Don't you hate it when that happens ...?

[GIL_CV21]

She looks so barren, and vulnerable ...

Needs something big and black on her to keep her safe lol J/K . You'll have back up an runnin in no time Doug !

[V153]

Well the second half of our plan din't work out so well. Turns out Mark was a lot prouder of that motor than I was led to believe. Plus he wanted me to take all the 'spare' parts I didn't want or need.

Oh well, no biggy. Came home'n autopsied the 140. In all my years of monkeying around with these crossflows I've never seen one fail quite like this.

Bottom end crank bearing's balls fell out ...  Afore mentioned balls were consequently ground through the connecting rod bearing(s) in #4 cyl. Ultimately causing the failure.

Plan now is to have that cylinder bored .020 to match one'a the pistons from my 90.

[Burnin Daylight]

Just a crazy thought but, for some reason an unmatched set of pistons and different sized cylinders in the same block seems like it would be unbalanced? Am I misunderstanding that?

[V153]

Don't think the motor will notice it much Barb. People do it all the time. That's what counterbalancers are for.

'Member these old crossflows are purty primative to begin with. It'll be okay, trust me ...

[V153]

Just messin with ya. We will be boring all 4 cylinders to match the 020 Wisecos outa the 90.

[Rosscoe]

Could be headed in a different direction now. 'Membered my buddy Mark has a '86 90 with some ignition problem(s) he couldn't figger out. He'n Bobby Beer were monkeying around with it, then Mark stumbled upon & stole a 19' Larson w/140 looper from some old widow.

Anyway he's willing to let the 90 go cheap. So the plan is to run up to his house & check compression. If it looks okay we're gonna load her up & bring her home.

Bein a '86 means it's prop rated, of course. Which also means it has the larger, higher, ports. Which in turn means I kin bolt my carbs & exhaust on and have 140 @ the prop. Hopin it works out.

But first I gots to gets busy and build me another motor stand, or two. Gots my chop saw'n plenty of 2 be 4 down at the shop. Guess I could hang a motor on the Carlson temporarily? But that just wouldn't be right ...


ps. Here's an easy to read plan for building a motor stand:

   

That plan looks like the same one I used for 2 of the 3 stands I have, except for the hand written dimensions.

[V153]

Yup, same stand Ross. I see you added another 2 x 4 to the bottom. Problem with height?

But back to the motor: Been doin alotta research, talked to an ole buddy Jeff Jones today, who built racing OMCs way back when. He says it's no problem boring just one cylinder, you just gotta grind some material off to balance it with the others. He said they would shoot for no more than 10 grams difference tween pistons.

Now I'm kicking myself for giving up that old triple beam after I quit dealing ... Dang it! Ah well 'Hazard Fraught' Tools probly sells some kinda semi-accurate scale. And they gotta new retail store open in North Port, not far away. Gonna run over there soon'n peruse their wares.

Over & out   

   

[MarkS]

But back to the motor: Been doin alotta research, talked to an ole buddy Jeff Jones today, who built racing OMCs way back when. He says it's no problem boring just one cylinder, you just gotta grind some material off to balance it with the others. He said they would shoot for no more than 10 grams difference tween pistons.

I've heard that discussion from some too Doug, and I guess it makes sense if you balance the "rotating assy's" to match in weight it may reduce the vibration some.  But if one hole is larger, the "balance" of the firing (torque?) is still gonna be different, isn't it?  I'm no outboard rebuilding expert, by any means.  But I do have the reservations Barb is talking about as well.  I know that Conrad Schmidt went to extensive effort to make his Merc XS screamer (now breaking the 80MPH mark!) balanced in every aspect to achieve longevity and power.  You've got a full set of pistons, right?  I know you're not building a race motor, but you gotta admit you do run 'em pretty hard!?!?   

Just my humble, uneducated, but sincere contribution.

[Rosscoe]

"Yup, same stand Ross. I see you added another 2 x 4 to the bottom. Problem with height?"

Honestly I don't know. Had extra wood? A height problem seems too obvious. This was supposed to fit a 20" pretty sure.

Yea why don't you just bore all the holes Doug? Seems like a PITA to be trying to balance it using other methods. Maybe a money saving move?

[V153]

Definitely a cost cutting move Ross, this is my slow time of the year. But I had a fairly decent week so I splurged on a scale today. $35 bucks @ Office Depot. The results were interesting:

'83 140 w/stock pistons (Note these weights include connecting rods)

#1  1220g
#2  1215
#3  1225
#4  1215

'78 140 w/020 Wisecos

#1  1075g
#2  1090
#3  1080
#4  1080

'86 90 w/020 Wisecos

#1  1085g
#2  1105
#3  1095
#4  1090

Interesting the 90 has that 20g difference 'tween #1 & 2? I doubt it ever noticed or cared too much. And I'd be willing to bet that motor'd still be running if not for the water jacket failure.

So, judging by the data it's safe to say the Wisecos are ~150 grams lighter than stock. Multiply that by 4 & that's 600 grams, and that's over 1 1/4 lbs. If'n yer as anal bout weight as I am I'd say that's purty substantial? We also discovered the '78 crank(s) are bout 3 lbs lighter than the '83 & '86. So you can imagine which we'll be installing.

Fyi a stock piston w/rings weighs around 690g.

 



 

[Hyperacme]

I would go with the beefier crank !
Might be more rotating mass ... but you spin them beyond red line !

But maybe a lighter crank would spin more rpm's ?

My 1994 Johnson 60 HP had one bad cylinder, so Supreme Marine bored it out 30 over and left the other two untouched.
Didn't own it long enough to comment on longevity of motor ...
But it was a strong runnin' little motor ...

[GCarlover]

As long as you're down, consider Boyesen reeds.  If they have your model on Ebay they are 30% cheaper.  Make sure they are Boyesen's, not remakes.  Take your time, clean the threads.  Use Loctite and good gasket sealer.  Don't over tighten.

[Jerry]

Chrtis Carson makes the best reed valves, and he's right down there in FL.
http://www.chriscarsonmarine.com/index.htm

[V153]

Chrtis Carson makes the best reed valves, and he's right down there in FL.
http://www.chriscarsonmarine.com/index.htm

Well a lil further south Jerry, Key Largo is a bit of a haul from here. I do plan on using his reeds when we start on the hi-po 140 project, but right now I just gotta get sumpthin runnin.

Nothing against Boyesens GC, just think Chris's stuff's a lil more high performance oriented.

[GCarlover]

The Boyesens are dual stage, possibly for better idling.  Also the reed stops come off. Talk to whomever you get them from.  You'll need to enrich the idle circuit or they will pop back and burn.

[V153]

Bobby Beer stopped by tonight with a belated birthday gift. A '84 115 block he pulled outa somebody's backyard. Din't care much bout the rest of the motor, but we had high hopes the large journal crank would be okay. Sadly this was not the case. I've broken alotta stuff but never broke a crankshaft!? Yikes!

Silver lining is the block's okay, lil bit of shrapnel in #1 cyl but nothing too serious. Betting when the crank breaks they stop running purty fast ...?

Scheduled to have the '78 140 block back from CNR by the end of the week, and that's the direction we're leaning. So what if it's a small journal main bearing? The porting on that block is bad azz.

Stay 'tuned'

[MarkS]

Turns out I was wrong, AGAIN!  (No surprise, right?)

Had the opportunity to discuss the "boring only one hole" question with my most trusted outboard guy the other day, he said it's common practice.  When I voiced my concerns (stated earlier here) he advise that there is NO detrimental effects doing it that way.  Compression, power balance, etc. remain within tolerance when done properly.

My apologies for the confusion Doug, carry on.     Any updates?

[V153]

Any updates?

Sadly not much to report. Still waiting for word from CNR on the 140 Erude block. However I'm going to look at my buddy Kevin's '93 88 Special tomorrow am. Think I mighta told ya he just bought a new 115 Etec?

The 88 runs but supposedly has low comp on one cyl. How Kevin would know that is beyond me cuz he ain't mechanically inclined. Me thinks mebbe the guy tryin to sell him the new motor came up with it?

Anyway. I can pick it up for a couple hunnert bucks so it might be worth it. Even if it has to come apart. Gotta lotta new parts: Know for a fact it has a new trim pump on it. And speaking of trim, being a '93 means it's "Fastrac". Twice as fast as earlier models.

In honor of it's possible arrival I built another motor stand, and hung some new shelves in the lab ...

[Hyperacme]

Startin' to look like an J/E dealer in your shop Doug !
The fast trac is worth a couple hundred ... Good score !

[V153]

Startin' to look like an J/E dealer in your shop Doug !

J/E junk dealer's more like it Gregg. I got more gouged up, bent & broken crap than you can shake a worn out connecting rod at ...

But we try to remain optomistic. Note the cleared off operating table with fresh towel/tablecloth ...?