Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dorelse on March 02, 2016, 07:55:51 PM
-
Long story short. I'd like to get the 3.7L engine on CL in Brooklyn Park, it has all the goodies, PS, transom plate, gimbal, everything.
Obviously this can be difficult for me sitting in Des Moines. The engine is out of the boat, so its just a matter of picking it up (literally lifting it up) and paying, etc.
Is anyone close to Brooklyn Park with a portable hoist or have ideas how to get it in a pickup and transported?
Not sure it's even doable to nab, but for the price I think its a worthwhile purchase, and an ideal upgrade in Barfly.
Thoughts & ideas are much appreciated. I'm unable to get up there for at least a couple weeks with my daughter's competitive VB schedule.
Thanks!
-
I'm on the north side and can handle it.
I'll check with Steve A. to see if he has a hoist I can use.
-
At my work place in Lino Lakes, we have a fenced empty lot that could store an engine, and forklift trucks. Not too far away from Brooklyn Park.
-
Jim's got a cherry picker lined up, hoping to get this done tomorrow. Engine turns over but won't fire, hoping its an easy fix, but expecting a full rebuild.
Would have everything needed to drop in and go, with an Alpha set up and power steering to boot.
-
Should be less "Bar" ... and more "FLY" with that motor !
-
Should be less "Bar" ... and more "FLY" with that motor !
Well, that's the hope anyway. I suspect I'll need to pick up the 4 Barrel Carb & Intake at some point to get the full 190HP that it's capable of, but hoping for a good foundation to start with.
I eventually have to pull the floor as it has the towel off weakened corners, so I'll move the front support at that time and perform the swap.
-
Should make for a good swap, are most of the mounts and hook-ups the same? Hope to hear the results.
-
Deal is done. Jim B. - I'll call you in a bit.
The seller actually knows you, Steve Ackermann, and loves your CV-16, and you've apparently talked to him about the CV-19OB as well.
Anyway, should be a nice upgrade. Its everything from the outdrive gimbal forward, including the wiring harness, so it should be complete. Turns over with a battery, just won't fire. Took a little off the top so all in all, a good deal for both of us.
Nice guy...seemed pretty honest about it.
-
You should be able to fire it up on a pallet, stand, or similar. Much easier to check stuff with it out of the boat. I would tend to believe there is not much difference in wiring, should be straightforward, except maybe for the alternator wiring. Will you have it ready for Rathbun? I would recommend an electronic ignition upgrade if it still happens to be points, made a decent improvement in my 140. Come to think of it, I think Makinwaves Hammond had a 470(4 cylinder with 460 head) in it, ran well and strong, I honestly thought it made better power than what it was rated at. Wonder if he ever clocked the Hammond, I'll have to ask.
-
Oh yeah definitely going on a stand and getting dialed in, compression check, etc. The 3.7L at least has the alternator upgrade over the earlier stator design.
I would love to do the electronic ignition upgrade, but I'm clueless at that stuff. I'm not an engine builder, I understand the concepts, etc, but not something a guy wants to try without an expert around.
I'll get it on the stand, wire up gauges, battery holder, I have a spare key switch around, etc. I won't put it in until next fall / winter / spring...too many irons in the fire right now. Plus, I want to find the 4 barrel intake & carb so that's installed & working before it goes in the boat.
I'd also like to lose that cast iron head since the block is already aluminium. Who knows...I have the motor now and that's a start!
-
Great news on the engine!
-
I would love to do the electronic ignition upgrade, but I'm clueless at that stuff. I'm not an engine builder, I understand the concepts, etc, but not something a guy wants to try without an expert around.
Plus, I want to find the 4 barrel intake & carb so that's installed & working before it goes in the boat.
I'd also like to lose that cast iron head since the block is already aluminium. Who knows...I have the motor now and that's a start!
Electronic ignition upgrade is easy. You just remove the breaker plate from under the distributor cap and install the electronic ignition module/plate in its place and connect two wires. You might have to shave down the rotor button a little to get it to fit on the shaft with the magnetic timing wheel in place though. Then set your timing with a light.
With the 4 barrel intake some have an optional built-in oil cooler which requires other parts to adapt hoses that connect to the oil filter. Also, a different front engine coolant pipe is needed. The throttle cable mounts to the top of the valve cover instead of the intake manifold so the mounting pieces are also required.
I don't know if you'll find an aluminum head for these. Although the design is Ford 460 they are not an exact match. There's a coolant outlet on the front side of the head that feeds into the exhaust manifold. Not saying it couldn't be done but you may be opening up a can-o-worms here.
-
I would love to do the electronic ignition upgrade, but I'm clueless at that stuff. I'm not an engine builder, I understand the concepts, etc, but not something a guy wants to try without an expert around.
Plus, I want to find the 4 barrel intake & carb so that's installed & working before it goes in the boat.
I'd also like to lose that cast iron head since the block is already aluminium. Who knows...I have the motor now and that's a start!
Electronic ignition upgrade is easy. You just remove the breaker plate from under the distributor cap and install the electronic ignition module/plate in its place and connect two wires. You might have to shave down the rotor button a little to get it to fit on the shaft with the magnetic timing wheel in place though. Then set your timing with a light.
With the 4 barrel intake some have an optional built-in oil cooler which requires other parts to adapt hoses that connect to the oil filter. Also, a different front engine coolant pipe is needed. The throttle cable mounts to the top of the valve cover instead of the intake manifold so the mounting pieces are also required.
I don't know if you'll find an aluminum head for these. Although the design is Ford 460 they are not an exact match. There's a coolant outlet on the front side of the head that feeds into the exhaust manifold. Not saying it couldn't be done but you may be opening up a can-o-worms here.
Yeah, I need to get it running first!
-
The ignition upgrade goes from points:
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Engine%20Installation/IMG_0217.jpg)
To Electronic:
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Engine%20Installation/IMG_0219.jpg)
Oil cooler connection components:
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Engine%20Installation/IMG_0291.jpg)
Throttle connection and plug wires:
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Finishing%20Touches/IMG_0660.jpg)
-
I am hoping that the reason its not firing is b/c I need to fix the ignition system...so you're likely right in that electronic ignition is needed.
-
That was the second thing I replaced after putting the engine into the boat. The first was installing the alternator conversion kit and getting rid of the old stator and regulator. I also removed the mechanical fuel pump and installed an electric one wired with an oil pressure switch for safety.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Finishing%20Touches/IMG_0661.jpg)
Installed a block-off plate over the old fuel pump hole:
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Finishing%20Touches/IMG_0662.jpg)
-
Good stuff Doran. This will be a nice upgrade to "Barfly"!
-
Thanks, I think so too. I had found a set of exhaust manifolds for a sbc that didn't have risers like Kurt did on his cvx-16. Just more of a project that I wanted.
This should be pretty drop in ready once the engine is up and running. The 4 barrel intake & carb show up on ebay from time to time (that explains why there are hoses with them Rich) so I'll just keep an eye open.
I think its the right power for the boat.
-
That will be a real nice upgrade. Nice price too! The engine work, wiring, etc will be a piece of cake compared to what you will have to come up with for the back seat and engine cover but we know you'll think of something!
-
That will be a real nice upgrade. Nice price too! The engine work, wiring, etc will be a piece of cake compared to what you will have to come up with for the back seat and engine cover but we know you'll think of something!
Shouldn't have to modify the engine cover at all. I likely wouldn't put the motor in if it won't work. By Rich's rough measurements, the back seat shouldn't need any changes either. I think all I'll have to do is add a forward mount, relocate the battery.
Of course its never that simple...but we'll see!
-
Remember I've mentioned your new motor mount will be about 6 inches forward from your existing mount. Then allow for clearance for pulleys and belts. If you don't have to move the seats I would at least cut in an access panel in the back of the seat to be able to work on the front of the engine.
-
Yep, thanks Rich.
Right now I just need to get it home and see what's what...I can then start measuring planning etc. If I end up needing to adjust/rebuild the bench, I'll integrate a ski pole attachment point and set the original seat aside untouched.
$500.00 pretty solid deal...thanks Jim for the pickup!!!
