Author Topic: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful  (Read 10230 times)

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Offline David CVX-16

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Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« on: September 07, 2011, 01:40:28 PM »
Ran across this article on transom rebuilding which may be helpful. John Sutherland, from Ohio, professional boat restorer and refinisher.

http://www.boatdocktor.info/PREVIOUS_JOBS_IN_DETAIL.html
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 09:47:38 PM by David V-153 »
David
87' CVX-16, 85' 115 HP Johnson, 58.8 MPH GPS w/ 23" SRX Prop

Offline V153

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 03:00:09 PM »
Ironicly John's thinking about restoring a '68 V153 David! He recently posted on the CGOA site.
'81 C500_given away, bought back_75.1 mph
'81 Baja 15SS_140 Frankenrude_66.7 mph
'70 something SpeedCraft_(Allison 16R Clone)_69.0 mph
'79 CVZ19_given away
'71 V153_54.8 mph_wrecked


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Offline Jerry

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 04:05:19 PM »
Never use Epoxy on a fiberglass boat, they came from the factory made of polyester, and Marine plywood is a waste of money. I bet he charges a lot to do a transom.
Wish he would do it right.
'72 Glastron GT160 Sport - Okie-Dokie
'63 Winner - Grandpa's Fisn-Bote
'63 Glasspar SeaFair Sunliner - Mischief Maker

Offline David CVX-16

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 04:46:02 PM »
Doug, John Sutherland asked my advice about the value of restoring a V-153 Glastron and then reselling it. I read your response on the CGOA site and agree with you. He must have got my e-mail somehow.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 04:55:29 PM by David V-153 »
David
87' CVX-16, 85' 115 HP Johnson, 58.8 MPH GPS w/ 23" SRX Prop

Offline Jerry

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 08:48:30 PM »
If you want a local boat restorer that's nationally respected, try John Monahan at "the boat works" in Little Falls.
'72 Glastron GT160 Sport - Okie-Dokie
'63 Winner - Grandpa's Fisn-Bote
'63 Glasspar SeaFair Sunliner - Mischief Maker

Offline dorelse

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2011, 09:09:16 PM »
I think this has been a long running debate...epoxy vs. polyester...but I was referred to this article a while ago and I tend to believe it.

http://www.c-cyachts.com/images/company_assets/512F1C7F-0D64-4A5E-9D91-785DC064755F/16cf4_Adv_of_Epoxy_v_Poly.pdf

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Offline wexrocks

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2011, 09:40:49 PM »
Yeah, I'm not really sure why or where the debate comes from... every time the answer is the same, backed by numerous different examples of physical and chemical fact... for restorations, bonding to existing cured materials of any kind, it's epoxy, no question. Will polyester and vinylester bond well enough in a 30-40mph boat and hold up? probably. depends on what you're building and what you need it to do. Yes, these hulls are built from these materials, but if the same material doesn't bond in a patch or rebuild, doesn't really matter, does it? debate is exactly that, but just be honest with yourself, if you're building a classic 15' boat that will never see more than 30mph and you wanna save a few bucks, by all means, use the cheaper alternative. If your building a performance boat of any kind (let's use an example this site can appreciate: CVX-20 Sprint, Intimidator, Scimitar, CVX-18, CVZ, etc.) with any kind of horsepower (stock or above, in any of those examples) and you are concerned about the safety of yourself and your passengers, and concerned about the longevity of your restoration, then spend the money on the epoxy. i've had to choose based on application myself, so I understand. But really, it's pretty simple. Base it on application, and base your decision on fact, not opinion. if someone "thinks" it will be ok, and it's not... then what?   
'79 CVZ-19 "convertible" w/Evinrude 175
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Offline Jerry

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 10:54:21 PM »
I know, I don't know crap, but Vinyl-ester has the same strength as epoxy if that's what you're worried about. anybody that has seen a transom fall of anything because it was installed with poly or standard exterior plywood raise your hand. Your boat, do what you want to, but you can't patch over it (or if you're re-doing one someone else did) with poly if some guy used epoxy. That old "strength" thing is way over rated. spend the money if you want. It's not the right way to do it regardless who tells you it is. The strength is in the fiberglass, not the resin. Ya want strong use Kevlar.
'72 Glastron GT160 Sport - Okie-Dokie
'63 Winner - Grandpa's Fisn-Bote
'63 Glasspar SeaFair Sunliner - Mischief Maker

Offline dorelse

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2011, 12:14:19 AM »
Well...I'll say this...I went with Polyester Resin b/c its OEM material and much cheaper...and I used exterior grade plywood on my floors and wouldn't hesitate to use it on my transom.

I think its fine...you are correct (and I hadn't thought of it) is that if you ever had to work on the patched area...you're pretty committed to Epoxy from there on in.  

So...I'm not 'all in' on Epoxy...and at $200 a sheet for marine grade plywood (Des Moines prices are crazy sometimes)...that'll never be an option either.

