Author Topic: Ok Guy's ...  (Read 17387 times)

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Offline Hotwired

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2010, 11:38:22 PM »
ya really think that will work??? OK .. be right back.  :-/
.. it is what it is ... and that is how it should be!
Miss Mayberry - 1964 Saberflite
The Ship - 1979 CV-27
Canon Ball Eyes - 1976 CV-16ssV8
Da ProJect Bote - 1977 CV-23
It Is What It Is...... CVX20

Offline Eric_Michael

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2010, 05:38:50 PM »
well ... I sold the motor out of my boat, gonna build me a new one, I ordered the Scat 383 stroker kit yesterday, and bought a really Kool looking EFI set-up .. I don't know what it's called for sure, but it's a Lot taller than the carb and intake, it kinda looks like the Mercruiser 525 set-up, but it's for a small block.  I'll try to get pictures of it tomorrow.  It is a multiport fuel injection system on a high rise, it's Mercruiser stuff for a 430hp small block, never been installed and it's all plug-in stuff, computer, ignition system, fuel pump, barametric pressure, knock .. all the sensors, a wiring harness that looks like I better get someone else to hook it up when I get it installed.
Kinda looks like this

Okay, I am down with this.  Way cool!  I really dig the idea of a modern EFI technology under the hood of a classic application.  I look forward to seeing the YouTube videos.   ;D

I have been pondering this combination since I first read the post a few days ago.  I am confused on the direction you are going and hoping you can offer some insight into your thinking.

A SBC 383 is known as a stroker motor.  The long stroke yields great torque numbers.  However, the long stroke is also a limiter to higher RPMs compared to a short stroke motor like a SBC 302.

Four-cycle motors aren't really happy when run at WOT for extended periods - like in a boat.  So I surmise you are intending to make most of the 383's power through torque at a lower RPM than what you have previously been running.

I was fine through that thinking, but then I realized you would need to change the gearing / prop just like changing the differential gears in a car.  That would allow you to take advantage of the 383's torque by either spinning the prop faster, or by the prop taking a bigger bite out of the water.  Either way, more water would move for a single revolution of the crankshaft.

However, a boat is unlike a car in that there is no torque converter or clutch to compensate for starting speeds.  Once the boat is in gear, away you go.

I guess my question comes down to...  With the 383's torque and (presumably) changed gears / prop, won't this make the boat a bit of a handful at port speed? 

This is one of the challenges (but NOT a complaint  ;D) I have with my boat - the 24p prop makes my idle speed at about 7-8mph through the 5mph 'no wake' zones.  Docking is challenging compared to other boaters who can idle right up to the dock.

Thanks,
-Eric

Offline wexrocks

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2010, 07:43:37 PM »


A SBC 383 is known as a stroker motor.  The long stroke yields great torque numbers.  However, the long stroke is also a limiter to higher RPMs compared to a short stroke motor like a SBC 302.

the 383 is an excellent stroker, in that you don't sacrifice in any direction. exactly what I intend to use in my Scimitar, and possibly the Intimidator as well. the bore and stroke are matched, and while it has the longer crank stroke (400 sbc crank) it has shorter rods. they really are fairly bulletproof, and the Scat cranks and rods are very good equipment, designed for very high rpm, high horsepower applications meant for the track that often see 8k or 9k rpm in any where from 700-1000 hp motors (blowers, nitrous,etc.) while the sbc 302 (dz 302) you mentioned was a higher rpm motor than others of its day, it would never withstand what these aftermarket parts in a 383 stroker set-up can take, and the rpms they reach. it does have the potential as a torque monster, but with the right cam can be just as effective as a midrange and high rpm motor as well. so I guess there is room for compensation where you had mentioned idle speeds in gear with props, etc. maybe Olered plans to point it in the right direction and put 'er down!  ;D
'79 CVZ-19 "convertible" w/Evinrude 175
'81 Scimitar
'89 CSS-19

Offline OleRed

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2010, 01:27:14 AM »
Eric, when people first started building the 383 "stroker" they used a stock 400cid crank, with the large diameter journals, the 350 block had to be line bored to accept that crank, and they used a 350cid piston with small skirts, two things they learned .. the skirts of the pistons didn't hold up well to the increased wall speed, and the large journals of the crank didn't like continuous high rpm either, resulting in high oil temp and often spun bearings ... but technology has changed, the new cranks are a small journal, fit's right in the 350 block, with just a little block clearence being performed,  and the hyperutectic pistons have teflon coated skirts to reduce friction against the cylinder wall. Like Steve said, the new style 383 "stroker" is a pretty tough motor, and the vortec head flow technology has awsome mid and high range power.  I am building the 383, actually a 389cid, out of another 2000 model 1 ton truck motor, thick cylinder walls, 4 bolt main, and the vortec heads, just like my other motor, bored .060 and milling the heads some, stainless steel valves, "Z" springs and retainers, the new pistons are a bit higher compression, probably 10.1 compression ratio, but can still run the 91 octane pump gas.