-
I've seen both heads from a V8 460 and I4 470. The 470 has an extra coolant port on the short side, which when blocked off, can allow a used 470 head to be used on a V8 460, but honestly, I've never looked at it the other way around. I will look tonight, likely has a press plug if the port is there. Plenty of aluminum heads out there, but its the exhaust port that is so heinous in flow on the 460 head that is the real performance limiter. Considering our stall speed of circa 5000 rpms, having the ability to make more HP at higher rpm's is not going to produce huge results. Some porting and valve help is out there for cast iron heads, but not sure if its worth the ROI. Still, I'm a bit curious to know the condition of the existing engine, compression, leak down. Given your speed results, sounds like it might be a little sick? At least it might be worth knowing if your going to part with it when your done with your conversion.
-
Yeah, we'll see...engine starts and run great, (a little flooding issue in long wake zones), but plenty of power. I suspect it's just some adjusting on the throttle, prop tuning, etc. My speeds were only via the gauge and the rpm gauge didn't work...so for all I know I was going faster than indicated.
Only had it out twice then cleaned it up and put it away...I need to sort out the RPM, and clean the carb up. The 140 will be sold once the 3.7 is in.
-
Status;
Jumped starter & engine turns over (slow) - weak starter.
Hot wired coil - checked spark - none
Points fried - sanded & set points - no help
PO had ballast resister in wire from (-) coil to points - removed & ran direct wire - no help.
-
I knew you wouldn't let it sit!!! LOL!
-
I knew you wouldn't let it sit!!! LOL!
SORRY ??????
-
I knew you wouldn't let it sit!!! LOL!
SORRY ??????
Sorry? No way, have at her! (Only if you want to of course!)
-
Status;
Jumped starter & engine turns over (slow) - weak starter.
Hot wired coil - checked spark - none
Points fried - sanded & set points - no help
PO had ballast resister in wire from (-) coil to points - removed & ran direct wire - no help.
The ballast wire is supposed to go to positive terminal of the coil. Cranking bypass comes from the kicker solenoid under the exhaust manifold. Disconnecting the shift interrupt may help determine if the switch is shorted internally killing the spark.
-
I ran a hot wire from battery to (+) coil, thinking I was eliminating all other wiring.
Ground side (-) of coil directly to points.
I unhooked all other wires to coil including tach.
I was thinking this would put ignition in start mode with hot shot to coil & no ballast resistor.
-
I ran a hot wire from battery to (+) coil, thinking I was eliminating all other wiring.
Ground side (-) of coil directly to points.
I unhooked all other wires to coil including tach.
I was thinking this would put ignition in start mode with hot shot to coil & no ballast resistor.
Your thinking is correct. If these are the only wires connected( shift interrupter disconnected also) than you should have spark.If no spark check the points again, condenser may be shorted, wire leading into dizzy may be shorted or coil may be bad. Also check rotor and check cap for carbon tracks.
-
Rotor & cap look good. Disconnected resistor. I'm checking for spark at the points - None
It's probably a bad coil. PO had 12V wire going to (+) side of coil & ballast resistor on (-) side to points. I'm hoping someone in the twin cities has a coil to try. I don't want to buy a new one if Dorn will be installing pointless system
-
Try disconnecting the condenser and see if you get spark
-
Did That
-
Hope you can borrow a coil for troubleshooting , no need to buy one until the conversion is done. Pertronix has several of them.
-
Hey Dorn
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmercruiser+3.7+transom+plate.TRS0&_nkw=mercruiser+3.7+transom+plate&_sacat=0 (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmercruiser+3.7+transom+plate.TRS0&_nkw=mercruiser+3.7+transom+plate&_sacat=0)
-
Well, I think its more along the lines of mounting the older 470 bell housing so it will bolt up to the MC-1 transom plate. If I go with an alpha inner, I think I have to switch everything outer...gimbal, outer plate, etc, etc.
So thinking this is what I need...notice how the bolt holes are wider to accommodate the wider mounting points on the MC-1 (pre-alpha) plate:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCRUISER-3-7-BELL-HOUSING-89775-165-170-470-488-PRE-ALPHA-/121790702845?hash=item1c5b4aa4fd:g:o34AAOSwYHxWIw4e&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCRUISER-3-7-BELL-HOUSING-89775-165-170-470-488-PRE-ALPHA-/121790702845?hash=item1c5b4aa4fd:g:o34AAOSwYHxWIw4e&vxp=mtr)
That should make the rear engine mounts plug & play...then its just moving the forward mounting cross member forward.
