Author Topic: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild  (Read 537 times)

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Offline fireman24mn

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Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« on: December 12, 2017, 10:14:08 AM »
As most of you know I need to rebuild my outdrive on the 23.  I am wondering if any one has researched gear sets, shafts, seals, etc. Looking for some advise for rebuilding my drive to handle the higher HP better.  If you have part numbers or things you have heard to do.

In searching the internet I dont find a lot other than stock merchandise gear sets.

Do you think it would be beneficial to have a gear set heat treated? Generally it seems that the upper gear set is the most common failure.

Thoughts? Suggestions?
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2017, 12:22:19 PM »
Has Tim got any feed back from guy on Facebook that was talking about Alpha mods ?
Eight years behind a big block sound like it's to good to be true ...

Facebook post ...

" heat treated 1.32 upper gears, offshore shore carrier, and one or 2 other goodies.. the water pump in drive is just for my drive shower... the drive was put together by one of the best who has shown me a lot but I leave the hard stuff in the drive to him.., fully restored overbuilt for bb, "
Gregg
'76 CV16

Offline TV27

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2017, 08:06:00 AM »
I need to rebuild the outdrive on "Toni's Toy" also, so far my research has led me to Roberts Marine. The tech there is rebuilding them with a non-stock gear set and I have yet to talk to him but Jim over at Imperial Boat Repair in Hudson says that's all he uses now.
1991  Sierra 175 "Toni's Toy"
1973 CV19ss "Taking Names"
1989 Rinker Captiva "Water we Doin"
1973 Trojan F-36 "Miss Toni"
1982 CV27 "Sea Yah"
1973 CV16ss "Blue ByYou"
1980 GT-150 "Beer Run"

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2017, 10:45:47 AM »
I need to rebuild the outdrive on "Toni's Toy" also, so far my research has led me to Roberts Marine. The tech there is rebuilding them with a non-stock gear set and I have yet to talk to him but Jim over at Imperial Boat Repair in Hudson says that's all he uses now.

Do you know what aftermarket gear set he uses?  I have read both ways on what to use. Some swear by the stock Merc with regular maintenance and synthetic oil. Others aftermarket gears, but still synthetic oil.

I have a drive shower although I may try to come up with some sort of cover/ hood to bolt on with a scotchbrite pad or something to hold the water a few secs longer to hopefully transfer more heat away. I talked to Old Red about it he was working on building one but never got it done.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Online Carlson_from_Germany

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2017, 05:23:53 AM »
Shawn have you ever checked your drive shower when in full speed?
I noticed that your boat runs pretty dry. When I had the Gen 2 Alpha on the Intimidator I once put a GoPro on the back to the see what happens.
When trimmed the shower was not doin anything as it was too high up to touch the water. So when it was actually supposed to cool it down it did nothing.

I still have to figure out what to do with the Bravo. It really doesn't need a shower but I'd still like to build one without drilling holes. I had the Simrek Summit drive shower before but as I said it doesn't work on my setup.

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2017, 08:59:34 PM »
I never have but my plan is to do the same thing and mount the go pro to see if it is getting water or not.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2017, 02:18:37 PM »
Any one know where I can buy a nose cone for a Alpha. All I can find is bravo cones.

Thinking I may end up making one with some aluminum and aluminum filler.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 02:26:31 PM by fireman24mn »
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2017, 03:32:54 PM »
Couple of thoughts: drive shower helps, but only if the pickups are below the cavitation plate.  1.32 was the alpha set for big block use, stronger essentially by ratio(teeth count), might want to consider a cryo process to improve gear life. Lastly, nose cone use is negligible at speeds under 80, which is why you can't find one for an alpha.  I'm not against making a drive more hydrodynamic, but you really have to make it perfect or it will do more harm than good.  Been some writing related to turbulence at water intakes.  Decent water flow is important which has me wondering why someone would use the impellor only for the drive shower?  I suspect a bravo seawater pump is used?  Many bravo nose cones move the water pick up as well for higher X dims.  Just my $0.02
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project, gps 85 mph (on trailer)
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2017, 05:48:47 PM »
Didn't Ol Red make his ?
Think there was a post on it ...
Gregg
'76 CV16

Online Carlson_from_Germany

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2017, 03:49:01 AM »
Contact them: https://bobsmachine.com/contact-us/
I'm pretty sure one of their nose cones fits the Alpha.

