Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: fireman24mn on November 01, 2018, 11:02:56 AM
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A few people already known but I bought the Orange CV-16 V8 from Joe. I will be doing a full rebuild with my daughter on it. It needs pretty much everything and is a total project. It will get all new wood/ composite not sure yet? It will be sprayed with purple flake and white or cream, not sure yet. The bow feels like it will need to be recored. The dash is cracked, along with many scrapes, gouges, etc. It will get a 305 or small 350 (its for my daughter remember) Or maybe a 383 with a limiter.
I got lucky and already picked up a project parts boat for the drive and all the other parts. Motor is bad. Parts boat is a 1993 Starcraft so I will have a gen 2 drive for the boat and all the updated things that go with it. It will be a similar build to what I did with the CV-23. I plan to blueprint the hull, it has gouges and cracks on it as well. Forgot to look to see if there is any hook in the 16 hull. If so not sure if I will take it out or not.
Wish me luck.
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More Pics
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First order of business has got to be filling in that massive hole in the transom. Looks like it would make a fine first craft. Have to admit, that is an interesting trailer its sitting on. Probably seem like a tiny rebuild compared to your 23. Hope to see progress, you'll likely be done with it before the water softens knowing your skills.
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Cool! Looking forward to it. I’m curious to see if a SBC will fit under that cover. These hills really can’t do much over 55. Safely anyway. Was always curious if a pad could be added. Is it going to be a race between you and Joe to see who gets done first??
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I agree Jason It will be interesting to see if or what I have to modify to fit the GM instead of the Ford. However there are some out there and the look pretty original. Nice thing about fiberglass it is easy to remove, replace and add more.
The hull/ floor looks like it has some deteriorated glass on it. I am guessing I will have to grind the ENTIRE inside of the hull and add a layer of glass to it.
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Can't remember his name, but he had a 350/Mercruiser, think he was talking 70 MPH ?
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Just found this on a web site. Looks like it is not much of a difference.
The charts will give you overall height, length and width of a fully dressed engine (oil pan, intake and carburetor, front accessory drives, exhaust). These measurements are general, and can vary depending on what equipment you or the factory installed.
Chevrolet 262-400
Dimensions: 26 inches wide, 28 inches long, and 27 inches tall
Weight: 575 pounds
Sump Location: Rear
Starter Location: Right
Ford 221-351W
Dimensions: 24 inches wide, 29 inches long, and 27.5 inches tall
Weight: 460 pounds
Sump Location: Front
Starter Location: Left
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Not sure if CV16SS's hulls were the same as CV16 outboards, but are you going to extend inter stake/chine ?
First two pictures are CV16 O/B hull's.
Second two are CVX16/C-500 hulls, one with inter stake/ chime extended.
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Greg, That was a different engine. it was a 283 or a 327 something not as common.
Mine has the more rounded hull bottom without the full strake. Any ideas on the numbers or handling on the longer strake and small pad area?
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The first two pictures above are a CV16 outboard, your hull should look like that.
Bottom two pictures are CVX16 or C-500 hulls, Doug's Buddy's in Florida, that extended there stake/ chines on there boats (last picture).
Don't know any one who has modified a CV16 hull ..
Wouldn't extended stake/chine act as a sort of pad ?
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Chris's CV16V8
His thread might still have more info.
I'll search for it ...
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Not sure of owner, saved picture from internet.
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Glastron/Volvo/Ford engine in a CV16V8
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Cheap Thrills 2 lives!
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Another CV16V8 off the internet
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Few more
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Vinyl engine cover looks cool !
1975 CV16V8 Jet
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7669.msg112910#msg112910 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7669.msg112910#msg112910)
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Chris's .. CV16ssV8 .... Mercruiser
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3374.msg39163#msg39163 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3374.msg39163#msg39163)
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That engine with information is misleading, the 221 - 302 is narrower than 351W
The only website I found it lists the information says
302 - 18 3/4”
351w - 21”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Don't get me wrong, I'm all about big power in little boats, but isn't this being built as a first boat for your daughter? I'd look at a merc 140 as the best option.