-
You can try it but the different bell housing may affect how the starter bolts up to the engine. Some models had the starter bolts go through the bell housing with nuts on the back side. Some were threaded into the block casting. One thing Mercury was good at was if you change one part it created a bunch of other annoying problems to solve.
-
You can try it but the different bell housing may affect how the starter bolts up to the engine. Some models had the starter bolts go through the bell housing with nuts on the back side. Some were threaded into the block casting. One thing Mercury was good at was if you change one part it created a bunch of other annoying problems to solve.
Lovely, its a cheap enough part that I'm going to give it a shot...it would save a lot of time and effort if it works...
Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk
-
I bet bad coil too. I have spares.
-
What's a coil cost? Might be easier & cheaper to just grab a new one Jim?
-
New coils from Mercury are $50-$75 I think. I've replaced a bunch for people. In fact I may need to replace the coil on the engine for my B-boat project.
-
If your in the market for a coil, I would advise buying one that matches the desired ignition control system. The coil impedance and ballast requirement are specific to the ignition system. As for testing the existing, just apply power directly to the coil, when you remove power, the magnetic field collapses, inducing the secondary output. For simply testing, any old coil will work. Just make sure the body is well grounded since it is the other side of the output transformer.
-
Ok, aside from the fact my engine doesn't run...time to bolt on a turbo!!! (And watch the fiberglass melt I suspect...)
http://youtu.be/UgZLKEToBuo (http://youtu.be/UgZLKEToBuo)
-
i know some of you like those motors but i would advise against putting that motor in the boat. They DO make decent power BUT they stopped making it 29 years ago. ive seen several crack cyl heads, leak coolant where the box attaches to the manifold, cam seals go bad/cam shaft rots. they crank slow, they run hot the voltage regs go bad and there like $500 stators go bad. and that alternator kit is $600 and its nothing special the pulleys fall off you need to frequently tighten them. if you havent had any of these problems you will. ive seen them very well taken care of and have problems. they get rod knocks too and theyre an expensive build
-
Mine's been running good. As for stator/regulators they've already been replaced with alternator conversion kits. Leak coolant at the reservoir - replace the gasket and helicoil the bolt threads. They only run hot if you've got a plugged exhaust elbow like any other engine, mine runs at expected temperature. Pulley's fall off? Haven't heard that one before. Cracked head? Unless you're running water through the block instead of 50/50 glycol it shouldn't happen. Crank slow? Replace the starter like you would with any other engine. Cam/seals? Well, yeah one quirk but manageable. Rod knocks? Same as any other engine.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Finishing%20Touches/IMG_0669.jpg)
-
I'm not terribly worried...its the 3.7L version vs. the 470, so it already has the 4" heat exchanger, alternator is already on it. P/S is possible and with any luck, it will bolt right up to my existing outdrive set up.
Cheapest way to add 50hp with minimal modification, and for my Metric, its the right motor to put in. The guys in the club who know me, know that I don't need to be fastest on the water. I do want a little more power than the 3.0L is giving though. I believe will fit under the engine cover with no cutting, which is an even greater reason to do it.
I bought it assuming it needs a complete rebuild...if I'm fortunate and it doesn't, even better.
-
Hey Rich,
Is this the right one for Dorn's 3.7 or does he need the 40611 coil?
http://www.amazon.com/Pertronix-Ignitor-Matching-1146A-Marine/dp/B00ID9SZKM?SubscriptionId=AKIAIKBZ7IH7LXTW3ARA&&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00ID9SZKM&tag=wwwbookcompar-20&ascsubtag=56dad7cf48308f46a085b380 (http://www.amazon.com/Pertronix-Ignitor-Matching-1146A-Marine/dp/B00ID9SZKM?SubscriptionId=AKIAIKBZ7IH7LXTW3ARA&&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00ID9SZKM&tag=wwwbookcompar-20&ascsubtag=56dad7cf48308f46a085b380)
-
Look...$200! Take the other one back Jim!!! j/k
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/bpo/5470639829.html (https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/bpo/5470639829.html)
(http://images.craigslist.org/00u0u_de2u3yfo4R6_600x450.jpg)
-
Sleepy Eye is close to Mankato
That one has power steering & exhaust tube, it would be worth it for parts.
-
Sleepy Eye is close to Mankato
That one has power steering & exhaust tube, it would be worth it for parts.
Its very close to home (Winthrop)...yeah, we'll see. The Baja would probably break in 2 trying to haul 2 engines...
If this is the right coil, I can certainly order this one...$33 isn't to bad.
http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=622_964_1094_1050&products_id=2311 (http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=622_964_1094_1050&products_id=2311)
-
Looks like the 'el cheapo' marine starter is $82.00 on ebay...not sure if that's cheaper than a rebuild or not...
-
The exhaust parts are already coming...very reasonable on ebay.
-
Hey Rich,
Is this the right one for Dorn's 3.7 or does he need the 40611 coil?
http://www.amazon.com/Pertronix-Ignitor-Matching-1146A-Marine/dp/B00ID9SZKM?SubscriptionId=AKIAIKBZ7IH7LXTW3ARA&&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00ID9SZKM&tag=wwwbookcompar-20&ascsubtag=56dad7cf48308f46a085b380 (http://www.amazon.com/Pertronix-Ignitor-Matching-1146A-Marine/dp/B00ID9SZKM?SubscriptionId=AKIAIKBZ7IH7LXTW3ARA&&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00ID9SZKM&tag=wwwbookcompar-20&ascsubtag=56dad7cf48308f46a085b380)
I usually use Mercury replacement coils. I believe the Mercury one requires an external resistor/ballast because I know the wire harness has a resistance wire. The ignitor should be fine, for Delco 4 cylinder. Looks like their coil will work according to the engine model numbers.
-
the reason why i say they develop rod knocks is because the are frequently put i larger boats. 21 ft cuddys. they were in sun runners tons of big 4 winns ect. around here they generaly live a tough life in the salt water, also im sure getting water/ anti freeze in the oil doesnt help. that pulley you bolt on to the balancer for the alt kit. it seems that there not balanced good and the look eccentric while the engine runs. i believe on more than one occasion i had to cut pieces of the floor out to make room for the pulley. jmho
-
The pulley for the alt kit is supposed to be drilled and aligned with roll pins to keep it held in place according to the mounting instructions. I doubt anyone who's installed one has ever done that, lazy mechanics. They have a small lip that's supposed to recess into the face of the crank pulley but yeah, sometimes they go concentric and wobble.
-
Update;
Cleaned up & replaced a broken brush spring in the starter & got it to turn over fast enough to do a compression test.
Front to back 60 / 40 / 75 / 60 psi.
Gave up on trying to get it to fire / still no spark.
You might want to rent a trailer & pick-up both engines.
-
Well the other one is documented to not run either...meh...I'll get that one rebuilt eventually...no biggie (and expected).
-
Update;
Cleaned up & replaced a broken brush spring in the starter & got it to turn over fast enough to do a compression test.
Front to back 60 / 40 / 75 / 60 psi.
Gave up on trying to get it to fire / still no spark.
You might want to rent a trailer & pick-up both engines.
It won't run with those compressions with or without spark. They run best over 140 per cylinder.
-
It won't run with those compressions with or without spark. They run best over 140 per cylinder.
Figured that, that's why I gave up ??? ???
-
Cool Jim - Thanks for all the diagnostic work!
-
If compressions are consistent and low it could be something as simple as needing a valve/head reconditioning, maybe a honing and new rings.
-
Dang Ford... HA!!! :D
I mean, I pay $500 for an engine with no guarantees it'll run...and then...it doesn't run! ;)
-
Well, you could drop it off at my buddies Sampson Racing Engines in Inver Grove Heights and have him take a look at it since it's up here.
Jim, have you used that compression tester on other engines? it's not new is it? I have seen some new cheapies run low like that.....
-
Jim, have you used that compression tester on other engines? it's not new is it? I have seen some new cheapies run low like that.....
It's an old one & always fairly accurate. It read 140 psi on my 140 & Joe's read 135 psi.
-
I may bring it up there eventually Jason...right now, I'll get it home, build a stand for it to sit up on and it'll likely stay that way until next winter. The Metric just needs a carb cleaning, tach fixed and the seat fixed and she'll be ready for summer.
