Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: 75starflight on June 21, 2015, 09:30:07 PM
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Finally dug back into the 18 project again! It's about time in my mind!
Pulled the stringers today, I was amazed they came out in one piece. So I should have a good patterns to go off of.
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The transom is out, wasn't too much left of it under the fiberglass. It just crumbled as I was cutting. I still have some clean up to do, but it was a good afternoon overall.
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It was rotted to perfection !
LOL ...
Good to see ya "Back at it " ...
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Hey Brandon, glad to see you're at it again. We all know, if you to have to replace the transom buy a boat with the most rot. LOL
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That's a good start Brandon!
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I hope to get most of the grinding done tomorrow evening after I mow the yard. I have a long way to go though. I have to repair those holes from the thru hull exhaust since they are too high and will interfere with the power steering.
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To hell with the yard, work on the boat is my motto. Better yet, have Amber mow and work on the boat, he he. Hate to say it, but been there done that, little bits of progress add up quickly. Get all the stinky messy work done while weather is good, can always do the drivetrains in cold weather. In any case good to see progress, keep it up.
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I forgot to mention this in my first post. Has anyone found nails in the transom wood during their replacement? I found four in the wood under the fiberglass.
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I forgot to mention this in my first post. Has anyone found nails in the transom wood during their replacement? I found four in the wood under the fiberglass.
Are you thinking they were used to hold the layers together?
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I forgot to mention this in my first post. Has anyone found nails in the transom wood during their replacement? I found four in the wood under the fiberglass.
Are you thinking they were used to hold the layers together?
Yep
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If they were in mine, it would take a magnet to find them. Everything was way rotten on mine. If using ply, I could see them using nails or staples with glue to hold them together.
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Found 4 in mine.
Half inch long, twisted shafts.
They might have been glued also ...
Took out a wood blade on my Oscillating tool.
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Day one of grinding is done! Stinger tabbing has been removed and did some grinding on the transom to remove the thin layer of wood that was left during removal. Then started grinding through the hard plate to get to the fiberglass so I can repair the exhaust holes and any other holes in the transom.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/23/6d8bbc8ec0b97d3dbf21686214545846.jpg)
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Going to rise the X dimension ?
Timmi style !
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Going to rise the X dimension ?
Timmi style !
Um...no. Just fill in the thru hull exhaust holes.
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OK .. Didn't think about hood clearance problems, till after I hit the post button.
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Getting after it Brandon!!!
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Given that you need a complete engine, why not go center rise and keep the exhaust cutouts? Concerning x rise, there really isn't room to do it that I can tell, my air cleaner is maybe 1" down from decklid. Maybe if you modify the decklid. Looks like your making good progress, hope to see it out next year maybe?
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Given that you need a complete engine, why not go center rise and keep the exhaust cutouts?
Plan is to go center rise on the manifolds. I really want a set of EMI manifolds, but we will see if the budget will allow. On the cutouts that are already there I would love to be able to keep them, but they are in the wrong location and will be blocked by the power steering ram.
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Given that you need a complete engine, why not go center rise and keep the exhaust cutouts?
Plan is to go center rise on the manifolds. I really want a set of EMI manifolds, but we will see if the budget will allow. On the cutouts that are already there I would love to be able to keep them, but they are in the wrong location and will be blocked by the power steering ram.
Maybe this is a dumb question, but your CVZ has p/s from the factory, so how did the PO get those cutouts to work?
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Given that you need a complete engine, why not go center rise and keep the exhaust cutouts?
Plan is to go center rise on the manifolds. I really want a set of EMI manifolds, but we will see if the budget will allow. On the cutouts that are already there I would love to be able to keep them, but they are in the wrong location and will be blocked by the power steering ram.
Maybe this is a dumb question, but your CVZ has p/s from the factory, so how did the PO get those cutouts to work?
You don't want to know...but i think i have a picture some where of how it was done. Lets put it this way...the steering tube was raised up and a long bolt, maybe 6" connected the cable to the steering arm. It was not pretty!
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Ah...creative engineering!!
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If memory serves me correctly, wasn't it exhaust pipe with a gallon of RTV sealant was used for tips? Getting the glass to bond in a round hole will be a challenge, but I'm certain Brandon will have it looking nice.
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Thank you for the vote of confidence Mike! And yes you are correct regular exhaust flanges with a lot of rtv to seal it.
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Making good progress. Too bad you can not use those holes. So with the power steering set up in a stock CVZ, where would those holes have to go to be usable?
