Author Topic: Marks new motor  (Read 6094 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline OleRed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1688
    • Oklahoma Boating Group
Marks new motor
« on: March 18, 2013, 01:22:11 AM »
Try'd out Marks motor today, done pretty good, I'll let him fill in details

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ceEnIn8wo8&feature=youtu.be
1980 23ft Scimitar

Offline MarkS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1062
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2013, 04:27:03 AM »
Looks and sounds great Red, Mark!
Mark
1978 SSV-176

Offline friscoboater

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2013, 11:23:52 AM »
Awesome
Check out my Carlson Restoration @ youtube.com/frisojarretts

Offline catchnedge

  • Donate members
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2013, 11:25:04 AM »
First of all I would like to say a huge THANK YOU to Red for his willingness to help with this project, his many hours of hard work to get this done so I could trailer it home and not have to make another trip from San Antonio, and incredible expertise with everything marine related that got this engine installed in short order and working like a race horse.  I would also like to say thanks to Georgia for putting up with my intrusion and my project keeping Red busy just about every minute of those days, and for the hospitality.

Got one seasons use out of it, but the old 455 was tired, had a cracked block, and the jet drive needed a complete overhaul requiring the engine to be out.  So, I’ve had the idea of having the 455 rebuilt for some time.  In talking with Red about it, he saw a fresh rebuilt 455 in OKC that met the requirements, so I pulled the trigger, bought it, and had it brought to Reds… he has been storing if for a few months and was willing to do the swap out for me when the timing was right.

Last Sunday, weather forecast was good for the week, so I made the trip to Reds.  Had the opportunity to meet Gary, great guy, and what a fantastic job Red is doing on that Scimitar.  We pulled the engine on Monday morning… didn’t take long, and I was on the road to Shell Knob MO (HI-TECH Performance) to have them rebuild the pump.  It’s a good thing I had the pump rebuilt when I did, cause it was on its last leg… thrust bearing was failing (main reason I was hearing the tumbling noise and vibration in floor), they sleeved the drive shaft as it had grooves (wobble) on the bowl bushings, the impeller was bent, packing gland was shot, seals shot and no seal was present around nozzle.  I had them rebuild it, installed new AA impeller for bigger bite (which they can lathe/cut down if needed for more rpms), powder coat bowl, and install a pressure reduction valve set up with overflow.  The pump was done and ready for pick up in two days (while I visited relatives in St. Louis), and I was back in OKC by Wed night late with the boat in tow.  I was expecting to leave the boat with Red for a few weeks/month, till he was done with the Scimitar project, but he said let’s get at it as it won’t take that long!

Over the next few days the new engine was prepped, checked, marinized, assembled, tested, cam broken in and installed by Red with me helping the master mechanic where I could.  I secured a couple of thick aluminum plates to the floor and tapped bolt holes to secure seats down… so they’re solid again.  Red checked just about everything (including the floor, stingers, and transom which got a healthy thumbs up and needed no repair,  ;D) There were many items needing attention, however, like the universal joint had a bad bearing that was replaced.  Red took some great pictures and videos he is sharing and I’m sure glad because I can’t find my camera?... I could feel an increased acceleration with the new engine and pump set up and I know we were haulin’ though I didn’t have gps with me, we were guessing high 50s.  I’ll let you know once I clock it  ;).  Yesterday’s lake test was not the best conditions… it was cold, misting rain, and windy, but Red got it dialed in regardless and got me on my way home.  Got home last night and still trying to unpack.  It will be a few weeks before I get the new carpet in and get things buttoned up, but we should be in good shape for this summer.

I’ll try to get some pictures of the jet drive too, if I could ever find my camera?... but again, THANKS to Red for making this happen!
Mark

edit:  sorry, forgot to say thanks to Barb as well... she came over a few times to say hi and see what we were doing, helped us at the ramp and brought us lunch one day!  Thanks Barb, and good seeing  you.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2013, 01:09:17 PM by catchnedge »
Mark
'62 Surflite 153 Hardtop, '63 Evinrude Lark III--"Gator 62"
'74 CV-16 Outboard, '86 Merc 90ELPTO--"Green Light"
'87 CVX-16 Outboard, '88 Johnson 120--
'97 Pro-Line 202 Sportsman, '06 Yamaha 150hp--"At Ease"

Offline dorelse

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5988
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2013, 04:13:38 PM »
Looks & Sounds awesome guys!!!
1990 Sierra 1700

Offline GIL_CV21

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 220
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2013, 06:03:00 PM »
Congrats Mark , looks good and sounds strong , spring and summer are just around the corner , it looks like your gonna have good time boating this year !!! Gil

Offline Glastronjohn18

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 960
  • project in progress
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2013, 12:19:22 AM »
Wow,Fantastic ride you have there. Great job done by all. That would have been a lifetime of work for me.
John
'80 CVX 18 - Survivor Class
'78 CVX 18
'76 V 225 -   Bal Harbor
'80 V195XL
'86 CVX 18- And '86 Makes 3

Offline catchnedge

  • Donate members
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2013, 10:03:55 AM »
Thanks guys. 

Hope you all get on the water soon!
Mark
'62 Surflite 153 Hardtop, '63 Evinrude Lark III--"Gator 62"
'74 CV-16 Outboard, '86 Merc 90ELPTO--"Green Light"
'87 CVX-16 Outboard, '88 Johnson 120--
'97 Pro-Line 202 Sportsman, '06 Yamaha 150hp--"At Ease"

Offline Hotwired

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1306
  • The Ship
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2013, 10:36:38 AM »
Sounds like a really fun week all in all!  The Results are going to be enjoyed for years to come I am sure.  I watched the lake video and the engine start video and felt the chills run down my back as I watched you out on the lake.  Brrrr!  I am curious to see what your speed comes up to be as well.  These old Jets may not be the fastest around but they sure are fun to drive!

Congratulations on a job well done!  There are surely many envious readers here!
.. it is what it is ... and that is how it should be!
Miss Mayberry - 1964 Saberflite
The Ship - 1979 CV-27
Canon Ball Eyes - 1976 CV-16ssV8
Da ProJect Bote - 1977 CV-23
It Is What It Is...... CVX20

Offline thedeuceman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3359
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2013, 11:55:56 AM »
Sounds and looks great...
have never owned a boat before last year but i was always in awe of hearing the stories of "olds 455 / jet"
just too cool...
who knows may end up with one some day  ;D
Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
75 CV-16V8, Project
74 CV-16... its Purple !

Offline bellj

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 237
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2013, 08:56:28 AM »
I was traditionally raised in a Ford family with quite a few 460's, but many years ago already I learned a lot of respect for the Old's series of Big-Blocks (in fact all these years later we enjoy a GM 8.1L in our motorhome where our previous one had a Ford 460)!

My friend had a rare Switzer GL-20 jet with a Old's 403 that we blew up, then transplanted in a 455 from a 1972 Old's Toronado donor - wasn't bad, although it still sucked 40 gallons fuel/hour - but as I'm sure Red would tell you, you just can't take a stock engine that lived it's life happily at 2000 - 4000 RPM max and suddenly start pushing twice that in a marine application! Didn't take long for it to self destruct... (When we heard the first definite inevitable death crack, my friend just said "the hell with it" and tromped on the foot throttle...if I remember correctly, one of the rods came right out the side of the block)

It was decided to rebuild it right. After many replacement and upgrade parts, performance wise it paid off - not only in what you felt in the seat of your pants (and we thought it was good before!), but also to our surprise, you could actually hear the secondaries in the Quad shut down during normal cruise and the fuel consumption dropped to roughly 20 gallons/hour!!

So I saw first hand what amazingly gifted engine builders like my friend, and people like Red, can accomplish! They're worth their weight in Gold!!   ;)

Congratulations Mark - I know that you will really enjoy that new engine!   :)

Post note regarding mentioned Switzer: Not that we would have changed anything, but we might have overdone it too in the hands of a different pilot. That first Switzer was (regretfully) sold and lost track of (in fact my search for it all these years later a few years ago is how I wound up with a related GL-20 outboard version to possibly rebuild someday). My research showed that not only were there only a handful of jets built of that series (plus we knew how this specific jet was specially built for a gentlemen who's wife had ordered it and her husband unfortunately past away from his cancer before they took delivery). Anyway, I ran across a report on the internet that a boat matching that description broke apart and sunk during an impromptu boat race on a lake not that terribly far from here. I will probably always wonder if that was the same boat that we had rebuilt.   :(
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 08:58:26 AM by bellj »
Jim, Patti, & Samantha
'69 Pipestone Princess O/B, '57 Evinrude Lark 35
'77 Glastron GT-150 O/B, '78 Merc 700, "The Puddle Jumper"
'77 Switzer GL-20 O/B, '77 Merc 1750
'86 Glastron CVX-20 O/B, '86 Merc 200, "The WHIZZard of Odds"

Offline Rosscoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4444
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2013, 09:39:27 AM »
Sounds fantastic! Now there is a guy who truly enjoys his work and who wouldn't.
Red, question...where do you tap in your garden hose to run it out of the water?   
Ross
61 Surflite 1964 90HP Johnson project
67 V163 Bayflite Super Sport  1989 100HP Merc
67 V164 Bayflite 120HP
67 V174 Crestflite Rat Rod
71 V175 Crestflite 350ci -Jet
73 GT 160
84 CVX 17  83 115 Merc
88 CVX-23 350 Mag

