Author Topic: Maggie's minivan  (Read 20181 times)

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Offline still_fishin

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #100 on: May 31, 2020, 11:03:25 PM »
Im not sure if these 23's had a storage shelf under the console but most seem to have something under there.  Well the one in our boat was trashed. I threw it out during the deconstruction thinking it was something the previous owner cobbled together. Well I was working on a few other wood working projects for Maggie today so I also built a new shelf while the tools were out.  The first picture is one i stole off the interweb.  The others are of the shelf i built. 

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Offline still_fishin

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #101 on: June 01, 2020, 02:46:22 PM »
I also made a spot for the hour meter that was installed when the motor was rebuilt.  The way the boat wired it will only count with the key "on". The important part is now the key doesn't need to be on to listen to the radio. I'd like to know how many hours on that meter are radio only hours. 

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Offline catchnedge

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #102 on: June 02, 2020, 05:50:00 AM »
Great progress Tim! 
Mark
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Offline ScottsCVX

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #103 on: June 02, 2020, 09:50:56 AM »
Looking great!  That dash pic from the interwebs looks like the dash on my recent buy from Iowa.


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Offline still_fishin

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #104 on: June 03, 2020, 01:26:23 AM »
This explains my short lived idle issues.  I was waiting for one of the thick base gaskets so in the mean time i used a thin one.......incorrectly. 

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Offline Jason

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #105 on: June 03, 2020, 09:54:48 AM »
This explains my short lived idle issues.  I was waiting for one of the thick base gaskets so in the mean time i used a thin one.......incorrectly. 

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Funny. It’s almost always something stupid isin’t it.
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Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #106 on: June 03, 2020, 10:49:59 AM »
Might be the correct gasket, it looks like it shifted during install.  High tack helps a bunch with thin margin gaskets
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
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Offline still_fishin

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #107 on: June 06, 2020, 11:45:24 AM »
So I've been battling this carb for three days now..... maybe more. It is a quadrajet,  17059288 to be exact.  I traded Joe the one that was on the motor,  an Edelbrock something or other i have no experience with for the quadrajet off one of his parts boats.  The boat had a 350 in it so i thought a good cleaning would be all that it needed. After getting the carb back on the motor I did the usuall timing and idle adjustments. I have a few guages hooked up to keep an eye on oil pressure,  temp, rpm and a vacuum guage for the idle tuning. I got the engine running pretty good but noticed the idle mixture screws had zero effect on the vacuum guage or rpm. The engine was getting the fuel from some place else. For nothing more then not understanding how the magic inside a quadrajet works i thought the transition slots above the idle mixture screws were feeding the engine the extra fuel and that those slots needed to be completely covered. Ok,  tear it off and figure out what needs to be adjusted to achieve that.  Before i go further you should know i have three other quadrajets i can rob parts off. Knowing what i just stated i tried bending the primary throttle blades down a bit to cover those slots.  Back together it went and nothing changed.  Ok,  back off, back apart, what's next? Bent blades off and spare set on. I have a Cliff Ruggles book on the quadrajet so I started paging through the idle section. I didn't find anything that screamed this is your problem so i put it back together and just started going to the extremes with the adjustments.  Lots of timing,  idle mixture screws seated, 5 turns out, idle speed screw yada yada yada.  At one point i knew the fuel was overloading and it died.  I hit the key just to hear the bendix gear engage the flywheel and lock. Fuel hydro lock. Out come the plugs and of course it's #1. The last plug pulled.  I had a spare set of plugs so in they went. At this time i also removed the 90's from the exhaust added some 3" pvc extensions to the exhaust. When i had the 90's on i was getting water all over the garage floor.   Ok,  back on and running.... my God a few minutes in and the inside off that perfectly white pvc is now black with soot.  Ok that explains the crap floating on the exhaust water. A dark film almost like little pieces of torn up paper.  They didn't have that oil or fuel on water look to them. Next i Google a bunch of stuff similar to rich idle.... nozzle drip seems to be the common issue in most the stuff i read.  Nozzle drip was happening because the idle speed screw needed to be turned in to get enough idle air which allows that air to pull fuel out the primary nozzles.  A lot of fuel in my case. Apparently this issue is common in modified engines. I know the po had the engine rebuilt and I was told it was 290hp. I figured they sold him what he wanted to hear and the engine wasn't really modified past rebuilt. I may have been wrong. Anyways,  back to the troubleshooting.  I bet I've had the carb off and a part no less then ten times.  I'm pretty good at it now.  I decided to call up one of my old coworkers and run some of this by him.  The guy,  Preston, is methodical and knows quadrajets. I wasn't quite done explaining my issue when he says i know what you need to do. "Idle bypass air." Somewhere I read most marine carbs do not have it factory, all can be added though.  Mine was easy enough.  A couple holes,  one modded gasket and we were headed in the right direction.  Back on and running i noticed more travel from the idle speed screw before the nozzle drip started.  Ok,  off it came,  back apart it came.  In Cliffs book he has a few different recipes for the hole diameters in the idle circuitry based on a few 350 cam and compression ratio setups.  I picked one similar to a merc 260 that was slightly built. I took those numbers and upsized just to the lean side of his windows.  Though i did up size the idle tubes to 0.040 from 0.030. I also upsized the idle bypass air a bit more to 0.088. Back together and on the engine ready to check the results and Preston calls back from a message I left earlier.  We go over what I upsized and right away I can hear his eyes rolling. He tells me in all his years of building big cubic inch Pontiac motors he has never seen an idle tube upsized to 0.040 and it is going to be way  too rich at idle.... Good thing I have spares. 0.040 was the smallest bit I had, guess I'll order smaller bits. The rest of the diameters sound good and could be upsized more depending on the needs of the engine. Start small... We settle on about 0.033-0.035 for the idle tubes. After our call I resumed testing the new adjustments.  I now have mixture control with the idle mixture screws,  good vacuum and zero nozzle drip. The exhaust is still floating the dark stuff on the water but im attributing that to my idle tube over sizing mistake.  Il report back after i get the replacement tubes installed. 

