Author Topic: Red's Scimitar project (Read 19471 times)

friscoboater · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2013, 09:44:56 PM »

I love the new project. Whatever happened to that boat we looked at just north of Dallas a year ago? He was asking some stupid price.

Question. Is spraying the clear gel pretty easy? Then you just run it out?

OleRed · « **Reply #21 on:** February 13, 2013, 11:07:49 PM »

My friend Clay here in Okc went down and bought the boat on the straps, he's got it cleaned up and looking pretty good, building a new motor, a 406 sbc, bought a boner boat for an alpha one set-up, it will be coming to my shop when I get caught up for the glass work.
shooting the gelcoat on a boat is the easy part, when everything goes right, which is seldom, it's the sanding and polishing afterwards that is a real pain, takes me about 7 days of that.

fireman24mn · « **Reply #22 on:** March 11, 2013, 11:17:51 AM »

Red I see you just painted the white. Are you now going to do another coat of clear gel over it all?

Have you ever tried this?

When ever I paint flames or when I flaked the 18 I cleared it (Polyurethane clear not Gel) then let it dry completely. Sand everything flat and smooth, then one or 2 more coats of clear and it is nice and smooth with very minimal buffing.

OleRed · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2013, 01:29:39 AM »

it's a mint green actually, the camara makes it look white, I'm not going to shoot the clear gel over it, it buffed out pretty good as it is, single stage urethane. Gary came down from St Louis to look at it and he likes it just as it is. I set topside down on the hull, installed the tops and winglets so he could see what his new boat looks like, he was impressed. He brought his motor and drive, we pulled the pan, checked it out, done a little work on it, installed a new thunderbolt ignition and fired that baby up, ran it at speed for about 25 minutes to break in the new "flat tappet" cam and lifter set, it proved to be a runner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCVgI1O_w70&feature=youtu.be

Mark showed up with his CVX 20, then Barb, and we pulled the motor out of Marks boat, I Liked this deal ... they done all the work and I just pull the chain on the hoist

OleRed · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2013, 01:50:40 AM »

more pic's

dorelse · « **Reply #25 on:** March 13, 2013, 10:54:28 PM »

Just watched the motor video...that sounds amazing Red!

Don't know what a 'Flat Tappet' cam means, but whatever it is, I like it!

OleRed · « **Reply #26 on:** March 14, 2013, 01:01:29 AM »

Thanks Doran, it does sound good, great response.
This is a motor Gary had in his garage for 10 or 12 years, it's a 400cid small block chevy block with a 350cid crankshaft, longer connecting rods, shorter stroke than the 400, flat top pistons, 58cc chambered heads, we put a new cam in it for the boat, it's a flat tappet cam, rather than the roller cam I usually build. The flat tappet cams are the older style cams that require about a 20/25 minute break-in period running around 2000 rpm or so to start with to give the cam and lifters a chance to get aquainted and start the dance, that way they have a long lasting relationship.

If you don't spin a cam and lifter set up for a while on a first start, there is a good chance the lifters don't rotate on the cam properly causing the lobes of the cam to start a significant wear pattern, can even wear down a lobe or few in a few minutes just idling, causing a definate loss of power.

The roller cam and lifter sets are a different breed, they don't require much of a break-in period at all, just fire it up, wind it up a time or two, and go play.

WetRaider · « **Reply #27 on:** March 14, 2013, 08:28:21 AM »

I've watched that video a couple times - and every time Red gets ready to start that thing, I'm saying to myself "Watch your knees, watch your knees" ... I'd have been clumsy enough to have my kneecap whacked off by one of those pulleys.

OleRed · « **Reply #28 on:** March 14, 2013, 09:25:29 AM »

the camara shot makes it look a bit closer than it really is, kinda like taking a picture of a fish you caught at arms length, we only ran the motor in this clip for less than 30 seconds, just wanted to see it was going to run before we took it out and hooked it up to water

75starflight · « **Reply #29 on:** March 14, 2013, 10:58:42 AM »

Quote from: OleRed on March 14, 2013, 01:01:29 AM

Thanks Doran, it does sound good, great response.
This is a motor Gary had in his garage for 10 or 12 years, it's a 400cid small block chevy block with a 350cid crankshaft, longer connecting rods, shorter stroke than the 400, flat top pistons, 58cc chambered heads, we put a new cam in it for the boat, it's a flat tappet cam, rather than the roller cam I usually build. The flat tappet cams are the older style cams that require about a 20/25 minute break-in period running around 2000 rpm or so to start with to give the cam and lifters a chance to get aquainted and start the dance, that way they have a long lasting relationship.

If you don't spin a cam and lifter set up for a while on a first start, there is a good chance the lifters don't rotate on the cam properly causing the lobes of the cam to start a significant wear pattern, can even wear down a lobe or few in a few minutes just idling, causing a definate loss of power.

The roller cam and lifter sets are a different breed, they don't require much of a break-in period at all, just fire it up, wind it up a time or two, and go play.

Hey Red, how much do you charge for building one of those??? Might be kind of fun in the CVZ18 when I get her done in the next year or so.

Jerry · « **Reply #30 on:** March 14, 2013, 11:41:01 AM »

wow all these years, and I never gave my lifters "dancing lessons" 20 minutes is like 3 years of running. out of the box 10 grand. never saw "break-in instructions with a cam yet. Where did ya learn that?

carlsoncvx18 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 14, 2013, 04:45:08 PM »

The cam that I put in my motor came with very specific instructions on break in.

Upon start up do not idle run at 2500rpm or higher for 10 min allow to cool do all over again.

Good to go.

Jerry · « **Reply #32 on:** March 14, 2013, 06:00:25 PM »

I little hard to do with no cooling system

Burnin Daylight · « **Reply #33 on:** March 14, 2013, 06:22:16 PM »

Jerry, these engines are for boats not track rods. Different cams, RPMs, turning props not slick tires.

CVX Fever · « **Reply #34 on:** March 14, 2013, 06:58:47 PM »

I googled it and here is what i got out of it:

It sounds like it has to do with the fact that today's oils don't have zinc like they used to when Jerry was drag racing. That provided vital lubrication between the cam lob and flat tapper lifter during break-in of new motor. All new GM V8 marine & auto engines have roller cams so there isn't an issue with those motors.

The motor looks and sounds great Red! I like the boat accent color you put on the carb and valve covers. Mostly I am drooling over those exhaust manifolds. If you ever come across a pair of good used ones at a fair price get ahold of me.

fireman24mn · « **Reply #35 on:** March 14, 2013, 07:09:14 PM »

Every engine builder I know has to break in that type of cam. I have never not seen someone break one in.

Jerry · « **Reply #36 on:** March 14, 2013, 07:58:20 PM »

WOW!
a motor is a motor doesn't matter what it's in. I use oil and STP to assemble my motors. Do whatever you want to, but there is NOTHING that needs break in in a motor. If it brakes you didn't put it together right.

Burnin Daylight · « **Reply #37 on:** March 14, 2013, 08:09:38 PM »

Red didn't build that engine, the owner did. Gary and I bought 2 sets of those brand new Eddie Marine exhaust manifolds at the same time and had them shipped to Red. The other set is still boxed up in Reds shop waiting for us to build the engine for Hot Knots. Red found a pair of used ones for his stroker and I think they were still north of a grand. Google/search. EMI aluminum exhaust manifolds.

OleRed · « **Reply #38 on:** March 15, 2013, 01:31:21 AM »

Quote

Where did ya learn that?

I learned that when I learned to read the instructions that comes with most every new flat tappet cam I ever bought Jerry, and being raised by a master mechanic, listening to and watching, helping when he would let me, building my first sbc when I was sixteen with his quidance, a 283 punched out to 301 and turned 13.80's in the quarter when I done it right, a 1957 Chevy.

You know there is no comparison to the motors we are talking about here, and the motors you built back when, no coolong system, blocks filled with grout, or crude oil, cams that had such an over-lap that you could run a domed 13 to 1 pistom with and still start with a 12 volt battery, a 1000 rpm "idle" that sounded like the choke was pulled half way out, rompin stompin kick butt horse power, I know a little about that too, I've broke in a few motors between turn two and turn 3, and didn't run it twenty minutes on a stand, maybe a few 6000 bursts before dropping it in a frame, but I'm no novice, and I do know how to build a motor that will last a long time, and produce some respectable hp and perfornance for the boats in the crowd I hang with, an haven't had any complaints from the people running them.

OleRed · « **Reply #39 on:** March 15, 2013, 01:59:55 AM »

Quote

Red didn't build that engine, the owner did.

actually, Gary had the motor built for his 28ft scarab 10 or 12 years ago and it didn't work out as well as he expected, the cam installed in the motor had a power range from 2500 to 6500 rpm, he pulled the motor out of the boat and it's been sitting in his garage ever since, when he bought the scimitar, to put the motor in it, I suggested he put a different cam in the motor with a power range from 1200 to 5000 rpm and he did that, when he brought it down here we pulled the pan, inspected the rotating assy, lubed the cam with zink oil, put a splash shield in it, re-positioned the pick-up screen, put in a new dip stick tube so he could change the motor oil, set the valve train, installed the new manifolds, and a thunderbolt ignition system and fired it up. The manifolds I bought were not used, they had never been installed on a motor, but they were 2 years old, I bought them off ebay from a fellow that had pruchased them for a project he lost interest in.