Author Topic: Repowering a Classic  (Read 14610 times)

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Offline Dyounge

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Repowering a Classic
« on: August 22, 2018, 02:22:25 PM »
I have posted a few times about my ongoing issue with my 1969 Evinrude 115HP Starflite on my 1969 GT-160. I'll be picking the boat up from the third mechanic this week and it is still not running. I'm officially throwing in the towel. My season is done and I will need a new motor for next year. I have a lot of research to do, but wanted to begin getting opinions from some guys who know.

After quickly looking around, it looks like I could go for a carb'd unit from the late 80's or 90's for $2-3K or a newer 2005-ish EFI motor for $3-4K. An "older" carb'd unit would still be 20-30 years newer than the one it's replacing, but should I spend the extra money for a newer one? I'm looking for reliability, parts availability, quality service, and lightweight. Any recommendations on brand, year, model, 2 vs 4 stroke, carb vs efi, etc. would be extremely appreciated. Also, where to buy? Dealer/mechanic or craigslist/ebay? Any places that do pre-purchase inspections?

Offline Oldfishguy

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2018, 02:36:17 PM »
Hmmm.

Where are you?
1972 1/2 Glastron CV 16
1973 Chrysler 120

Offline Dyounge

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2018, 03:04:31 PM »
Hmmm.

Where are you?

Sorry, I suppose that's important to know! I'm in Shakopee, southern end of the Twin Cities Metro. I'm not afraid to drive to get what I want, though.

Offline dorelse

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2018, 03:23:05 PM »
If its me Darren, I'm putting on a newer 4-Stroke.  Quiet operation, no oil to mix, no exhaust smoke, just turn the key and go.
1990 Sierra 1700

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2018, 03:31:21 PM »
My 2 cents ..
I would find a late 80's to 90's OMC V4, which would be a 2 stroke, carb, Fast trac T&T, 90 to 120 HP motor.
Then paint / decal to older model motor, newer motor that still keep your vintage look.

Keep an eye on CL. for motors or entire boats with nice motors.
Local dealers take in trades and post on CL.
Some motor rebuilder in city's, Check CL's "Boat parts" section.

An E-TEC would be cool ... But look kind of weird on stern.
A four stroke would be quit, reliable, smoke free, newer and kind of expensive ..
Which is why I love the loud, unreliable, smoking 2 strokes !   

Offline bayrife

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2018, 04:41:48 PM »
That GT 160 hull wants a "tower of power" Merc!  We have ran numerous older 70s 80s mercurys with zero issues, I am partial to the two strokes, lighter, torwue, less moving parts, etc. but like you mentioned when problems do occur its becoming harder to find shops to work on them.  But usually with them they arnt horribly hard to figure out.  Very odd someone cant track down whats going on with your evinrude. 

If it were me, I would stick with a two stroke, the question you would have to ask yourself is if you want a motor with oil injection or pre oil injection.  Some of the early injection models can be hit or miss, some run perfectly for years, some fail and blow the powerhead.  No matter what a used motor is a gamble, for example my uncle has a 2011 150 Merc optimax the fancy air compressor failed this summer, loosing them a month on the water and 1500 dollars in repairs later.  I find myself more comfortable with an older two stroke because overall there is just less going on and can be easier to diagnose.  If you know your way around motors, older two strokes arnt hard to keep operating, if you dont have as much experience, then a newer one may put your mind at ease.  All depends on your budget as well.
Good Luck, I am interested to know your decision.       
Baylen Rifleman
1989 18CSS, Johnson GT 175 OB
1974 CV-16 - Green, 77' 1150 Merc OB
1989 Futura 180, 150 Merc Black Max OB (in family)

Offline Jason

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  • 1974 CV16SS, 1986 CV23
Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2018, 09:33:44 PM »
I agree with Gregg. I'd try and keep the classic look as well. 80-90's OMC V4 would be my choice as well. Otherwise a 80's inline 6 Merc would be nice as well. I'd buy a donor boat (probably be the cheapest route) so I can water test the engine and get all the controls as well or form a dealer with a warranty. Can't trust anybody these days.
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline Dyounge

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2018, 10:50:15 PM »
Appreciate it. Keep it coming. I'm liking the idea of a 90's 120hp or 140hp looper. A little heavier but still lighter than any newer EFI or 4 stroke. Can make it look classic but up to 25 years newer.

