Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dorelse on September 03, 2014, 12:39:52 AM
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At least my boating season was essentially over...though I was hoping to come up for the Minnetonka run, then store the boat in Mankato. (Should easily fit with the new shorter trailer.)
Anyway...the bad:
Gas tank has sprung a leak...bilge is (was) full of fuel and draining out the stern...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-90lInO9Tors/VAanLehz0xI/AAAAAAAAdLk/zwbKo2NEbYE/s800/WP_20140902_007.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-R2JFSaI_EuM/VAanLa8_bHI/AAAAAAAAdLE/th1Hrrztzbk/s800/WP_20140902_008.jpg)
Pulling the tank back out. The one thing about being in the DR (Disaster Recovery IT field) is I usually try to have a backup plan...so I made the center section very easy to remove.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--IbtZs9K7oI/VAanM3x6LOI/AAAAAAAAdLg/DsDFw5efbQo/s800/WP_20140902_010.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-bPcpf-tI7Yg/VAanNf9MaGI/AAAAAAAAdLs/VFmy3zP1kO8/s800/WP_20140902_011.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s8FteBP7Qkw/VAanN3VGDBI/AAAAAAAAdLw/B0aLZdY1GJ4/s800/WP_20140902_012.jpg)
The replacement:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-cmTaGRQQGlk/VAanMf4pu-I/AAAAAAAAdLU/sVmT0sM9GG4/s800/WP_20140902_009.jpg)
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SO...time to find a poly tank or figure out a way to get the replacement tank from Joe plugged into Goldie. Ski locker, with the tank under the bench seat perhaps. I've got time to figure it out.
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`not sure if this would be the right size?
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/boa/4649582774.html (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/boa/4649582774.html)
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one more
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/boa/4649585539.html (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/boa/4649585539.html)
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I got tired of messing with my old tank/s and bought one of these from RCI. It's the 17 gal version. I figured that would be be large enough since the factory one was 18 gal. I'm not sure if they have one "off the shelf" that would work for you because your shape is a little more fixed than mine up under the bow.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u619/kert0307/IMG_20140828_182639778_HDR1_zps1ad8343f.jpg)
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"I was hoping to come up for the Minnetonka run"
use outboard tanks for the run, make a pattern/get measurements and store it, have one made/modified to fit.
i can weld alum, just have to find someone with a brake.
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"I was hoping to come up for the Minnetonka run"
use outboard tanks for the run, make a pattern/get measurements and store it, have one made/modified to fit.
i can weld alum, just have to find someone with a brake.
On that note, no reason I couldn't plug in the aluminum one you gave me either Joe.
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`not sure if this would be the right size?
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/boa/4649582774.html (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/csw/boa/4649582774.html)
Thanks for looking Shawn!
If I'm going to fit a tank back under the floor its probably going to have to be a custom made one...its only 4-5" tall at the very front, and gradually tapers larger (taller) at the stern.
Or...find a poly one (or two) that I can hide somewhere in the boat. I would have room under the front seats or possibly could hide something behind the bench seat if I reconfigured it a bit.
The concern there is that the CVZ's are already (imo) a bit unbalanced already, stern heavy. Put a couple of people on the bench, full tank of gas, and I might become the 'wheelie beast jr'. lol
Honestly, it would make a nice ski locker if I do an above floor one.
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"I was hoping to come up for the Minnetonka run"
use outboard tanks for the run, make a pattern/get measurements and store it, have one made/modified to fit.
i can weld alum, just have to find someone with a brake.
On that note, no reason I couldn't plug in the aluminum one you gave me either Joe.
done deal, see you on the 21st
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Oh, and while I was ready to chuck the boat off a waterfall last night, I'm back off the edge...some sleep will help with that.
That and seeing my Dad's handiwork when I opened up the floor again last night...which is a permanent reminder of why I need to keep this boat...despite my current frustrations with it.
This leak is my own fault btw...I got cheap, listened to a buddy when I knew better, and that's never a good combination.
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"I was hoping to come up for the Minnetonka run"
use outboard tanks for the run, make a pattern/get measurements and store it, have one made/modified to fit.
i can weld alum, just have to find someone with a brake.
On that note, no reason I couldn't plug in the aluminum one you gave me either Joe.
done deal, see you on the 21st
As long as I don't have a volleyball tournament to go to, or some family commitment, I should be there. Need to help Mom with fall cleanup, and this seems like a good time to do it.
Kurt - I'll check RCI, its blocked at work as a 'Weapons/Ammo" site? (Gotta love big brother...they probably expect me to work too.)
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Doran going with the dual tanks under the bow seat would be a good idea and help with the weight distribution issues these boats have.
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Doran going with the dual tanks under the bow seat would be a good idea and help with the weight distribution issues these boats have.
Its an idea...not sure how good...it would present a whole host of new issues...the first of which is likely cramping my leg room. Then there's the need for 2 fillers, one on each side, meaning I'm re-positioning the boat 2x at every gas station...then adding in the Ford tank switcher valve like their trucks always had..2 fuel gauges, etc, etc.
It would be best to fix/replace the original...though, I could go with something like this under the bench too.
(http://dev.greatlakesskipper.com/images_temp/images/products/7/5957-1-lg.jpg)
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(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/03/5c7fd519ab758f3c452ae47c01fd7cc0.jpg)
This is more along the lines I was thinking for a dual tank system. One fill point. Been using this type of system for years on tractors here at work.
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(http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/03/5c7fd519ab758f3c452ae47c01fd7cc0.jpg)
This is more along the lines I was thinking for a dual tank system. One fill point. Been using this type of system for years on tractors here at work.
Got a link to the picture? I can't see it...work filters are blocking it.
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i will send it to your phone.
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Only problem with a tank setup like that is if your cross flow hose has a leak it will drain both tanks. When I put two tanks under the bow of my boat I had two fills on the same side. I had a fuel tank selector (from a Ford truck like you mentioned) I used one fuel gauge that was connected to a relay so it read whichever tank the selector was pulling from. I ended up pretty much only using one of the tanks, so I'm pulling out both tanks an going to that single aluminum one now.
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good point on the cross flow hose Kert.
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hmm...think this might be an issue? I'll be visiting Tank Renu in Knoxville...which is what I should have done in the first place...and you can see some of the deep pitting just in that little section.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Kci2EufXmjs/VAfBex0NOXI/AAAAAAAAdMk/GcGuxT3stJ0/s800/5155ab60-c9fb-44cf-8827-f54461b77c6c.jpg)
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See that quite often at my shop, only a little worse:
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See that quite often at my shop, only a little worse:
Is it repairable or do I chuck this one?
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If it's just the one hole you might get away with patching it with MarineTex but I see the makings of more holes forming. Once the corrosion starts it's hard to keep it at bay. I've marked other potentials on your pic below. I'd be looking for another tank to avoid a disaster.
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I bet of you shine a bright light inside the tank while in a dark room you'll find more pin-holes all over that area.
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If it's just the one hole you might get away with patching it with MarineTex but I see the makings of more holes forming just above that one closer to the corner of the tank. Once the corrosion starts it's hard to keep it at bay. I've marked other potentials on your pic:
There are many more ... no holes, but some small but serious pits. I think I'll have to run it down and see if they (Tank Renu) can help.
It may be too far gone.
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That pitted spot in the 4 o'clock position is all over the tank.
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For the picture on their website, I think they can save it.
http://www.gastankrenu.com (http://www.gastankrenu.com)
Terry
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If they can save it I'd say go for it. But their pictures on the web site are for steel tanks. I didn't see anything referring to aluminum tanks.
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If they can save it I'd say go for it. But their pictures on the web site are for steel tanks. I didn't see anything referring to aluminum tanks.
I would think...that if its corroding, the only fix for that is removing the bad pieces to get ahead of it? I'll email them some pictures...Knoxville, IA isn't hours away, but it isn't close to me either.
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i kno they have a great rep, and that process is widely accepted...
but it seems to me if there are holes rotted through it, and you are considering keeping the boat it would be worth replacing it with something that wont "rear its ugly head" later.
have you considered a custom glass tank like red made ?
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i kno they have a great rep, and that process is widely accepted...
but it seems to me if there are holes rotted through it, and you are considering keeping the boat it would be worth replacing it with something that wont "rear its ugly head" later.
have you considered a custom glass tank like red made ?
I think that's well beyond my abilities, and paying for that wouldn't be cost $ (not with a kid going to college next year. Honestly, I think I'd be better served buying a parts CVZ-18 (the one in MI) and using that tank.
Or...possibly finding a Moeller one that will fit in the floor. Going to take my time on this one and find a good permanent solution.
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If you made a plywood mold out of the tank area you have, you might be able to have one of the companies that does rotomolding make a tank out of it for you. I know there are a few companies in Iowa that do rotomolding.
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Been away doing outdoor projects, have to say you folks have been busy. The current tank has the exact type of pinholes that my Z tank had. I blasted the outside areas that I had possible issues, soda blasting would be better, but I was out, and sand was available. I only had one area in the back corner that must have been in water a long time. I had to cut out and patch that(about 4" square). The other spots had corrosion, but no actual holes, so I epoxy’d the corroded areas with an epoxy made for patching tanks. When I was happy with the areas, I sealed the openings, pressurized it to 10psi, then left it over night. No leaks in morning, so I then coated the inside with Red Koat (Oreilleys has it) making sure to cover the issue areas best. Then coated the outside in bed liner and reinstalled. Unfortunately I did not have the forethought to make the area accessible later, that’s really a great idea Doran. If it fails, it would likely be abandoned in place. Now the tank has rubber supports on the bottom, and a path exits bow to stern to allow moisture out. Added some pour foam, and my tank is locked in place. If I had time, I might weld up two tanks up front under the seats, and use 5/16" line for crossover. Filling would take place with the seats up, no filler on the side of the boat. Not sure I could get 25+ gallons, I would have to check. Hope this helps, Michael.
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Mike's idea sounds like the most cost effective, long term solution ...
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So, did you get anything figured out on the tank yet?
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So, did you get anything figured out on the tank yet?
Nah, going to install the temporary one tomorrow and get it battened down. Still trying to make the trip for Minnetonka...Marissa has a VB tournament on the 20th, but thinking I'll come up Saturday night, do the lake trip, then winterize & store the boat at Mom's for the winter.
Its going to have to get fixed, and I'm not messing around with it again...so it'll go to Knoxville. I can't really find a decent fit replacement without compromising storage, or seating options.
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Started cleaning up the tank from Joe tonight...no major issues, smelling a little varnish, but easy clean up there...looks good.
Filler neck and vent aren't in the most ideal places, but nothing wrong with filling up inside the boat right? (Provided its capped, and vented outside the boat right?)
I think I'll have to turn the tank around so the pickup is at the stern, and that means the filler is in the stern as well. Then I'll need to connect up the vent.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FnTv8MvTXzA/VA0pXVWhS3I/AAAAAAAAdOE/tC9_kgXAzIw/s800/WP_20140907_004.jpg)
And then I thought...hmm...let's just try it:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-roX_YzmQhts/VA0pW1wVFHI/AAAAAAAAdOA/nU_2P6iXX2o/s800/WP_20140907_005.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-mRCgAIpABRM/VA0pV7vD-tI/AAAAAAAAdN0/PEJqJIVTmb8/s800/WP_20140907_007.jpg)
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Uhhh ...... Oops.
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I already knew it wouldn't...but its closer than I thought!
At this point, I need to get mine fixed...I've come to the conclusion its the only way.
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Pulling back my leaky tank thread.
Finally brought the tank down to Dripeze in Knoxville, IA.
The tank it too long to fit in their ovens to do the TankRenu process on it...so...that's out. He brought it to an aluminum welder specialist in town. After examining the tank, and pressure testing it, there are many pinhole leaks, and the corrosion is bad enough they're not sure it can be saved. SO...they're going to quote me a price for a new one, and also price out skinning the bottom with a new one with some plug welds to tie it all together.
Being that Knoxville, IA is the short track capital of the world, there are a multitude of metal fab shops located there...so we'll see what happens. I may end up running Joe's tank for the summer. (Won't be pretty, but it'll work.)
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Has anyone ever looked into building one or having it built. Fairly certain the OEM place that built it for my Z is not around, but sure there are places that could. Tim and I built a custom tank for his GT. Maybe other belly tanks, poly maybe, that fit a v hull might be available. If it were me, I would cap the openings, pressurize to 10 psi, then use some soapy water to find all the thin leaky spots. Use a punch to determine thin areas. Being able to pull your tank out is a plus, wish I did mine that way.
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I think the plan is to have a new one built provided the price isn't outrageous...
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I've had several tanks made to spec's with these folks, not too expensive
and was built to perfection.
http://www.speedytanks.com/index.html (http://www.speedytanks.com/index.html)
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Doran, Check out Hometown Fabricating in Albia, IA.
They do all our aluminum welding at work. They do great and are very economical. If you need the aluminum cut out let me know.
http://www.hometownfabricating.com/ (http://www.hometownfabricating.com/)
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Well, price quote came back at $1,050 for a new tank, majority of the cost is materials...so regardless of the manufacturer. Going to look at other alternatives after talking with the welder sometime this week.
Why the heck can't I just wrap the outside in fiberglass, and coat the inside with POR-15 (or Red Kote) and be done?
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Red made a fiberglass tank, but that prob wasn't all that cheep either.
could either the tank i gave you or the one i sent pix of be modded to fit ?
i could do some welding.
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Red made a fiberglass tank, but that prob wasn't all that cheep either.
could either the tank i gave you or the one i sent pix of be modded to fit ?
i could do some welding.
Yes, probably Joe...I think the one in the pix is likely a better candidate.
There's a couple of CVZ-18 parts boats in the wild that I'm going to try and find a replacement tank from first, but we can talk about that for next winter possibly. You and I have a ton on our plates right now.
Thanks!
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Just finished some glass work on a vw trike that has an all fiberglass fuel tank. I was surprised that glass could withstand direct contact with fuel. Appearantly it does so well enough that a fiberglass fix on you tank should be acceptable. Clean and shiny, the resin should bond. I would suggest a sandblast to prep. As suggested earlier, I would map all the thin spots, then determine a course of action. You found some CVZ's in the wild?
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Found foreandaft.com has Moeller poly belly tanks under $400, I do not have my dimensions, but since your tank is out, maybe you could find a suitable size. Bad thing about poly tanks, that I heard, is no baffles to control slosh. Might not be an issue?
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Not sure if you are still looking, but found this. Actually they have a whole page of tanks. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_fuel-transfer-lubrication+auxiliary-transfer-skid-tanks+auxiliary-transfer-tanks (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_fuel-transfer-lubrication+auxiliary-transfer-skid-tanks+auxiliary-transfer-tanks)
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/TANK.PNG)
Features + Benefits
Rust-resistant aluminum construction
0.090 heavy-duty aluminum tank
Fully welded seams
100% pressure-tested and submerged to test for leaks
Tank can be used for extended use engines needing diesel, gasoline, oil and bio fuel
Pontoon, power sprayer, generator, and many other applications
0.187-ga. heavy-duty mounting tabs on the bottom of the tank
Made in the U.S.A.
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Yo D. I got a 14 gal TODD tank up for grabs. 7"H x 18"W x 26"L
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I have thought and thought about the best way to approach this...I *could* fit the tank I have from Joe under a reworked bench seat and probably be perfectly happy, then move to having a nice ski locker in the floor.
I *could* also possibly find and off the shelf small tank (or 2) to fit in the floor.
I could get it repaired and 'get by' for a while, but that's not ok with me if I intend to sell it down the road.
I'm going to get a quote from Red's place, speedytanks and see what that brings. There are the 2 boats in MI as well and I could see about buying a tank from him...but that could be more of the same.
I have had the random thought about turning Goldie into a 2+2 style with 2 bow seats and 2 captains seats in a 'cockpit' with a nice sunpad instead of the benchseat.
Dunno, would look cool I think. Lots to think about.
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" I *could* fit the tank I have from Joe under a reworked bench seat and probably be perfectly happy, then move to having a nice ski locker in the floor. "
How much "rework" would be involved ?
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" I *could* fit the tank I have from Joe under a reworked bench seat and probably be perfectly happy, then move to having a nice ski locker in the floor. "
How much "rework" would be involved ?
Well, its one of the reasons I've never been in any hurry to get a professional interior installed. Bench seat isn't really ideal at this point anyway.
I have a couple concerns of doing it:
1) CVZ's are already stern heavy vs. the CVX. Having a belly tank moves the weight of fuel farther to the stern.
2) Having the fuel above deck, with the tank horizontally situated moves that much more weight above the waterline, and will have the fuel sloshing
side-to-side.
3) I just don't know if I'm comfortable having the engine & fuel tank that close together. I think from a safety standpoint, that's probably not a smart
thing...
So...an off the shelf belly tank...never seen one with the filler neck where it needs to be on the CVZ, and never seen one with dual vents to prevent a vacuum condition when running.
Hopefully the place Red recommends will come through with a decent price. I need to get my tank back from the shop to get a quote done.
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" Hopefully the place Red recommends will come through with a decent price. "
Maybe best to " Bite the bullet " and do it right / expensive way ...
G/C might have put it there for a reason, and after all the work of changing / modifying it you could have handling problems.
Nothings ever easy ... LOL
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ya can get a 4x8 sheet of .100 alum for between $130 and $160 (depending on what you get) at midwest steel.
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ya can get a 4x8 sheet of .100 alum for between $130 and $160 (depending on what you get) at midwest steel.
Well, it'd probably take 1 1/2 by the time the baffles were added I suppose.
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I got a used one at Boat Motor Recyclers for $20. Check there and Twin City Outboard. Ya never know.