out the bottom I assume from years of flexing. The overall width of this area also seems narrow compared to others I've done. Plan is to figure out how to lengthen and strengthen this area. Adding layers to reinforce the area shouldn't be bad, it's how do I set the first layer, really can't use a form? Any ideas anyone?
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I recall our GT being ground like that, I did not fix it and it gave me trouble later on. I would prob lay about a 1” strip on the outside freehand and then build in from there, kinda wasteful but should work. That’s how I built the hatch cover for the Bal Harbor
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I had a number of areas I had to fix on the 23. Just grind them out and start adding layers. Let them hang off and the just cut a straight line with saw or die grinder. Also if you do need some kind of backing material to hold a form or shape, use duct tape and aluminum tape (HVAC tape). Just make sure to add/ repair both sides.
You can see my precut pieces in the first pic to add to the chunk missing.
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I cut some cloth strips about 2" wide, and I'm planning to apply the first layer from the outside, Hopefully as it hardens I can make sure its straight, this would cut some time off the shaping and filling. I'm a bit skeptical of using any fillers on this outside edge as I feel the edge may distort a bit when adding all the screws. Fillers don't like to be flexed and screws/bolts have a tendency to dig in. I am planning to flip the top over since I need to incorporate a new pvc wire tube, and to add reinforcement to where the gunwales tie to the bow and stern glass areas. The top is pretty badly cracked in these areas. There is also a significant amount of foam. The bow has "logs" glassed in, but I'm thinking of pouring the gaps so I don't end up with the "stripes" of dew on the bow.
How did you flip the top Shawn? team effort?
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The top on my 23 was able to be carried by 4 people pretty easy. It would probably pull the foam logs and then you could just core the deck like my 23 is/ was. As far as filler I wouldn't worry too much. Look at the amount of areas that are in my 23 and I did not have any problems. Remember the filler is only filling the small imperfections and voids all the strength is in the glass. Just remember to make the fiberglass repair areas larger than just the immediate area.
Here is a video of me laminating the coring. I used balsa but you could use plastic core as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH3COUN_wpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH3COUN_wpg)
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Great job Shawn. I can see why a 23 would need the support up front with the hatch and cubby. Did it have flotation logs before?
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Great job Shawn. I can see why a 23 would need the support up front with the hatch and cubby. Did it have flotation logs before?
No it had a foam coring before same thickness and size as the balsa. I was told the balsa was a little stronger then the foam.
I will do the new 16 project with plastic core under the deck.
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Early CV16's were like that, not wood strip around hull, then riveted and glassed (deck to hull).
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I have the same issue on my 23, it would have been done by the factory, not sure if it was to make it fit better? Easier to line up? In spots they went through the fiberglass in down to the gel coat, so of course the screws all ripped out same as yours. I am planning on just adding a strip of CSM on the inside just to give it more thickness for the screws to hold to. The rub rail will cover all of the old ripped holes so is it worth filling the holes just to re drill them?
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I've made a fair amount of progress, but haven't been very good at documentation. I rebuilt the edge starting with cloth on the outside, then building up. Sanding and more layers got it to this point. I'll try to take more pics and document better as I go.
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The wood in the dash and sides was blackened and dry rotted, so I pulled that out. Made new sides that are full height and will tie in the front and back to eliminate the flex cracking that has happened. The original side are about 3.5", these are 6.5" also note the new play material near the vent, this will support the new pop up cleats, and better support to the hand rail.
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The back lit photo of the rail didn't come out like I thought, here is another from the stern.
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looks like you are doing a fine job! It'll be much stronger than it was.
Do you plan on gluing or fiberglassing the 2 halves together?
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Not certain how it is done on the 23's, but on my CVZ and Intimidator, only the transom area is fiberglassed together. At the rub rail, I used an EPDM seal on the CVZ, but I'm leaning towards using 3m 5200 for the split on the Timi.
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My CV16 had a one foot long tab glassed just in front of dash.
Nice work Mike !
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The dash in my Timi has been hacked for a bunch of stuff, stereo, CB, remote spotlight, etc. Generally I'd put on some duct tape or masking tape and fill the holes, but I thought I'd try something different. I had some melamine laying around from a kitchen rebuild project. For those unfamiliar with the product, it is basically plastic coated MDF, used for kitchen cabinets and such. I cut a couple pieces of half inch thick melamine to cover the light control and stereo holes. Unfortunately, there is a slight bow to the dash, so a single piece would not work, or rather, it wouldn't fit as tight. I used the pieces to hold some 1708 Biax over the hole, marked it, then cut it out with scissors. So I waxed the side of the melamine pieices towards the hole with regular car wax, then clamped in place. Applied resin and two layers of 1708 in the holes. Once dry, removed the melamine(they just about fall off), a quick sanding on both sides, and the backside is ready for another layer to tie it all together. The dash is really smooth, will require very little filler if any to make it like new.
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Rebuilding the rail was time consuming, but I think it will be worth it in the end. Attached is probably one of the better photos showing how much was added. It all started with a single layer on the outside. Believe me, it was not smooth, really came out wrinkled, since no form could be used. some narrow pieces were added to that layer inside until I built up the original thickness taken out by the angle ground into the top. A single 1708 layer inside, two on the outside. A final sanding to make both sides smooth, then a final coat of resin to seal up any loose fibers caused by sanding. The will be some more blending, possibly filler, on the outside, but that will occur when I flip back over and prep to mate back to hull.
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Not certain the process they followed when they made my Timi, but I think some confusion occurred where they placed plywood reinforcements on the underside of the top. There were these blocks on both sides that should have been for cleats, but they actually placed them farther back. I tore these small pieces out an added larger pieces to reinforce the weak area, but when I removed them, I found an odd material they used in the fiberglass. What it looks like is the absorbent material business and shops used to soak up oil spills and such(Sorbent Pads). Appears to be maybe .060" thick, biscuit colored, and has perforated holes in a regular pattern. Seems to be quite hard, soaked through with resin, I've just not seen this before. Anyone know what it is? It really would not surprise me if it is Sorbent mat, seems like I found a lot of shortcuts in the process of rebuilding this craft.
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Tonight was dash reinforcement night, cut and shaped a block at the steering wheel area, then designed at cut a single peice that goes all the way across. The original was three pieces. Has a curve in two dimensions. A little peanut butter to bond the dash and fill the gaps. Tommorow I'll tie in the sides to make it all solid.
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Work continues in the bow area. Sanding and layers of 1708 and woven roving finalized the dash area. I cut the existing bow foam to expose the windshield mounting holes. Most of the holes across the dash went into the foam areas. I decided to add a 3.4" ply layer and fill all the windshield holes since the holes were egged out and the gel cracked around these openings. Not certain if I plan to use self tapping screws or machine screws with nylocks for the windshield, but either way the extra wood backing will accommodate either. The existing bow foam was covered in a layer of glass cloth, but there existed a sizeable air gap on both sides of the foam "Logs". Wasn't sure how to get pout foam into these areas, so I came up with the idea of susing spray foam and plastic tubing. I cut the tubing to length, then used a heat gun to soften it to straighten it out. pulled it straight, then dipped it int he snow, now I have a nice straight piece of fairly rigid tubing. Hooked the can up, inserted the straw, and filled the spaces. Was neat, you could see the cavity filling. I just pulled the tube out as I went and it worked great. Mixed up some pour foam and filled the in-betweens. A little trimming and the bow area should be done.
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The sides of the timi also received a bit of work. New wood was added, glassed in with woven roving and 1708 at the corners. I clamped some PVC tubes, 2" on the starboard side, and 1 1/2" on the port side. A few glass strips help those in place, then pour foam over to make it all solid. Probably will need to trim a bit to add the upholstery sides and possibly some interior lights.
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The tubes for the wires were a nice touch. That foam should really stiffen it up as well.
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Thanks Jason, the OEM design did have a 2" thin wall PVC tube, but it only went back to the back seat area, about 6-8" short. That on the Starboard side, the Port side had 2 big cardboard loops. Ugly wiring is a pet peeve of mine regardless of car, boat, house, whatever.