-
This may not apply to OB's, but low compression readings are not uncommon for used engines that have been sitting awhile. Performing a wet compression test and a leak down would help narrow down the rings or valve train issues. As Aaron from "Fast and Loud" would say, engines, they just wanna run. Given fuel, spark, and some compression, it should at least fire. When cranking does it develop oil pressure? Does the distributor turn when cranking? Is there some relation to the rotor and #1 cylinder? Love to help, but I'm here and its there.
-
Made it home about 3pm. Drove through snow the entire way.
Good to see everyone at breakfast!!!
-
After going over all the wiring, and cleaning up some questionable work, its looking a little better now. Its clear that there's no power to the coil when the motor isn't 'starting', using the purple/yellow wire at 12V. All the schematics show a resistance wire (purple) dropping voltage down to the coil (+) when running, that purple wire (and a light purple wires) stop at the choke on this motor.
Seems like the alternator conversion was only about 95% completed...getting the starter rebuilt so I can at least get the motor turning over at 'full power'. I want to get the no spark issue resolved.
-
That resistance wire starts at the choke Dor, and goes into the wire loom along the valve cover and should exit near the ignition coil. The purple/yellow wire that is on the coil should be coming from the slave solenoid under the exhaust manifold and is your bypass power to the coil for cranking. The alternator should be the "single wire" type with a self generating field and would have a large red or orange wire from the terminal on the back going to the main battery lug of the starter, or at least attached to the main feed wire that originally went to the voltage regulator which was hopefully disconnected from the system.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Finishing%20Touches/IMG_0660.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Engine%20Installation/IMG_0170.jpg)
-
Pictures are missing from above post Doran ...
Just two circles with - signs in them ?
Naturally, I see them. They're hosted on Photobucket, but not playing well it seems. I'll fix it.
-
That resistance wire starts at the choke Dor, and goes into the wire loom along the valve cover and should exit near the ignition coil. The purple/yellow wire that is on the coil should be coming from the slave solenoid under the exhaust manifold and is your bypass power to the coil for cranking. The alternator should be the "single wire" type with a self generating field and would have a large red or orange wire from the terminal on the back going to the main battery lug of the starter, or at least attached to the main feed wire that originally went to the voltage regulator which was hopefully disconnected from the system.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Finishing%20Touches/IMG_0660.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Engine%20Installation/IMG_0170.jpg)
Yes, 1 Red wire off the alternator that I've followed down to the starter area. Its spliced into 2 wires, a Orange wire & a Red wire that used to be attached to the voltage regulator.
I've been following the instructions in the link to check & confirm everything was wired correctly. Purple/Yellow wire comes off the 'I' post on the slave solenoid and up to the (+) side of the coil. That obviously means their's 12V to the coil when the key is in the 'start' position, but without that brownish-purple wire, there's no power when its in the 'run' position. That wire seems to only go to the choke and is buried in the wiring loom as its not run up to the coil. I'll keep looking.
http://www.wagnerproducts.com/dc607.htm (http://www.wagnerproducts.com/dc607.htm)
-
Its interesting in your photos that you have the grey wire on the (+) side of the coil...every diagram I've looked at says that goes to the (-) side for the Tach?
-
Its interesting in your photos that you have the grey wire on the (+) side of the coil...every diagram I've looked at says that goes to the (-) side for the Tach?
It's not, optical illusion. The grey is on the negative side with the black wire from the distributor. Just the two purples are on the positive side. It's more visible in the top pic with the blue plug wires.
-
Its interesting in your photos that you have the grey wire on the (+) side of the coil...every diagram I've looked at says that goes to the (-) side for the Tach?
It's not, optical illusion. The grey is on the negative side with the black wire from the distributor. Just the two purples are on the positive side. It's more visible in the top pic with the blue plug wires.
Ok, great, your pictures are blocked at work, so I was looking at them on my phone. That's what I have for my (-) side as well, just need to find that resistance wire now. I know a lot of guys have flat out removed their choke plate completely from the carb. Any reason I can't just extend that resistance wire over to the coil if I take the choke off completely? It was something I was planning to do anyway.
