Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dorelse on April 16, 2016, 07:09:18 PM
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Ok, with the engine now all wired up, on its new stand, new battery, wired up properly, etc...I started digging into what's going on with the no spark issue.
As far as I can tell...with the points open, the tester light lights up when attached to the negative side of the coil and I ground out the tip. (Shown in the video). With it closed, and the tester light on the (+) side of the coil and grounded out, it lights up.
I think that part is all good. The problem is from the cap to the plugs...whatever that could be?
http://youtu.be/oOUKmBjet2c 8) (http://youtu.be/oOUKmBjet2c 8))
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I'm getting 404 not found?
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I'm getting 404 not found?
Of course it shows for me since its my account...
Link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOUKmBjet2c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOUKmBjet2c)
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Now it says, no longer available.
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Have you tried your spark tester on your coil wire and turned the motor over? Maybe the windings in the coil are bad and not sending voltage to the distributor?
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Link works now.
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Have you tried your spark tester on your coil wire and turned the motor over? Maybe the windings in the coil are bad and not sending voltage to the distributor?
Brand new coil...and yeah, I did, I never saw that light up.
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Are the points opening? Is the gap correct?
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Are the points opening? Is the gap correct?
Yep, that video is when I manually turned the engine over to open the contact breaker, so that cam lobe is working. Not sure on the gap.
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Here's a link telling you how to troubleshoot a breaker point ignition.
http://www.gasenginemagazine.com/gas-engines/understanding-breaker-point-ignition-systems.aspx (http://www.gasenginemagazine.com/gas-engines/understanding-breaker-point-ignition-systems.aspx)
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With the tester connected to the negative side of the coil the light should flicker on & off with the opening and closing of the points as you crank the engine. Put a spark plug onto one of the plug wires and let the plug ground against the engine and see if you get sparks at the tip when you crank the engine.
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I'm using one of those spark plug tester lights to see if spark is getting to the plugs. I'm not seeing it light up. I've even tried putting it in between the coil & distributor wire and also never seen it light up. So something isn't completing the circuit when that contact breaker opens.
Here's the tester light hooked up to the (+) side of the coil, with my grounding it to the alternator bracket (and my helper):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLrfeittVmg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLrfeittVmg)
(-) Side of the coil...grounded to the Alt bracket
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKCL6gQ1jgQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKCL6gQ1jgQ)
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Granted I'm new at this...but I would have expected that when the clip is attached to the (-) side and then I ground the test light, that it would only light when the contact breaker was open right?
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When on the negative side of the coil the test light should go on & off. So the points are not making good contact. I would first try polishing the contact surfaces of the points to see if that helps.
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The distributor cap looks pretty corroded on the inside...I was going to just order a new one...$12 seems like cheap insurance.
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Granted I'm new at this...but I would have expected that when the clip is attached to the (-) side and then I ground the test light, that it would only light when the contact breaker was open right?
Yes, which leads me to believe they aren't making good contact when closed, the light stays lit.
Changing the cap will help with spark transference to the plugs but first you need to make sure it generates spark.
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Looked over everything again...used a little sandpaper to clean the contact breaker. I then busted out the dremel & brass wire brush and cleaned all the points and center point?
The thing I found interesting is (and I might be wrong) but is the center point plastic with an outer ring of brass? I couldn't quite tell what was metal vs. plastic there. When I used the wire brush, the ring around the plastic point, cleaned up to a nice brass shine. Before it was black...so think that might have been the problem.
After cleaning it all up, I now have spark!
https://youtu.be/Q2OSsfKfXOg (https://youtu.be/Q2OSsfKfXOg)
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Ah..that's a carbon 'button' in the center...ok...got it. I'm quite certain that the combination of dirty points on the cap, and that carbon button were preventing good current flow. I would think the new cap would be the correct fix.
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Cool that you got spark! Not you just gotta get that thing to crank faster. ;)
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Cool that you got spark! Not you just gotta get that thing to crank faster. ;)
Yeah...it would appear that the starter is toast. I was planning to just get this one rebuilt...unless you think the ebay high torque one's would be better? Would require some wiring changing I think to that additional solenoid...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-Model-270-3-7L-325-390-470-488-MERCRUISER-STERN-DRIVE-1969-1989-/130923916316?hash=item1e7bac6c1c:g:1OwAAOSw9r1WCWlc&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-Model-270-3-7L-325-390-470-488-MERCRUISER-STERN-DRIVE-1969-1989-/130923916316?hash=item1e7bac6c1c:g:1OwAAOSw9r1WCWlc&vxp=mtr)
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Points will usually corrode over the winter to the point where you may not have spark. Unfortunately I belong to the been there, done that club! A little sandpaper in between the points will usually do the trick. Or, throw in a new set for good measure, they're usually cheap. Just make sure the gap is set correctly.
