Author Topic: I found the culprit.  (Read 5538 times)

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Offline still_fishin

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I found the culprit.
« on: August 24, 2014, 01:03:22 PM »
I striped the top off the motor out of my Intimidator this weekend and found the head gasket failed just below the spark plug hole in the #1 cylinder.  There was a little bit of surface rust in the cylinder wall that I already cleaned up, leaving some pitting.  I'm on the fence about what I'm going to do about it; bore/hone/basic rebuild,  or run it the way it is.  I did notice the pistons are already stamped 030, and there really are no cross hash marks in the cylinders if that is anything to worry about.

Another thing I noticed on the head was the area between the water jacket and the cylinder seems to be rusted quit thin under the spark plug hole. I'm not comfortable pitting these heads back on.  The area on the #1 cylinder where the gasket rests is only about half there.  This is also where the gasket failed causing all the water in the oil issues. 

I've spoken with a few of you previously about the pitting in the cylinder but thought I would fill the rest of you in. 




« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 02:09:05 PM by still_fishin »
'80 Intimidator
'85 CV23

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 03:44:27 PM »
Tim the cylinder I wouldnt worry about too much just clean it up with a hone You can get them at a parts store

Here are some heads is you want to put different one on they sound like they are rebuilt.  That or switch over to Vortec heads and intake.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/pts/4578115500.html

Vortec
http://stcloud.craigslist.org/pts/4578972870.html
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Full Resto complete
1976 CV-16 V8 Resto in progress
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2014, 04:12:00 PM »
Go with a different head, the margin width is too thin.  Might be able to save with planing, but your CR will increase by doing so.  Hone just enough to clean up corroded area. Old rings will not like a new cross hatch pattern.  A good set of used heads, head and intake gaskets, and clean up the gym need wall.  You could be back on the water fairly cheap.  The vortec  heads are worth looking into, but by the time you get them right, change the intake and valve covers, you will be spending quite a bit more.  Depends on the source of the heads really. 
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline Jason

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2014, 08:26:22 PM »
yep, throw in some Vortecs.

www.car-part.com
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline still_fishin

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 04:23:07 AM »
I'm trying to do this as cheap as possible for now.  I'm going to try and find a direct replacement set of heads.  There is no rush right now, I really wasn't planning on boating the rest of the year anyways.
'80 Intimidator
'85 CV23

Offline Jerry

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 05:33:00 AM »
Tim, I have a couple sets on the shelf. You can have one set if you want to come to Bloomington and get them.
'72 Glastron GT160 Sport - Okie-Dokie
'63 Winner - Grandpa's Fisn-Bote
'63 Glasspar SeaFair Sunliner - Mischief Maker

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2014, 11:44:31 AM »
 "clean up the gym need wall".    That was supposed to say clean up the cylinder wall, dang autocorrect!    I have a set from my OMC Cobra that I swapped out for Vortecs, I will take a look at them if your interested.

Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline OleRed

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2014, 05:53:47 PM »
Tim, the vortec heads are a good choice if you can run across some with 64cc chambers, thats the same as most of the mercruiser heads now days, earlier models have 58cc chambers, those are the high compression heads, so be sure if you go with the vortec's they have 64cc chambers, many
of the vortecs are 76cc chambers, so do your home work on the vortecs.  I got a set of aluminum
heads with 2.02 stainless steel Manley valves, 64cc chambers, 200cc raised runners, screw in studs and guide plates, I have a little over $700 in them, they are bolted on a motor but never been started, 45lbs lighter than original heads, and they look good :)
1980 23ft Scimitar

Offline Jason

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2014, 09:00:49 PM »
Red, do you know how to tell what vortec heads are what by looking at them as far as size goes? Or are there part numbers on the heads?
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline OleRed

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2014, 09:18:36 PM »
yes, there are casting numbers on the heads that identify them, 

http://www.chevymania.com/tech/vortec.htm
1980 23ft Scimitar

Offline still_fishin

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2014, 06:58:24 PM »
I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet.  Thanks for the help and the offers.  I'm really in no rush either. 
'80 Intimidator
'85 CV23

Offline still_fishin

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2014, 07:04:24 PM »
Does anyone have any thoughts on these? http://rmn.craigslist.org/pts/4635458598.html
'80 Intimidator
'85 CV23

Offline 75starflight

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2014, 09:32:36 PM »
Those are late 80s early 90s heads not vortecs, pass on them. Vortec head castings are easy to identify by the saw tooth markings on the end of the head triple or single. Last three digits of castings are 906 and 062.
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline Terry_Curran

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2014, 05:30:51 AM »
I did a search on the casting number and found this:

"Those heads are total junk and not worth $200. Those are probably some of the worst heads for a performance application made.

All Vortec heads have a heart shape combustion chamber and only have 4 holes per head on the intake side.

'193 castings came on 305 and 350 from '87 to '95"

They also have raised port locations

Terry

Offline still_fishin

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2014, 06:32:16 AM »
Thanks for the info. 
'80 Intimidator
'85 CV23

Offline ems

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2014, 07:09:15 AM »
I have a couple 350s layin around ill that I was gunna rebuild let me look later today I may be able to help ya on them heads, I might even have fresh gaskets


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1972 glastron cv-16 ss Family owned since 1971
2000 gmc savana hi-top (Land Yacht)
1993 lexus SC300 5spd (JZ JZ)

Offline still_fishin

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2014, 10:01:22 AM »
After weighing my options;  vortec heads and corresponding intake; reuse my heads and new gaskets, crate motor, I decided after talking with a few people to throw new gaskets at it and wait for it to fail again. I figure buy the time I put vortec heads on it i would have 6 it 7 hundred into it and I still have a wore out short block with scoring and pitting in the cylinders.  I'm going to save that money for a crate motor when this one fails.  383's and 406's sound real nice, just not right now.

So yesterday I put the top of my motor back together with a set of had gaskets with a slightly smaller diameter to give it more surface area for the sealing ring  and test ran it.  I don't know if it is possible or if it is just in my head but this boat sounds a little different. I can't explain the sound,  it's just different.   Something else I noted was when i was setting the idle anything below 750 and the engine would surge down to 550 and back up over and over till it killed. I set the idle around 800 or 850 to avoid the surging.  I didn't do a compression test yet but I'm assuming the surging a result of this loss.  One thing to note,  last year before the head gasket issues this engine would idle down to 600 or so and stay running. Hopefully I'll get out again this year to give if a true test. 

Hey Jeff, I'm going to need that prop back :D

'80 Intimidator
'85 CV23

Offline 75starflight

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2014, 10:43:14 AM »
Love the pic Tim! She is so cute!
Glad you got the Timmi running again.
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: I found the culprit.
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2014, 01:24:53 PM »
     I would imagine the engine sounds different since a cylinders pressure is not being vented off into the cooling jackets.   As for the idle  surge issue, I would suspect a vacume leak.   A can of carb cleaner is handy to track down this problem.   The next item I would look at is the ignition system.  It possible both issues could be ignition related.   
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude