Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: catchnedge on July 31, 2010, 11:50:08 PM
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Well, took the V-166 out today. In all, good day. Learned a lot about the boat, but we have a few things to work on.
This past week I had all 3 carbs rebuilt, new points, basic tune up, new gas lines, new impeller, etc.
The engine worked absolutely perfectly for the first hour. Then, would not advance above idle and would die when trying. Continued to start and idle just fine, but would not advance? adjusted choke/ensured it was off, adjusted slow speed idle (didn't see a high speed adjustment), was not overheating?... we are running a little rich at 4 oz/gallon, which I thought would be smart with the older engine, but it was not smoking and I checked the plugs and they are clean? I also have a brand new fuel line and tank I'm using, so I don't see how there would be any clogging of the fuel filter, but I didn't check it yet. Any other thoughts?
Also, steering was just fine at first, but then started binding. I greased the engine pivots and the end of the rod near engine attachment point, but it seems like it's coming from the steering column. None of the controls were holding it up. I think I'm going to have to take the column apart and grease it! Hopefully that's all it needs.
Well, quite a few pictures, here you go....
http://s519.photobucket.com/albums/u352/rev1717/Glastron%20V166/maiden%20voyage/
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Looking great Mark, hope you don't mind if I post a few of your pics here.....
(http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u352/rev1717/Glastron%20V166/maiden%20voyage/SANY6411.jpg)(http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u352/rev1717/Glastron%20V166/maiden%20voyage/SANY6417.jpg)(http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u352/rev1717/Glastron%20V166/maiden%20voyage/SANY6435.jpg)(http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u352/rev1717/Glastron%20V166/maiden%20voyage/SANY6425.jpg)(http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u352/rev1717/Glastron%20V166/maiden%20voyage/SANY6446.jpg)(http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u352/rev1717/Glastron%20V166/maiden%20voyage/SANY6438.jpg)
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Nice looking boat! I love the Glastron logo on the top!
I bought a boat, 16' Lund SSV a couple of months ago from a fellow that said hthe Nissan four stroke would not run after about an hour or so. I bought the boat anyway. He kept insisting that the fuel tank was loosing pressure! Gosh, I am not sure when, but, pressurized tanks have been long gone(I think). He had doubled the gasket on the cap of the tank. Teflon taped the fuel fittings. Eveything he could think of. I removed the double gaskets. Opened the tank vent on the gas cap. The engine had been not run in two years. Fourth pull of the rope it started and has been running nicely since with no signs of previous owners stalling issues.
I certainly don't know if this will help, but, fuel vapors can solidify as a varnish like substance in fuel supply components. My dad's old Evenrude tank did not have a vent. Every time we went out with his old boat:
(1)fuel line went on
(2)fuel priming bulb was squeezed
(3)gas cap was loosened to vent it.
(4)pull the rope
It might be an easy fix!?
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That boats to nice to put in the water ... LOL
Heard some bad things about fuel tank from Walmart, not sure of brand.
Not sure which brand you got ?
Ya ...ya did open the vent ... right ?
I've forgot to but didn't get more then 10 to 15 min. before problems.
My steering still works OK but is almost 40 years old and the steering wheel end of it is pretty sloppy.
If I were you/me I would replace the whole thing with a NFB (no feed back) for about $230, don't think you can lube anything in the steering system and if you could it would still have 40 year old grease in it .
Was it fast enough ?
Great pictures !
(http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u352/rev1717/Glastron%20V166/maiden%20voyage/SANY6420.jpg)
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Don't mind a bit Mark, thanks!
The speedo registered over 30, but not sure how accurate it is, we had some rough water and I was taking it easy, plus 4 people and gear, but I was very happy with how responsive it was, quiet running, on plane very quickly with little bow rise, and that hull took the waves great. I was planning to test the top speed with GPS later in the day with just me in the boat, once I was able to catch some smooth water to open it up, plus with the wife on bank with video camera to catch some good shots :), but we started having the "engine above idle" issues which put a damper on things. I think this engine is going to push it fast enough... we have a 17 pitch prop on it now which worked great with a loaded boat. I may toy around with a 21 pitch later on, but still haven't seen the 17's full potential yet.
The vent was wide open. It's a tempo 6 gallon tank with brand new OMC fittings and hose. The original OMC tanks have a plunger type vent that opens when the hose is attached, but I was using the new tank that has the vent on the cap... I opened it almost all the way it would go, so I don't think that's the issue, unless it was faulty? IDK
Gregg, will the NFB system work with the original steering wheel?
Mark
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You're welcome bud, glad to see that beautiful boat in the water! Can I throw in my two cents worth on the prop(s) and stuff? I think a 21P will be too tall, but you might try a 19P if you can find one to borrow. I tried a 21P on my V178 w/Johnson 115 and couldn't turn enough RPM. I know your boat and motor are a little smaller, but I'll bet the ratio is about the same.
I run tempo tanks too, and I'm not certain but unscrewing the vent valve all the way until it stops may close it off just like not unscrewing it at all. Might be worth checking it out. I only unscrew mine a couple turns (when I remember to) and it works just fine. I looked back yesterday after about 15 minutes of cruising and the tank was sucked in badly, forgot to open the vent after fueling, AGAIN! Doohhhh
I think your steering wheel has the square taper mount, which won't work with any of the new steering systems. (They all use a 3/4" round taper.) It's super tough finding one of those old style wheels, you shouldn't have any trouble selling it if you do go with the upgrade. I'm planning on putting in one of the NFB systems this winter, budget allowing of course. The newer wheels don't have the "charisma" the O.E. ones do, but the selection is almost endless, and it's a fair trade-off for better control IMHO.
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I'm with MarkS, Mark
When I crack the breather on my tank it takes about 2 turns for pressure to release and about 4 turns for all the way unscrewed.
I just unscrew it 2 to 2 and a half turns. Might be the problem, maybe ?
Our ( you, MarkS & I ) boats are pretty close in the HP to weight ratio and a 19P prop should be all you can pull.
Last weekend I tried a 23P prop and could only get 4900 rpm's at about 38 mph.
You'll have to replace everything on your steering but it's a safety thing ...
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Thanks guys, appreciate the advice. I'm going to do some tests tomorrow with both my tanks and see if I can nail it down. I'm in no rush to change out props (I have a spare, another 17P) but want to eventually test out a 19P. You're right, that's probably as high as I want to go! Not sure what the rpm range is on this motor, but I don't have a tach... so going to extreme pitches, either direction, is probably not a good idea.
I hate to think I may have to get rid of that steering wheel. For tonight, anyway, I'm in denial... but I understand.
Mark
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Great pics & beautiful boat Mark! Can't get over just how pristine that thing is.
I had a similar problem awhile back & it turned out to be the fitting on the fuel tank. Dang ethanol! Dunno how old your tanks are but that would be something to check.
Yeah the Glastron logo on the bimini wing(s) is very cool. Hope yer treating it and your interior with 303 ...?
I agree a 21# prop'd be way too tall.
Hope ya get the kinks worked out. Definitely sounds like a fuel isse.
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Your steering might have a friction knob on the steering bezel. Check to make sure it's backed off.
I wouldn't bother with NFB steering on your rig. You can adjust the torque tab if it pulls to the left or right. If you had power trim and the boat pulls in opposite directions trimmed up vs trimmed down, then you might make a case for NFB steering. I'd rather have your nice original wheel.
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I agree with all said. Boat looks awesome on the water and looks good with the top on, unlike some boats. Not to mention how much more comfortable it could be, being out of the sun, even for part of the day.
Very nice. I am sure you'll get the bugs worked out pretty easy. Sure sounds like fuel starvation as mentioned. Did you try squeezing the bulb while it was running at all?
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Oops! Sorry. Just reread the post & see that y'already replaced the tank fittings. My bad.
But still [in a lame effort to save face] considering 'quality control' these days it might pay to double check? Don't overlook the fitting on the motor either.
Suweet boat! Best of luck.
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UPDATE!.... I'm smiling, can you tell?
I have some video I'll post, once I figure out the best way to share it...
Adjustments made to the carb jets, and it has fixed the problem. Ran it last night for about 2-3 hours without issue.
Steering even seems to be loosening up "a little", jury still out. Aquamaniac, good ideas... but I checked and didn't see a friction knob on this one. I know what you mean about the pulling left and right, depending on where trim is set. I've had other set ups with power trim and I remember fine tuning that torque tab, but never could eliminate all of the pull for all speeds... just put it where we were crusing at most of the time. I guess the NFB steering would have helped that problem. This one I don't feel any pull at all, at any speed :) I love that steering wheel!!! I may have to replace at some point, but not without major resistance.
Engine position, 3 holes up from bottom, 17P prop. GPS... 34 with Sandy and I, 35 with just me. Plenty of pull for skiing... Sandy and I both tried out the vintage ski's, rope and harness. I have another prop I'm going to try for next time out, but think it's the same pitch. Well see if it makes any difference at all. I've got to see what a 19P would do. Best place to get one reasonable? I checked with one shop... aluminum, ~$170
Thanks Doug, ya, this weekend I treated all vinly/plastic with 303. I have also used "Babes seat saver" UV protector/conditioner in the past on other boats, I like that too. Not sure if you've tried it, but I highly recommend "Babes Boat Bright, spray wax and cleaner". We wipe down our fiberglass boats, inside and out, after each use. Doesn't take the place of a good periodic marine wax, but is a good cleaner to get the water spots off, UV protection and light wax for in between.
Ross, thanks, man that top is a must in the middle of the day here, July and August!... you just roast otherwise. It makes a big difference, but definitely cuts down on the room... pretty small space in there.
We took a few more pics last night...
http://s519.photobucket.com/albums/u352/rev1717/Glastron%20V166/08022010%20at%20Canyon%20Lake/
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That's a sweetheart of a boat. Looks great w/top and love the Glastron logo on it.
Plenty of pull for skiing...
You a own a MasterCraft and your skiing behind that...LOL
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That's great news Mark! Scratch one problem off the list. re Steering: Do you not have a grease fitting on the cable at the motor end? Thought most did. I crank the motor to port & juice her up. Then crank it all the way stb, wipe off the excess. Then see if it'll take any more grease. After that I crank it to port again. Leaves a nice uniform coating.
Never dug into the rack though I probly should, mine's a lil sloppy too. Believe Dave Pankonin has. Think he cobbled up some shims/bushings to tighten his up a bit. Perhaps he'll chime in. I agree that NFB is probably unnecessary for your application.
re Tachometer: A MUST have 'specially if yer gonna start monkeying around with props. Don't recall if the boat has a speedo but if so there's your tach hole. Since ya already got mph covered with your GPS? Many members have had good luck buying props off Ebay. Don't recall anybody gettin' burned.
Speaking of burned I wouldn't trade my bimini for anything this time of year! Ya I imagine it could get a lil cramped under one of those origional factory tops but consider the alternative. Mebbe someday you'll let me make ya a nice one you can move around under? Heh heh.
Great pics.
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Could he just replace the cable and keep helm/steering wheel ?
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Could he just replace the cable and keep helm/steering wheel ?
Ya I s'pose Gregg. But you'd have to find NOS. Or 'gently used' I reckon? Bleve that stuff is NLA ...
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Could he just replace the cable and keep helm/steering wheel ?
Hannay's lists several teleflex cables, rotary and rack, without having to buy a whole new system.
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Thanks all! Ya... hahaha, CVX Fever, we had to try out those vintage ski's! The feel of those old rubber bindings cutting into the front of my ankles brought back some memories of my childhood! Actually my wife, who is still the slalom skier in our family, does not enjoy crossing the wake behind our MasterCraft X1... it's too big, even at speed... strictly recreational skier. There is hardly any wake behind the V-166 :)
All great info, thanks again. No grease fittings on the cable... really wish there were! In the next few days I'm going to dig into the system and see what I can find out. Maybe I can just replace the cable, that would be great if it's possible and thats the cause, but the binding might be in the column?... I'll see what will come apart, what won't, what I might be able to lube, etc. I'll take the cable off the engine, make sure it's not the engine pivot, etc. The good news is, it's still usable right now the way it is... might even improve with more use.
A tach is on my wish list... that engine was hummin' with the 17P at top speed, didn't keep it there long. I don't know what it's turning. I actually think the 19P would be better suited for it.
Great looking bimini on your V152 Doug!... and good color match to the boat and seats from what I can tell on that pic. That gold color material difficult to get? Of course, I don't mind ducking into the V-166 cabin when the top's up :) Seriously though, I'll let you know if we need something made for other applications!