And it's never a bad idea to throw in a new cap and rotor.
Glad you got it figured out!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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Cool that you got spark! Not you just gotta get that thing to crank faster. ;)
Yeah...it would appear that the starter is toast. I was planning to just get this one rebuilt...unless you think the ebay high torque one's would be better? Would require some wiring changing I think to that additional solenoid...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-Model-270-3-7L-325-390-470-488-MERCRUISER-STERN-DRIVE-1969-1989-/130923916316?hash=item1e7bac6c1c:g:1OwAAOSw9r1WCWlc&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-Model-270-3-7L-325-390-470-488-MERCRUISER-STERN-DRIVE-1969-1989-/130923916316?hash=item1e7bac6c1c:g:1OwAAOSw9r1WCWlc&vxp=mtr)
Is it starter? Or is your battery just low?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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Cool that you got spark! Not you just gotta get that thing to crank faster. ;)
Yeah...it would appear that the starter is toast. I was planning to just get this one rebuilt...unless you think the ebay high torque one's would be better? Would require some wiring changing I think to that additional solenoid...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-Model-270-3-7L-325-390-470-488-MERCRUISER-STERN-DRIVE-1969-1989-/130923916316?hash=item1e7bac6c1c:g:1OwAAOSw9r1WCWlc&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-Model-270-3-7L-325-390-470-488-MERCRUISER-STERN-DRIVE-1969-1989-/130923916316?hash=item1e7bac6c1c:g:1OwAAOSw9r1WCWlc&vxp=mtr)
Is it starter? Or is your battery just low?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
It's the starter...needs to be rebuilt.
Sent using Tapatalk ~Doran
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If you have a rebuilder near you, I'd go that route and skip the rewiring.
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I'd go with the rebuild route. For at least one reason, if you need warranty work you're dealing with a local firm. At $119 there is no doubt these are Chinese built, and you get what you pay for. Murphy's law states "any starter failure will always happen the farthest from the dock".
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Yep, there's a good local shop, so it'll be going there. Been super busy and haven't even touched the motor since my last update.
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Well, with a little starter fluid I'm getting it to spit fire out of the exhaust...but seems to be only firing on 1 cylinder. Going to check all 4 cyl's for spark this weekend. Not really a lot to do with it until I address the starter.
I have some other priorities right now, so haven't even touched the boat and it's still in MN
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Cap and rotor match up? Coil putting out four sparks per dizzy turn(2x crank)? I just clamp a single plug to the coil output, take off the cap, leave the rotor. Watch as you crank. Perform a static timing test with a test light, and check what cylinder the rotor is pointing to. I thought you were bringing that engine over some day?
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I thought you were bringing that engine over some day?
Oh...I am.
I have spark on all 4 plugs...just kept moving the spark tester from cyl to cyl watching for spark. I know that cylinder 1 is firing on the 1st position of the dizzy cap. (The rest of what you said ... um...sure?) I don't own a timing gun, so can't do anything there.
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Firing order on the cap is 1-3-4-2 I believe. That's from the #1 plug wire on the cap going clockwise.
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Yep, that's all checked and double checked. The problem is that I'm chasing whatever the PO did to try to get it to fire... so timing could be off, etc, etc
Sent using Tapatalk ~Doran
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New starter arrived today...hoping to get that mounted & wired up tonight. Then we'll see how it turns over now and see if I can get it to fire up.
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Ok a bit confused on the starter wiring.
My old starter had a block mounted solenoid, most diagrams show a slave solenoid on the block, then a solenoid on the starter itself. The new starter has a solenoid on it of course.
So, how am I wiring this up? Is the block mounted one, now my slave solenoid and I'm running new wires to the starter solenoid?
The new starter solenoid has an 'R' which I believe is unused.
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/start%20system_zpsvoprbmtc.jpg)
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Correct. Take the output from the slave block-mounted solenoid and attach it to the small right-side terminal of the solenoid on the new starter. You may have to change the thickness of the wire or at least crimp a smaller eye onto it.
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The main red battery cable goes directly to the new starter, top large terminal just like any other starter.
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Yeah, sounds like what I ended up with is wrong. I have the slave solenoid daisy chaining power to the starter solenoid.
I think what you're saying is that I don't need to run battery power through the slave solenoid at all...so long as the yellow/red wire is powering both solenoids to open when I turn the key to start.
Will do.
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20160730_14_15_05_Pro_zpsp4kwh5lr.jpg)
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I must have done something right! She fires up!
I discovered a couple things...the distributor had the plug wires 1/4 turn off, new plugs, new starter. With a little starting fluid seems to fire up. I just need gas now.
http://youtu.be/JQwBhBxXqfs (http://youtu.be/JQwBhBxXqfs)
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You've got some of the wiring to the slave solenoid right. I'll have to see how mine is wired but you need battery power to run through the slave for ignition bypass and to kick the solenoid on the starter. The slave is grounded to the engine through its mounting bracket. The yellow/red wire (start) from the harness is correct to the slave and so is the purple/yellow (ignition bypass) so leave those alone. Disconnect the yellow wire you've added from the slave and reconnect it to the right-side large terminal of the slave by itself. The left-side large terminal of the slave should have the larger red/purple power feed from the harness attached to it by itself.
Now, at the starter - Main battery cable, thinner red wire from harness, and orange wire from harness go to the main lug. The small terminal on the right is to have your new yellow wire going to it from the large right-side terminal of the slave.
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Here's a better scan of the 3.7 wiring diagram:
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I just looked at your pics again and it looks like the yellow/red wire that is taped up is supposed to be going from the slave to the starter, in place of the new yellow wire you added.
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I notated your pic
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I just looked at your pics again and it looks like the yellow/red wire that is taped up is supposed to be going from the slave to the starter, in place of the new yellow wire you added.
Well, of course this started life as the mid-80's 3.7L with the stator, etc, so its had the Alt conversion done on it. So yeah, there's been some hands on the wiring already.
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The orange wire is most likely going to the alternator which takes the place of the old regulator. There was a red/purple going to the regulator but that can be taped up and just put aside. But yes it looks like a bunch of changes were made that didn't need to be, probably because a non-solenoid starter was used on the engine so all the battery wires got relocated to the slave solenoid. Make the changes I suggested and take another pic to post here.
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You're correct Rich, the Orange wire starts life as a Red wire from the alternator, disappears into a taped up section and emerges as an Orange wire and a Red/Purple wire.
Of course none of the pictures I'm seeing show a block mounted slave & the starter solenoid. Is there a reason for 2 solenoids?
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(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160730/015d855532ea5ec332aa5303504e88f8.jpg)
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Further changes:
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I thought it was odd that that yellow/red wire was taped off...I'll clean it all up tomorrow. Thanks Rich!
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The block mounted solenoid is just a redundancy thing most marine engines have these days. The wiring diagram I posted earlier shows the block mounted slave in the middle of the page.
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Yep, checked the diagram you posted...the 2 yellow/red wires were throwing me being that mine are taped off. So I was trying to figure out the alternator conversion and all the other work.
Thanks again Rich, I get what I need to do and hope to post video of it running tomorrow.
Now, I just need the 4 barrel intake & carb parts to show up on ebay. I'll do a compression test again soon and see what the numbers say and if its improved at all.
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Ok, cleaned up the wiring. Hopefully Rich approved now! The proper connectors were even already on the wires. I think what happened is that with the non-solenoid starter that was on there, someone taped those off as they wouldn't be needed.
Running video to follow!
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20160731_11_46_26_Pro_zpsazyalqsi.jpg)
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20160731_12_52_04_Pro_zpsoakzdxo4.jpg)
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Starts up and WAS running good until 00:31...that, ladies and gentlemen is the sound of a 3.7L throwing its stator magnets off...(whew...I thought the motor had imploded!)
http://youtu.be/eC44g-Qxmyc (http://youtu.be/eC44g-Qxmyc)
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After figuring out that the motor was ok, I ran it again and it purrs very nicely. I either don't have a working oil pressure sender, gauge, or oil pump??? (hope not). I'd like a working engine temp too...though maybe the cold water is keeping that low...not sure.
Anyway, seems to start up, idle and run great.
At some point, now that its warmed up and running again, I'll do a compression check and see where we're at...thanks guys for all the help getting this motor picked up and helping getting it running!
Now to start looking for the 4-Barrel intake parts to get the HP up to the 190 I'm looking for!
http://youtu.be/oODFyn_Ht6Y (http://youtu.be/oODFyn_Ht6Y)
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The wiring looks correct now! That engine actually sounds pretty damn good! I'm surprised since the alternator conversion was added that the old stator wasn't removed. I hope the loss of a magnet doesn't affect the harmonic balancer. When I added the alternator to mine I pulled the stator and regulator off and just left the cooling pipe that was attached to the back of the regulator.
If compressions are low the engine will be running at a reduced horse power so with the addition of a 4 barrel I doubt it will see 190hp. It might knock it back up to 160-170.
On your first video right at 30 seconds when you bumped the throttle it sounded like something changed in the engine, like it started gurgling before the magnet got chomped. I guess that was the exhaust pipe falling off. ;-)
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If there was no oil pressure it might not run as well as it does because it has hydraulic valve lifters. I would bet the pressure sender is bad, I've replaced a few including my own. The temperature sender is under the front of the exhaust manifold and so is the thermostat. Perhaps it's running cold due to a stuck or missing thermostat if the temp sender is good. Test how hot the manifold gets after it's running a while, it should be quite warm when at temp. The thermostat is a special design that has a "foot" on it that closes the bypass port as the thermostat opens, maybe the wrong one is installed.
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Yeah, its now vibrating slightly since one magnet is now missing. Can I take all that off without pulling the motor apart?
I think the motor sounds pretty strong and idles down nicely. However, I can't run it anymore since the el'cheapo starter from ebay is now hanging on the flywheel and kept the engine running when I turned the key off. (That's somewhat scary!)
Yep, the exhaust vibrated loose right about then Rich.
I'm not expecting this motor to go in the boat before getting it rebuilt. You know that the 4-Barrel intake for this engine is pricey, so I just need to scope out the parts and look for a decent price. That way I'll have everything when its rebuilt.
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Yeah, there a single bolt that holds on the crank pulley, then use a gear puller to remove the pulley. Then just a matter of 4 screws I think to remove the stator.
The new starter toasted? Hung up solenoid?
I 'might' have an extra 4 barrel intake. We'll have to see what kind persuading will be required for me to relinquish it. ;-)
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Ha, ha Rich... Yeah, I'll be in touch ;)
I'm assuming a hung up solenoid, as soon as the battery is connected (even with the key off) the starter goes...
Here's what's left of the magnet:
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/Mobile%20Uploads/WP_20160731_13_59_01_Pro_zps6ottcult.jpg)
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Make sure the yellow start wire lug isn't touching the battery cable lug terminal.
Here's a 4 bbl intake on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercruiser-Intake-485-488-190-170-185-/252431408167?hash=item3ac6159c27:g:q9kAAOSwc1FXZ1eO&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercruiser-Intake-485-488-190-170-185-/252431408167?hash=item3ac6159c27:g:q9kAAOSwc1FXZ1eO&vxp=mtr)
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doesn't that look a bit suspect with all the crud on the right? I've seen them with the carb for that price and in better shape.
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Probably just some dried up coolant from the cylinder head. Clean off the old gasket and it should be fine. The front cooling hose needs to be changed with the intake and throttle cable anchor point relocated to the top of the valve cover. Optional oil cooler hoses and filter adapter can be added.
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now I'm wondering if I don't have the key switch wired incorrectly...loosened up the starter, reinstalled. Started up fine, but again, I can't shut it down. Starter was not hung up...so...how to test that?
I did notice that the second the battery is hooked up, the tach bounces 'on'...so I must have it (the key swtich) wired incorrectly?
Thoughts? Start it and start pulling wires out of the key switch until it shuts down?
I'll recheck my wiring tomorrow...something's wrong.
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Is your slave solenoid working properly? I would check to see if it's staying connected.
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Is your slave solenoid working properly? I would check to see if it's staying connected.
Possible...as it did shut off just fine earlier today.
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I've seen this happen before with a new starter that had a faulty solenoid where it was making a connection to the small start lug internally causing the starter to stay running. Replacing it again solved the problem. One way to test it is to remove the yellow wire from the starter and just jump it from large terminal to the small start terminal using a screwdriver. If the starter continues to run when you remove the screwdriver then the problem is in the starter. If the starter shuts down like it's supposed to when you pull the screwdriver away then the problem could be the slave solenoid not releasing when you disengage the key. Use a test light on your disconnected yellow wire and to engine ground. Turn the key to start and the test light should light up, when you release the key the light should go off. If it doesn't then your problem is in the slave solenoid.
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Good idea for the test light Rich...I'll start testing them tomorrow.
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So any progress on the starter diagnosis?
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It is possible the starter is not shimmed proper. This can prevent the starter from disengaging. Use the test light to see if energy is removed from the solenoid coil. Easier way is pull power off the coil so it won't start, and turn it over several times. It doesn't take too much time for the engine to destroy a starter that won't disengage.
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So any progress on the starter diagnosis?
I'm hoping to get to it tonight. I have family coming tomorrow, so the 'honey do' list it growing rapidly.
Luckily, part of the next few days involves boating, boating, and more...boating. Hoping that the recent rains don't close the lakes to ski boats ("no wake speeds").
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Ok, pulled the pulley off the 3.7 today. A little post-meet motivation setting in...
Watched some volleyball:
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/20160820_101116_zps3lw6fuyc.jpg)
Pulled off the main pulley to find lots more chewed up magnet material:
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/20160820_141940_zpskwo11sje.jpg)
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/20160820_141943_zpsj1knjjkj.jpg)
More magnets:
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/20160820_141953_zps4fyfqhrh.jpg)
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/20160820_142441_zpsqwh14jlp.jpg)
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/20160820_151408_zpsfnl7vw8l.jpg)
Stator Removed:
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/20160820_151819_zps7czwhdqq.jpg)
All Cleaned up!
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/20160820_145851_zps7opn9bgt.jpg)
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/20160820_151416_zpsg2r7ux7m.jpg)
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Same here. Stator was the first thing to go on my engine when I first put it in my boat. But my magnets were intact.
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Ok, hooked the battery back up, key off, yellow/red wire to starter disconnected.
Using the test light, the yellow/red wire has power all the time...so the starter would be engaging all the time.
Also, the slave solenoid on the block as power at the big terminals on the side and to the purple/yellow wire as well.
That can't be right, right?
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Sounds to me like the slave solenoid is stuck closed. When the key is off there should only be power to the red/purple wire of the slave, the large yellow/red that goes from there to the starter should not be energized until you turn the key to start. Check to make sure you have no power at the thin yellow/red when the key is off, power there would cause the solenoid to close.
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Checking...
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That solenoid has power to everything but the little yellow/red wire whether the key is off or on...no different. So the starter is always 'on'...
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Hit the solenoid with something to see if it gets unstuck, then check for power at the connections again. Also try disconnecting and reconnecting the battery and listen for clicking of the solenoid.
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Also, if the solenoid is stuck then the ignition coil is receiving power through the purple/yellow wire so make sure it's not getting baked.
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Yep, solenoid is sticking...if I give it a couple of whacks it releases and 'opens'...turn the key to start, it clicks closed and stays connected.
I'll order a new one...thanks Rich! (I think the purple wire is ok...)
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New part ordered...will be here tomorrow.
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New solenoid installed, seems to have fixed the issue...starter only gets power when key switch goes to 'Start' now.
Hoping to get this running again in the next couple of days.
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Just to understand, having not worked on the 3.7, but they do not normally have an alternator, but rather a stator system like an OB? Secondly of curiosity would be the appearance of the crank trigger, or what looks like one. What is its function, since I thought we were dealing with a points ignition. Glad to hear your electrical stuff is getting sorted out, will you have this in Barfly this year?
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Just to understand, having not worked on the 3.7, but they do not normally have an alternator, but rather a stator system like an OB? Secondly of curiosity would be the appearance of the crank trigger, or what looks like one. What is its function, since I thought we were dealing with a points ignition. Glad to hear your electrical stuff is getting sorted out, will you have this in Barfly this year?
The 3.7 motor has gone through many revisions, starting as a Mercruiser 470, that yes, did have a crank mounted stator and water cooled voltage regulator system that was pretty terrible.
Rich can speak in more detail, but during the 470's evolution, it became the Mercruiser 165, then the 3.7L. All the same engine. Mine is an early 3.7L that still had the stator system, but had the larger (and better) 4" heat exchanger. (This engine has always been closed cooling.)
A PO somewhere along the line, upgraded the motor with an alternator conversion (which is a $350-500 cost). There's also the ability to add P/S to this motor and a 4 barrel intake putting out 190HP. An additional 50HP would (I think) be the right match for Barfly, with minimal effort.
That all is conditional on it fitting! As for being in place next year...possibly. I still want to get it running right then get a compression test again and see if the engine is healthy or not. (Sure sounds good.)
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Tim had a Hammond with a 470 and water cooled regulator, but I don't remember if had an alternator or a stator. His melted down and dont remember the fix, I'll have to ask. Thanks for the info.
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Just to understand, having not worked on the 3.7, but they do not normally have an alternator, but rather a stator system like an OB? Secondly of curiosity would be the appearance of the crank trigger, or what looks like one. What is its function, since I thought we were dealing with a points ignition. Glad to hear your electrical stuff is getting sorted out, will you have this in Barfly this year?
There is no crank trigger, not sure what you're looking at to make you think so. With the removal of stator and regulator you install an alternator conversion kit which both Dor and I have.
Tim's voltage regulator burned up like a roman candle. I think he installed an alternator conversion kit afterwards.
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Rich - Will I be able to put my P/S down there where your Alt is? Or am I going to need to switch the 2?
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I'm guessing your alternator is up top where my power steering pump is. If you get the alternator kit I have it comes with the front mounted pulley but that kit is very pricey. Or you can get one of these kits from this ebay seller:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCRUISER-470-ALTERNATOR-CONVERSION-w-POWER-STEERING-/252509134577?hash=item3acab79ef1:m:mzOAm9xYnnpun7ev2q-0rDw&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCRUISER-470-ALTERNATOR-CONVERSION-w-POWER-STEERING-/252509134577?hash=item3acab79ef1:m:mzOAm9xYnnpun7ev2q-0rDw&vxp=mtr)
Or one like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-470-Mercruiser-Alternator-Kit-w-Power-Steering-/252510682974?hash=item3acacf3f5e:m:mlyFsnzEK6MTV4HztUyOH9g&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Premium-470-Mercruiser-Alternator-Kit-w-Power-Steering-/252510682974?hash=item3acacf3f5e:m:mlyFsnzEK6MTV4HztUyOH9g&vxp=mtr)
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My alternator is mounted on the top, but off to the side like the 2nd ebay link...looks like I'll be able to fit the P/S pump in the same location they did. Nice!