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I decided to tear out the supports alongside the engine bay, they were marginal, and there really isn't a better time to do them. Out of all the wood in the top, only the peice across the back seat was solid enough to keep. A comination of pour foam and a small froth pack covered the bow, sides, and stern area. I could use another system 15 spray Pak to fill the stern area a bit better, maybe in the morning. Tomorrow the top will get flipped, and mated back to hull. At least the boat will be back together, right now it's occupying both bays in the shop. On a side note, Husker girls volleyball will be in Minneapolis for the final four in volleyball. Go husker girls!
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Getting the top to fit back on has proven to be a challenge, much worse than it was on the CVZ project. It took several days of trimming, aligning, and re glassing some areas. The pictures show the come-alongs and straps used to pull it back into alignment. I'm thinking about using 10-24 stainless screws with washers and nylocks to hold the edge together, instead of the self tapping wood screws. Seems like I read somewhere that makes for a longer lasting tight joint. For now the top and bottom are together, I need to do a bit more fitting to secure the halves together before I start doing the body work on top. I had planned to use 3M 5200 sealant, but I found plan marine to have great reviews and quite a bit less expensive. We got the rub rail out, but it will need a lot of attention before it can be reused.
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On the CV23 where the bow flexes near the windshield the rub rail kept coming off and the top have of the boat would come loose from the bottom half. It just had screws going into the wood. They were stripped out so I replaced with screws and nyloks and have not had a problem since.
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Why was it so hard to get the top deck on? To me it seems like you are just pre loading the hull to cause stress cracks in the future. When I put the 23 hull back together I did not have much trouble at all. I did not use any straps, come alongs, etc. I would guess when you glassed in the new supports in the different areas, the top deck or the hull was not supported correctly, therefore deforming the hull shape and causing the fitment issues.
Just my thoughts, but it should essentially go back together just like a shoe box lid. It should be tight and take a little work but having to use mechanical means/ force to pull, push, twist sounds like it could cause issues later on.
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Well, a shoebox fit it is not, but I attribute most of that from being separated for so long, 2+ years. I took measurements of the width at 6" intervals and the lengths overall so I had a reference when it came time to replace the stringers, floor, transom, and top reinforcements. I kept these dimensions, but in the end the bottom relaxed about 3/4" bow to stern. Or maybe the top shrank 3/8" and the bottom flattened 3/8"? Most of the fitting work came from having to redo the entire edge, the front nose area on the top was more rounded, the bottom more triangular. As the trouble areas were dealt with, the fit became easier. I plan to seal and install the first layer of screws all the way around, let it sit for awhile, then tackle the body work. There is so much cracking in the top, some areas will need to go all the way down to the fiberglass to determine if even more glass work is required. Is there a way to insure the new finish wont crack? I doubt it considering I do plan to use the boat, the beauty of automotive finishes is the ability to repair it. The CVZ has been re sprayed in areas four times from dock rash, the subwoofer cabinet broke at a corner from flying on the St Croix. I do appreciate the concern Shawn, but at this point, I need to work it through the issues. All projects have their setbacks
Now maybe if I knew someone in the automotive industry that could mount the entire boat to a jig and shake the s*** out of it to help relax the fit?.................
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I bet it was a tight fit from the factory and is maybe the reason for the tapered grinding on the rail. Not that it was the correct fix but saved them from scrapping a mold.
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You know, that is plausible explanation of why they ground a bevel all around. Made the joint fragile, but it got it out the door. The CVZ is a 79, this Timi is an 85, there are a number of areas that were done on the Timi that indicate some shortcuts were taken. Thank you for that observation.
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Definitely sounds like a logical reason why they tapered that edge.
I don't have any experience with older Glastrons but I can for sure see a lot of shortcuts and poor workmanship in my '89.
But that happens when production can't keep up to sales!
I like the idea of using bolts/washers/nuts to hold the seam back together!
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I have not had any new cracking on my 23. All areas that had spider cracking that I found when I started restoring were noted. I then tried to determine what would have caused it. Most if not all the cracking I had was caused by hard points or lack of structure/ support. All the spider cracking was ground out and filled. Depending on the areas and how deep the cracking was, would determine if I would re-glass or just fill it with filler.
