Post by: wpstarling on October 18, 2018, 06:23:46 AM
Post by: wpstarling on October 18, 2018, 06:26:34 AM
I do have a question though, in the 2nd picture what do I do with those areas where the white arrows are pointing? Do i just rip out the wood and foam and leave it or do I need to get some other type of foam, or do I just leave the foam and replace the wood?
Post by: Plugcheck on October 18, 2018, 07:50:57 AM
Post by: wpstarling on October 18, 2018, 07:59:40 AM
Those are the flotation boxes, their required use is long been debated. Some keep them, some folks remove them. The decision is yours. I would check them by using a long 3/8" drill bit. Drill into the foam at the bottom of the space, parrallel to the hull bottom. If the foam is wet, tear out the boxes. The old foam, once saturated, will both be heavy and unable to provide critical flotation. If you opt to replace them, the correct 2lb foam is fairly easy to work. Some have used the dense construction foam sheets with good results. I prefer the pour foam because it fills all the voids, deadens sound, and really sticks to stuff well. You can also make the boxes from fiberglass panels as well if you like, then you have no more wood rot anxiety.
Ah, alright. I'll have to do some research on it. I've seen it being removed from some of the floor replacement posts on here but wasn't sure if it was the same thing or not.
a few more questions I thought of:
1- What wood/composite does everyone recommend? I've seen marine grade wood, composite from Express composites and then just regular treated plywood used so is it just price and peace of mind that makes the difference?
2- What fibergalss/resin should I use and where is the best place to buy it? I do have a West Marine relatively close to me but if I can find something online cheaper then I'd rather do that.
3- Should I paint/coat the transom/bilge area with anything? Right now it just looks like bare fiberglass and I didn't know if it was beneficial to paint or coat with something.
Thanks guys!
Bill
Post by: Hyperacme on October 18, 2018, 10:08:54 AM
I didn't replace mind for a few reasons, wanted more room for storage, I always boat with other people so some one would be close by to help and I do 99% of my boating on rivers, where shore is close by.
Plus .. My boat is insured for more then it's worth … LOL
If I were to do most of my boating on large lakes by myself I would have added the extra foam. I don't think with my 18 gal. fuel tank in the bow and the other foam in my boat that it would sink, but would sit nose up with motor under water.
The foam in my boxes was dry but transom wood on left side behind box (picture tr1) was so rotted I could remove it with my fingers.
Your bilge bowl is square so they changed the design of stringers in that area. Should look like (picture tr2).
Post by: wpstarling on October 18, 2018, 10:24:18 AM
So there's not any huge lakes near me so I doubt I'll be on anything large, and I don't think i'll be taking this on the Gulf so I don't know if I really need the foam then. Gregg, what's yours look like now in the back if you don't have the boxes?
What about the foam under the floor, is that necessary or no?
Post by: Hyperacme on October 18, 2018, 10:32:54 AM
Good because it's done … Bad because you don't know how well it was done.
The deck had to be removed in order to do it, and on older models deck was riveted on, so it wasn't an easy job.
Was told that early versions didn't have the wood strip running around edge of hull, mine has a wood strip and is screwed together (picture ff10 red arrow).
Do you plan on removing deck ?
I did make a box on right side by battery to hide/store cables and wires, but panel is screwed on so I can remove it.
I haven't painted stern yet but will some day with gel coat ..
Post by: wpstarling on October 18, 2018, 10:41:35 AM
Is Gel coat the best option for the stern/transom area?
I need to finish ripping out the floor and other rotted stuff before I figure out if I'll need to split the boat or not. I'm hoping that I just need to replace the floor/stringers and then the floor running across the back of the dash.
O and my boat does NOT have wood running the length of the hull. It actually looks fiberglassed together to me when I look but it was hot, dark, and I was itchy when I looked so i didn't take a good look.
Post by: Hyperacme on October 18, 2018, 10:48:58 AM
Notches are much smaller then the ones in picture. It's just to show you what was done.
With almost everything on your boat .. There is no (within reason) right or wrong with how and why you do stuff.
What works for me might not for you.
Do some reading and post your thoughts, some one could respond with ideas that enforce or shot your idea down.
