Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Diamond Chad on July 31, 2014, 02:02:54 PM
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The CVX 16 we bought this spring had a few soft spots on the floor and so the project begins. What could possibly go wrong?
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/IMG955682.jpg)
Thanks to all of your great posts on similar projects I have learned what to expect and the confidence to dig into this project. So far there are no surprises and everything looks good.
The oscillating cutting tool and the knot wire wheel both suggested on this forum have both been life savers. They save literally dozens of hours.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/20140730_182837.jpg)
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The carpet is out, and the old floor cut out. The center beam is solid and well sealed in resin/cloth Im just going to put a coat of penatrating epoxy across the top where I pulled the staples from the old floor. Then we will cut a piece of 1/2' honeycomb composite board to fit back where the old floor was.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/20140730_183107.jpg)
It tapers slightly from 32 1/2" in the rear down to about 30 1/2" near the front, then tapers quickly from 30 " to 16" in the last 16 inches going into the bow. Total length if your not doing the splash well floor is 82" so fits in a single 4 x 8 sheet.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/20140730_183044.jpg)
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I saw a lot of you recommending 3M 5200. If I use a thick bead of that on the edges and center beam, and then glass the edges all around, do you think I will need to use hardware fasteners down the center beam, like screws? The old floor was stapled with 1" staples.
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I wouldn't think so...but I'm anal, so I'd probably use couple then seal them up when you do the floor with fiberglass & resin.
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Hey, that looks familiar!
I used resin on my floor boards all the way around. I used resin on the bottom first and laid the pre cut plywood in, then used stainless screws and weight to the top for a tight fit. The resin sets pretty quick so you can keep moving. I see the piece back by the transom is still in, must be a solid (good wood) piece I assume.
Are you thinking of using foam or the old styrofoam logs, if at all ?
You are correct on the tools, worth there weight in gold.
Looks like the hard part is done.
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The section under the splash well is solid. Im stripping it, soaking it with penetrating epoxy, and bilge paint.
Having some Weights ready for the install is good advise. I am using this Honeycomb composite board from Express Composites.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/20140731_152511.jpg)
The stuff is fairly flexible and easy to cut until you glass it on both sides. Then its tough as nails. and the whole sheet weighs maybe 2 pounds. Tomas at Express set me up with this and the 1.5 OZ glass mat / resin to blanket it once its cut to size.
I saw a thread where someone used those polypropylene foam swim noddles. Since their pre formed with a hole down the center the drainage is built in. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to stuff the space where the foam logs were, with noodles.
Oh Yea, and its almost 1/4 moon and I will consider doing it between 2:30 am and 6:oo am so it does not sink.
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I'm not a fan of the pool noodles...put one in water and take it out...see how much water clings to it...plus there's the potential, given the right size hole...for them to float out of the boat.
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Oh Yea, and its almost 1/4 moon and I will consider doing it between 2:30 am and 6:oo am so it does not sink.
And I thought no one read my posts!! I am glad you heeded my warning, you will be safe.
ROTFLMAO
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Also how much is a sheet of that stuff? maybe I should do the floor of the 23 with it.
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Also how much is a sheet of that stuff? maybe I should do the floor of the 23 with it.
Just about $60 a sheet. But Tomas promises that it will be life changing so I figured what a bargain for life changing technology.
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" Just about $60 a sheet."
Seems reasonable ...
Could you also use it for transom's ?
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I don't think so. He showed me that if stacked several sheets together it is compressible. Its strong enough for a floor but not as crush proof and strong as dense plywood. He has some samples made up at the store so you can see how the finished product sets up.
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" Its strong enough for a floor but not as crush proof and strong as dense plywood "
OK ... They must make some that is solid for transom's.
Wish I had known about this when I did my CV ...
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I'm not a fan of the pool noodles...put one in water and take it out...see how much water clings to it...plus there's the potential, given the right size hole...for them to float out of the boat.
