Author Topic: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair  (Read 4740 times)

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Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2018, 02:19:09 PM »
Well progress is coming along, pulled out all of the seats and side panels. The front panel that divides off the cuddy was screwed into the floor and the top of the shell, they had screws every 6" and 50% of them were broken off, the other 50% were bent, seems like there has been a bit of flexing and movement happening there.
Also pulled the carpet and cut out the section of floor above the tank. I pulled all of the gas out of the tank a couple months ago, 125L worth!
The floor under the tank is completely rotten as well, kind of figured it wouldn't be pretty under there.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 02:21:56 PM by RedOctober89 »
Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2018, 01:04:47 PM »
So I got a fair bit done this weekend. Pulled up the plywood in the cuddy area, the floor in the cuddy, and pried and cut away a lot of the fiberglass. Looking at the design of this boat, it doesn't look very good to me, along with the fact it looked like it was built on a Friday afternoon. The keel was made up of 2 parts that didn't even travel the length of the hull. It was completely rotten anyways, and the fiberglass laid over top looked like it never bonded well to the hull, I was able to pry the sheets off with a screwdriver. I know these CV 23's are known to be weak where the cuddy starts and I can see why. I also don't understand why the main stringers are not attached to the transom, or even the engine beams.. Planning on laminating a second stringer to the existing ones and adding new fiberglass, along with a new much heavier keel. But after removing a lot of the existing fiberglass and finding wood rot, might turn into a bigger / full rebuild project.

Also found out the engine beams have started to rot.

The waters where we boat can get rough rather quickly and I don't want to worry about the hull while trying to navigate!
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 01:21:25 PM by RedOctober89 »
Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2018, 02:17:19 PM »
I agree with the design of the stringer layout, it wasn't set up for any strength. I made my stringers one piece from front to back and also tied them into the cross braces. Last I added another small center stringer under the floor of the cuddy. If you look a lot of the 23s have a crack in the hull on the bottom where the front buddy floor meets the bulk head for the main floor.  Good luck there is a lot of wood in those boats.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2018, 10:45:19 AM »
It definitely makes sense why a lot of the 23's have cracks there, even mine has slight spider cracking in the gel coat at that spot, by having the center stringer in two pieces and join at that spot, along with the drop in the floor it doesn't give a lot of strength from pounding into waves, all that force is at the front of the boat.

I have been contemplating on how to proceed with this project for the last few days, after finding that there is slight wood rot on the stringers in a few sections (can see circled below). I am wondering if I should pull out the all stringers and fiberglass and do a full new framework. Basically starting from scratch. Which would require supporting the hull, lots of wood, fiberglass, and all new foam. Which is probably the proper way..

Or

If I should just replace the 'center' of the boat. Glue on new, stringers to the existing ones, as well as replacing the engine mounts, new keel, new floor etc. The problem would be that in the circled sections of the old stringer there isn't any strength. As well as I don't know what kind of shape the fiberglass or hull is on the other side or under the existing foam. This is more of the easier/faster/cheaper route..
Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2018, 06:09:48 PM »
Many of us have found ourselves in the same predicament.  The more you dig, the more rot you find.  How you approach the repair can vary quite a bit.  Sistering up the stringers is possible I suppose, but will the belly tank fit back in?  I found quite a bit of my Timi foam was re useable, so that saves a bit, maybe some of yours is salvageable.  All depends on your long term plans, do it right and there never be any question.  Patch it poorly, and you might be back in to do it over.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2018, 03:01:50 PM »
Yea that is my worry, I do plan on keeping the boat for a long time, and don't want to have to worry about it. Just difficult pulling out material that isn't really bad..

Could you cut up the old foam and just pour new foam around it? Any of the foam I've pulled out so far isn't wet at all. Didn't really think of reusing it.
Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2018, 04:23:48 PM »
When I pulled the foam from my Timi, the Port side came out whole and weighs about5-7 lbs(a guess really)   Light enough  to indicate no absorbed moisture.  My plan is to cut it in big chunks and pour new around those chunks.  My thought is the new foam is less likely to absorb water, and hiding the old inside keeps water away from it.  It the end, displacement is all you need so construction foam(pink sheets), swim noodles, etc will work.  Some use great foam, the stuff in a can from Lowes or Home depot, but I try to stay away from that.  Marine foam is much denser and harder.   Cant say the difference between the two, just an opinion as to which one to use.   My CVZ foam was bad, bad, bad, we cut out all of it, and most was water logged.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2018, 04:52:08 PM »
Okay well then that would really save a lot of new foam by re using the old, I was planning on using, if I can get my hands on it, the Secure Set, from reading I believe that's what some of the other guys on here have been using? As long as it doesn't react with other type of foam fillers I could for sure re use what I have.
I agree, not sure if I would trust the window/door foam to not absorb water or act as structure as well as what's in the hull now.
Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2018, 03:19:00 PM »
Well after a few weeks of no progress on the boat, had a full weekend of productivity! Weather was nice and the roads were clear so I was able to take the boat to my work and use a crane to pull the motor out, which made that job A LOT easier. Our cherry picker just won't go high enough to get the motor out and over the side. Both the motor and out drive came apart and out quite easily.