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Mark, here's a breakdown of the rack that's in my boat, it may help to disassemble and re-lube if yours is the same
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/RideGuideillus.jpg)
If you do end up needing a cable, Joe P. at Ferguson-Poole Marine still has some I believe. He's listed in the vendor resource section. I could be wrong and please let me know if I am, but I don't think the Teleflex replacement cables will work on the Ride Guide racks.
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A tach is on my wish list... that engine was hummin' with the 17P at top speed, didn't keep it there long. I don't know what it's turning. I actually think the 19P would be better suited for it.
I have a laser RPM light for this purpose. It's almost like a timing light that you would use for your ignition. All you have to do is put a small piece of reflective tape (included in the kit) on the outer edge of your flywheel (with the engine cover off). Then you point the laser at the reflective tape as the motor is running, and it will read out the rpm. If you have two people in the boat, one can drive, and the other can point the laser at the reflective tape while you zip across the lake. It's really easy! I used mine to determine if my dash tach was reading right. Found out it was about 10% off through the entire rpm band.
You can get these digital photo sensor tachometer at Harbor freight... http://www.harborfreight.com/digital-photo-sensor-tachometer-66632.html
Mine is a little cheaper than this one, but they all work about the same. No need to spend a ton of money and mess up your dash if you don't want to! Let me know if you have any questions!
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Actually my wife, who is still the slalom skier in our family, does not enjoy crossing the wake behind our MasterCraft X1... it's too big, even at speed... strictly recreational skier. There is hardly any wake behind the V-166
As an "old school" slalom skier myself I can understand that. I've thought about hooking a rope to the back of Hyperacme's boat. Just waiting for him to get a ski bar on it! ;D Those tri-hulls throw a nice flat wake, perfect for us slalom water skiers!
FWIW I suspect your steering cable is starting to bind. Common, although surprising considering how little use your boat has had. I had the same issue on the '83 CVX16 I used to own. With that boat the cable and helm/rack were one piece which required I replace everything. I would try disconnecting the cable at the motor. Then you can make sure the OB moves back and forth nice and free and check to see if the steeering wheel is still hard to turn.
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Mark
With my 17P prop, I could get over 6000 rpm's !
Take it easy ...
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I would try disconnecting the cable at the motor. Then you can make sure the OB moves back and forth nice and free and check to see if the steeering wheel is still hard to turn.
Good idea cvx! First law of troubleshooting: Isolate the problem. Before you start throwing parts at it hopin' somethin'll stick ...
My bimini is 'Brass' Sunbrella Mark. Up close it has a somewhat metallic look. Light gold with a few silvery threads running through it. I'll try to remember to brink a chunk of it home & post a scan. Purty cool color actually. Might go really good with a gold metalflake boat?
Ya I'll bet yer winding that motor up purty tight with a 17 alum prop. Repeat after me: I will buy a tachometer, I will buy a tachometer, ... Heh heh heh. Hey if'n you don't want to drill a hole getcha one of those lil digital 'tiny tachs' sold for SeaDoos, etc. Stick it on with some velcro. Bleve they're reasonably cheap?
Good luck with the steering "issue". SeeYa!
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Wow, ok Gregg, 6000rpms is not good, I think max for this engine is 5500. This was the set up from the dealer? Didn't think they would do that.
I passed Harborfreight today but didn't stop... I will get a tach, I will get a tach... hehehe. Ya, I don't want to do something stupid and kill that engine. I think I'm going to get one of the digital toys instead of installing a tach... original dash speedo looks too cool. Thanks for the tip Brian. I'm happy with it... not breaking any speed records, but then again, I don't need to with this rig. It's got a story, it's got a history, I just don't want Gregg to leave me in his wake when I bring this thing up to an annual meet one of these days! ;D
Doug, that color sounds really neat... would like to see it if you get a chance.
Sandy and I were thinking of naming the boat "Gunkel" after the original owners... Ella and Earl Gunkel. Not that it will be painted on the boat or anything. Anyone want to throw their 2cents in? I'm up for any better ideas.
I spent this evening touching up the paint on the trailer. It had a decent amount of surface rust on it, even with sitting in the garage all these years. I should get the hub caps back from being re-chromed by Friday.
Steering still in front of me.
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Mark, thanks for posting the steering diagrams and info... very informative!!! Should be the same or very similar.
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Design Technology?s TINY-TACH
http://www.tinytach.com/tinytach/index.php
I emailed them about a Tiny Tach for my Merc and they sent me a very informative reply with every thing I needed to know, and a contact if I had more questions.
My helm is not like MarkS's ...
See picture below ...
My steering wheel was in rough shape, so I got one from a local boat dealer.
It fit right on the old helm.
My motors rpm range is 5000 to 6000 rpms so I was over reving by about 100 rpm's with the 17P prop, the 19P has rpm's at about 5400 rpm's.
My motor is 60 HP rated at the prop, which started about 1985, your is 60 HP rated at powerhead. With out looking your boat has to be at least 100 lbs more then mine so I should be faster then yours.
IMHO & Info ...
I would and did cut a hole in my dash for a tach ...
Not saying you should ... Just that I did ...
On the G3 site theres a guy that took a Yamaha tilt & trim and put it on an older Johnson/Evenrude ...
http://forums.fiberglassics.com/g3/showmessage.asp?fm=Forum&messageID=23307
http://forums.fiberglassics.com/g3/showmessage.asp?fm=Forum&messageID=23308
http://forums.fiberglassics.com/g3/showmessage.asp?fm=Forum&messageID=23309
http://forums.fiberglassics.com/g3/showmessage.asp?fm=Forum&messageID=23310
http://forums.fiberglassics.com/g3/showmessage.asp?fm=Forum&messageID=23311
http://forums.fiberglassics.com/g3/showmessage.asp?fm=Forum&messageID=23312
http://forums.fiberglassics.com/g3/showmessage.asp?fm=Forum&messageID=23313
http://forums.fiberglassics.com/g3/showmessage.asp?fm=Forum&messageID=23314
Another guy on same site took a Yamaha 90 HP motor and painted it to look like a mid 70's Johnson Stinger !
Again not saying you should ... just info ...
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/st_7712.jpg)
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re Boat name. Gunkel's okay I s'pose but "Gunkella" would be more appropriate. Imo ...
Here's an option: "Gunkearlella". Cover all the bases that way ...
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Gregg wrote:
My helm is not like MarkS's ...
See picture below ...
I understand that the selling dealer normally rigged the motor and controls, did they also install the steering? I guess they used whatever they had in stock in the parts department then. The dealer mine originally came from was right here in Atlanta, but has been out of business for quite some time. They were both Merc and OMC dealers, which I guess is why my OMC powered Glastron has a RideGuide steering system.?! I get so confused............. ::)
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MarkS ...
The dealer my boat came from is still in busness but dosn't sell Glastrons any more.
You can still get rotary or rack helms that look pretty close to ours, but not sure if old parts interchange with new parts.
Was told by a dealer that Merc's & Johnson/Evinrude's had tilt tube steering on there motors but Chysler's did not so that is why they used the transom mounted steering on some boats. Good question about who installed steering, Glastron or dealer ?
Hotwire might know, or Joe Poole ...
http://www.ericksonmarine.com/
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/V-156/DSCF1597.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/V-156/DSCF1593.jpg)
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Here's what I found under my origional Glastron sticker: What the ...?! I had always assumed it was a Teleflex rack. Looks an awful lot like one? I'm confused too.
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Old Glastron sticker:
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New sticker: Please pardon my nasty unfinished interior. Oops! Looks like I forgot to empty the 'ashtray' again ...
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Where you get the sticker?
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Haven't read the thread in a while but he use to have some.
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2256
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That's a sweetheart of a boat. Looks great w/top and love the Glastron logo on it.
Plenty of pull for skiing...
You a own a MasterCraft and your skiing behind that...LOL
That IS funny! True Glastron love.
Grease fitting....if you dont have one, they sell them that screw on to the end of the tilt tube but you have to pull the steering cable to install it. I out one on my old 85 Merc but when I switched to the newer 100 HP I have now, it had one so I actually have that nut laying around. Had I not recently bought another boat that I'll be adding an older motor to, I'd just give it to you if we thought it fit.