Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ScottsCVX on April 08, 2017, 09:41:51 AM
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Hey Everyone,
I picked up Frisco's '86 CVX 18 a few weeks back and am working to get it water ready. I will certainly have questions for the the group as the boat comes together, as there are skills required that I have yet to learn. I'm currently working on the engine and trim pump, and have encountered a strange behavior with the trim pump. I have a bad trim switch (up direction) on the throttle, so to verify the pump was working okay, I disconnected the Green/White down wire and the Blue/White up wire from the solenoids and applied 12v directly to the wires. I expected the pump to move the drive up when I applied 12v to the Blue/White wire, but it moved the drive down. The opposite results also happened when I applied 12v to the Green/White wire...it moved up.
Is my assumption correct about the direction of travel? Any thoughts on what may be happening?
Thanks for any help,
Scott
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I suspect that the hoses are connected backwards either on the Rams or the Block that feeds through the gimbal
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I guess that is the only logical explanation. Is the grey line coming from the pump the high pressure line and the black the return? Is there potential for trouble if those are reversed?
Scott
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I don't think you can switch them at the pump at least on the older ones like I have pressure line is a inverted flare in the return line is a compression fitting. And lines on the inside of the block would be pretty hard to switch just because of how their configured.
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I always though that green (grass) down and blue (Sky) is up could be wrong
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I think the power and ground wires for the trim motor go directly to the battery? If they were reversed could that cause it?
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I traced all the wiring today from the throttle to the trim pump and all is correct. The hydraulic hose fittings were interchangeable at the pump, so I reversed them and now it seems to work as it should. I'm not entirely familiar with the mercruiser trim operation, but is the up trim limited? Once the up trim stops you need to use the trailer to bring it all the way up?
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Trim is controlled by the trim puck on the side of the drive and is adjustable. I refer to this as the trim limit, might even be called that. The other puck is the drive position sensor, and is also adjustable. I set the trim limit at roughly 30 degrees up from the level of the hull, but this setting is one that takes a few tries to get just right. Pretty sure there is a factory baseline setting procedure somewhere
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Once the up trim stops you need to use the trailer to bring it all the way up?
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Correct. Once the Trim stops, you use the trailer button to bring it up to the trailerable position.
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Thanks for everyone's input...I found the factory trim limit / trim sender adjustment procedures and got those dialed in. I also uncovered a bad trim sender wire in the process, but now I've got all the gauges in working order. Next step is to get the engine running, but most of the hoses need replacement. The power steering hoses are like Swiss cheese, as I learned after filling the pump and watching PS fluid run into the bilge. Any recommendations on where to purchase the power steering & cooling hose kits?
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I get all my boat stuff from Hannays ...
http://www.hannaysmarine.com/ (http://www.hannaysmarine.com/)
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Thanks for the coupon! I've been in Hannay's many times but didn't know the group had a discount.
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Well the folks in MN are blessed with water and with boat stores, here in Ohmygawd Nebraska, I purchase most of my marine needs through online companies such as iboats.com, Wholesalemarine.com, Overtons, and Boatersmarinesupply. We do have a marine store, but prices are higher, little is stocked unless your craft is less than 10 years old, and its clear on the other side of town.
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Well the folks in MN are blessed with water and with boat stores, here in Ohmygawd Nebraska, I purchase most of my marine needs through online companies such as iboats.com, Wholesalemarine.com, Overtons, and Boatersmarinesupply. We do have a marine store, but prices are higher, little is stocked unless your craft is less than 10 years old, and its clear on the other side of town.
Mike, I call and order from hanny's all the time. they are happy to ship to us and i have not had a problem getting the discount. And they are much cheaper than any of the previously mentioned sites.
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Believe Hanneys is distributor for all marine parts in 5 state area.
They have a huge warehouse.
I have a dealer close to me, but they have to order parts most of the time.
So just go to Hanneys and they have the part ...
Plus ya get to say "HI" to Don !
They also have a very good service dept. , I've had work done there, very happy with them.
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In Des Moines we have a marine parts distributor, Lorenz & Jones in Ankeny. (Assuming that's because I35 & I80 meet here.) Anything I order from iBoats can be immediately picked from the warehouse up provided I call ahead.
Technically, I still have to 'pay' for shipping, but I just have to select the 'free' shipping option and go and grab it.
Though the 15% discount would be nice!