Good point about them as separate noodles, How about if I banded them all together with tie wraps? That still does not solve the water cling matter. What is the best stuff to use? I already threw away the old foam logs. I'm looking for another life changing technology that floats.
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Floor questions ...
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3748.msg44531#msg44531 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3748.msg44531#msg44531)
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i did not use pour in foam when i did my GT150, but after reading and seeing i will on the next project.
i demoed the floor in the 92 1900 i have, i assume that foam is similar to what is used now, it did not hold water like the old stuff from the 70's
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I'm still not sure what you gain. The weight can't be more than a couple pounds. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/IMG_0609_zpsbb6f28a2.jpg)
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It s the weight and the danger. What if doesn't work? What if it does! Either way we will all find out together.
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Pretty sure that the entire reason for Chad's thread is because it is in fact, broke, and it does indeed need fixing.
For $20 more a sheet, I sure as heck would be putting that in my floor too.
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You need a math lesson. By broke I mean the way it came from the factory, Yes the floor needs replacement, but if you have to buy 4 $60 sheets instead of 2 $20 sheets, that's $200 for what?
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Total length if your not doing the splash well floor is 82" so fits in a single 4 x 8 sheet.
I'm only rolling the dice with 1 sheet. So it's only a little dangerous.
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You need a math lesson. By broke I mean the way it came from the factory, Yes the floor needs replacement, but if you have to buy 4 $60 sheets instead of 2 $20 sheets, that's $200 for what?
Knock it off Jerry. Right Now. Either tone it down or don't post, I'm the wrong guy to insult again. Got it?
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I agree with using it. For one the huge weight savings and 2 the longevity of the product.
Had I used this on the 23 I would have saved at least 300 or 400 lbs over the course or construction and had a product that will NEVER rot. I will definitely be looking into this for the remainder of the 23 project that I have.
Plywood Thickness and Weights:
Sanded Nominal Thickness
1/4 3/8 1/2 5/8 3/4 1-1/8
Actual Thickness
1/4 11/32 15/32 19/32 23/32 1-1/8
Approximate weight per 4x8 sheet
22.0 28.5 40.6 48 60.8 84.5
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So making something better then it was ... is wrong ?
My transom was two pieces of plywood held together with four wood screws, none of the through hull holes were sealed with resin.
Hull drainage holes were two inches above floor and unsealed, bottom of floor was bare wood ...
If I had known Express had plastic board for transoms I would have spent $60 more ...
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(https://employees.casinotrac.com/floorinstall.JPG)
Here is a shot of me and Jake installing the floor with the 1/4 moon, at about 3:32 am. Note the cooler on the side is ready for when we have the job complete, and can celebrate with a cold one. As you can see this stuff is really easy to work with, but the jury is out until we see how it sets up when its cured.
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I'm not seeing a picture, just a black square ?
Well it is 3:32 AM ...
edit. Wait! I think I see the faint silhouette of a channel marker ...
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Ha! I just got the joke!
Thanks Doug...I missed it.
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OK ...
I get it ...
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Channel markers can be felt even though they can not be seen.
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I've heard that as well, David.
Sorry about your thread wandering off course Chad, looking forward to seeing what you're working with there. Turn the light on would ya!? ;D
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Those 1/4 moons do not put out much light at 3:30 am
Good luck with your project hope to sea it at Red Wing.
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I now return you to our regularly scheduled CVX gets a new floor program.
This was only a test of the emergency floor material system. Had there been an actual emergency, you would have been instructed on where to find local floor material suitable for your floor.
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After a rich coat of penetrating epoxy and 2 days to dry, first coat of alkyd epoxy down in the bilge and around the splashwell.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/splashwell.jpg)
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Floor measured and layed out on the composite sheet.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/measuredonsheet.jpg)
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Atta boy! Now, refresh my memory. Which composite are we using?
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Cut and test fit before glassing both sides. Material cut well with a sharp utility knife. The material is 1/2" honeycomb composite board from express composites.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/cuttestfit1.jpg)
front: phone cam focus a little blurry, not your eyes.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/cuttestfit2.jpg)
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Sounds/looks like 'Plascore'. Way to go! That's what I'm gonna use for the C500 floor.
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Sounds/looks like 'Plascore'. Way to go! That's what I'm gonna use for the C500 floor.
I think you mentioned that in your "so you think your boats is rotten" Thread. That's what started me doing the research on that material. Yes it is plascore and you are the inspiration! Thanks. Your C500 thread has been my main point of reference to know what I was getting into. Although my seat boxes are different, your pics provided a great roadmap.
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I've been sold on plascore ever since I saw a couple knuckle heads try to break a sheet. The plascore wasn't having any of that.
Good choice.
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Last time we had it out on the water, we had a full tank, and we were getting a gassy smell strongest from passenger front. Figured we had to track it down.
Fuel filler hose is cracked and leaky on CVX 16. Anyone have a good source to get a few feet of that?
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Last time we had it out on the water, we had a full tank, and we were getting a gassy smell strongest from passenger front. Figured we had to track it down.
Fuel filler hose is cracked and leaky on CVX 16. Anyone have a good source to get a few feet of that?
I got mine from Autozone...Napa, etc.
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Hannays stocks it also.
There is a 15% for members (print coupon on vendor page)
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Hannays stocks it also.
There is a 15% for members (print coupon on vendor page)
True, just knowing that the boat is out by Paynesville/Wilmar...long drive for a discount if they're out West...
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Topside with 3" tab all around glassed. The fabric tab will get trimmed and glassed in when set into the hull. Have to flip and glass bottom in about 45 minutes, so both sides get glass before hard cure or may warp.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/topglass.jpg)
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Bottom side of plascore honeycomb getting glass.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/edgeglass.jpg)
Bottom side glassed
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/bottomglass.jpg)
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Built seat boxes wrapping more composite honeycomb with glass and wrapped the the stacks with glass onto the floor.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/seatboxes2.jpg)
Since the composite floor is light and not as compression resistant as plywood, we built 1/4 aluminum plates /studs to put under the floor to support the seats.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/plates1.jpg)
And installed from the bottom for the top plates/seat posts to mount
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/plates2.jpg)
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OK ...
We were wondering what you were going to do about seat supports ...
Looks like you have it all thought out !
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I am happy to know your watching. I will install the top side plates and seat posts today. Then I think its ready to glass back into the hull.
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3" studs in 10 x 10 alum plate sandwich from below floor through seat riser boxes. 11 x 11 1/8" plate on top and 1/4" seat post plates to distribute load over about 100 square inches. Hope its enough.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/postsmounted.jpg)
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Just remember that steel and aluminum are not the nicest friends. The tend to corrode each other.
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too expensive
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yep, Nuts and bolts are stainless. both the top plate and the seat post plate is alum. Should be OK.
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Just remember that steel and aluminum are not the nicest friends. The tend to corrode each other.
True. However in that application it shouldn't be a big deal. Fyi gooping em up real good with 'Loctite' etc will help prevent the electrolysis.
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Weigh in time. 15.9 pounds. Composite, Glass, Resin, 1/4" alum reinforcement plates, hardware installed. Seems very strong. Jury is still out, it still may not work, but as Tomas at Express Composites said, "This stuff will change your life". I'm doing the math.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/15point9pounds.jpg)
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Stones
first time in 30 years I had a reason to move the landscape stones. Used them to weight the floor to the strakes and center stringer so the 5200 glue can dry.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/stones.jpg)
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That's so "Stone age" I do it electrically.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/297_zps169a10ca.jpg)
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I did the same thing when pressing the riser boxes to the floor, but I only had 2 batteries around so after the risers, I was looking around for something heavy (aside from me) that was willing to sit there for 24 hours. Batteries are superior glassing weights, no doubt.