So once that was out of the way I was able to see what kind of shape the transom was in. Looking at it from the outside and the engine compartment it looked fine, no signs of rot. However once the out drive was off you could see the wood was rotten, so cut off the fiberglass and scraped off all the wood, I couldn't believe how bad it was! Even for a boat that has been kept in a shed its whole life!!
Along with the removal of the transom we pulled out the motor mounts (which were water logged) and center stringers and the foam beside them. Have a lot of grinding to do to now.
Made the decision to leave the outer stringers and foam how they are, and just replace the center framework and put a new floor over top.

I have been doing a lot of reading and researching on hull design and my Dad and I also have put a lot of thought into the new stringer layout, we are planning on laying 2x10's right in the 'nook' of the strake, ALL the way to the front. I have no idea why Glastron put their stringers so far away from that, other than to fit the gas tank, but that would have been the reason why I have cracks in the gelcoat along the strakes, just not enough support in that area of the hull.
The problem with moving the stringers in closer is that finding a gas tank to fit is becoming very difficult. I have been able to find a plastic tank that would fit, but it'll cost me $1100 bucks (Canadian) to get it, which is a little steep.. Might have to design an aluminum tank to fit, or use 2 smaller tanks..

Here's some pictures of progress!!
Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2018, 03:20:38 PM »
some more..
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 03:30:55 PM by RedOctober89 »
Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2018, 09:13:17 AM »
Just a thought. If you are that far into it why not just replace the last stringer and little bit of floor. Then you know it is all done and everything is good.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Being restored
1976 CV-23 Jet
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2018, 09:51:45 AM »
Good question, I have asked that myself.. More or less just to save the extra work of removing it, along with new glass, new foam etc. It seems to be in good shape and has lasted 30 years.
I'll still be putting a new floor over the whole thing
Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2018, 09:55:33 AM »
I would agree with Shawn, tear the rest out.  The current stringers show black in spots indicating water has wicked up.  The cost of materials is less than what you described for a new fuel tank.  I have a feeling if you tore those out, you would find more rot and bad foam.  It's kinda like rust, if you don't get it all, the problems will come back.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2018, 02:44:11 PM »
Yeah, you aren't wrong. Just have a hard time removing material that is is pretty good shape. Definitely been pondering over this!

Seem's like most people, and boat builders use plywood for stringers. I understand it could be easier, and probably cheaper to use plywood, because finding dimensional wood that's good quality in that length could be difficult and expensive. But what are the benefits of using laminated plywood for stringers instead of using solid wood? Or what are the downsides to using dimensional lumber?

My plan is to use lumber (for the stringers) for its strength in the vertical plane and being able to get it in one long continuous piece, instead of having joints from the 8' plywood sheets.

Also makes more sense to me to use lumber since with plywood every other layer is running in the wrong direction for strength in this application.

Just looking for some input!

Thanks!
Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2018, 03:12:33 PM »
What wood to use is an exhausting question to answer.  There is plenty of coverage of the topic to be found in the archives, but I'll take a moment to attempt a quick explanation.  Dimensional lumber, 2x4,2x6,2x8,etc is strong and load bearing in two directions.  It is suitable for use as stringers when fitted properly.  Plywood, has layers of wood bonded together and is meant more for spreading load or force radially, so think floors and transom.  Now a laminate or ply can be used, but unless the grain of the layers are aligned, then the overall strength will be less than comparable dimensional lumber.  A parallam for instance would work in a boat, but insuring it would not pick up moisture may be a real challenge.  Of course there are composites, but there are others on here that understand them better than I, so I will defer to them.  Why did Glastron use ply materials in the skeleton design under our floors?  I suspect if you look at all the sizes, you'd find some designer found a way to cut down on wood scrap waste and made use of full sheets.  Whatever wood/composites you decide to use, proper care and storage of the boat will likely allow to outlive us all.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2018, 03:31:21 PM »
Yes I have been doing a lot of digging to try and get a good explanation, it seems like a very exhausting question to answer. A lot agree that dimensional is stronger than ply - which makes sense, yet most people seem to build using ply..? For sure I believe that the engineers at Glastron, or any other boat manufacture would use plywood because it is consistent and as you mentioned, smaller parts = less scrap = more profit. You just loose with the structure.
Composites is a whole other game, I am very unfamiliar with them and don't really feel comfortable working with them or using them in this rebuild. That and it's hard to get my hands on that stuff where I am! However a fully composite boat would last forever, literally.
Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2018, 03:38:10 PM »
    Wait until you get into the polyester/vinylester/epoxy and paint versus gelcoat conversations, there on here somewhere as well.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline RedOctober89

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2018, 03:42:48 PM »
Haha oh yes, read lots of discussions on that as well! I believe I have a good idea what I will use for that!


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Andrew C.
1989 Glastron Carlson 23 CSS 350 Mag - Red October
Follow the project on Instagram: redoctober89

Offline V153

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2018, 03:58:41 PM »
Composite(s) is the only way to go. And you don't have to be wealthy to use em.
'81 Baja 15SS_140 Frankenrude_66.7 mph
'70 something SpeedCraft_(Allison 16R Clone)_69.0 mph
'79 CVZ19_given away
'81 C500_given away
'71 153_wrecked


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Offline Plugcheck

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Re: '89 Glastron Carlson 23CSS Project and Repair
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2018, 04:27:36 PM »
Wealthy no, but it helps to live close to where they sell them.  No one around here sells the products for boats.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude