Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: UKMike on July 04, 2018, 12:36:05 PM
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Hi all,
I went out the other day when it was nice and calm and hot hot hot, I was boing about 50mph on a plane and I caught a rouge wave which hit my starboard side, bang it went... Anyway I got back to the dock later that day and I drove the boat up into the trailer which was difficult as the water was at low tide and when I got to cleaning the boat I could see a long split 4 feet long in the hull. After further investigation I can see that it's not just Gel coat fracture as I can see a split in the glass. It runs parallel with one of the protruding lines on V shaped the hull. Does anyone know how the hulls are built and if this is a normal place for fractures?
Also, any advice on how I can deal with this?
One thing I should add is that it may have been caused by the new trailer I purchased as it has 2 sets of rear rollers at the rear on each side but the old trailer had a platform to support the weight of the engine on the trailer, the new trailer doesn't have this and when I drive the boat up onto the trailer the boat does pivot on the rollers at the point on where I have the split and it is exactly running in the centre of the rollers...
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Like always..... it’s a lot easier to post pictures
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I'm having a tough time visualizing the issue. Good clear pictures are needed to help diagnose the problem. Sounds maybe like a cracked transom?
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Sadly I don't have any photos currently and the boat is 100 miles away. its a split on the first long runner from the keel, it starts about 6 inches from the transom and runs along the length of the boat for 4 feet, from the stern to the bow direction, it runs approx. 2 between the first runner and the keel. Do you know of any links where I can see a hull of a CVX16 upside down and I can show you exactly where it is.
Thanks again for the replys :)
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Look here for some CVX / Metric hull pictures …
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7551.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7551.0)
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Thanks Gregg,
Hope all is well?
I'll take a look now.
Mike
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OK this is an idea of where the split is and I hope no one minds me using someone else's photo to show this...
I have added the red line to show where it runs.
Mike
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I doubt Doug will mind. Never seen a hull crack along a strake, that is generally a very solid area. Maybe a delamination? I doubt an easy repair is possible, probably involve stringer and floor work. Is it just a crack or a split? Is it taking on water?
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I put a new battery unit in last year with a much heavier battery and that sits right about the area of the split, I call it a split as there is approx. a 1mm gap at the worst point and it feathers off to nothing, I don't think it's taking on water as the inside of the boat was dry but I think the boat has had glass work previously on the inside as there is no wood at all in the boat as one would expect, I have a feeling work was done before I bought the boat 6 years ago and it looks like they removed the flooring and re-glassed the whole inside of the boat, or at least where the flooring should be. It's hard to tell unless I tear out the carpet, but I say this as the carpet seems to show depressions where the strakes are.
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I'll get some photos this coming weekend to show you what I see, I'm worried this could be a real risk and lead to structural failure if I push the boat to the limit or hit another bow breaker. But I'd have more concern if the split was across the keel, making the boat more likely to split in half on hard impact...
It may just be cosmetic but I can't take the chance and I'm looking at buying a new Tilt/Trim unit and lower unit, so around $3000 and I don't want to do that if the hull is not fixable....
Mike
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For $3000 you might just get another CVX. Plenty have been rebuilt with composite materials, but never heard of just eliminating the wood. The CVX hulls require the stringers and floor components to achieve the strength required.
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You can't buy them over here in the UK, they are like gold dust, hence the cost of the parts!
I guess I need to strip out the carpet and take a look to see what's there... If no wood has been used then maybe that's why I have the split. It seems like it has 2 skins and that would explain no wood being used, no water ingress but a split in the hull.
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I have seen hull damage caused by hitting an underwater obstacle, but never from flexing. If there are no stringers to support the hull, then I could see a stress crack forming. Given that Glastrons are hard to come by over there, seems to establish you want to repair your craft. Do you have a place to do the repairs over the winter? The reason I ask is this, could you get by with a simple repair and enjoy your boat the rest of the short season? (Maybe taking it a bit easier?) Then complete the major repairs during off season.
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Hmmm was going to try all seacast to replace bad wood on my 86 cvx18 but having second thoughts now. The videos show them pouring in where the wood was removed. Sure would be great to hear from someone that has done that with a glastron and how it worked out. Looking forward to hearing more about your investigation on your 16'.
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What kind of trailer do you have under it?
Bunk or roller.
A member over here split his hull open long crack from his trailer and roller positions.
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Hi all,
The new trailer is a roller trailer, the old trailer was a bunk so with the weight of the engine at the stern on 4 rollers each side I need to question if this is partly the cause. It just so happens that the split is right in the middle of the rollers and that cant be a coincidence, and when I drive the boat up onto the trailer at low tide the angle means there is a lot of pressure on that area until all 4 rollers are in contact, as the rollers pivot.
If I can repair it for the rest of the season it would be really helpful, I purchased a west systems fiberglass kit but haven't yet used it as wanted your thoughts first. If I do deal with this over the winter (which I can do) I can imagine I will need to strip the whole boat down, remove the top half, turn upside down and possible cut out a patch of glass, I'm not sure the best way to deal with this so any suggestions are really appreciated. But don't tell me to throw my baby away :) I love her :)
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So it's about here ...
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Hi Gregg,
Yes exactly but on the other side.
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Please see the red line where it shows the line of the crack/split, it is between the rollers. Sorry but I don't have a better photo until the coming weekend.
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You need to zoom in to see the red line :)
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And to add to this, the reasoning behind me spending $ thousands in keeping and maintaining my beautiful Glastron CVX 16 is that my uncle, many years ago was the president of a US Corp (DEE Corp)and he loved Glastron boats, he exported them to Spain to his villa for private use and I remember my first ever holiday there (4 years old), where he took us out on his new super sport Glastron Carlson. I will never forget that first experience of these wonderful American pieces of art, burgundy flec red with white leather seats, sexy.....
And it's my responsibility to share that experience to others, as well as remembering it myself at every opportunity :)
Can't quite afford the GT series but hey ho.
Mike.
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That's a lot of motor for an old stringer / transom or one that hasn't been rebuilt better then original.
Looks like a plate on transom ?
Crack must be about where floor joins hull or just below it …
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Great pics Gregg,
I have put another red line on exactly where the split is, and after seeing those pics I now feel that the wood floor is in the boat, it is flat when you walk on the carpet in the centre, and the fact that the carpet is slightly indented where the strakes are suggests that it is as should be!
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And yeah, hell of a motor, 1/8 marine grade stainless steel plate, transom already rebuilt and reinforced, with additional buoyancy compartments.
I've nearly totally rebuilt the motor with NOS parts, with help from a Senior Merc Tech Marine from Florida, so she really does perform like a rebuilt Saturn rocket :)
I do need to break her down again and replace the lower exhaust seal as on the last rebuild I bought a aftermarket replacement. Bad mistake as it's a hell of a lot of work to replace again.
Mike
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Thanks again for the pics Gregg, I can now confirm that the boat must have a similar floor as I do have the sunken pocket at the back to allow the water to be released from the drain plug, that's where my bilge pump is. The buoyancy tanks are on the outer side of the transom supports.
So I need to strip out the carpet and seats including the rear seats, take some photos and post here for expert advice.
Thanks again all, I totally respect all your help, advice and guidance. Respect!!
Mike
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Check this out for a rebuild of a CVX16 …
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6642 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6642)
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WOW thanks Gregg, that's really helpful, if you have any other links like that I'd really appreciate them. I'm thinking now maybe I should strip everything out and renew. I rebuilt both the front seats last year, the seats in the boat were the originals and even had the original suppliers details on them, I totally duplicated them but I laminated 3 layers of 1/4 ply with plenty of glue to get the curves just right.
I have a question, on those photos I didn't see any wooden cross members to support the floor, am I right in assuming cross members aren't needed? I always worry about putting additional things in as I worry that this may make the boat unstable or may well create fracture points where they wouldn't normally be.
Also, with the buoyancy foam, is it possible to put too much in? Is there a set amount that should be used? I have 4 buoyancy areas, 2 either side of the fuel tank at the mid section under the front vent and 2 at the rear quarters either side and inline with the splash well.
Do you know if it is still possible to purchase the aluminium and rubber rub rails or is another solution advisable?
Another question is that does the fuel tank need an additional earth even if the fuel gauge is earthed, I read this somewhere and I'm not sure if it is required or even sensible to do as if the earth ever became live for whatever reason I can imagine it wouldn't end well.
After seeing that string of photos I don't feel so bad about doing the work now and although it would take me all winter and a few thousand $ I can imagine it to be worth while as the boat would no doubt last for another 15 years at least.
I'd appreciate your thoughts...
Mike
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I have a question, on those photos I didn't see any wooden cross members to support the floor, am I right in assuming cross members aren't needed? I always worry about putting additional things in as I worry that this may make the boat unstable or may well create fracture points where they wouldn't normally be.
Should be a bulkhead at the bilge area, and possibly one near your feet. When the floor is is place, it ties everything together.
Also, with the buoyancy foam, is it possible to put too much in? Is there a set amount that should be used? I have 4 buoyancy areas, 2 either side of the fuel tank at the mid section under the front vent and 2 at the rear quarters either side and inline with the splash well.
I doubt there is a condition of too much foam, there just isn't space to add too much. Cost is one reason, another is how much displacement you require. Figure roughly 50 lbs lift per cubic foot of foam. Just insure enough displacement for the gross weight of craft and you'll be fine.
Do you know if it is still possible to purchase the aluminium and rubber rub rails or is another solution advisable?
Yes, new rub rail is available in both one and two peice models.
Another question is that does the fuel tank need an additional earth even if the fuel gauge is earthed, I read this somewhere and I'm not sure if it is required or even sensible to do as if the earth ever became live for whatever reason I can imagine it wouldn't end well.
We call that grounding, but for argument, the fuel filler hose has a ground wire, otherwise the filler needs a ground. This allows the pump to complete a "drain" for static charge. Ever wonder why stations make you pump fuel in containers on the ground rather than sitting in a vehicle? You could tie battery negative to the tank, but it's not required here to do so.
After seeing that string of photos I don't feel so bad about doing the work now and although it would take me all winter and a few thousand $ I can imagine it to be worth while as the boat would no doubt last for another 15 years at least.
That is the core spirit of a Glastron enthusiast right there!
I'd appreciate your thoughts...
Mike
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Thanks Plugcheck, as always a fountain on knowledge and willing to share.
Much respected and appreciated! :)
Mike.
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OK so here goes....
Went down to the boat today and because of the location of the split I have needed to jack the boat up on the trailer in order to get fairly decent pics, these are all taken with me laying under the boat with a go pro. I will post the first set of pics which are where I have not yet touched the split. Then I will post the pics of where I have attacked it with a dremel, also seen in the photos, I have ground out the glass until there seem to either be no more split or at least a hair line fracture in the glass left, the depth has gone no more than 2mm from the surface of the gel coat.
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next set of first pics
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Nest
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After grinding out the dead glass as best as possible.
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More, but again no water noticeable in the boat at all and now bilge water either.
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More
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Any thoughts Gregg or anyone?
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Gel is cracked, fiberglass under is not cracked.
No water is getting into boat / bilge …
Patch gel and see what happens after use.
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OK thanks, I purchased the west system Epoxy and after grinding out today I used the fine white glass fibres with the epoxy and hardener, it's used for bonding but the shop told me it would be perfect for this repair, I did some research and that seems to be true. the cracks are now filled and I need to sand them down with P80 and then with P1200 until I can get just below the Gel coat.
I'm no expert on this and to me if you look at those pics it looks like this has been an issue before and has been filled with something. I say this as there seems to be a white material in the deeper cracks that still remain, now this may well be salt as the boat is used in salt water and it has salt all over the hull, especially in places where the old Bunk trailer runs used to sit, you can see the white salt growth in those areas. I tested them today also and the white areas do clean of and they are salt.
But to me it looks like this has had work done previously along the strake, can anyone else please have a look and say what you think?
The floor is wood but is covered in glass, so I was mistaken, never really taken that much of a look, the photos you showed me now make much more sense as to the setup of the CVX16's so thanks again Gregg. :)
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Does anyone know how thick the glass on the hull should be if it's all original?
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Kinda depends on the area. On my Timi, strip down the transom, and the glass is roughly 1/8", transition areas around hull to transom, and around strakes is 1/4". I've cut up a number of boats for disposal(never a Glastron) and found the same. When a Glastron hull is torn down, the hull is actually quite flimsy. When you get cracks in the gel coat, it indicates that flexing or stress has occurred. I doubt it's possible to make it all so rigid that cracks never happen, so we repair and restore as issues arise. Since your cracking is gel coat layer, I'd do just what you are doing, grind out, fill, finish, then keep an eye on the areas. That is quite a powerplant on your 16, so you are going to put your hull under stresses it wasn't designed for. I'm all for it, but the damage goes with the forces the craft is seeing now. Curious to know what top speed you have seen.
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Hi Plugcheck,
Thanks for the response, really appreciate it. I still question if this is just Gel fracture, if you look at the picks after using the grinder there are still deeper cracks into the glass, and they do seem to have been filled previously, if you zoom into the pics you will see what I mean, and that to me is worrying, either way I will do as suggested and keep an eye on things, I'll probably remove the larger battery and put the original one back where it was as currently I have 2 heavy battery's within the area of the splits worst area..
I know the transom was enforced a few years ago when this motor was put on the boat and since I have had it I've all about replaced everything on the engine, except the lower end, pistons, rings, heads and associated parts, oh and I have rebuilt the carbs not replaced and the engine is sweet, still using the oil injection rather than premix. She goes like a rocket, up on a plane within 3 seconds of hitting the throttle. I've only ever managed to hit 62MPH on a clear day when the water is calm, don't forget mine is used only at Sea. This was on around 3/4 throttle at around 3200 rpm if I remember correctly and even then I needed to back off as I could see the horizon moving from side to side by approx. 1 meter each side of the bow and to be honest I nearly flooded the boat from inside!! You only need to hit a wave of take a gust of wind at that speed with that much power behind you and you up and over, and this was when I used to have one of the widow maker steering arms before they improved the strength....
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http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7551.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7551.0)
If you look thru this build, you can see boat was redesigned and built for a larger motor.
If your is original … That's 30 year old wood and glass.
If rebuilt, you don't know how much was rebuilt … OR how well it was done …
Fix gel and keep an eye on hull ...
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Thanks again and the guy that sold it to me was the owner from new, he did say that he had some work done on it and it cost him lots, and he said he had it repainted as original, and that to me means all cracks and fractures filled and repaired. The hull has the serial number still visible and if I remember correctly it's a 1982 so 30+ years old, working in sea water of the UK waters is a tough time for any boat, especially a performance boat.
I wouldn't trust any other boat that a Glastron to keep me safe out there, I really wouldn't, they were and are the cream of US boat manufacturing in my view and well in front of their time. performance, performance, performance.
Love my boat :)
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It must have had a 115 HP Merc on it when new ?
You can see the cut out for the old style T&T in splash well.
Weight would be about 60 to 70 lbs. more then 115 hp Merc , then add in weight of oil injection tank and extra battery.
Some times people say "New Floor" and it just a sheet of plywood laid over old rotted floor, Or transom fixed and it's just a plate over old rotted transom.
Take it easy and keep an eye on hull ..
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Cheers Gregg, you're a Glastron god!
Still love your boat more than mine, yours is just so clean and perfected, I'm jealous.... 8)
Mike
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" Still love your boat more than mine, yours is just so clean and perfected, I'm jealous. "
Ha Ha … To bad it sinking … :-[
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Not sinking, just tears of love and wanting more attention :) if that's at all possible!!!!! 8)
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It's something simple I'm sure, back to basics.. put her in the water and see if you can see where the leak is, then deal with... You don't have the worries I have for sure..
You can resolve it Gregg!!!!!!!!
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Not for nothing and late to the party, but the CVX-16 has a very thin hull in my opinion. Compound that with running it on the ocean, any weak spots will come to light. If the floor has been replaced, it’s also easy to accidentally grind the hull too thin in spots, especially near the strakes. (Ask me how I know...oops).
The 16 under the floor was very noticeably thinner than my 18 was under the floor, but those are the only Glastrons I have to compare. A Regal that I bought to flip in comparison had a hull that I could probably have dropped off a building without damage, lol. With ocean running, thicker will be good until the point that the strength leads to unforeseen weaknesses in other areas. It’s a balancing act.
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Rayar - I have e compared my regal to my glastron there is about 10x as much glass and resin very solid but probably why basically the same bout weighs so much more!
Uk Mike where in the uk are you? How solid is your floor etc? I’m guessing yours is an import as opposed to a uk built roger clark? The reason I ask is last year my stringers caused a lot of head scarring as I have two I like your one.. anyway we thought they had been changed but I found a guy who built them at roger clark on another forum and he confirmed they were built that way he may have said to enable a ski locker but I might be making that up. Anyway moral of the story is that the two stringers are either side of where the crack is so would not have cracked with them. As I am (slowly) doing a whole floor rebuild I think I am going to put the central one the us spec has so I will h e three for extra strength ... can’t hurt!
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Hi Pyro,
Sorry only just seen your response.
I'm in the south, just 45 miles south of London and yes it's a US built boat by the serial number and I have an idea it has had the floor rebuilt as looking at the repair work that's been doing it does look like the crack has been repaired previously. I think this year I will be stripping her out totally and having the whole boat redone with a new floor, an extra layer of glass and resin put down inside and any external cracks addressed before a re-spray and gel coat. I've just bought a new lower unit, lots of parts for the motor and even thinking about rebuilding the engine with over bore +25.
Do you have any photos of the floor that should be in the US built CVX16's as I want to make sure that if I do the rebuild I only need to do it once. I've never done a floor before but am pretty sensible when it comes to these things so and advise would be really appreciated. All the guys and gals on here have been great and have really helped know my boat inside out and I never want to say good bye to her so money is no object.
Best
Mike.