Like it or not .. You are now a marine designer … LOL
I did crack my hull .. You might want to add some fiberglass to hull or do some extra stringers.
CV leaker …
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7823.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7823.0)
Post by: Hyperacme on October 18, 2018, 11:04:11 AM
Yep .. riveted on outside and glassed on inside.
If transom is OK, no need to remove deck.
My under splash well / transom was painted when new, gel would seal better then paint.
Or just leave it bare. Water never sits in my boat long enough to absorb into glass.
The side boards that are forward facing are tabbed to bottom/hull and up the side a little, they are up off floor a little to allow carpet to tuck under them for a clean look. They are not attached to deck on top. I screwed mine to deck while I tabbed them to hull and forgot to remove screws from top of board / deck. Got back after first time out and screws had snapped off .. Think deck moves around some.
Post by: Hyperacme on October 18, 2018, 11:38:57 AM
Shawn posted this for me … VERY GOOD READ !
Here is a good article on fiberglass and repairs.
https://www.fibreglast.com/product/fiberglass-repair-composite-repair/Learning_Center (https://www.fibreglast.com/product/fiberglass-repair-composite-repair/Learning_Center)
Here is a link to a lot of fiberglass information. Even info on using metal flake.
https://www.fibreglast.com/category/Learning_Center (https://www.fibreglast.com/category/Learning_Center)
If done right, even exterior ply, poly resin (from a fiberglass supply company and mixed to proper ratios) will last 30 to 40 years.
Fixing some of the design flaws will help (hull drainage) sealing all wood (if used) mixing resin to proper ratios (measuring cups and syringes) and good glass will out last you.
Your motor is within ratings for the hull, so you shouldn't need any major design upgrades.
Doug's buddy's built some crazy cool boats, but there mounting 150 to 200 HP motors on the stern.
C500 Spy Pics …
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7551.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7551.0)
Post by: wpstarling on October 18, 2018, 01:02:50 PM
I'll take a look at those links, I've seen posts about all the different options but have read so much i'm now confused lol. As I stated in my other thread, I don't necessarily need a boat that looks brand new but I want it done right so that I don't have to do it again for a long while, hopefully it'll last until my kids are my age and they can do it haha.
I was going to sell the motor but the more I think about it I think I'll stick with it, it just needs a cleaning and some TLC with some hoses and such. I'm going to try and finish getting the floor up this weekend but we'll see how that goes, I'm still helping people clean up from the hurricane (we didn't get hit as bad as Panama City but not everyone can cut up trees and move the stuff that did fall in their yards.
Thanks again for the links and help Gregg. i wish I lived closer to y'all to be able to attend the meets and get help from fellow G/C owners. Doesn't seem to be a big following for classic boats anywhere near me.
Post by: Hyperacme on October 18, 2018, 03:00:45 PM
Price of the package brought the value of the motor down !
Is compression OK ? Gear case (shifts gears) OK ? Did it run ?
Set up right .. You'll have a 55 MPH/GPS boat with that motor !
After cracking my hull, my floor is also removed. My stringer is wrapped well, without any rot, so no need to replace.
Not sure how or why my hull cracked, but Ed had his hull done with braces (not sure of exact term, picture 05).
Ray is going with a core, which is strong and light, but a lot of work.
I'm not sure yet if I'll just lay some 1808 glass down or lay glass and some sort of short stringers (running same as stringer) on ether side to support hull in that area ..
After reading about composite flooring, and that you would have to glass both sides, plus would have to put supports under seat base's I think I'm going with ply, maybe marine if I think far enough ahead to order it from home supply store .. LOL
I'll be useing vinylester resin, because it a little more price wise then polyester, but is a newer stronger version of poly. Maybe ...
I'm not adding foam under floor, mostly because of product added price, and less because of it's down sides ..
Maybe if I had added foam to my hull it wouldn't have cracked ?
BUT .. Don't get your resin from home supply store .. Get it from a fiberglass supply company. Mix to there exact ratio ! Get measuring cups and syringes to get it right ! If you don't get it right it will kick to soon and heat up, or it might never cure .. Picture "Hotbatch" is some Bondo brand resin thinned down that got a little hot !