When repowering, do different brands have different bolt patterns to attach to the transom? Would sticking with OMC prevent having to drill new holes? I know EFI engines have way higher fuel pressure. Do they use a regular tank or would I need a new one? I currently have a Moeller 18gallon permanent. What about steering? Are all the brands the same or would that need to be changed too if I went with a non-OMC option?

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2018, 11:30:27 PM »
OMC and newer Merc's use same bolt pattern. As do all Yamaha's, Suzuki's, etc.
You would need to get about mid 80's Merc to get that bolt pattern, which would have the T&T built into motor.
The older style Merc would have clamps and T&T cyl. on sides of motor and need new holes drilled.

Believe all 90 / 120 (2 stroke) motors are about 320 lbs. give or take a few lbs.
Your tank is fine no matter which motor you get, might need new connector on motor end of fuel hose.
Is tank clean with fresh treated fuel or empty ? Any visible rust or corrosion ?
Unlike a 4 stroke, 2 strokes NEED fresh, clean fuel !

Steering might need to be changed, kind of depends on the set up you have now. If it's old / original I would replace any how.
Is it tilt tube, transom mount or splash well mount ?  Post a picture if your not sure …

What are your thoughts on oil injection / mixing gas & oil ?

Offline Oldfishguy

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2018, 07:35:22 AM »

Good advice above.

My thoughts come with a question; How much do you plan on using the boat?

If your going out every day, or a lot . . . go with the much newer 4 stroke.  I do not believe our old two strokes will take the pounding and abuse required to pull tubers or skiiers on a daily basis.

If your an occasional boater, say once a week, go with a classic two stroke.

I've had conversations with the guys at Pro Tech in Albertville over the years and they seem reasonable.  They typically have quite a few motors in stock to sell that they have overhauled.  It is a small shop just off Hwy 94.  I'd give you the web address but it is not that kind of shop.

Best of luck.

David
1972 1/2 Glastron CV 16
1973 Chrysler 120

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2018, 08:56:01 AM »
Would be a good place to start …

Pro Tech Marine
5640 MacKenzie Ave NE
Albertville, MN 55301
(763) 497 0520


One of there CL ad's ..
1989 johnson 70 hp remote - $2500 (Albertville)
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/bpo/d/1989-johnson-70-hp-remote/6671835580.html


Offline bayrife

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2018, 09:04:50 AM »
OMC and newer Merc's use same bolt pattern. As do all Yamaha's, Suzuki's, etc.
You would need to get about mid 80's Merc to get that bolt pattern, which would have the T&T built into motor.
The older style Merc would have clamps and T&T cyl. on sides of motor and need new holes drilled.

Believe all 90 / 120 (2 stroke) motors are about 320 lbs. give or take a few lbs.
Your tank is fine no matter which motor you get, might need new connector on motor end of fuel hose.
Is tank clean with fresh treated fuel or empty ? Any visible rust or corrosion ?
Unlike a 4 stroke, 2 strokes NEED fresh, clean fuel !

Steering might need to be changed, kind of depends on the set up you have now. If it's old / original I would replace any how.
Is it tilt tube, transom mount or splash well mount ?  Post a picture if your not sure …

What are your thoughts on oil injection / mixing gas & oil ?

