Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rosscoe on August 24, 2012, 09:42:05 AM
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I know some (Doran, Mark S?) of you installed fuel seperators and it looks like you have to use a special type, with metal bowl for "inboard" use. I am wondering what kind you used and if its coastguard approved to use rubber line in the engine compartment. I pulled my 41 year old fuel pump the other day and its the kind with a built in filter and it was full of setiment. Likely rust from the tank. I think I really need to install an inline filter. I'll have to cut the copper line and figure out a way to mount it but I'll also need to use rubber hose and clamps since I have no way to flair the line to hard plumb it.
Any thoughts? Rich, I know you re-did all yours with rubber. Did you go to the carb with rubber as well?
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Ross - I used marine approve rubber fuel line, replacing the copper line to the engine. I put in a basic inline glass auto filter.
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I've got this same issue and same job in front of me so excellent timing on the post!
Thanks much and good tips Doran!
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Here are some pics of the filter / separator I installed in my boat. The rear seat is removed for the install & pictures.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l314/emichael0123/IMG_1246.jpg)
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l314/emichael0123/IMG_1251.jpg)
I cut the aluminum plate and mounted it to the very thin board in order to build some structure. I simply cut the stock copper fuel line and added the appropriate fittings. Cutting & flaring was a lot easier than trying to fit on barbed connectors and going to a rubber line.
HTH,
-Eric
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Here's what I'm using. Costs a whopping $10-12 from AutoZone. I have 2 of them plus a bunch of replacement filters so I always have extras. When I begin to lose power, I'll stop and swap them, then clean the dirty one, replace filter and I'm good for the next swap.
Its a great system, but, after running like this for 2 years now, I'm tired of it. Its no replacement for a clean tank that's for sure.
http://www.amazon.com/Spectre-Performance-2369-Universal-Filter/dp/B0006303QC (http://www.amazon.com/Spectre-Performance-2369-Universal-Filter/dp/B0006303QC)
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Eric were you able to use a regular flaring tool for home pumbing? I have a couple of those but without looking, I am not sure it goes that small. It might.
Doran I was looking at those and all of them that I saw said "out board only" so apparently there is some danger if having it confined? Leaking? Even the large ones like Eric posted have a different style for inboard and outboard. Outboard you can use one with a clear glass bowl but inboard are metal. I'm really not sure of the concern.
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Eric were you able to use a regular flaring tool for home pumbing? I have a couple of those but without looking, I am not sure it goes that small. It might.
As far as I know, it was a regular flaring tool. The one which has sat in the old workbench for at least 30 years. Nothing special about it. It was the same one I used when re-doing some copper propane lines on my truck camper. I figured if it sealed good enough for propane that it would be good enough for gasoline....plus no rubber for the ethanol to rot.
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Eric were you able to use a regular flaring tool for home pumbing? I have a couple of those but without looking, I am not sure it goes that small. It might.
As far as I know, it was a regular flaring tool. The one which has sat in the old workbench for at least 30 years. Nothing special about it. It was the same one I used when re-doing some copper propane lines on my truck camper. I figured if it sealed good enough for propane that it would be good enough for gasoline....plus no rubber for the ethanol to rot.
I'd prefer to stay with the copper, at least going to the filter, then I may go rubber from there to the fuel pump. I like flare fittings better then hose barbs.
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Ross - yeah, I didn't use one like Eric's. Same concern...not rated for I/O's.
I replaced my copper lines because they were old, corroded and hadn't been hooked up to an engine in years.
Mine's a band aid. If I had an outboard, I'd have done what Eric has in a sec.
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This is what I am looking for and they have both for inboard and out.
http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/Racor_Gasoline_Spin_On_Fuel_Filters.html (http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/Racor_Gasoline_Spin_On_Fuel_Filters.html)
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That's the one. All the guys on Scream and Fly swear by them.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/DSC01096Medium.jpg)
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You shouldn't need any special tool for the copper flaring. Most older refrigerators use to connect their ice maker and water dispensers with something like 1/4" copper. I know my parents have an old swamp cooler on their house in El Paso, there's a small copper line to that as well - maybe as big as 3/8. I remember being a kid and helping out my dad on the roof.
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You shouldn't need any special tool for the copper flaring. Most older refrigerators use to connect their ice maker and water dispensers with something like 1/4" copper. I know my parents have an old swamp cooler on their house in El Paso, there's a small copper line to that as well - maybe as big as 3/8. I remember being a kid and helping out my dad on the roof.
Ice makers use compression fittings and I dont know if I am cool with those.
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I have the same fuel Doran has right after my tank, then it goes to a fuel water separator like what Eric posted. The separator like what Eric used came with my outdrive setup I think it was stock on the Merc 888s... you can see it in this picture mounted on the "log"
(http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/31373/2513326690084817080S500x500Q85.jpg)
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I have the same fuel/water separator in my boat it was stock with the motor.
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Yep, me too. You can see where I put the inline glass viewable one in front of the Mercury filter. Once I knew my tank was bad, and I'm told they'll never stop rusting, I put mine in as added insurance.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7ogjfhsVg4M/Tf66OFpcSmI/AAAAAAAAHEk/_fV5XPYz0TE/s800/P6180230.JPG)
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Nice, this is actually a pretty timely topic for me too. Earlier this week I accidentally kinked the fuel line while taking off the carb (the one running from the pump to the carb), so I think I will be replacing the fuel line this weekend.
A couple questions I had:
1.) Do I need to loctite both ends of the new fuel line when I install it?
2.) How do you remove the fuel/water separator? Is it a push a twist type, or is there a separate screw? I'm not sure if I'll need to take the back seat out again in order to get access. I think mine was also stock with the 1980 Merc 228.
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Doran is yours a steel tank? I am putting that in floor tank in the V195 but it is aluminum.
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It looks Aluminum to me... been a while since I've looked at it though.
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Scott
Hope you can find a fuel line think they are hard to come by.
I would not loctite the fuel ends as they are flared.
The fuel water separator should be a screw on type like a oil filter for a car.
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The Racor filter has a clear bowl on the bottom with a drain so you can drain any water out. IMHO the spin-on filters ya might as well leave off. If you can't see if you have water, and drain it it's worthless.
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The Racor filter has a clear bowl on the bottom with a drain so you can drain any water out. IMHO the spin-on filters ya might as well leave off. If you can't see if you have water, and drain it it's worthless.
It would be nice to be able to see the water and sentiment but they only recommend the clear glass bowl types for outboards. Now, what difference would that make if you mounted it outside the bilge area? Why not under the bow close to the tank? Might be a bit messy changing out the filter however.
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Ya Racors are purty much the cat's azz. All the rage down here. Makes sense I spose. Nice to be able to see into the crud. Wonder how it 'knows' the difference 'tween water'n fuel ...?
I 'member eons ago when me'n my lil bro bought the Formula. It'd been sittin awhile so we changed the oil, gear lube, drained the old fuel, rebuilt the carb etc etc. Somehow neglected to replace the spin on fuel/water seperator filter. First time out it was runnin great'n we were beatin the snot outa it. 'Til the old fuel seperator filter developed a leak. Totally rotten from the inside out. Peein everywhere. We tied it off best we could with a pair of socks & limped back to shore.
Not that anybody gives a sh*t. But I digress ...
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Well Doug, I for one enjoy (most of) your stories. :D
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Sorry for the late response Ross, I was tied up all afternoon. (Not in a good way.) I just put one of the Racor units on the GT-150, the one on the Starflite serves me well.
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/GT%20150/GT150Aug19006.jpg)
For inboard applications, USCG requires the metal bowl if mounted in the engine compartment so it doesn't melt in the case of a fire and make the bad situation worse. Outside, you can run whichever style you want. (I like being able to see what's in the bowl.) The filter element part is big enough that they rarely plug up, I change mine once a year as a precaution. We're a Racor distributor at work, I can check on getting you one like you picked out at my cost on Monday if you'd like.....?
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So...not to get completely off track...but...just pulled my fuel sender to take a peek at the tank again:
No amount of filtering is going to solve my issues. Tank is aluminium...(well its not magnetic anyway), so where's all the rust coming from?
Anyway...I'll be ordering a new tank. Sick of fighting it.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rGPS23cYO-s/UDhABO4-5kI/AAAAAAAAI4s/E644WQiAoho/s800/2012-08-24_21-57-19_478.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-j7qAWO24s1U/UDg_9tUavZI/AAAAAAAAI40/OJm4yMs4l9A/s800/2012-08-24_21-57-29_280.jpg)
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Sorry for the late response Ross, I was tied up all afternoon. (Not in a good way.) I just put one of the Racor units on the GT-150, the one on the Starflite serves me well.
For inboard applications, USCG requires the metal bowl if mounted in the engine compartment so it doesn't melt in the case of a fire and make the bad situation worse. Outside, you can run whichever style you want. (I like being able to see what's in the bowl.) The filter element part is big enough that they rarely plug up, I change mine once a year as a precaution. We're a Racor distributor at work, I can check on getting you one like you picked out at my cost on Monday if you'd like.....?
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Yes Mark, please do. Maybe price both the metal bowl and glass as well as replacement filters. The glass would be good for obvious reasons. I'd just have to mount it up front by the tank.
Doran, I am sure my tank is the same. I dont know if I can even get mine out from under the bow but for now, I'll use filters.
I am looking at either the B32020mam or B32021MAM. One says it for Mercruiser and the other for OMC. I dont know what the difference is between them. Are these good for setiment as well as water? Thats really what I am after. I think I'll install a small cheaper one like Doran installed, ahead of it to catch the bulk of the junk. Cheaper to replace those filters. These are 59.95 at Discount Marine with the replacement filters running 19.95
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Doran, your boat was sitting for a long time right? Maybe that debris is not rust but crusted up old gas. If it was sitting for nearly 10 years it wouldn't surprise me.
Not sure how you could clean it out though.
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Doran, your boat was sitting for a long time right? Maybe that debris is not rust but crusted up old gas. If it was sitting for nearly 10 years it wouldn't surprise me.
Not sure how you could clean it out though.
Sat for at least 10. When the junk is wet, its rust colored, but dries to a white powder.
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Doran, since it is aluminumn i would suggest calling around to some of your local radiator shops and see what it would cost to have them boil it out. From what I under stand that is the only way to truly clean those tanks. it would probably be cheaper than buying a new tank
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I'm done with this tank...plastic tank is what'll be going in. Unless the size or something becomes cost prohibitive.
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Kreem. Any motorcycle shio.
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I'm having some trouble locating 1 1/4 heater hose to plumb my new thermostat housing. I found it at one place but I dont want to buy 50-100 feet!
I checked one of my local auto parts stores today and 1" is as large as they have. Anyone bought any recently?
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Okay Ross, here's the rundown;
The numbers you listed (B32020MAM 021MAM) are to convert the factory filter head over to a ff/ws. (The difference is Merc uses 11/16"-16 threads and OMC uses 1"-20 threads). If you don't have the factory filter head, you'll need the 320R-RAC-02 assembly (with filter head). The unit we stock has the metal bowl (plastic bowl assy. would be 320R-RAC-01), but the B32013 is in stock, which would give you an extra spin-on filter and the see-thru bowl. You can possibly buy them cheaper online, but I'll PM you with the prices just in case. HTH
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Thats confusing since it appeared the numbers I gave you had the head too but thats the problem with one picture for 8-10 part numbers. I'll look into this some more.
Thanks Mark
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120-RAC-02 for the inboard (no plastic) The one that Mark and I have is a 120-RAC-o1
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Thats confusing since it appeared the numbers I gave you had the head too but thats the problem with one picture for 8-10 part numbers.
Yes sir, I'm looking at the Racor catalog, which I'd be glad to fax or email to you.
He could run the same one we are Jerry, but ours are rated at 30 GPH (gallons per hour) and the 320 series is rated at 60 GPH - it's what Racor recommends for I'O's. (Not that any of us will ever burn that much gas, I think it has to do more with the capacity of the filter element than anything. That, and marketing the "up-sell" of course.)
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I believe you, as long as I stay away from the glass bowl, I should be fine (legally) :D
Thanks for the help Mark and Jerry.
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While installing my new fuel pump and preparing the fuel lines for the installation of a water seperator, I noticed a ground wire wrapped and soldered to the copper line and run to the engine block. I assume this is for ESD (electro static discharge) to eliminate a static/spark issue? It is my intention to replace some of the copper with rubber fuel hose so this ground will have to be eliminated or connected to a different spot, but that leaves the rubber line from the seperator to the fuel pump potentially ungrounded. Does anyone know if Marine rubber fuel line is conductive? If so, I may only need to run a ground wire to the remaining copper line. It may sound silly but I cant think of another reason for that ground, other then for static.
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If you're replacing the copper line with rubber you don't need a ground. But what should be grounded is the gas tank and the fuel fill.
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Is there a good reason to replace the copper fuel line thats still in good shape with rubber ?
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Since I'll be leaving the majority of the copper in place, then I better run a wire. I've cut into it near the transom so it wont be difficult to ground on the block like it is now.
Thanks Rich
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Speaking of fuel filters, I finally pulled my carb and found this in the fuel line filter that is part of the carb itself!
(http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h439/bayflite73/2B518DAB-A83B-431D-A85D-FD6730276071-563-0000003358309F19.jpg)
That can't be good.
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Maybe you dont need to have the carb gone throught after all Josh. I would give it a try before you get it rebuilt after finding that.
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I would also check if your fuel pump has an internal filter, if it does it'll be probably be worse than the one on the carburetor.
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Wonder if my carb has that filter? Where would it be?
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I think you have a 2 barrel carb, not sure if it is the same as a q jet but they are located right where the fuel line comes into the carb. Right behind the big nut. At least that is where mine is.
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I'm assuming it was replaced when I had the engine & carb rebuilt, but I didn't realize there was one there as well...I'll pull that this week and check it.
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Can't tell what that is. Is it rust? if so, you got tank problems. Otherwise maybe something just got in the tank somehow. I thought Brian checked your fuel pump fuel filter on WBL. Was that one clogged up then?
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Can't tell what that is. Is it rust? if so, you got tank problems. Otherwise maybe something just got in the tank somehow. I thought Brian checked your fuel pump fuel filter on WBL. Was that one clogged up then?
The carb is a 2 barrel and yes, that filter is right where the fuel line enters the carb behind the really big nut.
Jason, it doesn't seem to be rust. It looks more like really fine sand. The main fuel filter before the fuel pump but not definately not that bad.
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With all due respect to everyone giving input here Josh, I would at least pull the top off the carb and check the float bowl to see if any of the finer "crud" made it inside. (Hopefully not, but now would be the time to find out?) Those filters do a decent job catching the "bigger chunks", but the "silt" can wreak havoc on the fuel system as well......Just my two cents.
Time for an (inside the) tank inspection!?
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I agree, I would still have it gone through. When my gas tank was rusty, I was getting rust past 3 filters and clogging up the carb. Just get it done and know for sure you will have a problem free boating season next year.
I still worry about your tank though...........
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a problem free boating season next year.
What's that like? Do any of us have those? ;)
I still worry about your tank though...........
I am worried about it as well. Life's craziness is just in the way at the moment. It was all I could do to just winterize the dang engine yesterday!
I'll definitely have to pull the tank next spring (after thaw but before the season gets going (Not your season Jason! That starts January 15th!)) and figure out the fuel sender/gauge issue as well. Probably just give the whole fuel system a good once over.