Author Topic: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman  (Read 4909 times)

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Offline demian5

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Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« on: July 16, 2019, 01:10:50 PM »
I know many of you have done this, but I'm having a hard time putting a bunch of $$ into my boat that's not really worth anything.

I have a used complete motor I bought after dropping a valve in the one that came in the boat. I put that motor in and its got a ticking on cyl 3. When I adjust the exhaust valve or pull the plug wire it goes away but comes back when lifter adjusts or plug the wire back in. I went ahead and replaced the one lifter just to see, but same noise. Motor runs like a top, fires right up, 60 PSI oil pressure at 3000 RPM, 20 at idle with temp at 140 on the hose. I don't know what to think, as the motor looked rebuilt and ran very little when I pulled the pan off to swap to the pan and pickup from my boat. Doesn't sound like a rod, too much like a tapping, wrist pin? Piston Slap? Plenty of oil to the rockers too. Like I said everything looked great inside of the motor.

Stethoscope doesn't sound like anything hammering away either. timing at 6btdc, carb adjusted and idling solid at 950 rpm... no missing or anything when reving up to 2500-3000 on the hose. Oil pressure goes up as well and stays steady.

I'm going to run it this weekend at the river and see what happens.

I also have the old motor with a hammered #1 piston and a head with a hole in it from the valve.

My thoughts were to go ahead and rebuild the old bottom end and put the head from the newer motor on it.

What are your experience with reman complete vs getting one rebuilt?

Pistons, Rods and lifters same as a Small Block 350? Recommend a complete rebuild kit for me once I have the bearing sizes and piston oversizes? Upgrade cam? (besides aluminum gear).
1979 Glastron Carlson CVX 16 SS I/O Mercruiser 140 "Brick House"

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2019, 01:53:35 PM »
is the comp the same on all cyl ?
on the ex valve adjustment, the tick goes away when you loosen or tighten the adjuster ?
these are tough little motors, can go a long ways with a tick, or slap in them.
i here ya on the money angle... but these are cool boats, and most of us have kept them going for that reason.
good luck on the river, post a pix
Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
75 CV-16V8, Project
74 CV-16... its Purple !

Offline thewillets

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2019, 01:59:12 PM »
Sounds like you have covered the bases pretty well.
Engine runs solid, good oil pressure, slight ticking noise.
If you pulled the lifter, I assume you looked down at the cam lobe and it looked OK.
The underside of the rocker arm looks uniformly worn and the push rod is straight and good.
You adjusted the lifters and they all seem OK, run it for a while and check it again later.
I have run engines with a lot more than a slight ticking noise for many miles with little change over time.
Neil
1965 Futura 500 V164

Offline demian5

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2019, 02:27:08 PM »
Tick goes away when I tighten.

I did static at first to 1/2 turn like I do my small block chevy motors. Still ticked, static to 3/4 turn. Still ticked.

I read some places where its one full rotation after zero lash so I did it running and after loosening to clatter, take down to no clatter, then 1/4 at a time, tick would go away each rotation till the lifter adjusted.

Did them all 1 turn after 0 lash.

The OG motor that was in it, about a month before I bought the boat, on here, the PO posted "how to I rotate the motor, its stuck". So the old motor had some wear and lack of maintenance I believe. 3rd trip out, close to WOT pulling a tube and 4 people on the boat, #1 exhaust valve let go.

I am hoping old block is still good I wouldn't mind putting it together with all new stuff and slap the head on this motor on it and enjoy.

I am leery after that of needing a tow back after one of the runs this weekend, but I guess ill take my chances. I have to pull the motor anyways again, so if it breaks, then I am for sure using the old block crank and rods. I even posted on a river forum for the lower Colorado where we are going "if you see my boat floating, stop by and see if I need a tow to the dock"...
1979 Glastron Carlson CVX 16 SS I/O Mercruiser 140 "Brick House"

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2019, 02:27:46 PM »
" I know many of you have done this, but I'm having a hard time putting a bunch of $$ into my boat that's not really worth anything. "

Go to the Glastron web site and look at prices on even there cheapest boat .. $30,000 plus !
Maybe $500 per month ..

Your boat is WAY COOLER then a new one !

Offline Jason

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2019, 02:28:33 PM »
I had my 140 completely rebuilt 4 years ago. In the end I could have bought a long block from Michigan Motorz for about the same price. Michigan Motorz has great reviews.  My 140 had a few things done to it to improve power including a custom made cam. Didn't really increase performance in the end though as these engines are pretty much to the max of their capabilities already.

Like Joe said though. These are very tough engines. You could probably run it the rest of your life with that tick and wouldn't hurt a thing.
 
https://www.michiganmotorz.com/base-marine-engines-c-31_46.html


My 140 rebuild thread:
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=6073.msg86569#msg86569

Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline demian5

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2019, 02:33:15 PM »
"these engines are pretty much to the max of their capabilities already"

Yeah my understanding of the 70s boat motors is that they were the equivalent of the super sport/super duty/high HP car motors at the time.
1979 Glastron Carlson CVX 16 SS I/O Mercruiser 140 "Brick House"

Offline 75starflight

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2019, 03:43:02 PM »
I also have done a 140 rebuild. The most you can do is port the head for better flow. The camshaft is the best there is.

On you question about the pistons and rods - yes they are standard 350 from what my machinist told me. 4 inch bore and the rods are stock 350.

One other thing...do not go with a later head. If you can fix your old one that would be the way to go. For emission purposes in the 80s they reduced the intake and exhaust port size on the later 140/3.0 heads. Which reduced the power of the motor.
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline demian5

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2019, 04:08:20 PM »
"One other thing...do not go with a later head"

Yeah I figured as much. I hoping to get out of the bottom end for around $1000.

The motor in the boat has an early head as well. I don't think the OG head is salvageable anyways. The valve broke the casting and put a hole in it to the water jacket.
1979 Glastron Carlson CVX 16 SS I/O Mercruiser 140 "Brick House"

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2019, 04:25:12 PM »
"these engines are pretty much to the max of their capabilities already"

Yeah my understanding of the 70s boat motors is that they were the equivalent of the super sport/super duty/high HP car motors at the time.
that boat looks DANG nice behind that tuck !!!
Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
75 CV-16V8, Project
74 CV-16... its Purple !

Offline demian5

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2019, 04:30:37 PM »
"that boat looks DANG nice behind that tuck !!!"

Thanks - I just got done putting a built 355 and th350 in that truck, last thing I wanted to do was a new motor in the boat... It needs a floor and stringers...
1979 Glastron Carlson CVX 16 SS I/O Mercruiser 140 "Brick House"

Offline thewillets

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2019, 05:45:16 PM »
One thing to keep in mind is that you don't want the exhaust valve lash too tight.
It relies on the contact with the head to cool and with unleaded gasoline it doesn't "seal" as well against the head to dissipate the heat, assuming standard seats and valves.
I always lean very slightly toward the looser side myself.
Neil
1965 Futura 500 V164

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2019, 07:21:08 PM »
Rebuild or reman depends on your skill set, but if you did that truck, you have the skills.  The merc 140 is a tough beast.  Unless the PO put in solid lifters, the stock ones should be hydraulic and operate at zero lash.  Get some deflector clips and set the lash running.  You could do the contact then 1/2 turn, but running you get to see if another issue is present.  If it's a rod or piston slap, I'd just run it, oil pressure is good. 
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline 75starflight

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2019, 08:04:07 AM »
"One other thing...do not go with a later head"

Yeah I figured as much. I hoping to get out of the bottom end for around $1000.

The motor in the boat has an early head as well. I don't think the OG head is salvageable anyways. The valve broke the casting and put a hole in it to the water jacket.

If you want the older head I do have a good used one. I will make you a heck of a deal on it.
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline demian5

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2019, 10:48:26 AM »
I am stoked to be in the company of such supportive and knowledgeable people. I am gonna run it and get the old OG motor apart and to the machine shop. This has been a fresh water socal boat its whole life I believe so I'm not concerned about any issues with cracked block or corrosion.

Ill let you guys know how it goes...

Here it is behind by sons truck yesterday, I needed the driveway to work on the tow vehicle for the weekend trip. I have a bunch of pictures of putting it together as well.
1979 Glastron Carlson CVX 16 SS I/O Mercruiser 140 "Brick House"

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2019, 10:53:50 AM »
Hope all go's well !
Take some pictures of her floating ...

Offline demian5

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2019, 11:04:07 AM »
I will take pics. Lets hope the new transom seal and O-rings on the bottom bolts hold the water out!

Here is one from last year on the ill fated trip...
1979 Glastron Carlson CVX 16 SS I/O Mercruiser 140 "Brick House"

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2019, 11:28:48 AM »
It's a old boat .. What could go wrong …
LOL ..
Looks great !

Offline demian5

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2019, 11:04:12 AM »
Well it ticked the whole weekend but the temp stayed at 140 and the oil pressure at 50 at about 3K RPM and 30 at idle. However I learned that a carb return spring should be on there, coming off plane and running it would idle at 2K, but firing up it would idle at 900 RPM.

I'm gonna pull it again, pull the head and #3 rod and piston and see what going on with #3. However before pulling, I'm going to run compression numbers just so I have them. I even though of swapping a rocker on the #3 exhaust valve for good measure and see if that changes anything.

Any other suggestions?

Here are some pictures from our trip.
1979 Glastron Carlson CVX 16 SS I/O Mercruiser 140 "Brick House"

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Realistic price to rebuild a 3.0 140 vs buying reman
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2019, 11:10:55 AM »
If your going to pull the head, I'd start with the valve cover off and idling.  Make sure the ticking is valve related first.  You could have a bad lifter, flat lobe, bad rocker, broken spring, etc.   If you pull spark, and the noise goes away, I'd start thinking rod or piston issue.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude