Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ChfBrianB on September 02, 2011, 12:17:21 PM
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Well... It has begun.
I took the boat out on the water last week to give it it's first trial run. It ran like crazy until i noticed some white smoke coming from under the engine cover. Needless to say, it had pushed one of the loose frost plugs out (that we had tried to get back in without pulling the engine) and got a little hot at the risers. I shut it down and got it diagnosed fairly quickly. I'm thankful that the bilge pump was working because a missing frost plug can pump a lot of water into a boat in just a few minutes.
So, we put the plug back in with my finger and idled back to the ramp. Ugh...
So, that was my trial run with the boat, but I'm happy with the motor, so here we go on the restoration...
I've taken the interior out and the carpet. The floor is shot, so I've removed one of the sections of flooring. I also ordered The classic book "Runabout Restoration" by Jim Anderson (it's listed on the national cgoa site).
The largest challenge that I'm facing now is that the book says to re-do the floor and stringers with the top-deck still attached. My problem is that the open bow layout is molded from the top deck, so I cant get to the floor in the front of the boat. Also, the rear seats next to the engine cover are part of the top deck, so I don't know how to get under those to do the floor back to the transom without taking those out...
Any ideas?
I'll keep the pictures coming as we progress...
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My '64 Skiflite has the same problem for working on the floor, the seats are molded in on the top.
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The best way to handle this is to do the floor in two sections, once the back half is done you can separate the hull and deck. If you separate it first and remove the floor in one piece the hull loses its shape and the deck will not fit properly when you try to re-assemble them. While there are several ways to maintain the hull shape the easiest solution is the two-part replacement. I can tell you from experience it is the best way to keep the hull where it should be and I can show you in pictures what happens if you don't...wait forget I said that those pictures don't exist...As a matter of fact they never did...yea..yea they never did...
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I agree with doing it in sections, but I still have to remove the top because my seats straddle two of the (above-floor) stringers. At least, regardless of their condition, I can use the fiberglass stringer shells to pattern their shape. And while I'm at it, I'll make the drain holes through them larger and glassed (or at least resined/epoxied) inside. I'm sure it'll help also that this is a smaller boat.
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GREAT to see ya diggin' right in !
What is it with you and frost plugs ?
... LOL
I would ask about plywood options, If I remember right "Runabout Restoration" got it wrong ...
If you need help ... Just post.
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I have that book too.
So the floor in the open bow is actually fiberglass and part of the upper half? Does that rest on a plywood floor underneath? Just thinking maybe you dont have to go all the way forward, but maybe that would be a "short cut" ???
In the back, I am sure you could slide a section under the jump seats, then move forward with the next section. You'd just end up with a seem or two which shouldnt be a big deal. Seems like the job gets way more difficult if you split it in half but I suppose its the right way. I wonder then if you should do the transom since its apart. :o
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I agree with Ross. Maybe you don't need to replace the floor in front. Is it soft?
Nice to see you digging into it!
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Thats right Brian, you may not have to replace the wood under the cap up front, easy enough to check that out, when you make the cut across the floor, leavung a couple inches from the step, you can check out the forward wood, when you cut out the floor, leave a couple inches "safe zone" on the side cut also. By leaving a couple inches away from the step, and the wood up front ain't wet, then you have something to "scab" onto, to relpace the rest of the floor, and like it's been said already, it's a good idea to put the floor in two sections, I do three.
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Take a look through my V174 rebuild thread to see how I did the floor and stringers. I went up to the step and left the rest alone that was under the front deck:
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=147 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=147)
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I wouldn't worry about the floor up front either. In both my v-hull open bows the floor didn't go to the front of the boat. I suspect that's because it's the strongest part of the hull and doesn't need to be reinforced with wood.
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Here are the latest pictures.. This is about a month worth of putzing in my free time. I just ordered the tank. I got a 35 gallon Moeller sub floor tank for $235 including shipping on Ebay. I'm pretty pleased as the 25 gallon tank at Boaters Outlet was $285.
I also got the aluminum factory glastron trailer yesterday too... Lots of different stuff to putz on.
I gotta give credit to Carl Thomas from Lancer service for the most innovative engine hoisti've ever seen! Woo Hoo!
As a side note, you'll notice that I did exactly what Red suggested and cut the rear seats out o the boat. It's going to work REALLY well! They are now going to be bolt in / out. It's going to be really nice to access the engine compartment.
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I agree with Ross. Maybe you don't need to replace the floor in front. Is it soft?
Nice to see you digging into it!
I don't know about the floor up front, but the centerline stringer is soft all the way up to the pass thru section. I'm going to do some custom work to get the new tank in place, so I'll see more then...
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WoW !
One heck of an update Brian !
If ya need any help let us know ...
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Digging in is right! That is a great engine hoist for sure.
I am looking at the exhaust plumbing and it appears one side is plumbed different then the other. Interesting.
What are those strange objects? Critters? Jimmy Dean sausage patties? :D
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That is the most expensive engine hoist I have ever seen! Nice work Brian. Glad to see Carl is helping out. If you need more help I am sure a floor install party could be arranged!
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Digging in is right! That is a great engine hoist for sure.
I am looking at the exhaust plumbing and it appears one side is plumbed different then the other. Interesting.
What are those strange objects? Critters? Jimmy Dean sausage patties? :D
The exhause is custom on this boat... They are the same on each side, it's just that the custom stainless pipe that he made to go to the thru hull fitting came off on one side as we were pulling it out. So, we took one fitting out with the motor, and the other is still in the boat.
The strange objects are walnut shells. It appears that a happy little critter was making a home in the floor some years ago. Mike at white bear boat works told me that he recently redid a floor in a boat and got a 35 gallon trash can full of walnut shells out of the subfloor... :)
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So... what is the current word on sub floor materials? I know that everyone has different opinions on what types of wood to use. "Runabout Restorations" talks about not using the high dollar wood in the floor and stringers stating that it's not needed. Someone over on the CGOA site made a comment that they got it wrong. I think that the book says to use AC Plywood with 2 coats of sealant. The author says that marine plywood is not needed, and says that pressure treated pine or fur for the stringers is acceptable.
I know that marine plywood is running near $75 per sheet, and there is even a 1/2" pressed fiberglass sheet (4'x8') that runs $150 per sheet.
I'm interested in the views of those of you who have done it in the past.
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NEVER use PT wood anywhere. NEVER use Epoxy in a fiberglass boat. I use 1/2" standard exterior grade plywood everywhere (including the stringers.) Anything else is just a total waste of money. Cut the plywood to fit and laminate the stringer pieces so there isn't joints in the same place. Use Poly resin on both pieces and screw together to get a tight fit. You can use 2, 3, or 4, depending on how wide you want the stringers. remember the strength is in the fiberglass, not the stringers so much. after you know it will fit give them a couple coats of 50-50 resin and acetone with 2% MEKP for the total amount of resin and acetone. I "bed" the stringers with Bondo, but you can glue if you want to. Use a small amount of hardener in the bondo so it doesn't kick before you have the stringers in place. I use bi-axle cloth with mat to cover them (and the floor) mat side down and staple the cloth to the stringers, then brush on the resin until it's totally wet. Red used Roving with mat on the GT 160 and I like it. It's stronger than bi-axle and bends on outside corners better. Express Composites has them both. Do the same thing on the floor, and cover with 1 layer of either bi-axle or roving with mat. You can fill any floor voids with bondo and grind down before covering.
I have read "Runabout Renovation, and there are many things that are wrong with it. The biggest is NOBODY in Minnesota has ever heard of Jim Anderson, so I don't think he did many boats here. You know how to find me if you have questions.
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I'm with Jerry on the exterior grade plywood. I'm no expert...but...that's what I used. Sealed it up on both sides, I'm confident it'll out last me...and the whole floor cost less than 1 sheet of marine plywood.
Now that you'll (very shortly) have a new baby in the house, you're going to have to worry about things like chemicals and protecting their little perfect pink lungs, etc.
Poly Resin stinks to high heaven...and I'm sure is nasty stuff to especially sensitive newborns. Your garage is Detached right? (So you'll be ok.) Plus fiberglass dust, etc, etc...
If I had had a newborn...I wouldn't have been able to restore Goldie (attached garage). But I think I was more protective of the kids then my wife was at times.
Good luck Brian on both fronts!
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UPDATE:
Some "person" on e-bay just informed me that he accidentially forgot to remove his posting for the gas tank I bought after he sold it to someone else. Of course he informed me of this AFTER I had sent my paypal payment of $234 to his account. So... now I have to chase all over to try to get my money back. In the mean time, I have no tank on the way.
GRRRRRR....
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Does anyone have a good lead on a sub floor gas tank? The best deal I found was at Boaters Outlet. $284 for a new Moeller 28 gallon.
I have dimensions of rougly 26"w x 72"L x 8"h to work with. I don't mind used as long as it's clean...
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UPDATE:
Some "person" on e-bay just informed me that he accidentially forgot to remove his posting for the gas tank I bought after he sold it to someone else. Of course he informed me of this AFTER I had sent my paypal payment of $234 to his account. So... now I have to chase all over to try to get my money back. In the mean time, I have no tank on the way.
GRRRRRR....
Well, the good news is you used PayPal. You should be able to cancel your sent payment...unless he already withdrew the funds...then, well, you'll need PayPal's help getting it back. I've had that happen once, and PayPal support staff were very helpful.
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I got mine at Boat Motor Recyclers for $100. Try them or TC Outboard, Or Tim Olson.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/DSC00821Medium.jpg)
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Well, the good news is you used PayPal. You should be able to cancel your sent payment...unless he already withdrew the funds...then, well, you'll need PayPal's help getting it back. I've had that happen once, and PayPal support staff were very helpful.
Unfortunatly, I used my credit card rather than my bank account for the transaction and on CC purchases, it doesn't allow you to cancel the transaction. Thankfully, the item did qualify for buyer protection and he sent me an e-mail admitting to his fault. Now it just depends on if he sends the money back...
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I use my CC too...so don't feel bad about that...you can easily dispute the charges and its an added layer of protection.
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UPDATE:
I got most of my money back... Unfortunatly the guy sent the money in a way that got me a $7.09 charge off of the origional $234. I sent him a new invoice. Annoying, but at least I got most of it back so far!
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God that sucks, but $7.09 is a heck of a lot better than $234!
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He should be able to do a "refund" which does not cost anybody anything.
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There's a 35 Gal on Ebay now Brian, see what you think. (Dimensions are close)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/35-Gallon-poly-tank-fuel-cell-belly-tank-/250743732687?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item3a617db9cf
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Blessing in Disguise:
Well, I took Jerry's advice and called TC Outboards. I drove down there this morning with Lisa and picked up a nice aluminum 30 gallon tank for an amazingly low $85.00
I even got my $7.09 back from the e-bay guy. Needless to say, I'm pretty pleased. For the little bit of hassle I had to deal with, I was able to save a pretty substantial amount of money, and ended up with something that is just what I need!
Here are a few pictures...
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Brian
Glad everything worked out on your tank.
Is the trailer new to you?
Looks like the same thing i bought this last spring.
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Glad I could help. Wish I had known you were headed this way you could have checked out my GT 160. James is a great guy we camp with him sometimes at Fish Lake Campground. Did you check out the props on the wall?
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Is the trailer new to you?
Looks like the same thing i bought this last spring.
Yes, The trailer is new to me... It's a factory Glastron aluminum trailer that Shorty bought to work on and put under a boat that he wanted to get. It needs new cross members as the boat that was on it got hit by a car and bent up some of the crossmembers and the bunks.