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Wow, cheep thrills 2 is really getting some miles on her... I knew I had to bring it to minn.... it will be real nice to see two cv-16 v-8’s come back to life.. as far as a first boat for a daughter being a v-8.. I’m sure that hull can handle it just fine.. and I’m sure Shawn will be a good teacher.. I think someone should go get Chris’ 27 to get that back on the water again also... Jeff?
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Yes it will be her first boat. However she has drove the 23 jet that had a 460 a lot. As well as the new 23 and drives our 43ft Trawler when we take it out. She probably knows more about the river and driving boats then half the other people that are out on a given weekend.
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Girls seem to be more responsible then boys … at any age …
More important .. does she like it ?
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Looks like a great project! Looking forward to watching your progress!
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Yes she likes it and is looking forward to it.
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1976 G/C emblem
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1976 G/C emblem
Does anyone have one of these emblems? If so would you be willing to pull it off so we could send it over to Europe so they could make replacements of them.
Thanks
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Does anyone have one of these emblems? If so would you be willing to pull it off so we could send it over to Europe so they could make replacements of them.
Thanks
looking through catalogs, looks like it was only used in 76 CV16V8, CV18SS, and CV19SS. 1975 is very similar. Probably be a tough find. I do have it drawn in CAD. Same graphic used on the T-shirts. Could maybe create something similar from that.
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It sounds like Chris has one he is looking.
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I got the donor boat all stripped. Pulled the engine and all drive components. Also pulled the steering, wiring harness and throttle controls. I was really surprised that the wiring harness was all intact and didn't look like there were any splices.
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Looks frosty? What kind of craft was it? Looks fairly modern actually.
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It was a 1993 Starcraft. Thats snow you see.
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From Mike's thread ..
Your going to remove foam blocks from under deck and core deck ?
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I have not looked to see what is under there yet. Either way I will be removing what is there and coring the deck. It is soft and sagging in spots.
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From pictures you posted of your deck, looks like it has foam logs glassed under deck.
Mine has deck support board in front and behind fuel tank, I sit on my deck with out any flex.
Maybe one or both of yours are missing ?
But from where a ski bar was attached on stern of my CV, one side of deck is half the thickness as the other side.
So could be same as your deck ?
Tried walking on it once, kind of like walking on wet ice .. Never tried that again .. LOL
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Maybe the CV16SS's didn't have the bow supports as they had the center console? My CV16SS does not have the bow supports that you have Gregg. Just the foam. I can walk/sit up there without much flex.
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Jason ..
Is center console supporting deck ?
Or just sitting under dash ?
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It supports it at the dash. Having additional support up front or directly in front of tank would be nice though.
Here is a better picture.
I'd assume the CV16V8 is the same.
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There is no support than I noticed on the deck.
Jason if you get a chance can you get me some measurements of your center console I am thinking I am going to add one.
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Interesting. Looks like the CV16V8 didn't have a center console.
yea. I can do that.
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I don't think they did either. However there is not much storage anywhere in the boat so just trying to gain a little more, where I can.
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1975 & 1976 CV16SS / V8 ... G/C P.I.G.
" Ski locker in bow (NA on V8) "
BUT ..
" Folding Stern Ladder (V8 only) "
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Could you post them .. so I can add them to CV16 seats, windshield, etc. thread.
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I am missing the ladder. I'm going to try and copy Joes and make a replica. I will also be adding the ski locker and the center console.
Just dropped the donor boat at the dump $120 to get rid of it. They stuck the bucket of the loader in it and I drove away pulling the trailer out from under it and home.
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Always thought the way the bow was done, with platform for fuel tank was weird, but now I see what they did.
It was to get the opening for ski locker, then modified for the outboard version.
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There is no support than I noticed on the deck.
Jason if you get a chance can you get me some measurements of your center console I am thinking I am going to add one.
Sorry this took so long to get done.....
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=8036.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=8036.0)
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No problem thanks
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Got some more work done on the boat this weekend with Kylee. Joe was over and helped me get it off the trailer and build the cradle.
In looking at the structure and design the boat lacks and real structural strength. The seats once bolted in actually become structural in my opinion. I am guessing there is a reason they only made these for 2 years.Besides it being a 16ft boat with a V8.
Sitting on the cradle with 2x6 supporting only the inner strake the hull was very flexible. I added another support to the 2nd strake and it stiffened the hull ALOT. After some discussion, I am pretty sure I will be coring the hull to add some strength and rigidity to the hull. You can see where the seat bolts have moved and oval-ed out the holes, one it completely broke. Joe had mentioned that he has even sheered a bolt off on his GT150 which has a similar hull set up. Hydrostream's have a similar size floor in the hull and their hulls were cored. I am guessing for the same reason I am going to core mine.
My plan is also to do a compete composite rebuild with no wood.
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Kylee actually helped a lot. She cut/ trimmed almost all the wood out of the boat. I would start doing something and she would stop me and ask if she could do it. So I watched a lot which was fine with me.
I'm guessing I'll get to do all the grinding though. Unless someone else wants to come over and I'll watch them do that too.
Stopped at Express to talk to them about my plans and another boat builder was there as well. Got a few different opinions to think about.
PS: Express Composites moved a few blocks from their old location.
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Got in about 6 hours of grinding this weekend. Only one or 2 left YAAAA.
If you look in the before picks you can see where the transom boards were not in contact with the entire transom. The outside corners had about 1 to 1 1/2 inches of filler on there. ON one side of the transom I took the air hammer and chilled off the old filler and then ground it. It definitely saved time. However you can see where it pulled loose some glass. So I will need to grind that all out now and get it back somewhat level before installing the new transom.
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Will you be using the same design for platform for bow tank / ski locker ?
Or design something different ?
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I'll be using the same design. However I will turn the tank so it lays fore and aft. I also plan on moving the fuel fill to the drivers side, as long as it works with what ever new tank I get. I will also be adding the center console/ ski locker.
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Back from Vacation and some training in FL. I also attended the Miami boat show a couple days. If you like boats you should try to get to this show.
I have been looking for a product to buy to bed the stringers, transom, etc to the hull. Miking cabsil and resin is no fun. Most of what I found was pretty expensive. At the show I talked to a number of different companies and found one that has a premixed bonding agent for a good price. It is essentially resin & cabsil pre mixed. I have a 5 gal bucket of it getting shipped to me. It is cheaper than a bucket of resin and bag of cab, shipping isn't cheap though.
Also got the composite boards to do the structure with and most of them are cut out already. I am hoping to get started with the the floor, transom and stringer installation in the next week of so.
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Stopped at express today and my core bond showed up the other day. Going to start the rebuild process soon.
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Finally getting back to working on the boat. First I made a rack to store and dispense the fiberglass from.
I will also need to fill the hole in the transom. I will be installing a Merc where the Volvo was. I got a sheet of glass and cut 4 layers of biax and wet them all out, rolled them with the fin roller to get all the air, and excess resin out. The glass on the transom is 1/4 thick the 4 sheets of biax wetted ended up at about an 1/8. Which should be about perfect. Because that will leave room to add additional layers in the inside and outside getting larger with each layer. I just held it up to the transom and traced the shape onto it then cut it out with the jig saw. The holes I will fill with a cabisol/ glass mix.
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How many layers will you add to the inside and outside? 2 + 2 ? Will it be a biax like 1708, cloth, or a mix? Has anyone tried to make a saw tooth type cut to the original cutout, then fit a patch so the length of any straight line is less than say 1.5" long. On car stuff I've done, straight lines separating glass components were always a weak spot prone to crack. I suppose the transom wood or equivalent prevents that? Good to see progress.
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I will add another 3-4 layers on the inside and outside until I get up to the 1/4 inch thickness. Both biax and csm. Once it is layered with the other layers of glass and the the wood/ Coosa board is added for strength I am not worried about it cracking. I filled in the hole on the 23 when I moved it up and haven't had any problems.
On my 23 I just put a couple layers of glass and then filled it with Kitty Hair filler.
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Have you thought about adding 2 stringers
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Where would I add 2 stringers? And why?
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I got the inside of the transom hole filled last night. First was the blank I made then biax, csm, biax, csm each getting bigger as I went out. I also has some low areas on the transom from grinding that I had to fill. They were from removing the filler with an air hammer. It fractured the glass and I had to grind a lot of it out in order to get to good glass. I will now smooth and level the transom area where the drive mounts and add more glass if needed.
There is not much of the transom that is actually flat.
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I don't know where you would add the other stringers. It looks like this boat only came with one and the front motor mount boxes don't extend back to the transom. Just trying to figure out how you can strengthen the boat up while you're in there...
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To Much Information .. But you asked Rich .. LOL
The CV16 hull was designed back in the 1960's, not sure by who.
By late 60's early 70's the copyright / patent was off and at least six Mfg. were using the hull design for there boats.
G/C, Sidewinder, Weindt, etc. all used this hull with different deck designs.
There is still an active group of Sidewinder owner, and some have problems with the outboard version cracking at the rear of inner chime.
Not sure if it's from bad design, bad glass layup or cracks easily when you hit something while running … or even a combination of all.
The box formed by the motor mounts on the CV16SS and V8 would be right at the weak spot on the outboard version and I haven't found any info on anyone having problems with it. Although I don't think any other company made an I/O version of this hull, and if they did, they didn't make to many.
Red line in below picture is where CV16 outboards crack inner chime.
Second picture shows where motor mount box would support hull in that location.
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My plan is to core the bottom of the hull. I will also be glassing in the seat bases to make them part of the hull structure. Last will be to foam fill every where that I can.
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As Joe is moving along on his build. And with all the free time while at home during all that is going on the boat is back in at the garage. Got the transom boards all cut out. Then cut and laminated some others together for the center stringer. The front fuel platform, kick panel and floor are all cut out as well. I will be cutting out all the engine stringers and fitting them today. Pictures coming. Should be able to start glassing everything together next week.
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Pretty much all the material for the bottom half of the hull is cut out. We installed the center stringer and rear bulk head the other day. I added extra to the bulkhead and tied it in the stringer. The center stringer is 3 layers of 3/8 composite laminated together. The composite boards already had 2 layers of glass to start with. Needless to say it's strong.
For the fillet (pb mix) I bought a premixed bucket of it. It is way better and so much easier to use, basically same cost minus shipping because no one local had it. Worth the savings in my opinion because it sucks mixing resin and cabsol. I then added slow hardener to give me time to lay the fiberglass. I prefer to do it all at once because you get a smooth transition with no sharp spots or air pockets.
Here is a few pics and a link to the video. I will probably be doing videos from here on out. Plus some pics as well. Follow me on FB and on Youtube if you would like.
https://youtu.be/20bz-wghCl8
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Nice work … Great video !
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If possible can you guys subscribe to my Youtube page. I am trying to reach another threshold and need subscribers to do so. Thanks
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Looks great Shawn & Kiley. Keep up the good work. Yes that stuff is great to work with.
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Done !
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Subscribed!
That must be the material you got from Fargo?
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Yes it is. I really like using it.
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Got the transom installed last night. Hoping to get engine stringers and floor in today.
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The floor, transom and stringers are in.
I put the engine stringers and the 2 small floor sections in first. Then the next day we did the floor.
I doubled up the engine stringers and put a layer of 1808 up and over the top of them to add more strength. I also filled in the lower strake in the hull again for more strength. The 2 small engine stringers were laminated together before we set them to the hull.
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I bought a cheap spatula at the dollar store it worked great for applying the bedding compound / PB around the floor.
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Good looking weights. Newer technology than the ones we used.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/stones.jpg)
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Subscribed to your YouTube.
What material are you using for the stringers and such? I saw where you said you would not use wood but I didn't see where you called out the material you are using.
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Does anyone have one of these emblems? If so would you be willing to pull it off so we could send it over to Europe so they could make replacements of them.
Thanks
That looks like an easy job for a 3D printer.
Probably be easy to sand cast in aluminum too.
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I am using a product from Spaceage Synthetics. It is like Coosa board just made by a different company. The guys over in Germany just reproduced the emblems.
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Looking good!
Seems like the composite stuff is pretty popular around here, for stringers and such. I guess I'll have to try it on my next project!