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2018, 02:08:06 PM »
Went over to Joe's last night and pulled my drives apart. They didn't look too bad, other than the top half that the gears let go in. Bottom half wasn't full of metal. Plan is to clean everything good new gears and bearings in the top half. New seals for top and bottom then reassemble. Also had to buy one more tool to get the gen 2 lower case apart so once that shows up we can see if we need any part in the lowers besides seals.

The drive Jeff bought on CL the upper looks good so new seals. However the lower had been apart and is missing a few pieces. Plan on ordering them up so I will have a back up drive on hand.

I was talking to a couple people and there is a synthetic lube some people use it sounds as though it is very thin in viscosity. Heard of a few people running it with higher HP set ups. Any one have a name brand or ideas?
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 02:27:49 PM »
I like using the Merc hi performance lube, but Amsoil, and royal purple both carry outstanding synthetics that I've had great luck in automotive/industrial applications.  Might check if they have a marine specific.   Has anyone tried to add an external resovoir to insure an alpha is full?  Bravo drive do so, but they have a unique transom plate with a pass thru.  Did the upper gear split, or did teeth come off?  I ask since cryo hardening might make them more prone to splitting.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project, gps 85 mph (on trailer)
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon

Offline still_fishin

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 02:55:07 PM »
Went over to Joe's last night and pulled my drives apart. They didn't look too bad, other than the top half that the gears let go in. Bottom half wasn't full of metal. Plan is to clean everything good new gears and bearings in the top half. New seals for top and bottom then reassemble. Also had to buy one more tool to get the gen 2 lower case apart so once that shows up we can see if we need any part in the lowers besides seals.

The drive Jeff bought on CL the upper looks good so new seals. However the lower had been apart and is missing a few pieces. Plan on ordering them up so I will have a back up drive on hand.

I was talking to a couple people and there is a synthetic lube some people use it sounds as though it is very thin in viscosity. Heard of a few people running it with higher HP set ups. Any one have a name brand or ideas?
Did you loose a seal in your drive?

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'86 CVX-18
'80 Intimidator

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2018, 03:06:03 PM »
No all the seals looked good. No milky oil just shiny metallic oil in the top case of one.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2018, 03:08:17 PM »
I like using the Merc hi performance lube, but Amsoil, and royal purple both carry outstanding synthetics that I've had great luck in automotive/industrial applications.  Might check if they have a marine specific.   Has anyone tried to add an external resovoir to insure an alpha is full?  Bravo drive do so, but they have a unique transom plate with a pass thru.  Did the upper gear split, or did teeth come off?  I ask since cryo hardening might make them more prone to splitting.

1 tooth came off the gear then got ground up a bit.

I have a gen 2 so mine has the reservoir inside to keep it full.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline V153

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2018, 05:56:43 PM »

I was talking to a couple people and there is a synthetic lube some people use it sounds as though it is very thin in viscosity. Heard of a few people running it with higher HP set ups. Any one have a name brand or ideas?

Look up Alisyn. 0 viscosity.
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Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2018, 05:02:24 PM »
Looks like pretty good stuff. I will be ordering that to put in instead of the mere stuff. And its pretty much the same price. Or cheaper if you buy a gallon the way it look on their web site.

« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 05:05:53 PM by fireman24mn »
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2018, 05:21:51 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong Shawn, but the Alisyn 0w I found on the net appears to be engine oil, not a gear lubricant.  Granted it's not a hypoid set like a rear end, but is it a risk to use a lubricant not rated for gear service?
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project, gps 85 mph (on trailer)
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 11:31:31 AM »
This stuff is for gears. They have a lot of products even 2 cycle oil. There is an article about the gear oil on Scream and fly but the link to the data dont work.
http://syntheticlubricants.aerospacelubricants.com/viewitems/market-marine/progear-21
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline ScottsCVX

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Re: Alpha 1 Gen 2 rebuild
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2018, 08:35:50 AM »
Here is a link to the Alisyn ProGear review on Scream and Fly:

http://www.screamandfly.com/content.php?51-Product-Evaluation-Alisyn-ProGear-21-Type-1
Scott
86 CVX 18
84 CVX 16 120hp Johnson
74 GT-160 120hp Mariner