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Just to understand, having not worked on the 3.7, but they do not normally have an alternator, but rather a stator system like an OB? Secondly of curiosity would be the appearance of the crank trigger, or what looks like one. What is its function, since I thought we were dealing with a points ignition. Glad to hear your electrical stuff is getting sorted out, will you have this in Barfly this year?
There is no crank trigger, not sure what you're looking at to make you think so. With the removal of stator and regulator you install an alternator conversion kit which both Dor and I have.
Tim's voltage regulator burned up like a roman candle. I think he installed an alternator conversion kit afterwards.
From a previous photo these two items looked like a reluctor and a mag pickup. I quickly doctored a pic of yours to show what I was seeing in the picture. Seeing this latest photo shows that what I thought was a pickup is actually the front motor mount. Sorry, I get confused sometimes. Sounds like progress though, hope to hear some results before season ends.
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googling 'reluctor'...that's new one for me.
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(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXW0bx_Ooq4#)
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Oh yeah, perfectly clear now!!! lol
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Working with industrial controls, this one makes a lot more sense to me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBp5ag6SJH4&feature=share
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Ok, rolled it out and started it. Started right up and idled down perfectly. Still need to get the oil sender replaced.
Seems to run great! 2nd video..is just when I popped the oil filler cap off to see if oil is being pumped up...I guess I expected to see more? There's definitely oil up there that wasn't there before I started it, but I don't have enough experience to say if that's right.
http://youtu.be/8uovTX4za9c (http://youtu.be/8uovTX4za9c)
http://youtu.be/O90YvLZasnE (http://youtu.be/O90YvLZasnE)
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It should be wet on the top, with a fair amount of spray, but that may not occur as dramatically as you would like at idle. Sure it's possible a pushrod is plugged up, but I would verify oil pressure and run at 2500 rpm for 30 seconds then recheck. Look at cam manufacturers recommendations for cam break in. They want lots of oil on the critical surfaces for 3 min after first start. Other than the alt belt looks loose, it sounds ready to go.
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It should be wet on the top, with a fair amount of spray, but that may not occur as dramatically as you would like at idle. Sure it's possible a pushrod is plugged up, but I would verify oil pressure and run at 2500 rpm for 30 seconds then recheck. Look at cam manufacturers recommendations for cam break in. They want lots of oil on the critical surfaces for 3 min after first start. Other than the alt belt looks loose, it sounds ready to go.
Hmm...no break in really needed...this is the motor as it came from the TC's when I picked up at Jeff's house. I've just fixed the electrical issues, new plugs, oil/filter and fired it for the most part.
Jim B. did an initial compression test and the numbers weren't good from what I remember. At the time, the starter was very weak, and it hadn't run in years. The old starter could barely turn the motor over. So I've been just focusing on getting the electrical kinks worked out. Now with it running properly, I can do dry & wet compression checks and see where its at.
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I wasn't suggesting cam break in procedure, but to suggest that the rpm needs to be held in the 2000 to 2500 range to insure adequate oiling when doing so. There just isn't going to be a lot of oil on top just from idling. No clacking or clunking, put it in!
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Ah...sorry, I thought you might have thought I'd had it rebuilt.
It sounds great, but I need a few more parts first. 4 barrel intake & carb, P/S pump, oil cooler, drive coupler and then I can work on moving the transom mount forward and getting it in.
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I have a used Drive couple or you can have
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I have a used Drive couple or you can have
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Thanks Joe! I have a couple used ones too, but since the engine is already out & I'm increasing the HP, it's probably best to get a new one.
I am still not confident the engine will fit. At a minimum, I think the Alt will have to be relocated down like Rich's. So I've got some measuring to do...
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Been measuring...looks like it fit just fine. Bench seat angling out creates just enough room.
Time to get the compression checks done, provided that's good, get this sucker in...
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That motor sounds good. The dog doesn't know what to make of that growling beast.
I am still not confident the engine will fit. At a minimum, I think the Alt will have to be relocated down like Rich's. So I've got some measuring to do...
If you switch to an alternator kit like mine it will increase the length of the engine up front, perhaps making it harder to fit in the boat. If you go with one of the alternator setups like those in the ebay links I posted earlier then the engine stays more compact. Maybe the seller can sell you just the brackets instead of a whole package, wouldn't hurt to try contacting him.
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That motor sounds good. The dog doesn't know what to make of that growling beast.
I am still not confident the engine will fit. At a minimum, I think the Alt will have to be relocated down like Rich's. So I've got some measuring to do...
If you switch to an alternator kit like mine it will increase the length of the engine up front, perhaps making it harder to fit in the boat. If you go with one of the alternator setups like those in the ebay links I posted earlier then the engine stays more compact. Maybe the seller can sell you just the brackets instead of a whole package, wouldn't hurt to try contacting him.
Yep, going to send them both a message...would be much easier fit too.
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One more video today...let the motor run for 20 mins straight. Not one issue, shut if off, restarted immediately, no problem.
I dunno really what's left to do besides get it ready to drop in. (Well, collect parts now for the extra 20HP upgrade, 170 -> 190 HP.)
Ok, one thing I think isn't right is that the Purple/yellow wire must be on the wrong terminal, its always putting 12V to the coil. I think that should be on the same terminal as the yellow/red one so that it only has power when starting right? The purple resistor wire is putting out 7.5v, I was expecting to need to shorten it to raise the voltage to a higher number as needed.
http://youtu.be/qa7zwqvQP5U (http://youtu.be/qa7zwqvQP5U)
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Ok, one thing I think isn't right is that the Purple/yellow wire must be on the wrong terminal, its always putting 12V to the coil. I think that should be on the same terminal as the yellow/red one so that it only has power when starting right? The purple resistor wire is putting out 7.5v, I was expecting to need to shorten it to raise the voltage to a higher number as needed.
No, the purple wire is correct where it is. The purple/yellow wire should show the same voltage as what's at the coil when the engine is running, more when cranking the engine to start. If you switched the purple/yellow to the other terminal then the yellow wire would also see voltage while the engine is running because power is coming from the coil's resistance wire and the starter will continually engage.
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Hmm...ok, I thought 12V at the coil was too much and it was supposed to drop and use the resistor wire when running.
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Hmm...ok, I thought 12V at the coil was too much and it was supposed to drop and use the resistor wire when running.
That's what is supposed to happen. When it's running check the voltage at the (+) of the coil and if it's 12+ disconnect the purple/yellow wire from the solenoid and check the voltage again at the coil. If it drops then there's something in the solenoid that's keeping power connected. Perhaps a faulty solenoid or the wrong solenoid. This is why I don't trust aftermarket parts for some things.
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FYI Rich - Your motor's in Canada getting fixed:
http://rosseauroad.ca/service/marine-service/ (http://rosseauroad.ca/service/marine-service/)
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FYI Rich - Your motor's in Canada getting fixed:
http://rosseauroad.ca/service/marine-service/ (http://rosseauroad.ca/service/marine-service/)
What the hell?!?!?!? I should be paid royalties for the use of my pictures. I also saw that pic being used on an ebay sale for an alternator conversion kit. I actually won the bidding on that kit so now I have an extra.
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What do you think? I'm sending this email to that marine service place:
Hello,
This email is concerning a picture that is posted on your web site in the marine service section. Someone had brought it to my attention that you're using a picture of a clean Mercruiser 3.7 liter engine sporting a sawed-off flame arrestor in a light green boat. Well, I am the owner of that engine/boat and found it curious that you would choose to use it in your advertising. I'm located in Connecticut USA and know for a fact that no work on this boat or engine had been performed at your shop as I do all my own work. I'm flattered that you would use one of my pics and understand that what is posted on the internet is pretty much public domain but to use my pics in advertisement without permission seems a little unethical. I'm not usually one to seek legal recourse but would request it be removed. To show proof I am the owner I've attached links to a couple of my youtube videos showing the same boat below.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Richard
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Sounds good to me, Send it!
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Ugh! Mail delivery failure! I sent to the email address listed on the company's billboard, billjen@rosseauroad.on.ca and it came back with that message.
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Sounds like an appropriate response. Somewhat curious how much work they actually do if they need to grab pics from the internet. Back to the original thread, is the ignition system stock? Guess I was thinking you upgraded to electronic ignition and a low impedance coil which would then require 12 VDC when running. Fairly typical on many engines to create a bypass for full voltage at coil while cranking to improve spark output. Sounds like your close, are you waiting to upgrade the carb/manifold before installation or after? Be kinda cool to see/feel the difference with real world testing, but I understand the access to the engine might make that tougher.
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The ignition system is stock actually...so that means points I think. It has a new stock coil. The
I'm going to keep the engine on the stand for the winter. I'll winterize it which, (Rich?) is just draining the heat exchanger I think. Or I suppose RV Antifreeze goes in there.
Over the winter, I'll collect the parts for the 190 upgrade. If I'm honest, its running good enough that I don't want to mess with it...but it might be very difficult to add all those parts once the motor is stuffed in the boat.
I need several things...inner transom bracket that will accept P/S. 4-Barrel intake, QuadraJet Carb, there's an oil cooler that comes with the 4 barrel intake as well I think.
And...a 3.7L matching outdrive (or change out my upper) ...you know...the little bits... :D
So...my winter will be collecting parts and then I'm hoping to have a engine swap party sometime in the spring. That way, I can run the motor again with all the new bits on before its dropped in.
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FYI Rich - Your motor's in Canada getting fixed:
http://rosseauroad.ca/service/marine-service/ (http://rosseauroad.ca/service/marine-service/)
What the hell?!?!?!? I should be paid royalties for the use of my pictures. I also saw that pic being used on an ebay sale for an alternator conversion kit. I actually won the bidding on that kit so now I have an extra.
Lol
It does get around.
Motor sounds pretty smooth D. Thru hull on Bar fly?
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Motor sounds pretty smooth D. Thru hull on Bar fly?
Thinking about it...I think it sounds awesome (for a 4 cylinder)...and would like to keep that sound. The whole reason for doing this is to try something different...different setup.
A through hull might be cool. Supposedly, though, the 3.7L has a reputation for ingesting water...
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I assume a single outlet? Can you find an exhaust that splits two cylinders into one port each? Maybe a split with one longer runner to alter the exhaust tone? Non-Harleys been doing that a long time to create the sound. I know-crazy talk!😉
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Well, winterized Barfly today. :'(
Plus side...took out the bench seat for easier access to the oil pan to change the oil. I have got to put a Fumoto Valve on!
Going to be measuring up the compartment tomorrow to make sure the 3.7 will fit.
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/20160903_144822_zpsuafsxqv2.jpg)
Just a reminder to clean out those drain holes...one was completely plugged up after partially draining. Cleared it out and all this came out.
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/temporary_zpsada9cx3c.jpg)
Also sealed up the gas tank with a new sender & gasket. No more smell!
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/temporary_zpsvsux19ly.jpg)
Then the dog got sick...someday she'll learn Frogs aren't for eating:
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/20160903_223750_zpsijvp45lu.jpg)
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Still runs great!
http://youtu.be/TLqkXccr7e4 (http://youtu.be/TLqkXccr7e4)
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You see where the two bolts are that are holding down the front engine mount on the 3.0 liter? Mark those spots about 6 inches forward and that's approximately where the 3.7 liter engine mount will have to go.
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Will do. I'm definitely going to have to get into the floor and see how the stringer(s) are laid out. I'll need to build a new engine mount obviously.
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I have the following 470 parts, they're yours if you want them
Coupler, appears to be in good condition
Exhaust elbow
Transom plate, not sure if it will except power steering or not
Upper Drive, appears to be locked up may or may not be rebuildable
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And the bracket with the shift interrupter switch in the reverse lockout
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Joe! PM Sent.
As of now...I have a little figuring to do. I need at a minimum, 32" from the transom mounting bolts vs. the 26" inches that the 3.0L takes up. That means cutting...and I'm not sure I'm willing to do that with Barfly. If it wasn't in such good shape...no problem. No so sure...could cut it, and use the seat backrest to hold it all together.
However, as you can see, the bench would more considerably forward, to the point of being unusable.
Decisions...
(http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/dorelse/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-09/20160904_133751_zpsozwxil6h.jpg)
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I know the feeling Doran. When we were wanting to repower Phoenix the 3.7 was an option until I got the measurements from Rich. If we would have went that way heavy fabrication work would have been performed and a sun pad, rear bench and bucket seats installed.
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There was room in my boat for the engine because the hood and engine bay were designed to accept in-line 6 engines. Look at the relation between the front of the mounts and the seats/side upholstery when comparing my original engine to the 3.7 liter. The 3.7 mount is about 6 inches further forward.
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Yep, I was hoping that the 6" was going to be 'low' underneath that cross brace and I could make run under the bench. I'll save this motor for something else. Its been a fun project.
I'll need to winterize this one soon I suppose. Should be quite easy right? Drain heat exchanger...done, right?
Barfly is back together. Ready for the trip to MN for storage.
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I'll need to winterize this one soon I suppose. Should be quite easy right? Drain heat exchanger...done, right?
Treat the gas, run and fog it out, drain the heat exchanger through the rear-most drain plug and refill with RV non-tox antifreeze. When refilling you can pour it in through the rear hose at the exhaust elbow until it comes out through the front inlet hose. Make sure the engine has good Prestone 50/50 and not just water.
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FYI Rich - Your motor's in Canada getting fixed:
http://rosseauroad.ca/service/marine-service/ (http://rosseauroad.ca/service/marine-service/)
I found another avenue to send them a message (through facebook) and message was received - they removed the photo from their web site.
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Awesome!
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