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Same location as a cvx-18 mid transom
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I forgot to mention this in my first post. Has anyone found nails in the transom wood during their replacement? I found four in the wood under the fiberglass.
A little late to this party. I found nails in the transom of my CVX. Here's a quote from one of my posts.
Here is what was holding the 2 pieces of 3/4in. plywood together. 6 nails. 2 of which I used for illustration. The plywood was 'glassed to the transom with about 1/8in.of resin, no mat between the outer skin and wood. Nothing between the 2 pieces of plywood and 1 layer of mat over the plywood to tab it to the transom.
Whether you use glue or 'glass mat to bond your plywood together the transom has got to be stronger than when it left the factory.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/glastronjohn18/CVX18/Glastronjohn18%20CVX%2018%20Rebuild/IMG_1834_zps5ac30739.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/glastronjohn18/media/CVX18/Glastronjohn18%20CVX%2018%20Rebuild/IMG_1834_zps5ac30739.jpg.html)
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Here is a photo of my exhaust cutouts/path. The holes in Brandon's are much higher
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First round of fiberglass layup is done. 2 big holes and 10 smaller holes all done.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/03/89695c2b7a56f0318a56bad65982492e.jpg)
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Are you not going for the full width transom like I did?
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Thinking I am going to go with the original transom.
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Should work out just fine that way. Not certain the full width was worth the effort, but did make for extra support of cables and trim pump.
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I laid wood in one side section Brandon for ladder support. Not that you need the full transom like Mike, but just while you're back there...something to think about!
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After all the nasty cuttin' & grindin', your at the fun part now !
Some backing support for ladder would be a good idea.
Nothing wrong with over building ... LOL
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Unfortunately I do still have more grinding to do, ugh! I still have to clean up the tabbing around the stringers and bulkhead areas and all the tabbing from the foam boxes. For some reason I just want good mating surfaces when I start all the glass work. Wood installation is still at least a week out.
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I spent a full day grinding and prepping for new wood, after using detergent and the hotsey to remove all the great and old nasty gunk. Lots of carpet adhesive slowed progress, clogged up even 18 grit disks. This was done with halves separated, I would imagine it would hamoer efforts when the top is still attached. Clean and roughened up should allow the new resin to bite. Not certain if different resins are available that adhere better in certain applications. Looks like good progress, next year launch?
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Looks like good progress, next year launch?
I sure hope so, but it all depends on funds, finding an indoor place to work over the winter, and finding the proper size compressor to spray gel coat. My goal right now is to get the structure back in by the end of july beginning of august and then repair the top side then flip over and work on the bottom of the hull.
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Some friendly advice, take a good look at the hull before laying up the stringers and floor. With the structure deteriating over time, the hull can get distorted. Most hooks especially those created by transom sag from poor fitting bunks can be corrected now. This will save lots of time and materials when and if you plan to blueprint the hull.
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I really didn't notice how small these transoms are compared to what I put in Phoenix. Got the transom cut and fit this evening. I hope to have it installed and clamped by Sunday.
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Progress is good, even little steps. Will you have a place to work on it this winter? I would be interested in helping with gel work to learn its basics. Planning a river run day with
z next Sunday if your interested. Going up to cottonwood. Time to check the place out for future events, or maybe even call events
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Mike are you talking this sunday or sunday the 2nd
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Sunday the second. Sat the first Tim and I are going to CO to pick up 460 heads. Probably try to be on the water by 10amish. Gonna play hooky from church and go to and have some lunch.
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I will run it past amber. We will be in North platte on the 1st. Still haven't had phoenix out yet!
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Grinding went well today. Helps when you have a good grinder and the proper disc. I got the engine area cleaned up and ready for the transom to be installed
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Looking good Brandon.
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Looks good, now its all building!
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With having a few extra days off this week I got the transom clamped in this afternoon. Now it can sit for the rest of the week while we are in Minnesota.
When I get to the stringers next week I am going to do laminated stringers instead of a one piece 2x6 that the boat came from the factory with. After all wouldn't a laminated stringer be stronger then a piece of construction lumber?
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My guess ... anything done with care is bound to be better then the quick slap it together and get it on the show room job that most G/C's had.
Bet when your done Brandon ... That CVZ will out last you ... LOL
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good work Brandon!
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After all wouldn't a laminated stringer be stronger then a piece of construction lumber?
I plan to make my stingers out of plywood too. That's been recommended by others in the club and I agree they'll be stronger than the 2X6's that came out.
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Looks great Brandon, I would go with the plywood stringers as well.
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I hate to be the voice in opposition, but bear with me. Dimensional lumber has the grain oriented in one direction providing for a stronger vertical strength. Plywood on the other hand is designed for horizontal, not vertical loading. This occurs from the various layers having differing grain orientations. Someone is likely to comment on parralams, or engineered lumber, but again, they have various layers, but the grain is oriented in one direction only. Now on a transom, your loading is designed for plywood to distribute the forces across a wider area. In wet conditions, I would prefer solid wood over a laminated piece. Consider this folks, which rotted out worse, your transom or your stringers? Now which one was likely to have moisture locked against it longer. And lastly, what did Glastron factory use? My $0.02, Michael.
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Good points Mike, the joists of a house support alot of weight.
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I have used parralams in my home to reduce height, one is 18 foot long, supporting 14 floor joists. Yep, they are nearly as strong as steel. I think Art Carlson was way more passionate in the design of his watercraft than I will ever be as a hobbyist. I've looked at the overall construction and he really did not compromise much given the state of the art in his day. My Z will likely outlive Me given indoor storage and decent care.
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OOooo... OOOooo...
A good wood fight ... LOL
I don't know enough about the subject to offer an opinion .. But ...
What do you think about the "Composite boards" for stringers ?
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Honestly not much experience with composite stringers or other similar Marine construction materials. Would not mind hearing about them from someone who has experience to offer their opinion. I seem to remember Doug mentioning a friends craft having such installed, but that it made it heavier.
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Hull grinding is complete! All prepped and ready for stringers.
Tomorrow evening's project peanut butter where the transom meets the floor of the hull and cut lumber for stringers!
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/23/0d5e6451cefb6d28539c6636008066bf.jpg)
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Now comes the fun part!
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Looking good, Brandon. For what it's worth I went with 2x6's for my stringers. My thought is the wood is a core material and the fiberglass bears most of the stress.
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I opted to go with laminate stringers so I am building them today. I do have a question for those that have gone this direction in their rebuild.
For the bulkheads I am leaning towards interlocking them into the stringer so they go a stronger structure, would the be a wise idea?
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That's what I did on my 23
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My bulkheads are the same 2x6 material as I used for the stringers, they are three piece and are glued/screwed in place, then glassed in. Used pour foam in the cavities before placing the floor. Just a little foam at a time, when any got up a bit high, I used a bow saw blade to shave a bit off. Just how I did it, maybe not the way others did, but I've jumped the boat twice completely out of the water, and no stress cracks have appeared anywhere(knock on wood). Given the craft is in inside storage all the time, the floor/stringer replacement will likely outlast me.
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Stringers are finally installed.
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/25/c6b77108af91573f24558c5769917878.jpg)
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Progress is good, been nice weather this fall. Curious though, I thought you were going laminated on the stringers. Are you hoping to have the floor in before cold weather?
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Good to see your back at it Brandon !
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Laminated stringers were beyond my skill set at this point since I am limited on indoor work space. so I decided to go with just regular lumber.
And on the floor getting installed...It probably wont get done.
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They will work quite well, especially when all sealed up and tabbed in. Good idea with the buckets, think I use bags of sand. Will you be using a poly tank or restoring the aluminum one? Doran made his floor segmented to allow the tank to come out, mine is two big pieces. I just pray my tank never leaks.
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. Will you be using a poly tank or restoring the aluminum one? Doran made his floor segmented to allow the tank to come out, mine is two big pieces. I just pray my tank never leaks.
I will have a new aluminum tank made through this company eventually.
http://speedytanks.com/ (http://speedytanks.com/)
Red did some business with them with good results.
The floor I will figure out when I get to that point. I need to flip the hull and repair the lift strakes and keel this next spring.
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Got some goodies from Doran today when we met for lunch in Omaha. Thanks again buddy for the parts!
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/05/1e28899ecc4cb8c65ca76103aa99a262.jpg)
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Wow. Cool subwoofer! Doran is such a nice guy....
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Wow. Cool subwoofer! Doran is such a nice guy....
Thanks Jason. Yes he is!
Oh the subwoofer... Yeah, we enjoy that. I just put a new amp on it.
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Is that a CVZ bow cover ?
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Brandon
Are your ski tow hooks and boarding ladder backed up with wood at all? They'd have to be?
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Is that a CVZ bow cover ?
Yes it it Gregg! ;D
Doran was kind enough to sell us the cover and all of his spare parts.
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Brandon
Are your ski tow hooks and boarding ladder backed up with wood at all? They'd have to be?
Yes they are Ross. Small, I believe, 3/4" plywood about 3 x 5" at each mounting point. The ladder will get beefed up with a full width piece of 3/4" ply once the floor is back in.
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" Yes it it Gregg! ;D "
SWEET !
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Is that a CVZ bow cover ?
Yes it it Gregg! ;D
Doran was kind enough to sell us the cover and all of his spare parts.
Wow! If that's not motivation to get the boat done then I don't know what is. Better keep that locked up underground with the demand those things have!
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Wow! If that's not motivation to get the boat done then I don't know what is. Better keep that locked up underground with the demand those things have!
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Yes it is great motivation jason and so is the weather this coming week. Supposed to be in the 50s here for at least the next 7 days. But...we are starting to look for a larger property so I really need to focus on getting some remodeling work finished up in our current house.
Oh, and all the goodies will be stored nice and secure in my basement until it is time for gel and flake work.
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Happy to have moved those along to Brandon, very happy with Barfly, so no need to hold on to things I won't use.
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Wow I can't believe it been over a year since I worked on the CVZ-18 project. We had a bunch of nasty storms roll through Central City last night. I woke up to find the tarp on the CVZ-18 blown part of the way off with water draining into the inside of the hull. I guess it is a good thing Everything is sealed with a 50/50 acetone resin mix and should not absorb the water. I guess I get to see if there are any leaks in the hull since I have not yet drilled out the drain plug.
This is what I woke up to.
I guess the wind was very strong, it looks like it popped at least three 1/2" zip ties holding the tarp to the cradle. Another storm is moving in as I type this this morning. I hope there isn't a lot of water in the hull when I get home for lunch, and I guess I will be drilling out the drain hole.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170517/84105c47c5cf087f0c55f5c6235b98be.jpg)
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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If all the transom work is done, I would not hesitate to get the bilge drain installed. Although the resin/acetone mix should waterproof fairly well, I would not sleep well if water was standing in it. The same storms rolled through here, some damge in areas, but thankfully none at my place. Quite a dramatic cold front, lots of lightning. Whats your basic project schedule look like on the CVZ, will you have it done next year? I was thinking you said a garage project first, then the Z?
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If all the transom work is done, I would not hesitate to get the bilge drain installed. Although the resin/acetone mix should waterproof fairly well, I would not sleep well if water was standing in it. The same storms rolled through here, some damge in areas, but thankfully none at my place. Quite a dramatic cold front, lots of lightning. Whats your basic project schedule look like on the CVZ, will you have it done next year? I was thinking you said a garage project first, then the Z?
Well, Garage Project was removed from the schedule. We decided that we needed to finish up the Remodel on the North end of the house since we will be licensed Foster Parents by the first of June. So we may have children with us for the meet in August. Also, after looking at the value of our home, we could not justify putting up a garage and losing yard space since it would cut our back yard in half.
On the CVZ I honestly have no clue when it will be done. I hope to have the structure done this year, it all depends on when I have time. All that is left on the structure are the two bulk heads and the front short stringer.
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I forgot to ask, what drill bit do I need to drill out the bilge drain hole? I am thinking it is a 1" spade bit, but I can't remember for sure. Its been too many years since I did the one on Phoenix.
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Good news! The tarp sealed out most of the water. Around 50 gallons is what I removed. Oh, and I drilled out the bilge drain and had minor flow out of it.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170517/fd60b8c262572d4dfc6af87c7c2939b1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170517/0f92f4de7edb936ef23161f550164188.jpg)
Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
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Make sure to dry out and seal the wood in the new drain hole!!
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Gonna seal up that exposed wood right???
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Make sure to dry out and seal the wood in the new drain hole!!
Gonna seal up that exposed wood right???
Yes, I will dry out the hole with acetone and then seal with 50/50 mix.
I did not want to do it, but I had to do something.
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I seem to remember it's a 1" hole I drilled with a 1/4" 12" long bit to insure placement, then used a hole saw. Used a burr to create a small radius on both sides to fit the tube. Almost positive Tim and I borrowed your tool to install the brass piece. I used a liberal amount of the 3M adhesive/RTV 5200 to seal it up, but I didn't perform any other resin/acetone there. It's been since painted on the inside, so I hope it's good.
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I dried out the hull and the bilge drain hold today. Removed around ten gallons out of the center of the hull. I hope to start working on this project by mid June. Oh, I did also seal up the exposed wood with 50/50 acetone and resin.