I just wish I had a shop not attached to the house...b/c it smells so bad...
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 08:55:58 AM by dorelse »
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Offline MarkS

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2011, 05:36:49 AM »
Quote
I just wish I had a shop not attached to the house...b/c it smells so bad...
I second THAT emotion, Doran!!!  ;D
Mark
1978 SSV-176

Offline wexrocks

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2011, 09:13:44 AM »
I know, I don't know crap, but Vinyl-ester has the same strength as epoxy if that's what you're worried about. anybody that has seen a transom fall of anything because it was installed with poly or standard exterior plywood raise your hand. Your boat, do what you want to, but you can't patch over it (or if you're re-doing one someone else did) with poly if some guy used epoxy. That old "strength" thing is way over rated. spend the money if you want. It's not the right way to do it regardless who tells you it is. The strength is in the fiberglass, not the resin. Ya want strong use Kevlar.

nothing personal, and maybe I wasn't clear... the point I was making was that the poly and vinyl don't bond as well to the cured existing fiberglass hull. I wasn't debating strength, I think they're close enough across the board as far as that. and I don't think epoxy is necessary in every application, but as far as bonding, it's the best option. that's all. in a performance boat, I would want my stringers and transom to be attached by the best means possible.
'79 CVZ-19 "convertible" w/Evinrude 175
'81 Scimitar
'89 CSS-19

Offline wiliermdb

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2011, 09:20:21 AM »
Never use Epoxy on a fiberglass boat, they came from the factory made of polyester, and Marine plywood is a waste of money. I bet he charges a lot to do a transom.
Wish he would do it right.

What plywood do you recommend to use for floors and transoms? Most exterior grade I find in my area is junk in my opinion. If I have to pay $20 more for a sheet of marine ply and have a product that is smooth on all sides, no voids on the edges or inside then that's well worth the money to me. I figure if I use two sheets and spend an extra $40 - $50 and it last me 10 years then I'm out a whopping $5 per year.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 10:04:38 AM by dorelse »

Offline Jerry

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2011, 10:09:44 AM »
I'm not going to debate the "experts", but there has never been a problem with poly bonding to poly. Don't make an issue that doesn't exist. If you think that a previous repair may have been done with epoxy, you have no choice but to use epoxy, because poly won't bond to epoxy.

What looks like "junk" will work just fine. You can't break it, although you may have to fill some exposed voids with bondo for a smooth finish. I checked with Youngblood lumber who is the leading supplier of specialty plywood in this area 1/2" marine plywood is $74.56 let's just guess you can get by with 5 sheets that's $372. Home depot gets $11.58 for exterior grade 1/2" that's $58.  Your money, I don't care, but I would rather you gave that $300 to your local food shelf, where it really will make a difference.

The bottom line, I'm trying to help. When all is said, and the BS has been replaced with facts, it's your boat. You have to do what you're comfortable with. I just get very irritated when people make things up and call it fact.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 10:22:24 AM by Jerry »
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Offline dorelse

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2011, 10:29:40 AM »
I filled my knot holes/voids with my own peanut butter mix, sanded and glassed over it when I did the finish layer on my floor.  I also used a 3/4" plywood for added strength...I'm not worried b/c I didn't use marine grade...

Don't know if I did it right or not...but...that's what I did.

I didn't have a lot of voids on the topside side though, b/c I always picked sheets that had 1 really good side to them.  If someone wants to ding me for not filling the under side...that's fine with me!  (Prove I didn't  :)  )  I did seal the underside though...I'm confident that floor will outlast me.

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Offline wiliermdb

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2011, 12:07:31 PM »
Just ran to Lowe's & Home Depot in my town. Lowe's ply looked like it was drug from the supplier to here and had more voids than they stocked bondo. All of that for $24 per sheet. Drove over to HD and although the top and bottom was nicer than Lowe's, there were tons of edge voids. I could slide an entire car key inside of many of the voids.

Made a pass by a locally owned lumber yard that provides 60% of the lumber to the home builders and they can get me two sheets (12mm x 4 x 8) of Meranti BS1088 "Hydrotek" for $48 per sheet delivered. It will come in edge wrapped in cardboard for protection and ready for me to pick up in 7 - 10 business days when their regular delivery comes in. I can get my floor, new seat boxes for the buckets, rear seat frame and rear floatation boxes out of the two sheets. Very little waste with proper layout. (CVX 16).

Looks like I have a fall project lined up.  Getting ready to lay some fresh paint on the '77 Evinrude 115. My new seats will be done and installed around Thanksgiving and I'll finally be done.

Thanks for all the tips and info.

Offline Jerry

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2011, 01:52:20 PM »
I would say if you can buy peace of mind and happiness for under $100, it's well worth it. If you use Epoxy, don't tell me.
'72 Glastron GT160 Sport - Okie-Dokie
'63 Winner - Grandpa's Fisn-Bote
'63 Glasspar SeaFair Sunliner - Mischief Maker

Offline dorelse

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2011, 02:10:28 PM »
If you use Epoxy, don't tell me.

That made me laugh!  :D


How's Okie-Dokie coming along?

1990 Sierra 1700

Offline wexrocks

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2011, 05:12:45 PM »


Made a pass by a locally owned lumber yard that provides 60% of the lumber to the home builders and they can get me two sheets (12mm x 4 x 8) of Meranti BS1088 "Hydrotek" for $48 per sheet delivered.

not familiar at all with that product, maybe you are, I would just check with them (if you don't already know) to be sure that it is not treated in any way. with a name like Hydrotek, I would think there is the possibility.
'79 CVZ-19 "convertible" w/Evinrude 175
'81 Scimitar
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Offline Jerry

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2011, 07:15:03 PM »
How's Okie-Dokie coming along?

I'm learning a lot about gel-coat. When I get it figured out I'll share. What I put on won't get hard. I can't get a gloss. I have some ideas to get it right, stay tuned.
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'63 Winner - Grandpa's Fisn-Bote
'63 Glasspar SeaFair Sunliner - Mischief Maker

Offline OleRed

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Re: Transom Rebuild Article That May be Helpful
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2011, 07:58:00 PM »
Jerry,  that has happened to me with color, I sprayed it over with PVA and it cured, seems as though the color has to be sealed up right tight for it to cure, the pva provides a secure seal, and it washed right off with water, it's a releasing agent I use to seperate molds
1980 23ft Scimitar