Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: BIGZEE on October 22, 2014, 11:44:00 AM
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Hi every one,just a quick guestion,I have a 1986 cvx-18 and the dash where the gauges are mounted has a plastic smoked 1/4 inch thick trim almost whole length rounded at the ends it has cracked in a couple of places, can this be replaced or are there different options?
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Me too, 87 cvx18. Mine has a hole where they mounted the "tape Deck", and Id really like to replace with new. I imagine any good plastics shop can make it, but I'd like to hear from anyone who had a good experience and a recommendation plus some idea of cost.
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I have taken mine off. It appears to be regular clear plexi with a black plastic back. Fimding a good way to cut it and make the holes without any chipping or cracking could be the hard part.
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I've replaced and made a couple plexi pieces on my boats and have found that a thin metal blade in a 4" grinder works well to cut things out. Go slow and it seems to make a nice sanded cut that can then be buffed out fairly easy. Over cut the pattern then sand down with the grinder blade. Try it on a couple scrap pieces first to see how fast to work the cut.
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What part is cracked - the plastic, or the plexi?
I know for sure the plastic will solvent weld with MEK.
There is a product for solvent welding acrylics, too, and I believe it's mostly MEK, as well. Any plastics shop that manufactures or distributes plexi and acrylic should have some in stock.
I've been solvent welding cracked ABS car panels for years and years. You tend to crack a few when you're pulling a car's interior out. I made a repair on the Volvo I currently drive back in 2009 - it's on the trim that overlaps the carpet at the rear door. Kids are stepping on it every time they get in and out of the car - still holding. I have to hunt to find the "scar" where the crack was repaired.
Back when I was in college, I use to buy smoked acrylic to build my architecture models out of. Every semester I'd have to buy a small bottle of the solvent weld product so I could put the models together. I've stood on those models and I can say from experience the acrylic will crack in a new place before the joint breaks.
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It is the Plexiglass, not the plastic. While a weld may hold, it would be extremely visible. The thing is, it is like clear or light grey plexiglass with a black plastic backing much like super dark tint film, but the film has stencils on it labeling the fuses and switches that would need to be replicated. I plan to pull mine this year and start to make drawings. I think I have a guy who can print and cut to shape the backing film to match the lettering and red trim lines that show through around the buttons, but would have to print it in 1 big sheet full length in order to avoid seams and patchwork look behind the plexiglass.
If I did , we would yield about 6 to 8 dashes worth of backing film in 1 run to use the width of the media.
I will let you know how that goes. Then, does anyone know the go-to source for the plexiglass cutting, drilling, and slight curve shape which needs a gentle heat bend? Do you think the gauges holes on different boats would be exactly located the same, or drilled and mounted 1 boat at a time?
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Chad
I would be interested in a dash as mine is full of holes and a radio i could put in a different spot.
Mine boat is in storage but should be the same as yours.
Jeff
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Then, does anyone know the go-to source for the plexiglass cutting, drilling, and slight curve shape which needs a gentle heat bend?
Chad,
Try these guys in Minnetonka. I used to know a guy(Jeff Hovell) that worked there but haven't talked to him in years so don't know if he is still there or not.
http://www.allencomfg.com (http://www.allencomfg.com)
Nice runnning into/meeting you last weekend in St. Boni.
Kip
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Turns out Allenco is about 2 blocks from my office. I will walk down and talk to them, see if Jeff H is there.
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Great! Hope it works out.
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A few pictures "before" starting deconstruction last night with details on stencil and printed texts
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dash1.jpg)
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dash2.jpg)
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dash3.jpg)
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dash4.jpg)
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dash5.jpg)
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dash6.jpg)
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The dash is clear plexiglass, they applied stencils for all the lettering and just spray painted the back in black, then painted the red and white over the black to fill in the the colors from behind. (See the white patches from the switchs and the CVX logo.
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dash7.jpg)
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Just thinking that with Plexiglas, some LED's, and some etching/engraving you could develop a really cool looking side lit dash that would illuminate the engraving. Maybe I can find a picture of such a thing, seen it done before and always thought what a neat idea.
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Ross has a friend who can do the plexglass engraving. I have a neat sign he made for me which has a picture of the CV16SS. Looks really cool when lit up. I'll have to take a picture.
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It is obvious that the CVX 18 logo needs to light up at night, and of course the gauges need new LED back lighting as well.
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Etch or engrave from the back, they would stay cleaner since the dash would be smoother. A company makes a unit directly for edge lit signs, search for KLUS B1890. It is an aluminum channel with the LED's built in. If you incorporated some fiber optic distribution, you could light up the gauges with the same lights, or even set it up to be different/selectable colors. Jason's picture was laser etched I believe and it came out nice, there was a post for somewhere on here awhile back if memory serves me correctly.
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These newer style rocker switches that light up when on are nice too.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/blinddate/switches.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/blinddate/media/switches.jpg.html)
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(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/23/39b7ed25711ace4340b26e2567a3184f.jpg)
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Sounds like Eaton-Quade also makes plexy dash boards ...
Need another source for CVX-20 Windshield.
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11086 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11086)
Eaton Quade
http://www.eatonquade.com/main/default.htm (http://www.eatonquade.com/main/default.htm)
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Good leads on Plex / Acrylic machining sources. thanks. Allen Co builds plastic walls for NHL hockey, and any order I place will be behind $750,000 in orders from hockey rinks.
Need to find another source, and I think that Acrylic might be tougher than Plex, but softer. Any materials opinions? Plex Vs. Acrylic?
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Chad
I think acrylic and plexi are one of the same could be wrong.
Could it be that maybe you are talking acrylic vs lexan.
Lexan is much softer and much more pliable, but it scratches very easy and you cannot get rid of them by sanding and polishing.
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What if you try a company that does water jet cutting. There is a firm near my home that does just that and they cut anything from metal to plastic. A flat piece such as your dash should be quite easy to do and they could even rearrange the location of switches and gauges to suit your needs. They also should be able to source the material.
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A question for all those recent flake coaters, codename whitey are your out there?
The original dash was spray painted black from the backside onto 1/4 plexiglass. I plan to make one an exact replica of the original. But if I have extra blanks, do you think it could be sprayed with a thin layer of red flake and red gelcoat onto the back of the plex? Wonder if it would stick? Wonder if it would chemically melt the Plex?
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Looks like it could work, prep involves sanding plex.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.aviation.soaring/fGVDGmkHLxc
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A question for all those recent flake coaters, codename whitey are your out there?
The original dash was spray painted black from the backside onto 1/4 plexiglass. I plan to make one an exact replica of the original. But if I have extra blanks, do you think it could be sprayed with a thin layer of red flake and red gelcoat onto the back of the plex? Wonder if it would stick? Wonder if it would chemically melt the Plex?
i have never tried it, but looking at Greg's post looks like it would work.
from my first experience with gel/flake there is no such thing as "a thin coat" though spraying it on the back of plexi would save having to make it thick nuf to sand it all off.
i have red flake if ya want to do a test.
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Thing is, we cannot sand the plex, because we will be looking at the flake through the plex. It would be Okay for the coat to be 1/8" thick.
Could go with a layer of Flake in clear on the back first, then another coat of red behind it.
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Sand the back of the plex with 600 or higher grit. Add some flake to clear and spray. You could do Gel or regular base/ clear. Don't see why it wouldn't work. The in color bug shields for cars or trucks are usually just a clear shield painted the body color on the back side so it wont chip easily.
I have sanded base clear with as low as 400 grit and recleared it. Couldn't see the sand scratches when you were done. I would recommend staying with 600 grit or higher though.
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Thing is, we cannot sand the plex, because we will be looking at the flake through the plex. It would be Okay for the coat to be 1/8" thick.
Could go with a layer of Flake in clear on the back first, then another coat of red behind it.
right, prob more than 1 layer with flake.
like Shawn said, need to sand, the clear should fill the sanding scratches. just need to do some test panels.
i dont think i have any clear gel left, but it would be easy to test with clearcoat.
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Since its going onto the Plex, it does not need to be Gelcoat. It could be any suitable clear to carry the flake and stick.
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You could spray a coat of clear and while it is wet sprinkle the flake by hand on until you get the coverage you want. Then another coat of clear over the flake to hold it in place. You wouldn't have to mix the clear flake together. When I did the 18 I sprayed clear then sprayed the dry flake into the wet clear the a couple coats of clear over everything. It is going to be on the back side so you don't have to worry about scratching it or sanding and polishing.
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Wouldn't it be much easier to just get a spray can of metal flake paint ?
Or is there a reason you want gel ?
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Gregg
cant get "big" flake in a rattle can
Shawn
that would be so easy, could get 100% cover with the flake.
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"cant get "big" flake in a rattle can"
AAHH ... OK ...
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You can get metal flake, carbon fiber, chrome, etc looking vinyl and apply that to the surface. then no paint needed and change it to what ever you want when ever you want.
http://alsacorp.com/alsa_film/all_films/premium_film_shimmerin_film.html (http://alsacorp.com/alsa_film/all_films/premium_film_shimmerin_film.html)
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Wonder if I could get all the lettering and stencil lines, and logo printed on a wrap,and just apply the wrap to the back side of the plex? combinations for textures, effects and graphics unlimited even flake effects. But....... would fake flake be allowed?
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"But....... would fake flake be allowed?"
Don't ask .. Don't tell ..
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Only prob with doing vinyl is you would probably have to apply it to the front. Unless you can find vinyl with a clear adhesive that is on the colored side to stick to the back of the plexi.
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Wonder if I could get all the lettering and stencil lines, and logo printed on a wrap,and just apply the wrap to the back side of the plex? combinations for textures, effects and graphics unlimited even flake effects. But....... would fake flake be allowed?
They used fake Burlwood vinyl on a lot of the boats so it may be Grandfathered in?
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I have been talking to Crowne Plastics of Plymouth MN about fabrication of the Dash. They were recommended by Mtka Glass for a project like this, and their website makes them look perfect for the job. I showed them pictures and measurements, and told them that I wanted at least 5 pieces in the first run. Before even hearing how much I was willing to pay for the machine setup and the pieces, I got this reply:
"Chad,
I talked to my programmers and they would not be interested in programming something like this. Sorry. You could bring them in and we could decide if we want to make a master template and keep that for future orders.
Let me know. "
I think I will keep looking for the right fabricator.
Their planning to do "bearing Router" copys. (http://employees.casinotrac.com/router.JPG) I think I could do that myself.
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Hi everyone. Hyperacme has invited me to join in here. More about me later. I do CNC for fun and was given a link to this thread. I'm also a Glastron guy. The dash or various dashes you point out so far look like a fun project. 99% of the work is the drawing. Looks like one tool and three MOPs; inside, outside, and maybe drilling. That whole piece would cut in less than 10 minutes. Not making promises but I would like to give it a shot. I would need a drawing or trace outline to set up a prototype.
Rick
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Welcome to the forum Rick !
Hope it works ... almost impossible to find dash in good shape ...
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I currently have the original, an exact trace, and I am in the process of adding Dimensions . I have found sources for the blanks at $21 for 1/4 and $31 for 3/8 stock. We have about 5 members currently with an interest in getting a new one.
I will definitely reach out to you and share the drawing.
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Fedex Office has a roll scanner. You could have that scanned and I could take that straight into drawing. No measurements needed.
R
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Fedex Office has a roll scanner. You could have that scanned and I could take that straight into drawing. No measurements needed.
R
That would be a great way to skip all the hand entry stuff!
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Here is a link to a pdf of the roll scan. The thing the scan does not show well is that I used the line of the paper edge as the zero point for all vertical coordinates. I will see if I can add that line. The drawing was done at 1:1 from a trace of the part. The hole sizes were taken with a digital caliper measure from the actual part. I am going to attempt to build a 3d cad model of the part next. Is there enough there rheine to create a CNC tool path?
cvx18dash PDF (http://employees.casinotrac.com/OceTDS00507.pdf)
strait from the dining room table.
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dashx.jpg)
NOTE: After checking again, I missed the dim and x/y of the ignition key hole. I will add that soon.
WARNING: The 0/0 point is at the lower left corner, and since the part angles up from that point, there is one A hole that has a negative value in the Y dimension.
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Looks like lots of time and dimensioning work. Very interesting. Thanks for the challenge. I will start on this right away. If I enclosed this whole dash in a rectangle what would the width be? I think we will try for a dash blank first in a proto material. BTY, I am not an engineer just like most of you I suspect. CNC is just something I picked up..
Rick
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start with a horizontal line 53 7/8" long. Then at the center of that line perpendicular, go up 1 3/4 " and make a point. Draw an arch radius from the endpoints of that line through the center line point, and you have a great start. That line 53 7/8" long is the ZERO point for the hole chart and the angles. That was the problem with the scan, you could not see the edge of the paper which was used as that reference line. Because of the flared out angles from that zero point, the blank is 4" longer at the top than at the bottom where we are starting out, so we need a blank size about 57" minimum. Have fun. you can PM any questions.
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Ignition hole is 0.823" D, which is a loose 13/16. Center point is 3 1/8" up X 26 11/16" over from the zero/zero point.
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I might be late to the party, but I've sprayed metallics behind clear plastic and it doesn't look as good as you'd imagine. It's very "2D" without the depth you'd expect. Clear RC bodies are sprayed from the inside, and also I sprayed a set of headlight covers. Came out nice, but not with the depth of the Glastron flake.
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I was able to edit the PDF scan adding the baseline to the drawing, and the Ignition switch hole dims. if you reload the PDF from the link above it should have those additions.
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Just to keep everyone interested up to date. Diamond Chad has been exchanging information with me to get the dash drawing ready for CNC. The first pass is done and GCODE is ready. We are now checking the drawing against the sample dash to make adjustments. So far it looks encouraging. I see others mentioned LED or custom switch holes and even image engraving. All that is really simple once the first dash drawing is certified. One challenge I have is the cutting over 48" long.
(http://blastmediaworld.com/Rick/GlastronDash/dash7.jpg)
I see I need to add the ignition switch hole.
Rick
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Just a little update here. Testing a reverse sticker for the switch panel
(http://blastmediaworld.com/Rick/GlastronDash/Dash-Lettering.jpg)
Rick
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Perfect test fit! Great work.
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dash9.jpg)
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Wow, that's going to be great!
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Adapting the newer style dash to older CVX-18's: carlsoncvx18 told me that older CVX-18's had an indented dash similar to the CVX-16's. That the dash design we have been working on would apply just to newer models. I bet hyperacme can tell us from the brochures what year they switched.
Well, it seems the hull did not change, mine has the indent behind the dash molded in the fiberglass, and they just bolted an upholstered cover over that area with mounting blocks drilled to support the dash area over the indent. See the picture below. So if anyone wants, we can make this new dash, and document the support cover that goes with it, and you can install this new dash design on an older hull.
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dashindent.jpg)
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Adapting the newer style dash to older CVX-18's: carlsoncvx18 told me that older CVX-18's had an indented dash similar to the CVX-16's. That the dash design we have been working on would apply just to newer models. I bet hyperacme can tell us from the brochures what year they switched.
Well, it seems the hull did not change, mine has the indent behind the dash molded in the fiberglass, and they just bolted an upholstered cover over that area with mounting blocks drilled to support the dash area over the indent. See the picture below. So if anyone wants, we can make this new dash, and document the support cover that goes with it, and you can install this new dash design on an older hull.
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/dashindent.jpg)
Very interesting!
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Well, it seems the hull did not change, mine has the indent behind the dash molded in the fiberglass, and they just bolted an upholstered cover over that area with mounting blocks drilled to support the dash area over the indent.
Makes sense as it would have been very costly to modify or make a whole new deck mold just to change the dash. A big issue with my dash is I can't put new gages in because the cut-out diameters are too small. I suspect something changed in the industry at one point with "standard" gage diameters and that's why Glastron changed the dash in the CVX18. I believe 1986 is when they went to a different style dash.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/blinddate/cvx18dash-1.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/blinddate/media/cvx18dash-1.jpg.html)
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I can CNC cut one of those sure enough.
R
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Hard to see but looks like Kip is right about year changed.
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1979 / 1983 / 1984
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That last picture you posted Gregg is funny. How did she get in the shot?
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Yup i believe Chads is a 1986 and mine is 1987 both have the same dash.