Plan a head before you start glassing. Cut and fit all fiberglass before mixing. Get lot of rubber gloves, cheap paint brushes and small rollers. Have someone mixing resin while you lay it out.
Thay slapped your boat together as fast as possable from the factory .. Your going to do a much better build then they did ..
Post by: Plugcheck on October 18, 2018, 08:15:30 PM
Post by: Hyperacme on October 18, 2018, 08:29:58 PM
What year is your Johnson ?
Post by: wpstarling on October 18, 2018, 08:37:30 PM
Post by: Hyperacme on October 18, 2018, 09:21:25 PM
Some marine mech. on the forum and other members have had bad luck with Sierra aftermarket parts.
Would be best to go with OMC / BRP parts.
Post by: wpstarling on October 22, 2018, 07:50:54 AM
Also when removing the gauges I removed the plate that has the serial number on it and it seems odd. As you can see the piece with the serial number on it looks like it was cut from another piece of plate. Looks suspicious, is this how Glastron did it or did someone make this? Is there anywhere else on the boat that the serial number could be checked?
Post by: Oldfishguy on October 22, 2018, 08:44:30 AM
My 1972 hull and 1973 interior and gel color. I suspect a left over hull made in 1972 that made it to the 1973 production line somehow. I'm sure they didn't want to waste a hull.
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5298.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5298.0)
Post by: 75starflight on October 22, 2018, 08:57:32 AM
Post by: wpstarling on October 22, 2018, 08:59:20 AM
Go to the back of the boat and the serial number will be stamped into the hull; the last two digits should give you the year the hull was made. What does it say?
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5298.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5298.0)
There's nothing on the back that I can see. The transom was replaced so maybe whoever did that work covered it up, or I could be missing it, is it port or starboard side?
Post by: Hyperacme on October 22, 2018, 10:19:16 AM
It didn't match up with a plate from a 1972 G/C CV21 plate, but could be from a Glastron ?
Maybe … I don't have any Glastron plates saved, so not sure.
First picture is a 1971 CV16 data plate.
Second picture is a 1972 CV21 that I clipped picture (4-21dp2)
Third picture is your number.
Forth is clipped 72 CV21 data plate, didn't line up right
Post by: Hyperacme on October 22, 2018, 10:32:01 AM
Was it just set in there, glued ? Taped ? Can you take a picture of back side ?
Dave (1972 CV16) and Jason (1974 CV16SS) found tags glassed in around the piece of wood behind dash.
Look around to see if you might have one, think they said it was near side of hull tabbing.
Post by: Hyperacme on October 22, 2018, 10:35:19 AM
Post by: Hyperacme on October 22, 2018, 10:52:06 AM
Pretty sure G/C never did three stringers.
Was floor done well, tabbed in, covered with glass ? Do you think they did a good job, aside from not sealing bottom of wood ?
Are stringers still solid ?
Second picture is my hull, which has a crack along right side chine.
Post by: wpstarling on October 22, 2018, 11:34:00 AM
Honestly the stringers are in great condition. They are solid throughout and i didn't find a single section that was soft so it looks like they were done well. I need to still tear a little bit out of the front and back floor where the main stringer is but the part i can see/feel was dry so we'll see what it looks like when I'm done removing the rest of the floow. Outside of the bottom of the floor not being glassed over the rest of it was done well, definitely not the persons first attempt at fiberglass.
Also the SN piece was glued to the back originally but once I took the plate off the glue didn't hold very long so it looked original but I just didn't know. Seemed odd to me.
Another thing, I think the boat was originally an orange. The current red is obviously a roll on job over the blue, which had no flake in it and in some places the blue is peeling off and showing a copper/orange/gold color. I think I am going to end up doing a lot of sanding to get all the coats off.
Post by: Hyperacme on October 22, 2018, 12:33:54 PM
Hope they didn't fill in SN because something "fishy" was going on …
Sometimes people paint boats because they don't like the color, others think because gel / flake is cloudy and dull it shot. Your flake might still be OK. Being painted would keep it from fading any more then it was before being painted.
Remove old paint on deck and see how bad it is. You could get lucky and it just needs some wet sanding /compound and it'll shine like new. Some have used paint remover, brush it on, wait awhile, scrap it off with plastic scraper. Hope some one comments on which brand to use.