Here are some pictures of the idle bypass air install.  The red X's show the nation body holes that needed to be drilled..

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Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #108 on: June 06, 2020, 03:53:02 PM »
I commend you for having the initiative to custom work a qjet.  Have only known a few to drill passages in a production carb, and frankly, I've never had to on a Qjet before.   The problem is fuel dribbling from boosters at idle, correct?    Air horn flat?  Float height correct?   How do the throttle shafts feel?  Many older qjets suffer from worn throttle shaft bores which cause air bleed, and draw from boosters.  I use a bit specially made and a driver for this shown in picture.   Won't say it's what is causing the issue, but when they are bad the idle screws have little effect.     Hope this helps.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline still_fishin

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #109 on: June 06, 2020, 11:23:29 PM »
The float, shafts and air horn are good.  To be clear,  the nozzle drip is gone.  Now i need to tighten up the idle tubes to lean out the idle.  New or spare idle tubes opened up to around 0.032-0.035 should fix that.  Then it is time for install.   

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Offline still_fishin

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #110 on: June 08, 2020, 09:22:58 PM »
The news keeps getting better............
By the hour meter on the motor I've put about 2 hours on it screwing around with the carb. Ive been checking the oil regularly due the one time i hydro locked it. Today i noticed a bit of milky oil at the tip of the dip stick.  I dropped the oil to find the pictured oil pour out. Again,  just the very of the stick was milky. I remember seeing the dip stick tube and stick ended at about the same level.  Im not sure if the oil in the tube wasn't getting mixed up or what. Earlier i thought some fuel would have gotten past the rings when i assumed i hydro locked it with fuel....nope!  That there is water.  At this point I have the engine down to a short block and found nothing that looks failed causing the mixture. Before i tore it down i did a compression test on it and they all were between 160 and 170. I will say the odd side cylinders all had water in them. That side also had more water running out of the exhaust running and not running........ yes not running.  I think i screwed up.  This motor is not in the boat and i was cooling it with the garden hose run into the engine hose that attaches to the transom assembly.  When i turned the garden hose on it pressurized the engine cooling system all the way out the exhaust. I may have been pushing so much water through the exhaust risers that it was making its way down to the cylinders. My other thought is it could have been the intake gasket. In some of the pictures the coolant passage look contaminated. What do you all think?

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Offline 75starflight

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #111 on: June 09, 2020, 07:26:45 AM »
By the look of those gaskets I am guessing you had a typical general motors intake failure. I would change it and try again
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Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #112 on: June 09, 2020, 08:22:33 AM »
Not a pretty site.  You mentioned the engine was rebuilt, rated to produce 290hp?  If the heads or deck were milled for cleanup or compression, the intake may not fit the way it is intended.  Might be worth checking.   When all back together, could you pressure test the system for leaks using air instead of water?  Say 15-20psi?   If water was in all four cylinders to one side only, it might be from the exhaust, maybe a crack or bad gasket at the riser maybe? 
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #113 on: June 09, 2020, 09:30:16 AM »
You put quite a few hours on it last year correct?
I agree that that intake gasket did look like it failed, but with water in  One side like you describe I would guess it has something to do with the exhaust manifold/riser or induction through the exhaust. Although i have run several motors on the floor like that with full garden hose pressure and not had a problem.


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Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #114 on: June 09, 2020, 03:52:30 PM »
I would put my money on it was the garden hose that caused it. A friend did it to his boat in the driveway last year and have never had a problem again.
I think this has become an addiction.


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Offline still_fishin

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #115 on: June 10, 2020, 01:28:07 AM »
I have the engine back together minus the exhaust. I guess this way I'll be able to get a drill in there to pre drill the engine mount bolts versus setting the engine, marking holes, removing engine, drilling holes,  then setting the engine again. With the amount of water in the odd cylinders when i removed the spark plugs I'm comfortable saying it was the port exhaust manifold/ riser or just a result if running it on the hose. While I have the exhaust off I'm going to look into pressure test it.

Earlier today I cut something like an inch and a half of the dip stick tube so that all the area in the stick that should normally have oil is clear of the tube. I'm not interested in having a repeat of the incident where the stick showed good oil and the oil pan was full of milk. 

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Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #116 on: June 10, 2020, 09:33:06 PM »
The dipstick tube sits in a recess or recepticle in the pan, by shortening the tube, haven't you changed the oil level reading?
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline still_fishin

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #117 on: June 10, 2020, 11:31:27 PM »
The dipstick tube sits in a recess or recepticle in the pan, by shortening the tube, haven't you changed the oil level reading?
I don't follow? I don't know what you mean by a recess. I pulled the whole tube out,  it was loose, and cut the material off the bottom. 

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Offline still_fishin

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #118 on: June 10, 2020, 11:40:51 PM »
Ok Mike,  after a quick Google search it looks like most dipstick tubes are two piece correct?  This one is one piece with a flare 10 or so inches up that seats in the block. 

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Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Maggie's minivan
« Reply #119 on: June 11, 2020, 01:36:49 AM »
I didn't see any stamped lip on the dipstick tube from your photos, so I incorrectly thought it was a custom length tube designed to fit two piece applications.  Commonly used when larger pans or unique sumps are used.  Another clue was the dipstick didn't exit the end of the tube.  I wonder if that's a mercruiser thing, maybe to clear marine exhaust?  I attached a stock photo of a GM sbc stick/tube.  The crimp is close to the end, and the stick goes well past the end. 
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude