Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: CVX Fever on August 29, 2012, 04:07:08 PM
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Anyone know where I can get my hands on this book? Out of publication and sold for under $20 when it was. I can get a used one at Amazon but prices start at $189. Some guy on Craigslist in MI has one for sale for $150. Checked Hennepin and Carver county libraries. No luck
Supposedly it's the bible for building a small block chevy for marine use. Would really like to read through it.
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Anyone know where I can get my hands on this book? Out of publication and sold for under $20 when it was. I can get a used one at Amazon but prices start at $189. Some guy on Craigslist in MI has one for sale for $150. Checked Hennepin and Carver county libraries. No luck
Supposedly it's the bible for building a small block chevy for marine use. Would really like to read through it.
How about contacting Dennis Moore directly? He is a Minnesota native.
I've talked to him.
http://www.mooreperformance.info/MercruiserSBmanifold.html (http://www.mooreperformance.info/MercruiserSBmanifold.html)
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Ross - Hey thanks for the heads-up. I've been to his site and apparently there is nothing even he can do to get a copy or have the book published again. Apparently he sold the rights and I read the whole situation is kind of a sore spot for him.
I did find a library in Lincoln, NE of all places that has a copy sittng on the shelf. Now I just have to figure out how to get it!...LOL
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There is a series of books by Tex Smith from Hot Rod Mag. on how to do almost anything I wanted the one "how to build Chrysler, Plymouth, Dodge Hot Rods. Everything I found on Amazon, or E-Bay, was $150 - $350. I went to "Mopars in the Park" a couple years ago and there was a guy selling books. The Chrysler one is the hardest to find because not many were printed. Damed if he didn't have one/ "How much?" I asked "How bout $20" he said.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/texLarge.jpg)
Be patient, maybe one will show up. However The machine work and balancing will have to be done by a machine shop. Find a good one, and trust em.
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Jerry - Looks like I can just go over the library in Mound and they can get me the book from another library, even one in a different state if need be. If I decide I really want my own copy I can keep an eye out for one. I'd be OK with running across a deal like you did!....LOL
I've got a 350 engine with a MerCruiser Gen 2 drive that I need to pull out of a Rinker I bought last fall and stick into my CVX18. Undecided what I am going to do w/the engine. So need/want to educate myself a little and then find a good marine engine builder and see what makes the most sense performance and budget wise.
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Kip, The only "Marine engine builder" I know around here is Myron Cottrell, I wouldn't have him rebuild my lawn mower unless I really wanted to spend more than a new motor. Jack Wheeler did all my racing motors. He worked out of his basement and built more record holding motors than any other builder. The secret to a SBC is in the heads.
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This is an interesting book I have. Not marine but still, its small blocks. He puts together 4-5 motors with different HP and dollar amounts just to show what you can get for how much. He writes off 305's for this purpose.
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Performance-Blocks-Budget-Design/dp/1884089348/ref=la_B001JOWD4M_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1346375082&sr=1-7 (http://www.amazon.com/Build-Performance-Blocks-Budget-Design/dp/1884089348/ref=la_B001JOWD4M_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1346375082&sr=1-7)
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Jack Wheeler did all my racing motors. He worked out of his basement and built more record holding motors than any other builder. The secret to a SBC is in the heads.
Jerry do you know if Jack is still around or who builds in his shop now? I remember getting a quote on my old 406 about 12 years ago from a guy named Gary who had a ponytail. I wound up having Gene Pearson build my motor.
Mike Kelley on Payne Avenue built my uncles 406 thats in his Century. I wish I had Kelley build mine back when.
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Jack is still alive and doing well. There was a picture of him in the last Line Chaser (MSRA) at the Torquers reunion. There still is a "Jack Wheeler Racing", but he has nothing to do with it. The only Gary I know is Gary Hedden who was a partner of mine in a C/Dragster. I think he builds superchargers now. I use Hedwerks here in Bloomington. Boat motors are a lot like stock rather than a racing motor with 14 to 1 compression, and close valve to piston clearance. A good balance and roller cam, with a good set of heads will make a good boat motor.
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Jerry - I've got some people out here I plan to to talk to and see if they can recommend someone. Preferably someone like Jack that works out of there garage or basement. The guy who did the 400 for a Pontiac I had years back did it in his garage mostly and that was a good experience.
He writes off 305's for this purpose
Ross that's why I got the 350 versus "souping up" the current 305. Same footprint and weight with more torque, which is what you want in a boat.
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If ya lived close to Oklahoma I'd get a kick out of building you a small block for your boat, but I don't like building a motor that comes to rest so far from the nest.
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Red - I'd love to have you build me a motor, it's obvious you know your way around a sbc, but yep the logistics kind of put a damper on that idea.
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Kip
We could put your motor in my boat and bring them both down to Red !
J/K
Wish I had the funds to do it !
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Jerry - I've got some people out here I plan to to talk to and see if they can recommend someone. Preferably someone like Jack that works out of there garage or basement. The guy who did the 400 for a Pontiac I had years back did it in his garage mostly and that was a good experience.
He writes off 305's for this purpose
Ross that's why I got the 350 versus "souping up" the current 305. Same footprint and weight with more torque, which is what you want in a boat.
Right, good move. I didnt know you picked up a 350. I figured if the timing was right, you might end up with Jeff's...once he builds the stroker for his.
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I figured if the timing was right, you might end up with Jeff's...once he builds the stroker for his.
Cat's out of the bag now Jeff, you been Busted
Now I got some work cut out for me before we meet up again.
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Give it up Jeff, are you sticking a stroker in that CVX18 of yours? Very cool if you are! 8)
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Looking for a 27 no stroker at this point well see what happens.
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Looking for a 27 no stroker at this point well see what happens.
Holy Smoly Jeff ... a 27 with Two Strokers?
you may want to go to private pilot training course
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Jeff, while I had my SSV and lived in south Texas (before I met Courtney), I had been saving for a down payment on a Crownline 270CR (now the 280 CR) ... thought I could take some time as a single guy and go along the coastline from Corpus Christi, TX to the Florida Keys ... had a full head, tiny kitchenette ... could have been a lot of fun.
http://crownline.com/mymodel/280-cr/ (http://crownline.com/mymodel/280-cr/)
I just looked at the GS 289 from Glastron ... when the kids leave home ...
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WOW !
A CV27 with twin strokers !
Ya win the Lotto Jeff ?
Chris's 27 was up "For Sale" awhile ago ...
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Gregg - The best part is he's got the green light from the war department minus the twin stroker part! ;D
Jeff a CV27 is cooler than a stroker in your CVX18! ;)
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Yep .. Heard that ...
Gotta have him talk to my wife now ...
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Give it up Jeff, are you sticking a stroker in that CVX18 of yours? Very cool if you are! 8)
Uh oh.... Did I let the cat out of the bag? :P
Sorry if I runied your surprise Jeff :o
I know its a wish for the future.
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Just an update that I got a copy of Dennis Moore's book from my local library by doing an Intra-Library loan( I think thaty's what it is called). It came from a library in Janesville, WI.
Simple reading with some good information. Highly recommended if your looking to get more power out out of a SBC. I'll definitely be checking it out again when I finally decide what I'm gonna do with the 350 in my donor boat.
I currently have a 400sbc in the garage that I'm going to build and stuff in my intimidator.....
I read this comment on another thread but thought I would add that Dennis recommends this engine as an excellent choice for marine use. If I had a 400 SBC in my garage that's what would be going into my CVX18! ;)
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I GOT AN IDEA !
Let's chip in and buy the book on ebay, and pass it around ... me first.
When I heard about the book, asked to Dennis about it when I bought the manifolds for RedsGold, he said it was out of print then, I never thought about looking in a library.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-block-Chevy-Marine-Performance-by-Dennis-Moore-/170926926031?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item27cc09e8cf (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-block-Chevy-Marine-Performance-by-Dennis-Moore-/170926926031?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item27cc09e8cf)
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Quote
I currently have a 400sbc in the garage that I'm going to build and stuff in my intimidator.....
that was me. hard to argue with displacement. I want a big torque engine that doesn't rev itself to death. 5-5.5k rpm is enough to get it done and still be able to prop it to cruise at a reasonable rpm.
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I GOT AN IDEA !
Let's chip in and buy the book on ebay, and pass it around ... me first.
When I heard about the book, asked to Dennis about it when I bought the manifolds for RedsGold, he said it was out of print then, I never thought about looking in a library.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-block-Chevy-Marine-Performance-by-Dennis-Moore-/170926926031?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item27cc09e8cf (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-block-Chevy-Marine-Performance-by-Dennis-Moore-/170926926031?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item27cc09e8cf)
Im in I will be building a motor in the coming months
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The bottom line, if you want a motor that lasts, and runs strong you need to find a reliable builder of racing motors. I built my first SBC in 1961 when I was going to Mpls Vocational. I did all the machine work installed Jahns pistons in my 265 which I bored to 283, cleaned the heads up and put a 4 barrel Holly on it. It was a good motor to a little over 5 grand. For the gasers and Dragsters I used Jack Wheeler. I could run on or below the national record and they were 10 grand+ motors. In fact in the C/Dragster I shifted at 10 grand and was closer to 11 in the lights. Jack has retired, but I think Jack Wheeler Racing Motors is still around. If you want it to last and make horsepower spend the money. A long time ago when we asked Don Garlits how a SBC could ever beat a hemi, he said "Burn more gas" they have to have good heads, and run high RPM.
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My first race engine was a twin cylinder Maytag model 72, modified exhaust (strait copper pipe) was going on a wood frame "soap box" racer, removing half the fin's on the flywheel for more rpm's was a Bad idea, siezed the engine, I was 12, dad was po'd. Solid rubber wheel barrow wheels, Bridge spikes for axles were suspect in the down hill colision with a tree stump, car was a total loss, but grandma appreciated the kindling for the cook stove.
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/OleReds/Maytag.gif)
My first V-8 build was in 1963, a 1930's little 60hp Ford, auto mechanics class in high school, got an "A" adjusting the valves on that little baby was a trick, grind off the valve stems, thats why we had a teacher.
My first sbc build was a 283, bored to a 301cid, Isky "3/4 race" cam, thats what they were called back then, 3/4 and full race cams was the lingo. it went in my 1957 2 door, 4.11 gears, 4 spd trans, and I could break an axle any time I wanted to .. it seemed, I was 18
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I GOT AN IDEA !
Let's chip in and buy the book on ebay, and pass it around ... me first.
I'm in if you want to bid on it.
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I GOT AN IDEA !
Let's chip in and buy the book on ebay, and pass it around ... me first.
I'm in if you want to bid on it.
Okie Dokie :D
I'll do the bidding, and if we win it I'll scan the pages I'm interested in and pass it on.
Anyone else ?
I'll set the alarm to remind me ... it's going off the auction just before the game ... OU vs some irish team from Indiana that claim they are going to whip up on us, hmmm .. oh yea, notre dame
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Red I would think we could easily sell it for what we got into it when done. I suspect most of it won't be anything new to you.
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Red I would think we could easily sell it for what we got into it when done. I suspect most of it won't be anything new to you.
I've been anxious to have a look at that book, I'm always open for tips from the pro's.
30 minutes left
Got it !
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Excellent! I'll send you a PM concerning payment.
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Red what do I owe ya and when do I get my turn to read it?
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Red what do I owe ya and when do I get my turn to read it?
You don't owe me anything, Barb took it, I got to un-wrap it and only turn the first few pages when Barb came by, she seen it and her eye's got big like a hoot owl, kinda scary lookin, she snatched the book out of my hands and headed out the south door, I try'd heading her off as she passed by the west door but I was too late, she made it too her truck and off she went, nothing I could do.
She showed back up after a while, got to feeling bad about the whole thing, tears in her eye,s begging forgivness, I couldn't take it anymore, I told her to take it home with her, give it a look see, and we'd pass it on when we get her new motor built. She hung around for a while, but she wasn't any help on the little house boat, she couldn't get her nose out of the book, and when she left the shop she was holding the book with both hands, just like she did when she snatched it the first time.
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/OleReds/manifold007.jpg)
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I totally copied Kip's lead and did an inter-library loan on the book. Took about 10 days for it to arrive, but I now have something to read during Thanksgiving.
Good idea Kip!
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How about this....send the book to me and I will scan the entire thing into a PDF file and we can post it on the site for everyone to read when they want to. We have some awesome scanning machines at work. Let me know if you want me to do it. I can even do it in color if the pics are color inside. Don't mind a bit, let me know.
Rich
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Rich - Unfortunately, we can't do that...book is copyrighted, and the site/club (which = Brian the Administrator) would be held responsible for it.
SO...it'd be great, but its not something we can do.
It baffles me that the publisher doesn't know how much the book sells for on the used market and print some more!
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Didn't even think of that.
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You can't copy it, but you can quote it with footnote.
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I want to read the chapter where he stresses that you need to be at 12:1 for a small block to be happy. Sorry Jerry, couldn't resist. You never even posted back the other night. You know what they say about first impressions. The one thing I stress with my 10 year old is think about how you word things and if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. Don't take any of this the wrong way, your first words to me were "I don't like your pistons at all", really? What do you expect?
And to the multiple members who sent me PM's, thank you for your words, and yes, I think I get it now.
Rich
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I won't beat a dead horse, but NOBODY will tell you you don't get more horsepower, and better fuel economy with 12-1 over 10-1. If you are going to spend all that money to build a fast motor why build a half-fast motor? If you run the same intake and cam it will run just fine at low speed and you can prop to run at whatever RPM you want to. You wouldn't run it at 6 grand all day, but you build a motor that will hold up and give you years of dependable service. A short piston like that should have teflon buttons to keep it from rocking in the cylinder, I think a piston with a skirt would give you more stability and longer life. Do what you want, I was just trying to help, because you asked.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/15.jpg)
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Jerry, I am going to put my reply to this on the original thread and not start running this one off topic. So please go to the other post to see my response.
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Is that the engine smoking? He He He...
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My reply to Jerry's is over on the original thread now.
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Looks like the cops are after Jerry too..... Did they ever catch him?
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That's an ambulance (LOL)
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