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I will have to check out using Hanneys in the future, especially if the discount applies. Shipping can be a pain, but most places waive the fees if your order is large enough. Unfortunately, you don't have to buy much to spend a lot on boat stuff.
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Scott
I believe that when I had to have one made I think I used pirtek.
Just took them in and they made them for me while I waited.
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Stopped by Hannays on the way home and ordered up a complete set of hoses plus a few other items I just had to have. I also got to talk with Don and soak-up some of his knowledge on boat engines. I hope to have the parts by midweek so I can get the engine running by the weekend.
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Picked up a box of parts from Hannay's Marine last night and started replacing the cooling system hoses on the 5.7L. I noticed a fair amount of scale in a couple of hoses, so I decided to pull the thermostat housing and take a look. Everything was very rusty and after about 30 minutes of gasket and rust removal, I finally got the thermostat out. I'm not sure if the water temp senders are okay, but could I have this sandblasted to clean it up?
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Not certain I would recommend sandblasting a sensor, their skin is rather thin. Maybe try some CLR and a little effort with a scotchbrite pad first. As for the cast parts, muratic acid and a little paint will make them look brand new, but take care and follow the directions, its kinda nasty stuff.
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My thought was to remove the sensors before any cleanup started so they would be safe. If I were to blast it clean, I think using beads or walnut shells would be preferable to sand, since its less aggressive on the casting. I would also avoid any of the machined gasket surfaces. I will look into some other non-abrasive cleaning options.
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Maybe I'm misunderstood, but any of the cast iron parts, using muriatic acid will clean them out like new, really kinda impressive. Doesn't bother the machined surfaces, and when it stops bubbling, the part is likely done. I've heard of block cleaners if you feel the block, pump, intake, or heads has some gunk in it, but I've not used any before. I have, however, had numerous marine engines apart and found water jackets packed with sand. Seems to get in there and then gets baked almost like a ceramic. As for my active boats, I flush them after every use to clean out.
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I decided on the electrolysis method for removing the rust. There are plenty of videos on how it's done, but I treated the thermostat housing for 24 hours and it turned out pretty nice. My bigger problem though is with the temp sender I broke off flush to the housing. The brass sleeve that surrounds the sensor is still in the hole. I tried using a couple styles of pipe extractors, but the extractors couldn't grip the soft brass enough to remove it. I believe my only option at this point is to drill it out and install a heli-coil. I ordered a new sender, so once I get the hole repaired I should be good to re-assemble the cooling system. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/bf0c3c015971cb77c1e07ae1aa2248df.jpg)
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Yeah the brass tends to expand too much into the threads when you use an extractor, I would drill it out until you just start touching the tips of the threads then you should be able to pick the brass pieces out of the threads and clean it up with a tap
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I'll try that first. The more I think about a heli-coil into a water passage, I may introduce a leak between the insert and base material. Teflon tape around the bolt wouldn't help.
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Well, After a couple hours of trying to extract the brass sleeve, it looks like I'll need to locate a replacement thermostat housing. The brass is simply to deep into the threads. Anyone have a housing they're looking to sell? The Mercury part number is 16413. I've included a picture of mine.
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i may have one at home i purchased for my cvz project but i will not need it when the time comes for an engine. I will check when I get home from work this evening and make sure it is what you are needing.
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I would ask a local machine shop, likely they can clear and Chase the threads for little cost. Unless of course someone was willing to donate the part.
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I have big drillbits and pipe taps, I'll bet we could get it out, I'm in North St. Paul
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It looks like the original part became not available in 1999, Mercruiser does have a replacement kit that is still available it looks like. I found a dealer, Leroy Harbor Resort in Canada that shows having one 16413A9 in stock (original part new old stock). They are at 705-456-2120...........
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Hmmm I can't seem to get that page in the right place so it does not cut off words? must be something wrong with the computer I think. At least it is not upside down this time.
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Sorry my thermostat housing is different.
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Best idea yet was the offer from Joe, if he can't fix it you'll need a new one. Im betting the service charge for the fix would be a certain quantity of a local craft brew.
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Joe worked a miracle in about 30 min to remove the brass and clean out the threads. I'll give the housing a coat of paint, a new temp sender and it will be good to go. I tested the other sender and it seems to be in working order.
Thanks again Joe
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Joe is definitely the "miracle man".
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I'm working on the carpet install but I'm having a bit of hesitation about how to tackle the seat risers on the floor. They shaped like pyramid with a flat top. Any thoughts/ideas on how to cover these? I could cut the carpet around the bases and then piece in the pyramids sides or just leave them exposed. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170430/5b60b61c50243989533fdbcea99c1384.jpg)
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Here is view of both seat risers(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170430/742e0df778927ba1976537af17a6f3b8.jpg)
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If it was my boat I'd just cut around them nicely. I think that would look better than trying to carpet them. With the seats in my CVX18, once they were mounted you wouldn't be able to hardly see the bases anyways. Not sure if that's the case with yours.
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What color is the carpet? What color are the seats? I think I would leave them in gel if it were mine.........think I would leave them white gel and maybe "spatter"them with colored gel to match something.
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Carpet is red and the upholstery is light grey, red & black (see pic of seat upholstery and carpet sample). The floor gel is very close to the light grey in the seats. Trying to get all the seams tight on the pyramids would be a challenge. A red & black gel splatter idea may be okay also. Do you think I would have issues with the carpet edge fraying around the base?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170430/6cb4138e658a65b74119cea3660c4e02.jpg)
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Do you think I would have issues with the carpet edge fraying around the base?
Nope - because no one will be stepping on it. I'd just make sure you get the glue right to the edge.
I'm raising the seats in my CVX18 about 1 1/2" when I put the new floor in and that's how I plan on doing mine. I'm also going to go with vinyl on the sides and front kick board versus glued on carpet which is how the boat was built at the factory.
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I just cut mine in an 'X' pattern and it fell around the raised up base...bolted the base down and then it was all sealed up.
Used a bit of carpet glue to hold the carpet to the floor and around the base.
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Just finished up the carpet install - need to do some trimming, but I think it turned out okay. Thanks for everyone's input. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170501/5e8cee8eed1f47501ec098ab1c514795.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170501/5909e1968eb153ebb2ab10813b374b2e.jpg)
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That will most definitely work!!! Nice job!
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Looks great!
I'd be curious how much hull flex you'll get at the stern once you get it on the water. The factory flotation boxes add a lot of strength in the corners at the back of the boat where it is really needed with a CVX18. I'm wondering if I can leave mine like yours, nice and wide open or if I'll need to add some structure back there.
Maybe Jeff Rockwell will chime in and give his two cents.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/blinddate/cvx184-1.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/blinddate/media/cvx184-1.jpg.html)
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Pulled my in the CVZ. I didn't notice any difference...and had never heard that they strengthened the hull. Mine certainly weighed it down.
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I believe the stern foam blocks were there for flotation, but not 100% sure. This boat had a marine urethane foam (US Composites), poured into the spaces under the deck from stern to bow, so that should give support to the hull and provide flotation. I like the space removing the foam provides, so hopefully I'll be okay.
Scott
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I like that space back there too, with all the foam in the floor I don't think you'll have any problem.
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Agree the poured foam in the floor will stiffen up the hull & make it quieter. My '79 just had the 2X4 foam blocks under the floor. One of the things I like about the CVX18 is how open the back is once you remove the rear seat, engine cover & port/starboard sun pads.
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Was working on installing some misc hardware on the CVX and found the black plastic horn vent in a box of parts. The vent looks to have had 6 plastic posts that went into mounting holes, but the posts are snapped off in mounting holes. Any one know how these were attached at the factory...where the glued in? I may have to use a few dots of 3M adhesive to reinstall the vent. There also seems to be a thin black covering on the backside of the vent that may have been used to actually block the vent holes. The thin covering is deteriorating so the vent is more like a vent than a plastic embellishment. Should I block the vent holes again?
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The black plastic you are talking about, I believe is plastic to stop water from getting in. I would use 3m double sided tape to reinstall the grill.
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Same deal with mine, but I have three holes behind it, so I mounted my horns behind the grill. Then used a few dabs of 3m Super Weatherstrip Adhesive Black to hold the grill in place. If there was a film to keep water out, its long gone. I doubt it would matter though, the CVZ open bow is just behind the grill location. On a CVX, I could see a reason to have the grill sealed should a wave break over the bow.
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Here's how the horn grill was attached on my CVX 18. As you stated there are 6 posts held with tinnerman spring nuts. There was a mylar strip glued to the hull covering the holes which i assume is to block water entry. When I put this back together I may just use a piece of polypropylene packing tape.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/glastronjohn18/CVX18/Glastronjohn18%20CVX%2018%20Rebuild/IMG_2354_zpsa04794fe.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/glastronjohn18/media/CVX18/Glastronjohn18%20CVX%2018%20Rebuild/IMG_2354_zpsa04794fe.jpg.html)
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/glastronjohn18/CVX18/horncover%202_zpsohjneozy.jpg) (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/glastronjohn18/media/CVX18/horncover%202_zpsohjneozy.jpg.html)
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I just put black tape over the holes and the vent is held on with 3m double face tape been there for years and hasn't moved with my bad driving
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My opening is a cutout in the same general shape as the vent, but smaller. I'll take a look on the underside, the mounting posts with tinnerman spring nuts are probably still there. The black mylar you mention is what I see stuck to the back of my vent. I'll block off the vent and remount with some 3M tape. Now that the carpet is in, I can reassemble the interior :)
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Has anyone went through the process of re-riveting the swim ladder to solve some of the wobble? Did it help? They look to be a standard alum pop rivet, but I'm not positive.
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Has anyone went through the process of re-riveting the swim ladder to solve some of the wobble? Did it help? They look to be a standard alum pop rivet, but I'm not positive.
I replaced the rivets on the ladder on my V-179. Within a year of use is was back to the way it was.
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Working on the seats today and the swivel mounts I was planning to mount on the floor seat pyramids. The mounts are a bit wide, but with the pyramidal shape I can certainly get a solid mount. I would probably round off the corners a bit to eliminate some sharp corners. Do you think I will be okay mounting the bases right at the shoulder of the floor mounts? The seat bases will be 6 3/8" off the floor. Anyone know what the factory height was at?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170506/e1f15cfe59c798d73168a13d0682dd02.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170506/72e93458cb6bd0f3c23d967fb6681897.jpg)
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Moving on to the winch install. The Fulton model that was new in the parts box could work if I add a 1" spacer between the C-channel and winch, but the handle will need some heat and a new bend to clear the frame. Is moding a replacement winch fairly common or is there a model know to fit?
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Now that I've got the carb clean and the engine running great, I need to verify the gas tank is clean. I've looked through Friscoboater's video library on the rebuild but didn't hear any details on the gas tank. The sending unit is new but I don't want to assume the tank is clean. Does anyone have any experiences to share about inspecting / cleaning the tank? Pipe inspection camera snaked down the filler hole?
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Without going back and re reading the resto process I'm not certain if this was completed previously. Since it's not an easy removal, though easier than a belly tank, I'll offer this suggestion. If it not an electric pump, then find one you can temporarily plumb in. Not to drive the engine, but rather to sample the current fuel. Take a sample and inspect the liquid for debris, rust, water, or other contaminants. How does it smell? Old? Metal tanks rust at the bottom from water in the fuel. If left to stand in a mason jar, water will quickly separate. The best way would be to pull the tank and look inside. Given the new sender and having watched his videos, he likely dealt with any tank issues. If the sample seems good but a bit old, use the electric pump to completely drain tank, refuel, and replace the filter. If the tank is really rusty, I'd oot for a poly tank, fuel leaks are particularly troublesome in boats, don't take a chance.
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Aluminum tank should be what you have. If the sending unit was changed the tank had to be removed which it probably was. At that time I think he would have inspected it. Will not be the easiest thing to remove as the kick board would have to be removed to get the tank out.
I run a good in line filter run for a while and monitor.
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Yes the tank is aluminum and it was removed during the rebuild. A new sender was installed at that time. I hooked up an electric fuel pump to see what I could get out of the tank, but it seems dry. I guess I could add a couple gallons and try the pump again to see what condition the fuel is on the way out. I'd love to peak inside with a camera, but it looks like I'd have to buy one since that don't seem to be rentable. An inline filter would be a good ins policy.
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I would doubt there are any issues with the tank if it's not held fuel since reinstallation with new sender. You could put in a couple gallons, let it sit, then pump out to check if you like. A fuel filter/water separator should be mandatory. Most mercruisers cam with them, they look like small oil filters. Change every year. Should not be hard to find. Given the year and engine used, I'd be surprised if it didn't have one already.
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There is a fuel filter near the fuel pump and it is new. I was considering an additional in-line filter but unsure if that would impact fuel flow. I'll throw a couple gallons in to see what I get coming out. I agree that if the tank has been empty since reinstall it should be okay.
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If you decide you need to look inside I have one of them cameras
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I was able to borrow a camera and take a peek inside the fill hole. The inside of the tank looks very clean - almost like freshly brushed alum. I'll put in a few gallons and pump it out ... to be double sure, but I think I'm good to go
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Finally getting back on the CVX reassembly after graduating my sons
. I've installed the rear seat frame but I'm not entirely sure how the hinges were attached. I found two carpeted blocks in my box of parts that I installed as hinge blocks and now I need to attach the seat. The seat back is attached to the fiberglass flange at the rear, but is it also attached to the floor? I have a bag full of alum angles that must go somewhere. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170625/080de1161027fafb8621b248bf769de2.jpg)
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The base of the seat is attached to the floor. One my boat the factory installed two angle brackets that attached to the front of the seat base. Make sure your in far enough towards the center of the boat so you don't put a screw through the hull. I'd put an angle bracket over the top of each stringer to give the screws something to really bite into, although anywhere on the floor is probably fine. You can bed the screws w/silicon to keep any water/moisture from working it's way into the wood that's underneath the fiberglass in the floor.
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Also your engine cover and side cushions attach w/piano hinges to the back of the seat. Before your mount the seat check the fit. My boat had spacers between the back of the seat and the fiberglass flange to space the seat correctly. In the picture your seat looks like it is sitting too far back but it may be OK. Some variability in these boats. If you look close you can see the wood spacer in the picture
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/blinddate/cvx18enginebayport-1.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/blinddate/media/cvx18enginebayport-1.jpg.html)
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I test fit the engine hatch and I had the rear seat setting about 1.25" to far back. When you mentioned a spacer block, I went to the bin of spare parts and found two carpeted blocks that looked like the belonged in between the flange and seat back. All seems to fit well now.
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With great anticipation I splashed the boat today and ran into a couple issues. When I started the engine, it started in forword gear so i checked out the shift cable and found the cotter pin that hold the adjustment barrel was missing. I had a safety pin in the car, so I got that resolved. Now it seems ive got a fuel delivery issue because it starts and idles but as soon as I give it any throttle it dies and is very difficult to restart. Hannay's ran the engine, adjusted the shift points and also had it a the dyno, so the only thing that has changed is the fuel is now coining from the tank. The fuel/ water separator is new. Could it be the check valve at the tank?
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I don't have a fuel delivery issue so I'm thinking it may be the neutral safety switch? Switch itself works fine and it seems to be adjusted correctly, so I'm not entirely sure of the issue. I also had my trim motor go out in the process of all the testing. Solenoids are working, but the pump just whines a bit and gets hot quickly.
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Anyone have a recommendation for a launch on the St Croix, north end? Hudson, Lakeland, Afton? I assume weekends get busy quickly, so is a 9 AM launch early enough to grab a parking spot?
The starting & running issues were due to the shift cables being out of adjustment. I also have a new trim motor, so its finally go time :)
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The Hudson municipal launch is decent, and there's usually parking spaces there, I think it's 15 bucks. There's also a private pay launch just north of there kind of by the marina on the east side of the river. I have also Launched many times at beanies in Lakeland just south of Highway 94 on the Minnesota side
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9:00 is pretty early, most don't get out till noon.
I did a search for "St.Croix boat ramps" and got this page ...
https://www.google.com/#q=st+croix+boat+ramp&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=45020230,-92784145,6823&tbm=lcl&tbs=lrf: (https://www.google.com/#q=st+croix+boat+ramp&rflfq=1&rlha=0&rllag=45020230,-92784145,6823&tbm=lcl&tbs=lrf:)!2m1!1e2!2m1!1e3!3sEAE,lf:1,lf_ui:2&rlfi=hd:;si:;mv:!1m3!1d64285.01593265731!2d-92.80060674248045!3d45.01377675327915!3m2!1i946!2i547!4f13.1&spf=1499972635900
I like Wind Mill in Afton, because it a short distance from my house, there dock people to help launch and load and golf carts to bring you to your truck ... Ya I'm lazy ... $24 on weekends ...
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9am is kind of the cut off time for the hudson ramp on a nice weekend day. The lot just south of there with the dirt lot will fill up later. Otherwise 4pm is great as everyone comes in at that time.