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I've been reading that standard 5200 takes 48 hours to set and 7 days for full cure. I think my plan to be done by Friday is going to be held up while the stones sit there another day. Boo.
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glassed in the 3" fabric tab surrounding the floor edge onto the hull Friday. Dry now and ready for the carpet.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/tabglassed.jpg)
Question? So do you use just regular indoor/outdoor carpet glue to glue the carpet?
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These little black plastic buttons have a surface like velcro and are used to hold the center seat back in place. Does anyone know where to get new ones, or have used an alternative successfully?
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/seatvelcro.jpg)
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Shouldn't be too hard to improvise.
http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/velcro-coins.php (http://www.cabletiesandmore.com/velcro-coins.php)
http://www.fasteners4schools.com/velcror-brand-products/75vckhlis-100e.html (http://www.fasteners4schools.com/velcror-brand-products/75vckhlis-100e.html)
I would also put some anti seizure lubricatate between the stainless steel bolts and nuts. A common practice with stainless steel fasteners through the transom.
I got mine through Grainger.
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and the carpet.
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/carpet.jpg)
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My restro ...
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=4062.120 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=4062.120)
Tape I used ...
I think it was this stuff, but it was $7 for 75 feet.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roberts-Indoor-or-Outdoor-15-ft-Double-Sided-Carpet-Tape-Roll-50-605-12/100645279?N=c1to#.UZWAor4o600 (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roberts-Indoor-or-Outdoor-15-ft-Double-Sided-Carpet-Tape-Roll-50-605-12/100645279?N=c1to#.UZWAor4o600)
Cleaned surfaces with acetone ...
Stuff is like glue, stick it to floor and peel backing off, it not like tape but more like glue with a backing paper ...
Also stapled to wood deck joint.
I cut tape with a scissors and it took some effort with a acetone soaked rag to get it off scissors !
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Thank you for Floor Carpet Tape tip. The liquid stuff is a huge pain in a space like this.
Back is finished out, new manual/auto bilge pump back by the drain, checked out and dressed out the wiring, new battery box, mounted the autoblender. Rear seat can go back in.
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/undersplashwell.jpg)
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It's nice to be Back on the Lake.
Its been a long dry summer for this boat and its been through a lot:
Minor bottom side gelcoat repairs.
Complete rebuild of the merc lower unit by Boat Motor Recyclers in Burnsville (Glides in / out gear like new)
rebuilt stainless prop 21", Just to compare to the 18" that came on it
Tore out soft plywood floor/seat boxes and built back with honeycomb composite and Fiberglass
- New tools to cut and grind
- 4x8 sheet of composite material
- 5 yards of 60" heavy woven glass matt fabric
- 2 Gallons polyester resin
- 6oz bottle MEKP-9 Catalyst (methyl ethyl ketone peroxide <= 45%) hardener
- 10cc measuring syringe
- Resin Mixing container (only make 1 litre at a time)
- 3"paint rollers one for every glassing session
- flattening roller
- construction size tube of 5200 adhesive
- 10" x 10" 1/4" alum plates + stainless hardware
- Hours and Hours
New carpet
Auto/Manual bilge pump
Lots of 303 and Vinyl cleaner
Now we can run around in it. Still needs some TLC on some gelcoat cleaning and polishing, and touch up few scuffs but None that made it through the gelcoat into the precious Flake!
Thanks for all the support and advise!
(https://employees.casinotrac.com/bakonlake.jpg)
edited 9/1/14 correction to catalyst spelling and list updates
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Awesome, congrats!
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Suweet! Way to go!! Feels good don't it?
I had the pleasure of piloting David's '87 at Red Wing. Very cool. Hoping my C500 handles similarly.
Great pic.
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Congratulations on your fine restoration project. Boat looks great.
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Ready for another 35 years plus of FUN !
Look's great !