-
The resistance wire gets its power from the other purple wire going to the choke. So when you turn on the key power is applied to the choke to start warming it up so it opens as the engine runs. From that connection the coil gets its power through that resistance wire but at a reduced amount so the coil doesn't overheat, the resistor wire takes the place of a ballast on the older systems. I don't know why you'd want to remove the choke, it's necessary for warm-up and it needs power to open so the engine runs right. If you remove the choke function the engine will be hard to start. Also, the resistance wire is a specific length to provide the correct resistance to the coil. Shortening it reduces the resistance and the coil could get hot.
-
The resistance wire gets its power from the other purple wire going to the choke. So when you turn on the key power is applied to the choke to start warming it up so it opens as the engine runs. From that connection the coil gets its power through that resistance wire but at a reduced amount so the coil doesn't overheat, the resistor wire takes the place of a ballast on the older systems. I don't know why you'd want to remove the choke, it's necessary for warm-up and it needs power to open so the engine runs right. If you remove the choke function the engine will be hard to start. Also, the resistance wire is a specific length to provide the correct resistance to the coil. Shortening it reduces the resistance and the coil could get hot.
Removing the choke has been done by a few guys in the club, and that choke has failed on me before leaving me stranded during the meet a few years ago.
I do understand that the resistance wire needs to be a specific length, and I'll look again tonight, but I really don't think its in the bundle of wires that goes up to the coil...its simply not there. Only 3 wires in that entire stretch, Purple/yellow, Grey & Green (I think) for the oil pressure sender.
I suppose I just need to start tracing that wire and seeing where it ultimately goes (or doesn't). I agree it needs to be there.
-
I suppose I just need to start tracing that wire and seeing where it ultimately goes (or doesn't). I agree it needs to be there.
Start at the choke and follow it into the loom, it's probably the darker of the two wires. From there it should just take a right turn in the loom and go to the coil.
that choke has failed on me before leaving me stranded during the meet a few years ago.
Yes, they do go bad. Sometimes the heater inside opens up and the choke remains closed. I've replaced them for people a few times.
-
Found the resistance wire cut about 12" back and taped off...Rich has me pointed in the right direction for running a replacement wire.
-
Just to foster my own understanding...the key point of the wire, is to drop from 12V to 9V to the (+) of the coil so it doesn't fry when running. The same could be accomplished by using a 12V keyed (run position) source to a 12V - 9V ballast resistor to the coil using regular wire. Same difference correct?
Obviously I'm going to do it the right way, and the kit is on its way...but that would account for the ballast resistor we found on the motor Jim. The PO was trying to drop the current via the ballast resistor since the purple wire had been cut off.
-
you are correct in your thinking Doran.
-
Just to add a bit of understanding. The resistance or ballast does in fact reduce the voltage on the coils input, the actual value being based upon the coil itself, and the amount of time the coil is charging(Points Closed). At low RPM's the dwell time is quite high compared to the dwell time at high RPM. When the coil was designed it had to be able to produce a sufficient spark at high RPM so its impedance is matched to draw enough energy at low dwell time to produce suitable spark. At low RPM/High Dwell time, if no resistance was inserted to stem current flow charging the coil, it would eventually overheat and fail. Usually this is accompanied with a bunch of hot mineral oil spewing forth all over your pretty engine. One of the biggest advantages to electronic ignition is called adaptive dwell. The circuitry always maintains the correct dwell time for the coil at various RPMs thereby always insuring a full spark output. Another bonus, no ballast, chokes, resistance wires, etc which can and do change values over time.
-
So someone tried mounting a ballast resistor? Where was power being tapped from to power it?
-
So someone tried mounting a ballast resistor? Where was power being tapped from to power it?
Don't know...the resistor was there, but no wires.
-
If you convert to a Pertronix EI sensor you still need the resistance wire or ballast if you use the original coil. At least, that's what I've been doing and it's been running without any problems. I do, however, connect the Pertronix positive lead at the choke connection before the resistance wire instead of at the coil. This way the sensor always has full power and won't wimp out if you run your trim motor or other accessories.
-
$29.00 later, the exhaust is here.
-
You got the upper boot that connects it to the elbow/coolant reservoir?
-
You got the upper boot that connects it to the elbow/coolant reservoir?
I do, that one came with the engine.
-
A little creative ingenuity, and the proper leverage...I was able to get the motor moved to a larger stand. Larger wheels and room for a battery, gas & gauges.