That a good sign that floor was done well. so maybe the transom was also well done.
I know you wanted blue, but apricot is a very cool color, my favorite .. Check out Dave's (Oldfishguy) CV pictures ..
Post by: wpstarling on October 22, 2018, 12:43:35 PM
I'm hoping the transom was done well, it looks pretty good, although there's a weird plug looking thing next to the drain plug, i'll take a picture and see if you guys know what it is, it doesn't go all the way through the transom but it's near the drain hole on the port side.
I actually don't mind any color, my wife wants orange after seeing fireman's cv-23 that he restored. I like the way it looks on a boat (even if I'm a Florida State fan and all of our rivals have orange as one of their school colors lol). I just want it to stand out, so either refresh the original gel or paint it with some flake :)
Post by: Hyperacme on October 22, 2018, 01:45:21 PM
Or ..
Drain for hull, because he didn't have hole that would drain hull into bilge bowl.
Post by: wpstarling on October 22, 2018, 01:50:22 PM
Post by: Hyperacme on October 22, 2018, 02:22:08 PM
The 1970 and 1971 CV's had flake like pictures below .. Thin flake strip running up to bow.
1972 and later had flake running to bow and bow was flake. All were color of flake and white. Latter models might have been listed as "Sand" for the white color, but were very close to same.
The 1972 CV16 also came in gold, see quite a few CV16SS in gold but not many outboards in gold.
Ray's got a gold one ..
Post by: Hyperacme on October 22, 2018, 02:26:01 PM
Would be very cool if yours was gold !
Post by: wpstarling on October 23, 2018, 06:32:27 AM
The last 2 pictures are of what I think could be the original color(s). You can see behind the white is a goldish color but behind the red and blue is the orange color. Think I'll have to sand them down to truly figure it out.
Also closely inspected the transom area and there's definitely no numbers there. Will have to remove the piece of wood a PO placed under dash for support to check if there's any tag glassed in under there.
Bill
Post by: rayar3 on October 23, 2018, 07:19:00 AM
Post by: Hyperacme on October 23, 2018, 09:57:59 AM
Also might have been painted blue and gold at one time … YUCK !
Apricot's a cool color .. Bryon has / had a red CV with bad flake, so he tinted some clear with red and it came out pretty good.
Saved doing an entire re-paint or flake/gel.
Don't think your has HIN in stern.
Ray .. Could have been pallet wood for stringers, but where did they get the wood for transom ? … LOL
All CV16SS would have had grounding anodes, did even early CV16's have them ?
Post by: wpstarling on October 30, 2018, 02:56:41 PM
Post by: Hyperacme on October 30, 2018, 03:55:00 PM
I think ...
Did you get the old one out of trim piece ?
I'll ask Ray ...
Post by: wpstarling on October 30, 2018, 03:57:00 PM
Post by: Hyperacme on October 30, 2018, 04:06:50 PM
Pretty sure original.
Ray looking at his.
Post by: wpstarling on October 30, 2018, 04:13:05 PM
Tried to take a picture but I couldn't get it. Did you replace the studs or switch to bolts?
Post by: Hyperacme on October 30, 2018, 04:39:02 PM
Post by: rayar3 on October 30, 2018, 04:40:37 PM
Post by: Hyperacme on October 30, 2018, 05:39:15 PM
I would find a SS bolt about the same length, cut head off and use some red loctite if threads are intact or JB weld stud in if threads are bad.
Post by: wpstarling on October 30, 2018, 05:42:24 PM
Post by: Hyperacme on October 30, 2018, 06:10:34 PM
If it ain't broken .. don't fix it !
Post by: Plugcheck on October 30, 2018, 07:18:03 PM
Post by: Hyperacme on October 30, 2018, 07:38:33 PM
LOL …
Post by: 84carlson on October 30, 2018, 07:45:48 PM
Joe
Post by: wpstarling on October 30, 2018, 07:59:40 PM
Joe I was planning on keeping it but we'll see if that stands in a few months. I'll let you know if I decide to let it go.