The problem area I had was also the bow as well. Bottom or top seamed to have shrunk/ lengthened as well. I am pretty sure mine was in the top half. Think of the deflection. It the tip of the bow is pushed up or down an inch or less it will lengthen or shorten the total overall hull. Before I first removed the top half on mine I measured and marked the hull as well so I would have the correct spots. I also cut 2x2's and fit them in before the hull was split. Once split I did all removal and grinding. Then once it was time to rebuild bottom of hull I installed the 2x2's to help hold the shape. I did fit the top again before I did major work to it. Then took more measurements so I could flip it and recore the deck.
As far as trying to prevent future cracking. I would relief cut any areas that are currently stressed and reglass. Make sure you don't have hard points and ensure there is good reinforcements/ structure where needed. Example of a hard point would be on almost every CV-23 there is a stress crack on the passenger side just below the windshield. There is not enough structure/ support and it flexes/ pushes on the same spot over and over. Another spot is on the lower hull where the cuddy floor and the main floor meet, they crack there because of lack of structure.
Also are you putting the Gen 1 drive back in it or going to Gen 2? I have the factory Mercruiser bracket for doing the cut out. And manual for setting up a blank hull.
Good luck with everything
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Some closer observation reveals that I'm increasing the contact area at the rub rail slightly as well. Both sides taper slightly, the further you mate them, the more difficult is is. This is most notable on the bow and stern. Really only one area on the starboard stern had to be cut out to relieve the stress. Current level of cracking? Everything was so rotten when I started that I'm surprised it didn't buckle in half. Attached are some examples. As for drive, I have a template, raised 1", Bravo 1 drive. Same pattern as Alpha, just two more bolt holes to drill.
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Whoops, forgot the pictures.
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Don't most of the Intimidators have stress cracks in the same spot as the first Pic. I am pretty sure Tims does. I think his was pretty rotten as well though.
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Think your right Shawn.
Tim added more support on his.
Every one I've seen has cracks to the side of rear seat.
Except (Maybe) Tim's Dad's Timmi.
Jason's idea sounds good.
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I don’t have any pictures, but yes, my timi is cracked in the same spot by the rear seat.
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Both of ours have the cracks.
I added two supports (3/4" X 4" plywood) that are tabbed to the floor just ahead of the motor and are bolted to the part of the deck that goes behind the rear seat. I can find pictures if needed. I think the deck near the motor on the intimidators flexes a lot under normal driving conditions and that flexing is focused at that point. Before I rebuilt mine while it was on the trailer you could push up really hard on the side of the boat just under the rub rail where the rail curves to meet the bow (maybe two to three feet ahead of where the tie off cleats would be) and the cracks at the back seat would open up considerably.
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I would consider coring that area and adding the extra reinforcement. If its a known problem area then I would add more strength to hopefully solve the problem. Look at Tims and terry's and your Mike and figure out where they crack & flex then add more support to them. No better time then now. A boat shouldn't stress crack from using it unless you are really beating the holy crap out of it.
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I believe that Terry's, Tim's, and my Timi suffered from the same condition, rotten wood support structure. I've added to areas that I already replaced wood to hopefully stem off and prevent future cracking. Like to hear from any other Timi owners that have had cracks develop after a restoration project. As for cracks that could develop from "beating the crap out of it" it can, and probably will occur over time since what fun would there be in driving it mildly around?
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Found some coral Timmi pictures while looking for CV23HT pictures.
Believe the only one I have ever seen, COOL color !
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:)
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Beautiful photos, thanks for sharing. I assume that is what my Timi looked like in it's heyday. My current plan is a similiar paint scheme, but was thinking of the swoosh not having that transistion in the middle, and no separation line(3/4" blue). I was thinking about following the hull line with the bottom swoosh to the bow, like the older Glastrons. Still a long way off for paint.
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I talked to the dude that owned that boat a few years ago. He said he sold it to someone in Austrailia. It now lives in a museum.
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Happy St. Patrick's day. Just an update on the Time project. Bodywork has gone slowly as majority of time has been spent on the power train this winter. I can't stress how important it is to start a project that has all of it's parts, functional or not. I purchased a complete out drive with transom assembly, and the engine, boat, and trailer came with it. Some of the items it didn't come with, oil pan, water pump, pulleys, pan bolts, timing cover, balancer, flywheel, coupler, bell housing, starter, fuel pump, carb, etc. In addition the sea pump required rebuilt. All new hoses and belts. Intake, exhaust, ignition, in the end I basically started with a block, crank, and heads. It did come with an alternator, but it was locked up. I bought a pretty new one, but I was assured the thin cad plating would rust nearly instantly in service, I decided to paint it to keep it looking nice. It's never going to be cleaner than right now, so that helped the decision. Rust-Oleum makes a high temp silver than looks very close to bare aluminum. The other is gloss black engine enamal. Alternators can get quite warm in service, so a high temp paint is advised. Hardest part is masking the SS screen.
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Though you might have painted green just to remind you the day it was painted.
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I like how the alternator paint job came out. Might have to repaint mine.
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Looks great, I've used those paints before on snowmobile parts and they work quite well.
I'm sure it's quite time consuming trying to find all missing parts for the engine!
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Update has been long overdue, but when it's nice outside, then it's time to go boating, and suspend working on them. The engine is near ready, exhaust being one major component missing. The cast iron BBC wet exhaust is very heavy, so I'm looking for options. Will wait till engine is in too figure the exhaust out. Had some time off for the holidays, but had a bad head cold for most of it. Body work and head colds just don't mix. Was able to get the body a bit closer to what it needs to be, there was so much spider cracking, so progress has been slow. Plan is to be in primer by end of January. Now that the holidays have passed, there should be some consistent progress. Paint in spring. Happy New year everyone!
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Resized pic
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Mike what filler did you use to fill the spider cracking.
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The engine is near ready, exhaust being one major component missing. The cast iron BBC wet exhaust is very heavy, so I'm looking for options. Will wait till engine is in too figure the exhaust out.
Of course it’s always a question of $. I run stainless steel exhaust on my SBC. The company is called HiTek. They used to be “proudly made in Australia” now they are made in China. Mine are still the old ones that were made down-under so I don’t really know how the quality evolved. You guys across the pond should have plenty of options though.
Mike what filler did you use to fill the spider cracking.
I sanded mine down to the bare fiberglas and added a few new layers. Didn’t help. Especially in the back corners of the rear bench it started cracking again.
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The cracking in the gelcoat layer varied from small spider cracks to delamination with fiberglas layers including some areas that had to be completely rebuilt. Some of the cracking was restored by sanding, most of the other areas had to be ground out with a carbide, mostly at corners, and were filled with epoxy fairing compound. That is the green stuff you see in the picture. The corners of the "cab" were really bad and required a great deal of work. New wood reinforcements, biax and cloth, finish smooth with fairing. If you look closely, the small indent line on both sides in the rear are gone, they had long cracks down the middle, and there just isn't a way to fix that. I hope that the cracking is contained and won't return, but I doubt it. I'll finish and enjoy the craft and create memories. I'll post more pics using my camera instead of phone, I can't seem to post pics from this phone.
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Oh I forgot to mention exhaust. I'm actually considering building a set of dry joint headers that will have the elbow turn forward near the rear seat. I found a set of rewarder headers that could be modified to fit. I think the trumpets are 2.5" ID, possible to cast a set and machine a set to 3" or 3.25", but unsure that is worth the work. Overall the timi will keep the same lines but have some customization.
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I have a set of aluminum manifolds like you would see on a jet boat with snails, manifolds are cracked but repairable, I picked them up for the snails but I’m not sure I could use them they’re bigger than the manifolds for my small block Ford.
Let me know if you’re interested I could dig them out and send some pictures.
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Thanks Joe, I might consider logs, but unsure if room exists to make them fit. On the Jets, the engine sits farther forward I think than on the stern drives. I'm betting the logs you have are for a SBC application? Closest Glastron application to a GM big block I thought was the olds 455. Just research at this point, I need to install the engine to see what I have for room to work with.
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They are BBC, I’ll post a pic sometime
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Do you remember what they came off? Glastron application?
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Progress has been non existent since boating season and Covid got rolling in March/April timeframe. I am just trying up some loose ends now and organizing for making real progress this winter. Exhaust manifolds required different valve covers and accessory mounts for power steering and alternator were modified as well. Completed engine cradle and put the engine in to work on exhaust and body modifications to make it all fit. Will make new risers, hoping to move wet joint closer to transom, and allow for O2 sensors should I migrate towards FI.