Author Topic: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread  (Read 32598 times)

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Offline Retro Performance

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2017, 10:29:16 PM »
I have not had one of these hulls apart but I am pretty sure that some of the go fast builders in the 70's used a resin "putty" to fill the strakes before laying glass.......thinking I have seen that in Checkmates.......Then again my memory is as old as I am so..................?

Offline 75starflight

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2017, 09:59:29 AM »
My 1978 CVZ-18 has the center strake filled in as the CVZ-18 does not have a center stringer and has a belly fuel tank. This is done from the factory with that same green looking filler.
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline 17ireid

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2017, 07:04:06 PM »
Thank you for the contribution on the filler but, I really don't believe this filler to be original. After sanding the bottom through the ablative paint (which hid a lot of damage)I found marks of a repair and no gel coat. the  filler is different then all the other original filler in the boat. More reason to believe is the known external damage on the bottom from a very hard impact and the  extensive and poorly executed repairs. Either way the damage is there and I'm finding it hard to justify continuing this project at this time. It's amazing how well hidden all of this was in a boat that seemed like such a good candadite.

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2017, 10:33:34 PM »
Every project whether it's automotive, marine, home, or whatever will always seem to become more daunting the more you tear into it.  From your beginning review you had big dreams of what your project would become, but now your in deep enough to question the validity of the project.  Some do them for resale, some for sentimental reasons, others for the love of producing something.  My advice would get it torn down, nothing left to hide, then decide how to proceed.  I have a tendency to take on the real hard luck projects that most won't touch, so I tend to be more optimistic in my advice.  Major hull damage may be a deal breaker, plenty of others out there that may work better.  Who knows, you might find a twin that has a perfect hull, but a bad top?  Best of luck, Michael.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline 17ireid

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2017, 06:38:58 AM »
A fair warning this is a long post. I'm going to break it into two posts.

Well after a week of thinking what I want to do and some persuasion from my Dad (even though he said trash it at first XD) I'm continuing the project. I know I'm never going to get another one at least now, and I know I really want to go 55 on water at some point in my life. After I put the cap back on and stood back It reminded me why I bought it, because it looks so damn cool (This is also why my Dad said go with it). I guess when it's done it'll be even more emotional knowing you truly took it from the grave.

So last class I got started cleaning up and getting ready to patch the damage I uncovered. I'm leaving the other 3 strakes the way they are as they seem pretty solid and don't show damage underneath.

 Anyway I started off with an acetone wipe of the damage and back portion Im now using a mini (2") orbital sander with some aggressive grit to feather everything down. Also peeling up any glass I can easily get a 5 in 1 under and grinding the edge off to make sure nothing is weak. The plan going forth is sand the bottom of the strake as well and then acetone wipe again. Then on the inside using infusion polyester and chop strand for the first 2 layers and then roving, CSM,alternating until Im satisfied. Fill with poly, cabosil, and some cut up glass probably. Want to match the other side it also seems to add some rigidity in the rear. After the filler I'll lay up a CSM and Roving layer covering the entire rear area of the bilge to hold everything in. Then mist with PVA. The outside will be built up with csm until I get enough to sand flush. Any comments from the more experienced on this plan of action.


Offline 17ireid

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2017, 06:56:51 AM »
Part 2:

Now for the most dreaded question of any boating forum. I haven't been able to find the information I've wanted for a long time. It's down the road but I'm either going to paint (Automotive BB/CC, either custom shop (which I hear is just rebranded PPG) or the SPI that fireman uses) or gelcoat. Being a Glastron the two tone adds some difficulty. Also the CVX 16 is a very complex shape, more so than some others, with its moulded striped swoosh and vent up front. I feel bad starting this thread being all like Im going to make this all originally and flip flopping about as things get difficult.

Looking for some opinions for each and some thoughts & concerns I have.

Gelcoat: I like the durability, longevity, originality, and price. However, i'm worried about the excessive thickness over the existing gelcoat, and not being able to catch all the damage, crazing cracks and damage is everywhere on my boat, and after all the work gel coating just to get cracking and spider webbing soon after. The masking and sanding kind of scares me as well, I don't want to mess it up.

Paint: I like the flexibility (not cracking like gelcoat might), how good it looks, with BB/CC two tone will be a snap. The price is a little steeper which is not a gigantic concern but I take it into account. I have more time than money. I'm concerned about it's durability and longevity, this will be a trailer boat not staying in the water for more than a day. Which is good because paint but also I worry the trailer may wear the paint off the bottom/front. Originality isn't a big concern, but I'm worried about painting with flake, I don't want to mess that up, or use many gallons of clear. So I might go for a pearl or metallic finish.