Bill
Post by: wpstarling on November 19, 2018, 07:17:19 AM
Post by: Plugcheck on November 19, 2018, 07:42:59 AM
Post by: wpstarling on November 19, 2018, 07:46:21 AM
Post by: thedeuceman on November 19, 2018, 09:28:13 AM
So if you can’t find somebody there to weld it just let us kno.
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Post by: wpstarling on November 19, 2018, 09:55:21 AM
Post by: Plugcheck on November 19, 2018, 09:59:24 AM
I wonder if it could be glued back together to sandcast a new piece?
Post by: Hyperacme on November 19, 2018, 11:05:24 AM
Aluminum Repair
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2907.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2907.0)
Post by: thedeuceman on November 19, 2018, 11:25:34 AM
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Post by: wpstarling on November 20, 2018, 07:03:01 AM
You guys know if Shawn has that extra starboard one, or anywhere else I could find it. I tried eBay with no luck.
Post by: Hyperacme on November 20, 2018, 10:02:58 AM
project # 842 .. 1973 glastron CV-16 - $175 (lhc)
https://mohave.craigslist.org/boa/d/projectglastron-cv-16/6744712772.html (https://mohave.craigslist.org/boa/d/projectglastron-cv-16/6744712772.html)
Check …
American Runabouts
https://www.facebook.com/bootrestauration/?hc_ref=ARREuWvgcp6L5-2Yg81f6fe9u6E8rwTRgwPSPfOF66XCPWJMJ2bnaR2gCjevXiQWBfo&fref=nf (https://www.facebook.com/bootrestauration/?hc_ref=ARREuWvgcp6L5-2Yg81f6fe9u6E8rwTRgwPSPfOF66XCPWJMJ2bnaR2gCjevXiQWBfo&fref=nf)
There eBay store ...
http://www.ebay.com/usr/american_runabouts?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 (http://www.ebay.com/usr/american_runabouts?_trksid=p2047675.l2559)
Post by: thedeuceman on November 20, 2018, 11:32:24 AM
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Post by: Hyperacme on November 20, 2018, 11:36:44 AM
Post by: thedeuceman on November 20, 2018, 12:32:08 PM
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Post by: Hyperacme on November 20, 2018, 02:50:07 PM
Post by: rayar3 on November 20, 2018, 08:19:28 PM
I’m just about to head out flying for a while, but I’ll check and see what I have. In the middle of completely rebuilding a CVX-17 bowcap that came to me in 4 pieces so I have to check on how that’s coming at the shop, too. The 17/metric bowcap was different than the other CVX caps so a repair was a must.
Post by: thedeuceman on November 20, 2018, 10:42:21 PM
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Post by: wpstarling on June 17, 2019, 06:52:31 PM
Will be looking into it. Hopefully it's an easy fix.
I've still got to put the windshield on and hook up the fuel gauge and bilge pump.
What you guys think? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190617/8b3e1f52b0f628c42d83d85e5d11b90b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190617/b025ea4cbcc1de602f82f748278375e3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190617/70f14ba7a40b350ae39e5ec024dc59ad.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190617/5120eae8d186c8a2e3fa584b0d0ccc3c.jpg)
Post by: dorelse on June 17, 2019, 07:58:55 PM
Post by: Hyperacme on June 17, 2019, 08:04:22 PM
Ya forgot the swoosh .. LOL
Post by: Jason on June 18, 2019, 12:23:45 PM
Post by: wpstarling on June 24, 2020, 11:08:16 AM
I'm going to clean the fuel residue today and try to run the engine for a few minutes to see if it's still leaking but I did have 2 questions. 1) is it ok to run the engine on the hose for 10-15 minutes to get it warm? I have the 'earmuffs' but didn't know if those were good for longer than a few minutes. 2) can i leave the carb cover off while running it so I can get a better look at what could be leaking if there's still a leak?
Thanks! Hoping this is it for the engine. Only thing after this is to replace the fuel sender and the boat will be 100% functional finally!
Post by: Hyperacme on June 24, 2020, 11:33:51 AM
I've run mine on hose / muff's for more then ten min.
I think you just don't want to rev motor or hold it at higher throttle settings on hose.
Are you referring to air intake / baffle box mounted to carbs ?
If so you should be OK .. again just don't rev motor or hold at high rpm's.
Post by: wpstarling on June 24, 2020, 01:23:43 PM
I will leave it at lower RPM's just need it to run and see if it leaks after a few minutes. Yes I am referring to the baffle box. I'm used to older motorcycles where taking the airbox off causes lean issues and I definitely don't want that!
I'll give it a shot.
Post by: Hyperacme on June 24, 2020, 02:38:06 PM
Yep .. Ya get a lean condition with out box. But just idling on hose for a few min. shouldn't hurt.
There's a good old 3 / V4 cylinder OMC Facebook group that could answer all your questions.
OMC 3cyl and v4 engines ..
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1545817415730476/
Post by: wpstarling on June 24, 2020, 02:53:21 PM
I also at some point need to replace the prop, it's an old aluminum and is pretty beat up. I'm not looking for absolute top speed but something that will be good for tubing/wakeboard/slalom and just cruising. Any suggestions?
Post by: Hyperacme on June 24, 2020, 03:11:53 PM
Maybe less pitch if pulling ski / tubes.
Post by: David CVX-16 on June 24, 2020, 09:49:27 PM
Post by: wpstarling on June 25, 2020, 06:49:40 AM
If you want hole shot, do not get a Raker. One of my Rakers was purchased from someone who had difficulty getting up on plane. Rakers are for speed - high rake and little blade area. Look into what OMC has available for general all around use - Viper, SST, etc.
Thanks David. I'll take a look at them. I like fast but I just know my family and the way I use the boat, hole shot is more important than all out speed. Maybe once my boys are older I can go all out ;D
Post by: wpstarling on June 29, 2020, 09:59:40 AM
I don't know any of the details about plastic bowls, but have heard of people replacing them, because of problems.
Yep .. Ya get a lean condition with out box. But just idling on hose for a few min. shouldn't hurt.
There's a good old 3 / V4 cylinder OMC Facebook group that could answer all your questions.
OMC 3cyl and v4 engines ..
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1545817415730476/
So the 'fix' for the warped plastic bowls is to sand them smooth. So i took the bowls off, grabbed some 800 grit sand paper, some water, and my spark plug gap tool and proceeded to check the bowls. When i started with them i could easily slide the .004" metal between my glass table and the carb bowl in multiple areas. After sanding for a few minutes I no longer could do so. I then put the bowls back on and started it up and nothing leaked! However, I took the boat out after church yesterday and it ran pretty good for a while but had some hesitation in the mid-range RPM's until about 4k or so then it flew. Went to put the boat on the trailer and tilted the motor up and....leaking, again. After everything I'm seriously considering selling this motor and getting a different one. There are 2 90hp's that look decent in pictures (still have to see them in person) but I feel that might not be enough HP. What are the thoughts on that? Ideally I'd love to have a 115 or more but beggars can't be choosers ;D
Post by: 74 Carlson the II on June 29, 2020, 10:21:41 AM
Post by: wpstarling on June 29, 2020, 10:26:28 AM
Almost all carbed outboards will leak gas when you tilt them up. Take a carb that is not on the motor, fill it with fuel and tilt it in the same direction as tilting the motor up for trailering and it will leak.
Yes i agree with that, but the amount that leaks is what concerns me. I'm not talking a little bit. It's enough that the shaft of the motor, which is white, is now greenish/grey. The whole thing. Just seems like it's leaking more than it should be, not to mention the mess it makes!
I honestly didn't check before tilting it if it was leaking so some of that fuel could have been there before i tilted it. i just didn't notice it until tilting since it started pouring out on my boat and then the shaft/mid-section once I tilted back down. Going all out the motor was fine but leaking fuel already caught fire once and i really don't want that with my family on the boat in the middle of a lake or river.
Post by: Hyperacme on June 29, 2020, 01:24:07 PM
I would run motor a few times on muff, a few hot / cold cycles to see if that causes carb bowls to leak.
Around 1984 OMC started rating HP at the prop, before that they rated at power head.
So 130 / 140 HP motors became 115 HP and 115 HP became 90 HP.
Both Merc & OMC did this around the mid 80's.