My CVZ rebuild - I have a question/problem thread

[dorelse]

Here's my entire album...I always said I'd organize is someday (someday hasn't arrived) but its somewhat in order.

[Scott in nh]

Here's my entire album...I always said I'd organize is someday (someday hasn't arrived) but its somewhat in order.

Hi Doran - no links??

[dorelse]

Yeah, check the other thread...

[dorelse]

Yeah, check the other thread...

nevermind...I posted something, somewhere last night...I'll find it.

[dorelse]

https://picasaweb.google.com/114541090970091193930/CVZ18Pictures?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNDGsaze7oqfFg&feat=directlink

[Scott in nh]

Some people have added extra supports to their trailer instead of building a dedicated cradle. You might try that route as it's just another way to support the boat as you work  and it and it is movable.

That is my current plan

[Scott in nh]

So I know this question is as controversial as asking what motor oil to use, but what plywood should I use for the transom and floor and what lumber should I use for the stringers?

Not looking to spend a fortune, but I'm not cheap either.

[Grinder]

So I know this question is as controversial as asking what motor oil to use, but what plywood should I use for the transom and floor and what lumber should I use for the stringers?

Not looking to spend a fortune, but I'm not cheap either.

Here we go again.

[Jason]

http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2434.msg26844#msg26844

[Scott in nh]

http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2434.msg26844#msg26844

Yeah I use the search engine and read the threads (including this one) and it reminds me of the motor oil threads on car and motorcycle forums I visit.

Grinders response confirms my fear lol.

I  was hoping I had missed something and some sort of a consensus had been reached.

I can tell you:
I am not interested in using a composite on this particular boat
I'd prefer not to use marine grade but will if I cannot find comfort in another choice
I'm not interested in experimenting with something that "should work great" but doesn't have a track record
I don't like using crappy looking wood even if you aren't going to see it - if it doesn't come reasonably flat and looks horrible on the outside - what does it look like inside?
I want to be sure that vinyl ester will stick to it permanently

1/2" for the floor?
Same for the transom or should that be built up from 3/4"?

What about the stringers?

Scott

[Scott in nh]

Or let me rephrase the plywood question:

1) how do I identify that the plywood in question has the proper exterior grade that will not delaminate (besides trusting the signage or store employees i.e. what markings or ratings am I looking for)?

2) Is there a particular grade that meets the above (uses waterproof resin), bonds well to vinyl ester resin, has minimal voids, doesn't cost a ridiculous amount and is easy to find?

[GIL_CV21]

Or let me rephrase the plywood question:

1) how do I identify that the plywood in question has the proper exterior grade that will not delaminate (besides trusting the signage or store employees i.e. what markings or ratings am I looking for)?

2) Is there a particular grade that meets the above (uses waterproof resin), bonds well to vinyl ester resin, has minimal voids, doesn't cost a ridiculous amount and is easy to find?

Use ACX grade ply for your project , its way better than the crap they put in them at the factory . You can find it at any lumber yard , just dont use pressure treated ply which could possibly lead to bonding issues . Vinyl ester will bond tenaciously to it so will polyester and epoxy . 
Use Doug fir for the stringers , you can get it in most any length you will need for stringers . Its most commonly used for roof rafters because of its strength. 

[Scott in nh]

So decent progress is being made (see my progress thread) and it is not impossible that I will be cutting wood on Labor Day weekend.

That is of course unless I need to make my own templates for pretty much everything - I have very little to no original wood to use as a guide.

If anybody has dimensional drawings it would save me a ton of time!

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, a hand drawing with dims is all I need.

Thanks

Scott

[Scott in nh]

Also, where did the factory place the plywood floor seams? Does it matter?

[Scott in nh]

My next questions are about fiberglass.

I am going to buy my products here http://www.mertons.com/ as it is nearby and was recommended by some guys on the national site.

Resin:
vinyl ester

tabbing in the stringers:
24 oz stitchmat - sufficient - yes?

Motor mounts:
24 oz stitchmat - is that alone enough or should I add another layer of roving?

Transom:
a layer of fiberglass cloth between the plywood and the transom, another layer over the plywood - 4, 6 or 12 oz? Is one layer enough?

Floor:
a layer of fiberglass cloth - 4, 6 or 12 oz?

Approximately how much of each of the above will I need?

[Hyperacme]

I / we sandwiched biax between the two 3/4 plywood boards for transom, clamped for an hour, mixed resin with cabasol and put that between transom wood and fiberglass on hull, also put it around bottom of transom wood and hull, to fill in gaps.

Sorry, I told Tomas ( Express Composites ) what I was doing and he started grabbing stuff ... he got me very close to how much I needed to complete the job ...  Some one will know and post ...

I used Poly resin, so not sure if this is right for vinyl ester but you could ask Mertons ...
I mixed poly resin with styrene (half and half to thin it out) and coated every exposed piece of wood with it, every hole through the hull (motor mount holes, splash well drain, hull drain, trailer tie down hooks, anodes mount hole, seat bases, etc.) water should never get to wood now !

On a boat floor I did years ago, I ran a bead of 3m 5200 around the edge of floor and hull and then glassed over it,  right or wrong thing to do, I'm not sure ... BUT ... Have you ever tried to remove 5200 ?
That stuff is near imposable to get off !    Even on gel coat ...

[Scott in nh]

Thanks for the response Gregg,

I plan on talking to Mertons, but I don't blindly follow any advice - prefer to hear the options and logic and make up my own mind, so I am asking here as well.

Yes I will thin and seal all wood and openings that expose wood using the correct thinner for the vinyl ester.

I will make a "peanut butter" and bed all joints between the wood and hull.

I think I will use the peanut butter to bed the floors rather than 5200, but I'm sure that works well too.

I'm looking for more opinions on the transom build up, but again I'm sure what you did works well.

I'm not looking to make this thing into a tank - any reasonable job will be stronger and last longer than what the factory did!

Scott

[Hyperacme]

" but I don't blindly follow any advice "

I had a general knowledge of what to use but was unsure of the amounts.
At least 15 members of this site got there supply's and advice from Express last year, Tomas was a great resource and will be missed.
He knew far more from years of experience with fiberglass and resins then I did.
But ...
I understand what your saying about getting all the facts and figures, before jumping into it. 

[Scott in nh]

" but I don't blindly follow any advice "

I had a general knowledge of what to use but was unsure of the amounts.
At least 15 members of this site got there supply's and advice from Express last year, Tomas was a great resource and will be missed.
He knew far more from years of experience with fiberglass and resins then I did.
But ...
I understand what your saying about getting all the facts and figures, before jumping into it.

Thanks, I bought this boat last fall and other projects prevented me from started to work on it until a few weeks ago.
In the meantime I had done a fair amount of reading and there are just so many ways this cat has been skinned!

Anyway I am making measurements tonight and am going to order supplies tomorrow.
I would like to get at least enough woodwork and fiberglass work done before it is too cold to glass to be able to put the motor back in (transom, stringers, rear floor section and engine mounts).

Otherwise I will be at a complete standstill until the weather breaks next April or May.

Of course I can only work on it during the weekends and I have some free and some very busy weekends in the next two months. So depending on the weather, determination and luck - we will see what happens!

[Scott in nh]

So now that a good way to make patterns for the stringers has been offered, I'd like to know how the factory laid out the plywood floors.

The fuel tank area between the stringers has what appears to be the same gray gelcoat as the engine bay, so I would guess that they ran the plywood the long way in 3 pieces with a separate piece covering the fuel tank - correct?

The bow piece appears to end where the forward bulkhead goes.

How was the flooring under the rear seat and under the floatation boxes/engine bay done?

I have seen some photos of plywood being laid side to side, but am not sure I like where the unsupported seams would end up - suggestions?