So in the end Im looking for the system that will look good the longest. I know gelcoat may hold on and buff up for 50 years but I don't want it if it's cracking up in 3 years. Paint I hear lasts between 3-20 years, I don't want to do this again soon. This is probably like 3rd time I've asked this and I'm very sorry for that. Please point out anywhere I'm misinformed and any opinions and experiences with both systems and how'd it'd apply to me thank you!!

Offline Oldfishguy

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2017, 09:07:20 AM »

Good for you!

I always wanted to pipe in on this but I thought you were leaning towards abandoning the project.  And your heart has to be in it, or you never finish.

I think you would find that none of our boats are perfect. In some ways they are functionally better than came out of the factory.  (You will undoubtedly make room for a bilge pump)  But we are a group of users, and not garage queen show boats.  I think we all try to keep them show worthy but it won't take long before that first ding shows up with use.  Believe me, all of us that have pulled up floors are quite aghast at what we find underneath.

So, now that you're down to the core and the bull work of cleanup, it is time for the fun part and put it back together.  The professionally quality painters will pipe in shortly, but as long as the boat is stored in proper storage (indoors, out of the constant sun) the paint will last your lifetime.

Best of luck.

David
   

1972 1/2 Glastron CV 16
1973 Chrysler 120

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2017, 09:59:08 AM »
Zoomed in on picture of crack in stake ...
What the heck happen there ?
Is it just on that one stake or cracks / gouges in others ?
Is the hull warped or twisted ?

Offline 17ireid

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2017, 10:36:53 AM »
Thank you for your encouragement, the thought of calling it quits hurt me more than helped. Thank you for the comment on the paint as well, if it does last than that would make it a very attractive option. Its hard finding a good argument for paint or gelcoat when its not specific to your case.

As for the damage, yeah I'm guessing the boat cleared over a rock, or fell off a moving trailer. Whatever it was it was a hard hit and the damage is in multiple places. That is the worst Ive found. The rest is just sheared of gel and glass. The bow has roofing tar as a patch  ::) can't wait to rip that up.

I'm not sure of the other strakes yet, the boat is ablative bottom painted for now so it may hide more. If the other strakes are damaged the fix seems pretty good physically so I may just leave them and make sure they stay that way. Surprisingly, the hull doesn't seemed too warped, the cap actually went on better the third time! For now Im leaving it on to hold the shape as I fix the gash. This boat has had a hard life.

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2017, 11:08:52 AM »
I just posted some stuff in my 23 thread about fixing spider cracks. They can come back in paint or gel. Its the glass that cracks then causes the paint or gel to crack as well. 

Any large damage areas you will want to grind out a big area. grind it down really thin in the worst area and the less and less as you move out. Start with small pieces of glass and then slowly get larger as you move away from the the bottom/ worst area. If your fixing a ping pong ball size hole you should fix an area the size of a softball.

My vote would be for paint. It is much easier and more user friendly. I would pretty much guarantee you will spend more on Gel then you would paint. Plus you need to completely sand out gel and buff it to get the smooth gloss finish after you are done painting.  There are many ways to do flake. You can spray it on dry into wet clear or you can add it into clear and spray it that way. I have done both and each work. spraying dry flake(need a flake gun) you waste more flake however it seams to cover faster and better.

If you do go with paint you could do a single stage paint. instead of 2 stage base clear. They make metallic paint in single stage as well. It would be harder if you wanted to do flake with single stage. On my 23 I did single stage for the white and then cleared it when I did the flake.  As you mentioned I am somewhat concerned about the wear from the bunks on the trailer. However if you look at a lot of the go fast high end boats. They are pretty much all painted with base clear.

Just my thoughts. 

Good luck on your project and remember its will still be a lot cheaper than a new boat!  Im heading out now to do some more bodywork.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Full Resto complete
1976 CV-16 V8 Resto in progress
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2017, 11:07:39 AM »
Happy Birthday 17iried !

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2017, 11:59:48 AM »
Happy B-Day Isaiah
Shawn is correct about cost and ease of paint.
when i did my 1900 i spent lots of time estimating material cost and it appeared to me paint would cost more, but in the end it was not true, first thing i did not consider was how much sand paper is required to sand the gel down.
i also spent several hours on the phone with Old Red, a man with vast knowledge and experience on the subject, he also suggested i use paint. but because i really wanted to try gel-coat and wanted to use big square flake, i did it anyways.
my GT150 is painted, i repainted only a portion of it, have used it hard for 4 years and its holding up just fine. though with paint if ya hit a dock or something it will scratch easier than gel.

that said the next one i do will prob get paint.
Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
75 CV-16V8, Project
74 CV-16... its Purple !

Offline dorelse

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2017, 12:59:16 PM »
Paint it!  :D
1990 Sierra 1700

Offline Retro Performance

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2017, 07:16:33 AM »
I did this hull in clear/purple flake some years back with paint..........couple years ago it got a refresh with new structure and gel (same bags of flake)........I think the gel looks better but could just be prep/application......all my non flake stuff is paint

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2017, 07:46:57 AM »
      I would recommend automotive paint, cost wise, Paintforcars.com has the best price for materials.   Paint will be quick and inexpensive, and much easier to finish and repair given the uncertain nature of your hull structure post repair.  Cracking will occur, how bad is tied to hull integrity and how hard you push it.  Go with a simple BC/CC and if all goes well, prep and shoot a clear with flake later.  What I found was that I needed to use a large tip(primer) to pass the flake size.  This caused orange peel which is a benefit when shooting flake, it holds the flake at many different angles.  Let the build up continue with several coats, then switch to clear alone and lay down several wet coats.   With some wet sanding and further coats of clear the finish will smooth out and the flake will look awesome.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline 17ireid

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2017, 10:13:36 AM »
Thank you for the birthday wishes and all the information. Sounds like paint is the way to go, I was a little surprised, but hey I can't argue with less work and money.

Plugcheck: I have looked at  paintforcars before and it looks very attractive. I think you were the first to mention it to me the last time I asked this question. Is it a decent product? I haven't been able to get a real answer on durability. Their testimonials look impressive but, of course they would. The whole ya get what ya pay for thing has me worried.

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2017, 11:19:30 AM »
      Cracking will occur, how bad is tied to hull integrity and how hard you push it. 

I disagree with you on this unless there is a stress point or weak spot it should not crack or spiderweb.  There are a lot of boats and a lot of cars with fiberglass parts and they are not cracked or spidered at all.  You have to cure the problem or they will come back. When I did my 18 there was a number of spider cracks. I repaired them all and drove that boat very hard for 2 years before selling it and there was no cracks in it.  Only a couple scratches from the dock and kids trying to put something in it.

I also glassed a fiberglass scoop on a steel hood and seen the car 2 years later at a show no cracks Pics below

Most of the reason there are stress cracks on the boats is because the stringers and floor are bad letting the hull flex. Or in the 23's case there are just some weak spots that cause it, even if the floor and stringers are good.

As for paint you get what you pay for. I have had really good luck with some and bad luck with some. A number of my friends drive cars I repaired for them years ago. Some of them have fading or chalky clear some don't. I don't recall anymore what brand I used on each one.  I have had good luck with the SPI products I mentioned to you. I have used them on a few projects and the CVX18 I did looked just as good years later as it did the day I painted it. They have rave reviews from a lot of the hot rod web sites, forums and builders. One thing to consider with clear is its ability to withstand UV. I dont know about u but boating is usually done when the sun is out. With the web now days you can research anything with a few clicks of a mouse. I a lot of times will type in what I am looking for and the word forum behind it. Then you can find different forums and see other peoples experience with a product.

Just my thoughts

Good luck on the project.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Full Resto complete
1976 CV-16 V8 Resto in progress
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2017, 01:23:36 PM »
I just looked at the paint for cars website, they do have a fairly wide range of products available, and their top-of-the-line Products seem to be priced in line with others that I have looked at.
My father-in-law had been painting with kirker products for quite a few years, what looks to be a well respected brand. But unfortunately he bought a whole lot of their cheapest clear and it didn't hold up very well over the years. Also there red single stage got chalky and faded real bad on the cars I had with it though I never waxed any of them so it might just be my fault.
When I compared prices and felt that Gel would be cheaper than paint. The paint comparison was top end basecoat clear-coat products.
Just to reiterate you get what you pay for


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Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
75 CV-16V8, Project
74 CV-16... its Purple !

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2017, 01:50:49 PM »
To clarify, my cvz 18 has been pushed pretty hard, and been reshot several times due to dock rash and beaching.  Still no glass cracking yet, but Tims GT was completely re done and finished and the transom connection cracked while trailering.    As for UV fade, my Z probably sees about 30 days a year in the sun.  Its not a question of products used, but what fits the needs of the craftsman.  I shot my show Baja in GM Torch red using the finest products DuPont had to offer in 1996, still looks fantastic today, but I knew then I would never part with it.  Those products were over $1500 then, I used about $400 in products to shoot the CVZ a few years back in two colors.  It is a learning experience, from which the Timi will benefit.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: 1980 CVX-16 Restoration Thread
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2017, 02:23:19 PM »
Ditto on the GT transom cracks, Obviously flexes there a lot, I'm not sure if mine came from trailer if or just that I beat the snot out of it. I was surprised because I added huge gussets to the transom.


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Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
75 CV-16V8, Project
74 CV-16... its Purple !