Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: 17ireid on August 29, 2016, 10:45:51 AM
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Hi everyone,
I'm Isaiah and I'm restoring a 1980 CVX-16, and decided to make a thread of it. I will be restoring this boat throughout the year in a high school composite class and hopefully keep you updated and get some help along the way. I bought this boat when I was a Freshman in high school, because I thought they were the coolest thing after seeing one for sale by the side of the road. Anyway I thought all it needs is a cheap paint job and I'm on the water. But, silly me I forgot the old adage (Bail.Out.Another.Thousand) Anyway 4 years (senior in high school), 3 failed paint jobs, and a lot of learning from your mistakes later, I have a completely gutted boat and a new improved plan (also a job so no more being cheap). This boat was/is a basket case and I understand they arent worth much, but hey it's fun, i'm learning, and thats worth a lot to me.
The boat will be restored to factory for the most part with new:
-floor/stringers/transom
-gelcoat (metalflake laser blue, with blue)
-Interior
-Engine (and all that jazz)
-non-original dash and electronics, because I accidentally messed up my plastic switch plate and stuff
-also planning on rechroming a bunch of bits
-possibly rub rail
Anyway sorry for the long intro, heres where I am. Stripping a bunch of rustoleum I slathered on there. Sorry about how filthy it is it's been under that tarp all summer, hopefully these photos will show up.
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Some more pictures for y'all:
1. As I got it
2. After painting it (the third time) didn't actually look to bad but it probably would have fell apart and sunk XD
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Perfect!
Needless to say, we all learned along the way. Sounds like a GREAT high school project. And you are correct, they are . . . "the coolest thing". :)
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" This boat was/is a basket case and I understand they arent worth much, but hey it's fun, i'm learning, and thats worth a lot to me. "
True !
BUT ... Once done every one at the launch will comment on how cool your boat is, or how they learned to ski behind one just like it, or how there Dad had one just like it, or etc. etc.
Old Glastron / Carlson's just look cool ... No one at the launch will comment on how cool your new $80,000 ski boat is ...
I have about $8000 into mine, and worth every penny !
Try to find a newer boat that looks this cool for that price ...
There are many CVX16 rebuild threads on here and CGOA.
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=34&sid=0e69a19db4fce207b7fc0756606a0e35 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=34&sid=0e69a19db4fce207b7fc0756606a0e35)
Can you wet sand and compound your flake ? You might be surprised how it can shine up with some sanding/compounding/waxing.
Might not look perfect, but could look very good ... Local shop could patch large gouges.
Will cost you about $100 for supply's to try it ...
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Exactly! They aren't a good choice for trying to flip a profit but they certainly look like a million bucks! The flake sadly is very far gone, that was the first thing I tried. The flake is poking through the clear, as well as a significant amount of dings, repairs, uneven fading from a cover. I'm looking forward to the re-gelcoat though, I've heard its a ton of work but I'm eager to give it a "shot" :P
For now I'm still scraping, mostly done though. Probably going to wait to get all the stylistic nooks and crannies on the hull when I flip/split it (since I also need to sand off the bottom paint. It's really starting to clean up after a wash with scotch-brite pad and acetone.
Also here is the condition of the metal flake. The hole behind the vent is where a previous owner put a electric lifting car radio antenna and the other mark in front was the first attempt to mount it XD
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I know it's been awhile but not much has happened as I'm waiting to bring it into the shop and start the rebuild (probably in January), but today I got bored and decided to do some work on it. As of now it's almost completely stripped of paint and the real work can begin. Today was a big milestone as I separated the cap from the hull. Separating the transom from the cap has been giving me a hassle for some time now but today I was determined. A hatchet head and a hammer turned out to be very effective by wedging the head between the fiberglass. Now that the boat is split (haven't removed it yet) lm worried about the hull and cap warping? If so what should I do? I hope bringing this thread back after so long isn't an annoyance, I plan to start posting more regularly once the serious work in the shop begins.
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Isaiah, here are a couple of pics of the 1980 CVX-16 I restored last winter. It was pretty much the same basket case that you have. There is also a picture of the finished product. It is not factory, lets just say it is a resto-mod.
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Jee thats beautiful, hope mine can turn out that nice! That Etec must make it scoot along real nicely ;) Here's before and after splitting the deck.
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Rich's idea for supporting hull ..
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=6910.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=6910.0)
Bunch of CVX16 threads on CGOA's pages ...