Not sure on the bolt pattern question but I will agree with Gregg on the steering, now would be an excellent time to change the steering for preventative maintenance.  I did the steering in my craft this summer and its the best thing I ever did.  Most steering cables are universal, it all just depends on how it is connected to the motor like Gregg said, transom mount? through tilt tube?  If you dont know when the steering cables were last changed or if they are sticky and tough at all I would recommend changing because you'll have the motor off anyway.  But if the steering feels okay then you can keep it, but make sure you save any mounting brackets from your old motor for the new motor.  This is where the difference will come between OMC, Mercury etc.  they use different mounting brackets to attach to the motor.  Again it all depends on what style you have now.   
Baylen Rifleman
1989 18CSS, Johnson GT 175 OB
1974 CV-16 - Green, 77' 1150 Merc OB
1989 Futura 180, 150 Merc Black Max OB (in family)

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2018, 11:02:23 AM »
If your cable / helm are from 1969 … I would replace them !
Most older Glastron's come with the "Splash well mount"
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 11:14:06 AM by Hyperacme »

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2018, 11:13:13 AM »
Old Merc, T&T cyl. on side of motor / thumb screw mounts  … Won't fit !
New Merc will bolt on with out problems.

Offline David CVX-16

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2018, 12:35:02 PM »
The four stroke motors and the Johnson/Evinrudes beyond 1985 weight in at 390 pounds or more. A Johnson/Evinrude crossflow is 302 pounds. I consider that enough of a weight difference in the advantage of the crossflows.
David
87' CVX-16, 85' 115 HP Johnson, 58.8 MPH GPS w/ 23" SRX Prop

Offline Dyounge

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2018, 07:44:56 PM »
I will absolutely reach out to Pro-Tech and see what they can do for me. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll stick with a two stroke due to weight. EFI is tempting, though. Some say the FICHT engines after 2001 are great. Others say stay away from all of them. Their prices are not much more than a carb engine and maybe that should tell me something!

I believe I have splashwell mount steering. I'll have to double check that it's not transom mount, though. I will pick the ol' girl up tomorrow. I attached a pic, but it doesn't show a whole lot. And good to know on the Mercury bolt patterns. Also, what about gauges? I have OMC branded gauges in the boat. Would they work with any 2 stroke?

I'm starting to feel better about this whole thing. It'll be good to get away from the old technology, electric shift, and the I think 9A charging system. I might not have to run two batteries anymore. They're Group 27 deep cycles so that'll offset a good chunk of any weight gain from a more modern engine.

Offline 84carlson

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2018, 08:20:36 PM »
I would stay away from the FICHT, I've only heard bad things about that engine, I've only owned OMC engines, Johnson 14O, GREAT ENGINE, however I like my 1999 Johnson 115, 60 degree engine the best.  They have the system check controls, still 2 cycle and light.  When you cold start it, the timing is steped up initially and it starts better than any 2 cycle I've owned.

Picture below is an example.


« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 08:22:30 PM by 84carlson »

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2018, 08:31:54 PM »
I believe " FICHT " is why OMC went out of business .. I wouldn't take the chance ..
You could ask Pro-Tech about them, I've never heard anything good about FICHT.

Checked the brochure and Max HP rating is 110 HP. There's a 15% fudge factor.
Dealer can install a motor that 15% greater then rated.
I didn't know about the Loop charge motors being heavier then the Crossflows, but trust what Dave stated.

I don't think your tach will work with other motors, speedo's work off a tube connected to a pick up on your transom, nothing to do with motor year/brand/style. Same with fuel gauge, nothing to do with motor.

When you replace your motor .. You might want to prepare your self for wood rot in your transom and floor ..
Just saying .. Don't be surprised if there is some. 

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2018, 09:05:40 PM »
Pro-Tech Ad on CL.

90 hp Johnson 1985 - $2200 (Albertville)
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/boa/d/90-hp-johnson-1985/6664061230.html

This 1985 Johnson has good compression came in on trade I put in a water pump and carburetor kits ready to go call Tommy
I do take some Motors in trade what do you have.   

Offline Oldfishguy

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Re: Repowering a Classic
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2018, 10:47:06 PM »

Every year I anticipate going to Pro Tech and buying a Johnson 115, but every year . . . well:

https://youtu.be/WVEUPPcmQfg


😀
1972 1/2 Glastron CV 16
1973 Chrysler 120