Nice thing about it though is that it was a V-195 (just like mine) that was sitting on it... So, it's a factory Glastron aluminum trailer already setup for my boat (that needs work) :)
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Glad I could help. Wish I had known you were headed this way you could have checked out my GT 160. James is a great guy we camp with him sometimes at Fish Lake Campground. Did you check out the props on the wall?
I'm awfully glad you suggested it... It was really a spur of the moment thing. I wasn't planning on going today, but lisa and I had 2 hours to kill, so there it is. I did look at the props, but since mine is a LH rotation and I have 2, I didn't look to much. Nice collection though!
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For bedding in the stringers, floor and transom I used 3M fast cure 5200 sealant adhesive. that stuff is AWSOME. A coworker used that stuff to seal the bolts that hold on the outboard motor, well when it came time to remove the motor from the boat and the bolts were out and he started lifting the motor off, some of the 5200 must have gotten between the boat and motor and started to lift the boat OFF THE TRAILER! No BS that 5200 rules! Looking good Brian.
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Well... Here is the latest... I pulled the boat out of the garage to get some work done on the stringers this afternoon. I got the ones out that were bad, and was feeling pretty good because it looks like I won't have to replace the part side stringers.
THEN... I started to pull out the floatation foam in the stern and found a spot on the starboard side stern where the transom plywood is exposed and soft. I'm pretty frustrated. It's the outboard most section of the transom plywood where the two main starboard stringers meet the transom. The fiberglass let go and allowed the moist foam to just sit agains the wood.
I feel a bit defeated and I'm frustrated because I feel like I need to fix it and can't just pass over it. However, I really didn't want to have to do the transom.
Thoughts???
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" However, I really didn't want to have to do the transom "
I'm in the same boat Brian ...Mine will need one soon.
I'm sure we can help ya do it, shouldn't be to bad if a few guys help for a few weekend.
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Sounds like we need a "work on Brians boat" party.
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Post a sign up sheet ...
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I've got a lead on a V-212 that is in pretty good shape that needs a motor... Might go that route. Who knows.
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We just need to get a transom expert there too..... Steve, Jerry, Red, ?????
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" I've got a lead on a V-212 that is in pretty good shape that needs a motor... "
AAAAHHHhaaa The easy way out ... LOL
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Needless to say, that really bites, but does it really need to be replaced now? I know, being that the floor is out, now would be the best time but maybe its just a spot thats soft? Outboard away from the outdrive?
Getting a couple of seasons use out of it would help with the ambition to do it later but then you'd have your new floor in there. Just wondering if it is really necessary at this time.
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My first thought is "this is the time to do it", but after some thought, the deck is still on, and there isn't any real stress on the transom with an I/O, and it's a small area, lay some new glass over it and pretend ya never saw it. (I won't tell)
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It's the outboard most section of the transom plywood where the two main starboard stringers meet the transom.
Hey Brian, you probably don't need to replace the whole transom, you Can just cut out the bad wood and replace that ... once you get past the moist wood, make a template out of cardboard, laminate some wood together the same thickness, and glass it back in there with a wet glob of chopped strand and resin mix, over-lay that with some woven rov mat and be done with it. like Jerry said, ther's not the stress on a transom for an I/O as there is for an outboard, I mean, there is stress alright, and Plenty of it, but it is spread over a Much larger area of the transom, and a lot closer to the prop.
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Just an idea, after cutting out the rotten wood, rout out some good wood beyond that point so that the new wood going in has a cap onto good wood - like a step section.
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Here's how I fixed my pocket of rot on the transom...could you do something similar?
Dug out the bad, then poured in & braced the Seacast. Seacast will bond to existing wood, and I cut the opening smaller than the wood I dug out so that it would be sandwiched in. Honestly think I've done a good fix and will hold for as long as I have the boat.
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2 Coats of mat over everything to tie it all together:
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Got a little wide on the outer edge, but its fine b/c that's not far enough out not to matter:
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Sealed it up with resin & bilgecote:
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