Author Topic: Timi time  (Read 32001 times)

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Offline still_fishin

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2018, 01:03:14 PM »
Somebody on your area has to have a tank out if a junk boat in the 25-30 gallon range. 

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Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2018, 01:18:23 PM »
Would guess G/C did research and testing on placement, size, etc. of tank.   Brochure list 27 gal. tank.
Steve said on CV16's the bow mounted fuel tank is off set to one side, to compensate for battery on driver side / stern.
On our 90 mile river run's, Jeff (CVX18 / 27 gal. / 350 Mercruiser) can make entire trip without refueling, not sure how much he has left though.
 

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2018, 03:12:17 PM »
Would guess G/C did research and testing on placement, size, etc. of tank.   Brochure list 27 gal. tank.
Steve said on CV16's the bow mounted fuel tank is off set to one side, to compensate for battery on driver side / stern.
On our 90 mile river run's, Jeff (CVX18 / 27 gal. / 350 Mercruiser) can make entire trip without refueling, not sure how much he has left though.

I know a CV-23 with 460 and jet and 50 gallons. You are cutting it very close I figured I had a gallon or 2 left maybe!
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Full Resto complete
1976 CV-16 V8 Resto in progress
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline Jason

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2018, 09:07:36 PM »
Tank is offset on cv16ss as well but battery is also on port side. Figured the offset was to offset drivers weight.
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2018, 11:25:44 PM »
I decided to finish the stringers, fit the floor, plan to foam, and run new fuel line under the floor.  Not sure what tank I may use, the 55 gallon remains a possibility.  I won't know until the top comes back in and I can see what room is available.  Outside stringers are 2x6, inside is three layers of 19/32 play sandwiched together.  Transom is now 2.100" thick.  Tabbing is complete, except for transom to new floor.  Floor peices are also 19/32, just received 1st coat of resin/acetone.  I plan one layer of cloth on bottom of floor, then install it.    Hoping to flip this weekend and work the bottom flat.  Fitting all the wood peices really takes some time to massage everything into fitting well.  Hoping the bottom goes quickly, and the top can start receiving attention.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Online thedeuceman

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2018, 06:02:18 AM »
Nice looking/fitting stringers


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Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
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Offline nes-cv23

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2018, 06:21:52 AM »
When I do the braces for the stringers I put a hole for water to get out, we all know what trapped water does.. or are you going to spray foam in it all to seal everywhere? 
84 ssv-151, 76 cvx-16 ss, 77cvx-20 jet, 90 CSS-19, 78 cv-23, 77 gt-150, 2-78 cvx-16, 79cvx-16, 79 cvz-18,  73 cv-16, 74 cv-18, 89 219 Futura, 76 gt-150 jet, 79 cv-23, 02 Gx-225,  1980 intimidator = done!.. 79 hvp175   Now  done?

Offline Madbohunk

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2018, 06:59:07 AM »
Great job Mike . I need to stop by soon or you’ll be done !!! Must be some late nites !!!
1979 CVX-16

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2018, 09:19:27 AM »
If you really want to try and keep water out put a coat of gel on everything.  Glass and resin itself will absorb some moisture. If you cover it with gel it will make it waterproof. This is what I was told by Express Composites.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Full Resto complete
1976 CV-16 V8 Resto in progress
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline 75starflight

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2018, 10:02:34 AM »
If you really want to try and keep water out put a coat of gel on everything.  Glass and resin itself will absorb some moisture. If you cover it with gel it will make it waterproof. This is what I was told by Express Composites.

Good information! I may have to do that on my CVZ stringers and transom before put the floor in.
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2018, 10:10:38 AM »
I'm still torn with the "seal it solid" or add drain channels.  Since no belly tank, and I'm going to fully foam in, I'm swaying towards just sealing it all.  Gelcoat has some porosity, which is how bottom blisters occur.  At least that is my understanding of hull blisters from the ole interweb. I also considered undercoating, rhino liner, or lizard skin before foaming.  It got me thinking, my brothers Ranger is two peices and solid foam compartments with no drain space.  I plan to do a deck finish inside instead of carpet, just too hard to keep clean.  Essentially all water that gets in on top will run to bilge.      Bob, you're welcome anytime, just give me a ring.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline Scott in nh

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2018, 02:49:26 PM »
I'm still torn with the "seal it solid" or add drain channels.  Since no belly tank, and I'm going to fully foam in, I'm swaying towards just sealing it all.  Gelcoat has some porosity, which is how bottom blisters occur.  At least that is my understanding of hull blisters from the ole interweb. I also considered undercoating, rhino liner, or lizard skin before foaming.  It got me thinking, my brothers Ranger is two peices and solid foam compartments with no drain space.  I plan to do a deck finish inside instead of carpet, just too hard to keep clean.  Essentially all water that gets in on top will run to bilge.      Bob, you're welcome anytime, just give me a ring.

Outside the stringers and under the front floor of my CVZ I fully foamed and did not add drains. I am running a belly tank, so I did include a drain there, but it will be sealed with a transom style drain and plug that will only come out if I determine water has found a way in or if I have a fuel leak.
Pretty much all of the stringer rot I have seen on boats seemed to start with water getting to the stringer through drain holes.
I arrived at this solution in a similar way as you did - pondering Boston Whalers with just fiberglass and foam, no cavities, no drains.
If water cannot get in then there is nothing to let out.
I am only using gelcoat in the engine compartment for looks and to help keep it clean.

Offline nes-cv23

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2018, 04:58:54 PM »
My two cents again.... I think you need to put some kind of drain in to let any water back out.. even when I cut apart the jet boat for project gt-jet which was completely foamed in, it was waterlogged... I do seal every piece of wood with sealer of some kind either jell or resin. If your going to foam it in you can lay a 1/2” pvc pipe in the bottom with holes in it to let it out.    Put the holes on the bottom so the foam doesn’t fill it up.
84 ssv-151, 76 cvx-16 ss, 77cvx-20 jet, 90 CSS-19, 78 cv-23, 77 gt-150, 2-78 cvx-16, 79cvx-16, 79 cvz-18,  73 cv-16, 74 cv-18, 89 219 Futura, 76 gt-150 jet, 79 cv-23, 02 Gx-225,  1980 intimidator = done!.. 79 hvp175   Now  done?

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2018, 06:58:37 PM »
My previous idea was to saw a 1" PVC in half and make a channel with slots to let water out, but thought that would just provide a channel to let water in should the bilge fill up.  Say heavy rain and auto bilge pump failed while in the water.  Happened two years ago at TI.  The new closed cell foam is supposed to not absorb any water unlike the open cell that was used on our boats back in the day.  Now the idea of having a bilge plug on that cavity forward of the engine bilge is a neat idea.  I can have it sealed, and open when I would like to check for water.  Thanks for the ideas guys.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #54 on: February 22, 2018, 09:31:11 AM »
I thought about putting in some sort of drain system in the 23 when I redid it. Thought about PVC or even blowing up the long skinny gallons then piping them once the foam set. I decided not to and filled the cavities full with foam. I filled them most of the way before putting the floor on so I could make sure to get them as close to 100% filled with no gaps or voids.

My thought is that many of these boats lasted 20-30 years some longer. Mine will always be covered when not in use and will be better taken care of then many of our boats were. The boats that were well cared for are still good and still on the original wood they were built with and they didn't have any drains. We have seen how things were installed and built.

In the last pic you can see all the X marks with tape. These are holding in the plugs I cut out with a hole saw. I would pour in one hole wait until I see it come out the next hole and then plug it quick so it would push past. Then I would use a wire to determine how far away from the next hole the foam stopped expanding. Then depending on distance I would cut another hole and fill in that one. It worked good and I am pretty sure my floor is pretty close to 100% filled.  I used the same stuff Ole Red used. It is the secure set that they used for setting telephone, and fence posts.  I did also use some foam from Express but most of it was secure set.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Full Resto complete
1976 CV-16 V8 Resto in progress
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline Chippy

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #55 on: February 22, 2018, 09:40:38 AM »
Firstly I so respect people who have the ability to do this work themselves! My hat goes off to you.  When I took my CVZ to a the shop that does a lot of repair work he showed my the new Four Winn’s boats that had foam in them stating he has been fixing rotten stringers as water still gets held in the new foam. This is why I took the path of composit stringers with no foam and good drainage. He also stated water tests afterward he really noticed no difference without the foam. Just Passing on this info.

Offline Scott in nh

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #56 on: February 22, 2018, 10:09:16 AM »
I had seen fireman24mn's method before and using it I filled the two areas outside of the stringers, and the area froward of the front bulkhead, with as much foam as possible before installing the floor.
Because the center remains open for the fuel tank, the flooring sections are smaller and more manageable on a CVZ. This allowed me to pour the final layer of foam and then quickly glue and screw the floor down. This way no holes/plugs were needed.

Chippy, the way you did it is great and likely superior to wood!
I would just say that factories building family pleasure boats, like G/C and Four Winns, spent zero effort keeping water out in the first place or sealing wood fully against water migration, and little to no effort properly locating the drains so that the compartments completely drain. That is why they rot regardless whether the foam is holding water or not.
I am extremely confident there will be no way for water to get to my stringers, transom or where I foamed, and my repairs will certainly outlive me.

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #57 on: February 22, 2018, 04:02:01 PM »
     I have to admit, when I did my CVZ, the belly tank bottom is flat and creates a space(drain channel) below it, so in that case I did leave a drain channel.   Now for the Timi, it is completely closed compartment bow to bulkhead at bilge.  This is the main reason for considering a different build strategy for the Timi.  I also think it will make it quieter and more secure since the foam adds a bit of structural rigidity to the project.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline Cali special

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2018, 07:52:30 AM »
No drains

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Timi time
« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2018, 09:05:50 AM »
      That had to be super difficult to mount the stringers upside down like that.      Just kidding, looks very similar.   My center stringer is a bit overkill, but I shaped it to fit the center piece into the void left in the keel runner.   My CVZ did not have the same channel.  It ends just before the bulkhead underneath.  I assume to be more stable in turns?
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude