Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: fireman24mn on December 12, 2017, 10:14:08 AM
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As most of you know I need to rebuild my outdrive on the 23. I am wondering if any one has researched gear sets, shafts, seals, etc. Looking for some advise for rebuilding my drive to handle the higher HP better. If you have part numbers or things you have heard to do.
In searching the internet I dont find a lot other than stock merchandise gear sets.
Do you think it would be beneficial to have a gear set heat treated? Generally it seems that the upper gear set is the most common failure.
Thoughts? Suggestions?
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Has Tim got any feed back from guy on Facebook that was talking about Alpha mods ?
Eight years behind a big block sound like it's to good to be true ...
Facebook post ...
" heat treated 1.32 upper gears, offshore shore carrier, and one or 2 other goodies.. the water pump in drive is just for my drive shower... the drive was put together by one of the best who has shown me a lot but I leave the hard stuff in the drive to him.., fully restored overbuilt for bb, "
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I need to rebuild the outdrive on "Toni's Toy" also, so far my research has led me to Roberts Marine. The tech there is rebuilding them with a non-stock gear set and I have yet to talk to him but Jim over at Imperial Boat Repair in Hudson says that's all he uses now.
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I need to rebuild the outdrive on "Toni's Toy" also, so far my research has led me to Roberts Marine. The tech there is rebuilding them with a non-stock gear set and I have yet to talk to him but Jim over at Imperial Boat Repair in Hudson says that's all he uses now.
Do you know what aftermarket gear set he uses? I have read both ways on what to use. Some swear by the stock Merc with regular maintenance and synthetic oil. Others aftermarket gears, but still synthetic oil.
I have a drive shower although I may try to come up with some sort of cover/ hood to bolt on with a scotchbrite pad or something to hold the water a few secs longer to hopefully transfer more heat away. I talked to Old Red about it he was working on building one but never got it done.
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Shawn have you ever checked your drive shower when in full speed?
I noticed that your boat runs pretty dry. When I had the Gen 2 Alpha on the Intimidator I once put a GoPro on the back to the see what happens.
When trimmed the shower was not doin anything as it was too high up to touch the water. So when it was actually supposed to cool it down it did nothing.
I still have to figure out what to do with the Bravo. It really doesn't need a shower but I'd still like to build one without drilling holes. I had the Simrek Summit drive shower before but as I said it doesn't work on my setup.
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I never have but my plan is to do the same thing and mount the go pro to see if it is getting water or not.
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Any one know where I can buy a nose cone for a Alpha. All I can find is bravo cones.
Thinking I may end up making one with some aluminum and aluminum filler.
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Couple of thoughts: drive shower helps, but only if the pickups are below the cavitation plate. 1.32 was the alpha set for big block use, stronger essentially by ratio(teeth count), might want to consider a cryo process to improve gear life. Lastly, nose cone use is negligible at speeds under 80, which is why you can't find one for an alpha. I'm not against making a drive more hydrodynamic, but you really have to make it perfect or it will do more harm than good. Been some writing related to turbulence at water intakes. Decent water flow is important which has me wondering why someone would use the impellor only for the drive shower? I suspect a bravo seawater pump is used? Many bravo nose cones move the water pick up as well for higher X dims. Just my $0.02
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Didn't Ol Red make his ?
Think there was a post on it ...
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Contact them: https://bobsmachine.com/contact-us/
I'm pretty sure one of their nose cones fits the Alpha.
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Went over to Joe's last night and pulled my drives apart. They didn't look too bad, other than the top half that the gears let go in. Bottom half wasn't full of metal. Plan is to clean everything good new gears and bearings in the top half. New seals for top and bottom then reassemble. Also had to buy one more tool to get the gen 2 lower case apart so once that shows up we can see if we need any part in the lowers besides seals.
The drive Jeff bought on CL the upper looks good so new seals. However the lower had been apart and is missing a few pieces. Plan on ordering them up so I will have a back up drive on hand.
I was talking to a couple people and there is a synthetic lube some people use it sounds as though it is very thin in viscosity. Heard of a few people running it with higher HP set ups. Any one have a name brand or ideas?
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I like using the Merc hi performance lube, but Amsoil, and royal purple both carry outstanding synthetics that I've had great luck in automotive/industrial applications. Might check if they have a marine specific. Has anyone tried to add an external resovoir to insure an alpha is full? Bravo drive do so, but they have a unique transom plate with a pass thru. Did the upper gear split, or did teeth come off? I ask since cryo hardening might make them more prone to splitting.
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Went over to Joe's last night and pulled my drives apart. They didn't look too bad, other than the top half that the gears let go in. Bottom half wasn't full of metal. Plan is to clean everything good new gears and bearings in the top half. New seals for top and bottom then reassemble. Also had to buy one more tool to get the gen 2 lower case apart so once that shows up we can see if we need any part in the lowers besides seals.
The drive Jeff bought on CL the upper looks good so new seals. However the lower had been apart and is missing a few pieces. Plan on ordering them up so I will have a back up drive on hand.
I was talking to a couple people and there is a synthetic lube some people use it sounds as though it is very thin in viscosity. Heard of a few people running it with higher HP set ups. Any one have a name brand or ideas?
Did you loose a seal in your drive?
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
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No all the seals looked good. No milky oil just shiny metallic oil in the top case of one.
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I like using the Merc hi performance lube, but Amsoil, and royal purple both carry outstanding synthetics that I've had great luck in automotive/industrial applications. Might check if they have a marine specific. Has anyone tried to add an external resovoir to insure an alpha is full? Bravo drive do so, but they have a unique transom plate with a pass thru. Did the upper gear split, or did teeth come off? I ask since cryo hardening might make them more prone to splitting.
1 tooth came off the gear then got ground up a bit.
I have a gen 2 so mine has the reservoir inside to keep it full.
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I was talking to a couple people and there is a synthetic lube some people use it sounds as though it is very thin in viscosity. Heard of a few people running it with higher HP set ups. Any one have a name brand or ideas?
Look up Alisyn. 0 viscosity.
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Looks like pretty good stuff. I will be ordering that to put in instead of the mere stuff. And its pretty much the same price. Or cheaper if you buy a gallon the way it look on their web site.
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Correct me if I'm wrong Shawn, but the Alisyn 0w I found on the net appears to be engine oil, not a gear lubricant. Granted it's not a hypoid set like a rear end, but is it a risk to use a lubricant not rated for gear service?
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This stuff is for gears. They have a lot of products even 2 cycle oil. There is an article about the gear oil on Scream and fly but the link to the data dont work.
http://syntheticlubricants.aerospacelubricants.com/viewitems/market-marine/progear-21 (http://syntheticlubricants.aerospacelubricants.com/viewitems/market-marine/progear-21)
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Here is a link to the Alisyn ProGear review on Scream and Fly:
http://www.screamandfly.com/content.php?51-Product-Evaluation-Alisyn-ProGear-21-Type-1 (http://www.screamandfly.com/content.php?51-Product-Evaluation-Alisyn-ProGear-21-Type-1)
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Here is the link to the long term Alisyn test:
http://www.screamandfly.com/content.php?30-Product-Evaluation-Alisyn-Lubricants-Long-Term-Test (http://www.screamandfly.com/content.php?30-Product-Evaluation-Alisyn-Lubricants-Long-Term-Test)
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That pretty much makes up my decision for me.
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great read, and great information!
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I talked to a guy at aerospace lubricants today and got some oil ordered. He recommended their 80w oil and not the zero weight. Mainly because its a everyday pleasure boat and not racing application. I ordered a gallon and will have to try it out and see how I like it this year.
Bring on Spring!
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so maybe i can be of some help. i have been a certified mercruiser tech for over 25+years and can tell you this. mercury marine is making it more and more difficult to make rebuilding things affordable. i had a customer last year ask me to repair his shifting issues from past mechanics improperly adjusting his shift cables and causing the clutch dog to wear down the pawls on the gear sets which would cause the shifting to jump out of gear at low speed. i priced out just the foward gear and pinion set for his gen II's this does not include reverse gear because that is how merc sells them and it was $900 by the time i was done putting together a parts list together for just replacing the shift parts and gear sets i was way over $1700. this was not replacing any bearings, shafts or touching the upper or labor to complete the job and i couldnt warranty like mercury could. so i priced out brand new drives and found it to be more cost effective and gave my customer a one year warranty which i think he could extend i forget now. new drive was around $2400 from what i remember. mercury seems to want us to stop being mechanics and be parts changers instead. as far as high performance use not the greatest drive for that. yes i have seen them behind big blocks back in the '80's used on boats that where small and light and they would hold up ok but i also seen the same package used on single engine 268 sea ray and they would grenade due to the larger prop and boat loads being applied. granted these where alpha one/mr drives and most of the times the vertical driveshaft was the weak link and would snap right where the oring groove is at the top of that shaft. things changed when the bravo drive came out in late '89-'90's hope i was of some help. as far as heat/cryo treating gears i here from the performance guys they tried both and they still break gears. keep in mind all alpha type drives use helical cut gears which are weaker than straight cut like used in all bravo lower gears and only and used in the upper bravo xr drives