Author Topic: Early CV16 questions ... (Read 21163 times)

Hyperacme · « **on:** January 02, 2015, 01:04:38 AM »

Ed's restoring a 1970 or 1971 Apricot CV16 ...
Take a look at the data plate, Serial number reads "2410 dot B".
Must be a very early model, maybe one of the first built in 1970 ?

His CV had no interior in it when he got it, so I showed him some pictures of mine.
His is very different ...
Mine has the seat bases screwed to the floor with "scrap" aluminum peices, then seat backs are held to bases with four bolt, then sides of seats are bolted to side of deck.
Red circles are the slots seat backs bolt to deck ...

His has no holes in side of deck for seats to bolt to deck, just an aluminum channel.
Red circle in picture ...

My side vinyl trim peices staple to wood boards that are screwed to side of deck, with two aluminum channels at rounded corners in the rear.

His has one long aluminum channel that runs the entire length of deck.

Best pictures I have of what I think is an orginal CV interior ...
The seat bases in this CV were glassed to the floor, not sure if some one did that or G/C did it ?

Some pictures from G/C ad's ...

Any one care to guess how seat backs were attached to deck sides ?
And ...
What was used in side vinyl trim ?
Did they just put wood in there and not screw it to deck sides ?

Dave, was your CV like mine ?
Don, was your Carlson done like that ?

Oldfishguy · « **Reply #1 on:** January 02, 2015, 08:58:42 AM »

Gregg

Have Ed look under the dash on the port side; my understanding a lot of our boats have a "build" date under clear resin there. It is on the backside, almost opposite of the "CV16" emblem. Easy to see with the seats out, I think you would have to be Houdini to see it with the seats installed. Here is mine, I stumbled on it while doing some rewiring in the rebuild.

So it is a November of 1972 build, which matches the hull ID, but the hull carried over to a 1973 model for color and interior.

With the ".B" serial ending in Ed's, that is interesting. Anybody's guess, but probably some form of a prototype.

My seats are bolted in like yours Gregg; two lag bolts through the upper sidewall on each side and then screwed to the deck with four brackets per seat set. That aluminum channel in Ed's would have been a pain to build, no wonder the factory went away from it.

As far as the green CV16 with the seats fiberglassed in, I would wonder if that wasn't done when somebody put that ski pole in. (

) Just to beef up the entire floor a bit more for all that added stress.

Hyperacme · « **Reply #2 on:** January 02, 2015, 09:43:02 AM »

Thanks for the reply Dave ...
Do your side vinyl trim pieces have wood or something between them and deck side ?
And are screwed to deck ?

His CV is in a shop getting new wood and gel, he'll see it in Feb.
The shop that's redoing it will bring it to the local boat show ...

He would like to restore it as close to original as possible ...

Jason · « **Reply #3 on:** January 02, 2015, 09:46:19 AM »

Very interesting. I would also guess some type of prototype. I am going to look behind my cv-16 badge to see if I also have the build date code there. Didn't the hull ID on the transom start in 74 for all boats? It might even be that every boat build after the hull ID number requirement would no longer have the serial number or need for a build date. I am willing to guess my 74 does not have the serial number tag in the fiberglass that Dave's has. Otherwise my 74 is built just like Gregg's. It does seem as though Glastron was experimenting with some ideas yet on Ed's boat. It's also hard to tell what is "Glastron's" work and what has been modified by owners previous to Ed.

If we could only ask Art......

Hyperacme · « **Reply #4 on:** January 02, 2015, 10:12:22 AM »

My 1972 V-156 had the S# tag glassed in under stern, plus a plate behind dash.
With no S#'s on stern.
My 1976 CV has no plate or tags under deck, just S# on stern.
Though it has a plate on control mounting panel and a plastic rating plate in lower dash.

Ed's almost done with the motor ...

Oldfishguy · « **Reply #5 on:** January 02, 2015, 01:00:37 PM »

Gregg

For Ed's boat, not sure if it was the same but here goes:

The side wall trim pieces appear to be 1/8 plywood wrapped in the Apricot vinyl, stapled on to the plywood. Then to attach it to the sidewalls there are blind studs every 2.5 feet sticking through and attached on the back side of gunnel. These studs also hold the bendable clamps so loose wiring is held up out of sight in the gunnels. Not a great design though for taking apart as the blind nuts would turn under the vinyl and you can't grab the head. (The best solution I found was a small vise grip utilized to grab the end of the bolt under the gunnel and start the nut off)

I took my seats out for the winter and stored in my warm basement, as the boat sits in an unheated dry storage. My thoughts are this old vinyl would become brittle pretty quick in our elements. You can see the two studs on the top and the four aluminum mounting plates on the bottom.

Sidewall gunnel where seat stud is mounted:

Close up of seat bottom:

The outside of the seat bottoms are overcoated with a wall paper material to make it look like a wood grain. (I don't think it ever fooled anybody though). The seats are sturdy though and when attached don't budge from there position.

As far as the hull numbers starting in 1974, well this is on my rear transom, right side:

Needless to say, a lot of variations in the build process that first decade or so. I think in many ways each boat that came off the line were there own individual pieces of artwork done by craftsmen as best as they could.

I think Ed's boat will be a stunner on the water, pure white with the bright apricot trim. Then with the bigger motor he'll be knocking on the door of 50 mph.

Looking forward to seeing it.

David

atomant · « **Reply #6 on:** January 02, 2015, 01:03:35 PM »

Thanks for the help Gregg!
Dave, I am aware of how glastron hid secondary serial numbers..all sorts of places, so I knew to examine every square inch of that hull inside and out. I found no other tags etc. I even searched under the bow deck, and everywhere else, for clues of where an ID plate might have been riveted etc., I seen not a trace!
Jason, though rough, this hull is as pure as it gets, all that aluminum channel is glastron correct (original). That double channel where the seats butt, one piece held the horizontal vinyl and then they added a larger size, short strip channel, and from my observation, that channel was holding the vinyl of the main seat frame itself. I told Gregg, yes I believe the main frame vinyl was fastened there to support the upper portion of seat, and I think they actually sewed the rest of the main seat frame vinyl off of that flap held by that secondary channel. My hull shows no signs of any wood being between the vinyl and the face/hull of that "arm rail padding" as greggs is..i have no holes in that area where wood was fastened. Also the wood for the helm control..there is only one set of holes in that board where the Johnson controller was fastened (no other controller was bolted there) and like-wise for the transom, the only holes in transom is where the Johnson 135 was installed. So I feel very strongly that this is also the original motor package, however, this motor package is a '73...go figure! Thanks All !!

atomant · « **Reply #7 on:** January 02, 2015, 01:24:09 PM »

Dave, I am beginning to believe you are correct...it's whatever they put "out the door" that particular day, and they probably changed design frequently as they progressed. Again, I have ho holes through the face of the gunnel rail. I do have wood on the back side of gunnels where the vinyl was stapled. And where you mentioned about the control cable straps, my straps are there, but they were fastened through the face of gunnel rail (behind the vinyl) with the countersunk head screws and those countersunk vinyl washers behind screw head. You might be able to see that in one of greggs pics..look just aft of the helm control panel and you'll see 2 shiny spots in the gunnel rail..thats the screw heads and washers. Other than that, no other holes in gunnel rail.

Ed

Jason · « **Reply #8 on:** January 02, 2015, 02:27:31 PM »

I was wrong about 1974 being the first year for the HIN. Looks like all boats built after November 1st 1972 were required to have a HIN number. So Dave, seeing how your's was built in Nov 1972 it must be one of the first! Cool how your serial number matches your HIN. 00062.

75starflight · « **Reply #9 on:** January 02, 2015, 04:03:44 PM »

Quote from: atomant on January 02, 2015, 01:24:09 PM

Again, I have ho holes through the face of the gunnel rail. I do have wood on the back side of gunnels where the vinyl was stapled. And where you mentioned about the control cable straps, my straps are there, but they were fastened through the face of gunnel rail (behind the vinyl) with the countersunk head screws and those countersunk vinyl washers behind screw head. You might be able to see that in one of greggs pics..look just aft of the helm control panel and you'll see 2 shiny spots in the gunnel rail..thats the screw heads and washers. Other than that, no other holes in gunnel rail.

Ed

After reading your quoted section above Ed and looking that the pictures of you gunnels, its looking like you have an aluminum rail that is pop-riveted to the gunnel rail that pretty much goes around the cockpit area. It looks like there is vinyl remnant behind it that has been cut. Now, now you said there is wood that the vinyl was stapled to. So IMO

Looking at this, the vinyl was just pulled tight with some padding behind it and then stapled to the wood on the back side of the gunnel. This is the same way my corners are done from the factory on my CVZ-18.

I am also guessing by this information that the seats were just bolted to the floor and the extra vinyl was connected to the gunnel rails by the aluminum rail that is mounted below the continuous one above.

Oldfishguy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 02, 2015, 04:37:04 PM »

Ed

I think 75 Starflight has got it about right with the side upholstery. Close to what they used a year later.

I think you have a 1971 CV16, the first year that hull was used from what I can tell. With a nice major modification, a windshield was added. Maybe the windshield was an option from the factory or it was put on by a dealer later. Seeing as your engine is original that means it sat at the factory for a few years or more than likely at a dealership for a few years as a carry over. As is now, dealerships hang the engines on. The brand of engines varied from dealership to dealership. So my guess is your boat sold in 1973 and the Johnson was hung on and a windshield was added. It is not a 1972 model, as on the front console they added that year a three way light switch, I'm not seeing that on your panel.

Definitely an early CV, and one of the lucky ones to find an owner to bring it back.

Looking forward to the pictures.

David

http://www.classicglastron.com/71gl-carlson-index-web.html

Hyperacme · « **Reply #11 on:** January 02, 2015, 04:39:13 PM »

I did a little reading about the time line of Glastron / Carlson / Molinari ...
Carlson's were built in Garden Grove, but when did the Anaheim factory start production ?
A picture of the Anaheim factory appears in the 1972 brochure.

The 1970 brochure only has Carlsons, the 1971 brochure has pictures of the CV16 & CV21 but only a drawing of the CV19.

Some history ...

http://www.olered.com/Art_Carlson.html

Glastron Re-Float 1956 - 1975 ...

http://www.cgoamn.com/5.html

atomant · « **Reply #12 on:** January 02, 2015, 04:54:09 PM »

OK guys, I pretty much have some of this figured out. I just forwarded pics to Gregg to post...I have the original first title to this boat...it states that this is a 1970 Glastron. The thing that bugged me about it was that I thought they used a 1973 hull ID because the title also stated the Hull ID was 1353SL73M...well, turns out that's the model number of the motor, and they got it wrong because it should have read 135(E)SL73M...The ID plate was hidden behind the controller so they used the engine model number instead. Apparently guys, this IS a 1970 CV! I forwarded title pics to Gregg.

Hyperacme · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2015, 05:13:43 PM »

Going through parts catalogs ...
Found this ...

atomant · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2015, 06:08:54 PM »

...an 75starflight, that is exactly what I observed when "going over" this boat, I catch on quickly to what people were thinking when they built something. I told Gregg that I think that was also a design flaw, that gunnel rail vinyl was nearly gone, but the dash pad, the glove box pad..things with wood behind them, still had (some) structure...I think moisture would build up behind that vinyl and then just lay in the bottom because it was tucked in an up position on the back side of gunnel...AND, that aluminum channel that runs the length, it is actually a series of pieces...like they'd cut a few and then rivet vinyl in place, and so on down the line. I studied this boat very closely! The guy that is doing my hull, he has pictured and numbered everyone of those pieces so they go back in exact location.

Jason · « **Reply #15 on:** January 02, 2015, 11:26:41 PM »

I think Dave's got it right. Your boat was probably built in 70 or 71 and then sat around for a couple years (We'll just say the Glastron headquarters show front lobby!) then boat was sold off in 73 with a new mounted at that time.

I have learned to never trust whats on the title. No one verifies anything and you pretty put what you want on it. Even my title had the wrong HIN number on it.

Hyperacme · « **Reply #16 on:** January 03, 2015, 02:31:45 PM »

My thoughts on year built ...

It had to take a few month's to design a hull, make the molds and start producing them, and Art had to do that for three brand new designs (CV16 , CV19 & CV21) .
The brochures had to be done three to six months before boat shows in Jan. - Feb ...
So maybe pictures for brochures were taken in Aug. - Nov.. of 1970 for the 1971 model year.
Pictures in the 1971 brochure of CV16 & CV21 are actual boats, so they had to be built in 1970 to be in a photo shoot.
The CV19 was just a drawing, so I'm thinking it had not yet been built (as of Aug. - Nov. 1970) ...
So ...
There was no CV16 for the 1970 model year, but boats produced in late 1970 for the 1971 model year ...

More guessing on your CV ... LOL

The serial number could be your CV was the 240th CV built in 1970 and was Apricot which was the " B " ...
The " A " would have been "Green" and " B " would have been " Apricot " ...
With such a small number it has to mean something like that ...
Then again ... It could mean something totally different ...

We had a thread going with G/C serial numbers, they seem to be an order to them until some one posted there number that was totally different then numbers posted.

The factory was said to have burned down and all records were lost, but also have heard there was never a fire reported to have happened at there factory ?

Thoughts on motor ...

Original owner could have ordered your CV with an 85 HP motor and found it wasn't fast enough, so got a 115 HP motor a few years latter .
OR ...
He hit a submerged object and destroyed his lower drive, but drove it back to launch with out an impeller for cooling and melted down his power head, so it would have cost more to rebuild his old motor then to buy a new 1973 motor.
OR ..
Motor was a "Lemon" and OMC decided to just replace it after dealer put many part's and hours of repairs / trouble shooting into motor.

There are so many things that could have happened, and we will never know for sure, unless you find the original owner, and the chance's of that are slim to none !

Who knows .. LOL

Jason · « **Reply #17 on:** January 03, 2015, 04:45:30 PM »

Well I dragged myself under the bow of the 74 CV16SS and found that I do also have a build date sticker. Was not in the exact same spot as Dave's but is the same format. Hard to read but the serial number is the same as my HIN and the build date was Oct 1973

Hyperacme · « **Reply #18 on:** January 03, 2015, 05:03:23 PM »

Jason
Is it on the board behind the dash board ?

Oldfishguy · « **Reply #19 on:** January 03, 2015, 07:15:26 PM »

Quote from: Jason on January 03, 2015, 04:45:30 PM

Well I dragged myself under the bow of the 74 CV16SS and found that I do also have a build date sticker. Was not in the exact same spot as Dave's but is the same format. Hard to read but the serial number is the same as my HIN and the build date was Oct 1973

Nice!

So tell me Jason, it is kind of comfortable laying between the seats and kind of curling up along the kick board, wasn't it?

. That is, until you try to drag yourself out of that coffin corner.

Next time your down there look over the top of the kick board under the deck of the bow. You have to get beyond mid chest over to see everything properly. I found a like new amp for a previous stero system (8 track I bet), a short paddle, and an old orange life jacket. Well worth the journey.