Secondly ... I'm running a 1.47 gear ratio in the Gen II drive alright, ya got to spin it to win it, but the technology in props today, you can accomplish more performance with a good prop now, than we used to by changing out a set of gears to change the rpm some.  I'm no prop expert, or mechanic either for that matter, but I'm adding picture of my prop here described as I understand it .. and like I said, I'm no expert, but this prop has been into the lab three times to get the most out of it, and it does really well, it pushes my boat into the low 70's at 5200 rpm.  My friends at the prop shop made me a drag prop that I ran some, it was a 14 1/4 X 19 4 blade that would Shoot my boat out of the hole, but it turned the motor 6200 rpm, it only run a speed of 62 mph, but that was in 1000 feet in 13 seconds from a dead stop, but it was a Blast out of the hole. 

One big issue proping out my boat was the modifications I made in the transom,  I moved the transom box back 5 inches, raised the "X" dimention almost 3 inches, and changed the rake of the transom to 8 degree's,  then added the nose cone, and it Finally came up to speed with the right prop.  I don't know if I will get much more speed with the new motor, but my goal for this new motor is to get the boat up on plane faster with a load of gas, 52 gallons, and 4 or 5 people on board ... thats where it's sluggish now, and I want it to run flatter at speed flat, not run with the nose so high,  when it leaves the water now, it lands stern first,  I want it to land flat, but the only way I get the speed out of it now is to trim it up that much.   We'll see?

 
1980 23ft Scimitar

Offline Rosscoe

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2010, 07:08:56 PM »
Well Red, you sure like some kind of expert...either that or you've done a lot of homework.
Ross
61 Surflite 1964 90HP Johnson project
67 V163 Bayflite Super Sport  1989 100HP Merc
67 V164 Bayflite 120HP
67 V174 Crestflite Rat Rod
71 V175 Crestflite 350ci -Jet
73 GT 160
84 CVX 17  83 115 Merc
88 CVX-23 350 Mag

Offline OleRed

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2010, 10:57:17 PM »
Got em in today !
Im gonna have to put the polishing wheel on em, they got a few scuffs in em during shipping
but not enough for me to complain .. I Like em.

1980 23ft Scimitar

Offline Hotwired

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2010, 11:16:15 PM »
holly molly!   :o where's my shades?
.. it is what it is ... and that is how it should be!
Miss Mayberry - 1964 Saberflite
The Ship - 1979 CV-27
Canon Ball Eyes - 1976 CV-16ssV8
Da ProJect Bote - 1977 CV-23
It Is What It Is...... CVX20

Offline Grinder

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2010, 09:51:28 AM »
WOW :o those look great!!!

Does the better half know you had them on the couch? Heh Heh Heh
Shaun
86 CVX 18

Offline CVX Fever

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2010, 10:25:08 AM »
BLING!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
1979 CVX18 "Back in Black"....someday!
1985 CVX18 " Only thing better than 2 CVX18's is 2 girlfriends!

Offline V153

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2010, 03:23:44 PM »
Suweet!!!
'81 C500_given away, bought back_75.1 mph
'81 Baja 15SS_140 Frankenrude_66.7 mph
'70 something SpeedCraft_(Allison 16R Clone)_69.0 mph
'79 CVZ19_given away
'71 V153_54.8 mph_wrecked


WALK TALL AND CARRY A BIG BILGE PUMP

Offline Rosscoe

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2010, 07:36:47 PM »

Does the better half know you had them on the couch? Heh Heh Heh
[/quote]

LOL!  Not only that but on pillows too!
Ross
61 Surflite 1964 90HP Johnson project
67 V163 Bayflite Super Sport  1989 100HP Merc
67 V164 Bayflite 120HP
67 V174 Crestflite Rat Rod
71 V175 Crestflite 350ci -Jet
73 GT 160
84 CVX 17  83 115 Merc
88 CVX-23 350 Mag

Offline Rich_V174SS

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2010, 08:10:48 PM »
Congrats to Red for winning the engine cover on ebay, and at the fantastic price of $2.25!

What a steal!
1967 V174 Crestflite SuperSport Modified
1987 Mercruiser 190 3.7LX/Alpha One

1970 V176 Swinger
1983 Mercury 115

Offline OleRed

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2010, 10:58:33 PM »
Yea ... the Fox laughed about putting the manifolds on the pillows, like a jewelry display, and the hat .. but Hey,  the pillows and the hat stay there all the time anyway, I just re-arranged them for the pic
and here's another set of parts on the way .. just couldn't help myself .. there were 5 sets on a 7 day Sale
Aluminum ProComp pressure molded castings, w/2.02 swirl polished stainless steel valves, hardened seats, hardened 7 degree locks and retainers, "Z" springs, screw in studs and guide plates, angle plug 64cc chambers, raised 190cc runners and Free shipping ... and Yes ... my boat budget is Busted, and I got Busted too, the Fox was home and the Manifolds came in, I may have to sleep in the shop for a couple nites if she's home when the heads get here.


1980 23ft Scimitar

Offline Hotwired

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2010, 11:33:38 PM »
I just hope she lets you drive a little next summer!!!  ;D
.. it is what it is ... and that is how it should be!
Miss Mayberry - 1964 Saberflite
The Ship - 1979 CV-27
Canon Ball Eyes - 1976 CV-16ssV8
Da ProJect Bote - 1977 CV-23
It Is What It Is...... CVX20

Offline OleRed

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2010, 11:46:31 PM »
Me Too Chris ... and Hey !  I think about it Often, you didn't drive the thing either, I totally forgot that when we were up there, but you can take your turn when we get back up there in August .. and if you don't remind me .. it's Your fault.  My thinker is mis-firing these days, and my memory is ... slipping, or something ... I forgot.
1980 23ft Scimitar

Offline Burnin Daylight

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2010, 09:12:54 AM »
I released a monster when I bought his other engine.
1981 INTIMIDATOR  "BURNIN DAYLIGHT"
1984 CV23  "HOT KNOTS"

Offline Hotwired

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2010, 11:33:39 AM »
Me Too Chris ... and Hey !  I think about it Often, you didn't drive the thing either, I totally forgot that when we were up there, but you can take your turn when we get back up there in August .. and if you don't remind me .. it's Your fault.  My thinker is mis-firing these days, and my memory is ... slipping, or something ... I forgot.

I was more that thrilled just to be along for the ride!  Between you and BurninDaylight you two should set up a ticket system and sell rides!  An then there was Bob and his pair of flyin' 21's!! You all would make enough to pay your way back and forth and then some! Yours and Barb's boats are going to be heavy attractions if you manage to make the meet.  Do not be ashamed to ask for gas money! It's memorable enough to ride in either and any of these boats let alone scream down the river at 70+mph!

.. it is what it is ... and that is how it should be!
Miss Mayberry - 1964 Saberflite
The Ship - 1979 CV-27
Canon Ball Eyes - 1976 CV-16ssV8
Da ProJect Bote - 1977 CV-23
It Is What It Is...... CVX20

Offline OleRed

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2010, 12:18:40 AM »
I released a monster when I bought his other engine.
and I'm Lovin it Barb .. Grrrrrr ...
and By the way ... Thanks for the Merry Christmas !
and it won't hurt my feelings  One Bit  it I can't keep up with your Intimidator on the lake ... Really !
really ...
        I think
1980 23ft Scimitar

Offline Hotwired

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2010, 10:47:08 AM »
What kind of performance increase to you think Barb will see with that engine?  I would expect she will be running about the same speeds you saw with the Scimitar.  But not running your drive with the nose cone, do you expect a slight decline.  Then again ... the Intimidator being slightly smaller??? ::) :-/
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 03:03:30 PM by Hotwired »
.. it is what it is ... and that is how it should be!
Miss Mayberry - 1964 Saberflite
The Ship - 1979 CV-27
Canon Ball Eyes - 1976 CV-16ssV8
Da ProJect Bote - 1977 CV-23
It Is What It Is...... CVX20

Offline wexrocks

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Re: Ok Guy's ...
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2010, 02:33:27 PM »
well, I guess ya figure the Scimitars do around 55 with 260hp (right?) and alot of people claim around 65 in the Intimidator with 260hp... sounds like that Intimidator may be quite a handful!!!  8)

I obviously am just speculating here, but with the 383 bottom end, these aluminum higher performance heads, and that EFI, I think OleRed may be heading back to the prop shop and pushing that thing substantially faster. I would have to think this combo would push a taller prop than the old motor, but again, I'm assuming. guess we'll all find out when the tuning and break-in are done.

Jees, Red... ya sure make it hard for the rest of us to build a Scimitar that will keep up!!!  ;D
'79 CVZ-19 "convertible" w/Evinrude 175
'81 Scimitar
'89 CSS-19