Offline V153

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4970
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2013, 03:08:34 PM »
Sounds fantastic!
Effen A! Sound, and speed too, are purty good indicators of how well a motor is running. Without having to revert to those annoying dails & guages ...
'81 C500_given away, bought back_75.1 mph
'81 Baja 15SS_140 Frankenrude_66.7 mph
'70 something SpeedCraft_(Allison 16R Clone)_69.0 mph
'79 CVZ19_given away
'71 V153_54.8 mph_wrecked


WALK TALL AND CARRY A BIG BILGE PUMP

Offline OleRed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1688
    • Oklahoma Boating Group
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2013, 03:13:05 PM »
don't run the motor in the boat on a garden hose for any length of time, a minute is a Long Time to a pump packing with no water pushing against it.
I shove the water in a motor on the stand through the raw water inlet on the thermostat housing, or into the inlet on the cross-over pipe if it's set up that way, but I don't think it's good ro run a jet application in the boat for more than a few seconds.
1980 23ft Scimitar

Offline catchnedge

  • Donate members
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2013, 09:00:13 PM »
Thanks all!

You jet drive folks might like some of this info.  Duane Oblander, owner of HI-TECH Performance in MO, gave me plenty of pointers to keep the pump running strong, including some things that void the warranty on his work.  Seems like they are a race boat oriented business (one of the jet boats in their lobby does 120mph), so they are concerned with every little detail that will detract from performance... that's a good thing, right?!  This has been his hobby turned into a business for some 40 years... here are a few things he told me to do/not to do,  See attached picture/list he gave me as well.

1. NEVER spin the impeller (run the engine) on the trailer off a garden hose!  Red is correct... even with water hose attached, water only gets to part of the pump, the packing gland up front on pump does not get lubricated properly causing damage to it, and the pump itself is hydraulically balanced... so if it's not pulling/pushing water like when it's in the lake, it's putting wear on the wear ring that wouldn't be there otherwise.
2. The break in procedure was to allow the new thrust bearing to properly SEAT.  Hammering on the throttle before that has taken place will allow the impeller to jump slightly causing gouged wear on the wear ring.  
3. He also told me that an air pocket forms when you back the boat in the water, as the water tries to enter from both sides of pump (intake and nozzle sides).  Until the pump is all the way full of water, if you start it up... you're running the impeller/seals dry (or not as wet as it should be)... causing more wear.  It helps to have the throttle lever in the forward position when you back it into the water, so the bucket is in the UP position, therefor allowing water to run into the nozzle (back of pump) quicker, eliminating more quickly this air pocket.
4. I'll have to start carrying the grease gun with me so I can grease the thrust bearing when I take the boat out of the water as he suggested... see attachment.
5. He strongly recommended that I build and attach some kind of plate to the trailer, that will deflect road debris from entering the intake when trailering down the road.  The debris collects next to the  impeller, and will grind away at the wear ring if it's not avoided or cleaned out prior to start up... and it only takes a few seconds of run time for the damage to be done.  They had the intake taped with plastic and duct tape when I picked it up... with a piece of tape on the steering wheel so I wouldn't forget to remove it before running :)   That's on my TO DO list.  Of course I coudn't get that done before I left Red's, so I'll try to make sure it's cleaned out best I can before the next run.
6. My old impeller had a big dent in one blade... he said it was from sucking up rocks.  I don't know if I did that, or previous owner... but makes me think more about avoiding or going easy in shallow water!

Duane acknowledged that not everyone does the things he talked about, but he also said that many don't realize the kind of performance that they can/could get if they did.  All good stuff to know IMHO regardless if you can do them all the time.

Apparently the earlier jet drives also did not have a seal around where the nozzle fits into back end of bowl... mine never had one, so they machined a place for one to fit in there to better seal it... better seal, more thrust where you want it.

Good source of info/parts if you need them for a jet drive... here is their web site:  http://hi-techperformance.com/   These guys went out of their way to help me as well... met me after shop was closed so I could pick up the boat.  I would definitely use them again.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2013, 09:02:31 PM by catchnedge »
Mark
'62 Surflite 153 Hardtop, '63 Evinrude Lark III--"Gator 62"
'74 CV-16 Outboard, '86 Merc 90ELPTO--"Green Light"
'87 CVX-16 Outboard, '88 Johnson 120--
'97 Pro-Line 202 Sportsman, '06 Yamaha 150hp--"At Ease"

Offline Rosscoe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4444
Re: Marks new motor
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2013, 06:27:19 AM »
Great info. Never thought about getting debris up there during transport. I'll be making something up to cover it especially since I live on a dirt road!
I'd sure like to come up with a way to run it on the trailer, to run it in the spring and before winterizing but I don't know how you could even make a tank to submerge enough of it. That kinda sucks.
Ross
61 Surflite 1964 90HP Johnson project
67 V163 Bayflite Super Sport  1989 100HP Merc
67 V164 Bayflite 120HP
67 V174 Crestflite Rat Rod
71 V175 Crestflite 350ci -Jet
73 GT 160
84 CVX 17  83 115 Merc
88 CVX-23 350 Mag