Some missing pictures...
Try this one, still has pictures ...
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6642&sid=2040ef6ef8d1644cdb466e078bfab805 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6642&sid=2040ef6ef8d1644cdb466e078bfab805)
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Yes it does scoot right along, 71.4 mph on the gps. When you restore yours consider using not using any wood. You are young enough so that you want the boat to last for a long time. Ceramic transom pour, nidacore floor, and pvc board for stringers, seat pedestals, dash backing etc... are really good options. Just my opinion though........
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I'd like to learn more about the ceramic transom pour. Do you create a form like you would for concrete, mix, pour, and agitate any bubbles out? How is ceramic come into play? Ceramic like tile? How much does it weigh compared to solid plywood / glass sandwich? thanks..
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In my case I did not split the cap from the hull, I cut out the glass on the aft side of the transom as well as the top edge of the transom. I saved the aft portion to use as a template to replace it with glass after I dug out all of the rotten wood. I then replaced the aft glass but left the top edge of the transom off in order to have a place to pour the new transom in. I then made two triangular buttresses out of glass for extra strength. I cut slits on the inside/fore face of the transom and glassed the buttresses to the transom and the floor of the hull. The buttresses are hollow so when pouring the transom they also filled up at the same time essentially making the transom and the buttresses one solid piece. The transom pour came in one gallon cans with a container of MEK for each gallon. I mixed the MEK into the pour with a drill motor and a paint mixer. Poured it in a gallon at a time with ten minutes between gallons. It took 5 gallons to do my boat. They say it is actually lighter than wood of the same thickness. When it hardens it looks and feels like rock, so there is some ceramic ingredients in the pour. I then rebuilt the top of the transom with glass and then painted the boat and installed the motor etc.... this is the second boat that I have used this and can attest that it is incredibly strong and it will never ever rot.
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Dang thats fast! I'm hopefully going to get into low 60's, not a deal breaker if I don't though. I will have an Suzuki 115 EFI 2 stroke on the back and it should be a strong runner (once it starts running ::).
I am interested in the no wood option but haven't found any options I like yet, but I will look into those mentioned. Haven't heard of the ceramic core, is this the same as Seacast? However the glass on my transom is trash and there is no form to pour into. So far epoxy and wood is what I was thinking for stringers floor and transom. This boat will be treated with a lot of care and won't spend more than a weekend on the water so the wood will probably last awhile with proper application.
Right now heres the boat with front structures and floor mostly removed, need to get a cutting wheel for the grinder to get the edges. Lot of rot in the bow and near the back, stringer has nothing to it. Transom in surprisingly good shape, might as well do it all though!
I'm a little disappointed that the learning curve has been so steep, with all that I know now I could have gotten to the same point in 3 days rather than 3 years. Makes me want another one after I'm done :P
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Power washers are great.
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Seacast is one of the brands/names of transom pour.
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Keep digging in... I'm three years into my restoration. And love every minute of it. Hope to have it completed next spring.
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Hey,
So the boat is finally going into the shop right after the new year (after Christmas break). I'm very fortunate in that most of the materials will be donated by many of the composite and lumber companies in the area. Anyway my question is what kind of wood are the stringers in the Glastron and also how was the transom put together (aka how many sheets of what kind of plywood). Again, thank you so much for all your help and encouragement in the process!
Isaiah
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Read thru this rebuild ...
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6642 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=6642)
Should give you an idea of what to do and your options for materials.
Also read any thread here about CVX16's so you get others ideas.
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=34 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=34)
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I apologize for the on/off nature of the thread. The boat has been buttoned up since the last update, good thing to with the 3-4 feet of snow on the ground. Anyway, THE BOAT IS FINALLY GOING INTO THE SHOP TOMORROW. Cant wait to get some real work done on this beaut. Thank you for the thread Hyperacme (very delayed thank you) I remember reading that somewhere and couldn't think where. Tomorrow, progress should be made in grinding away the final remnants of the floor and removal of the transom. Should be a good time.
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Finally in! Going to start cleaning it in a few minutes. Even in it's sorry shape everyone was commenting on it's nice lines.
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WOW !
Big heated shop, plenty of help, free materials, a nice CVX16 ....
Please document your build as you go, it will help others doing there CVX build and if you ever want to sell your boat, proof of exactly how it was rebuilt.
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Isaiah,
I'm on board. I am already enjoying your (our) total rebuild. Thank you for sharing with us. A little help from your shop friends will go a long ways in moving forward and not getting bogged down. I guess you found out that behind every restoration there is a lot of dirty, dusty, hard work. We've got a hand on your back. Keep the updates coming.
Rick
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Thank you for everyones support, it's great having such an active and helpful community. Some big accomplishments yesterday, cap taken off and put aside, stringer was removed and transom well on it's way out. Any suggestions on methods or tools on removing the transom, it's proving very difficult. Makes me wonder how they break in the first place ::) Here are some pictures:
1. My friend Bo was dealing with the stringer with a hammer, 5 in 1 and crow bar while I worked on cutting out the transom
2. "I could use that in my garden"
3. The cap stored in our spray booth
4. Stringer out
Also something worth mentioning, I'm probably not going with the original laser blue/blue but with a 1977 CVX 16 original color, Orange flake and white gelcoat (hopefully like Randyj's CV-16ss "fastest restoration thread ever"). I think this may pop a more and if I do something I might as well do it a way I like. Also the whole shop thought that was a pretty sweet scheme. Hope thats not a deal breaker.
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Its your boat...paint it whatever color you like! Shawn's Orange CVX-18 was sweet!
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I like your thoughts on the new color.
On removing the transom wood, I found a rockwell sonicrafter (or the same of another brand) is a great tool to remove the wood on the transom. The last one I did I had to cut 1" x 1" squares and chisel them out.
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I used a cheap Harbor Freight "Oscillating Multi-Tool" , worked pretty good, get the metal bits, last longer.
http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/oscillating-tools/oscillating-multi-tool-62279.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/oscillating-tools/oscillating-multi-tool-62279.html)
I love the apricot / orange !
Go for it !
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Color preference is in the eye of the beholder.
I think all of us have done some mods to the original design in the rebuild process; some for functionality and others for aesthetics. Go for it!
You have probably seen this thread on my floor rebuild, but if not it is here for your reference:
(And I think Greg posted a month or so ago a few vendors with orange carpet.)
Best of luck.
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5298.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5298.0)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q650/dweeres1/024_zpsr0q2n0nk.jpg) (http://s1352.photobucket.com/user/dweeres1/media/024_zpsr0q2n0nk.jpg.html)
(http://i1352.photobucket.com/albums/q650/dweeres1/003_zpsdfb5e034.jpg) (http://s1352.photobucket.com/user/dweeres1/media/003_zpsdfb5e034.jpg.html)
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Orange and white is what I painted my 18 and I am using the same colors on the 23 I am redoing. I used base clear I did not do gel coat.
I also have a 23 Jet that is factory orange.
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Its your boat...paint it whatever color you like! Shawn's Orange CVX-18 was sweet!
Wish I'd had the opportunity to see that one in person.
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All of your boats look so great, I hope mine will look that good one day! I'm glad orange is well received I've come to really like the idea! It's amazing what the right tools can do. I asked our teacher and turns out we had a multi-tool. it took awhile but the transom finally came out. Now working on cleaning up the rest of the hull cutting out tabbing and bad glass, next will be grinding everything down. In the process I found that this is not the first time since 1980 the bilge has seen the light of day. Towards the back where at some point in time it struck something quite hard there is another layer of roving layed down. Very poorly I might add as it's an extremely twisted weave and buried in resin at the bottom and dry higher up. So, thats being pried off along with some other areas of de-lamination. After that the hull will be ground down, repaired, and receive a new layer of glass to add a little more structural integrity to the boat. This will be done with either a chopper gun or hand laid CSM and roving. Here are some images from two classes ago after the transom came out. So Much Filler.
Also I have to thank my boat for getting me into college :P As it made a good topic for a college essay. I will be attending the University of Maine next year gunning for a degree in Civil Engineering.
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Awesome!
These old boats have seen a lot in their time. A lot of owners, a lot of water, and in many cases a lot of repairs. The lucky ones find their way into caring hands and make them as good as new, or better in many cases. It is good to see your moving past the ugly stage in this process and will soon be sniffing resin on a daily basis for a bit. It is up to you but the hull probably doesn't need an entire new coating of glass. These hulls are pretty short and once you get the keel beam in they are solid with no flex.
Congrats on the University entrance, Bangor is a nice area of the country. It is a lot like central and northern Minnesota with lakes, woods and rolling hills. You'll end up writing a few more papers on your ship as you will have a few more English classes to navigate; great topic, something one can be passionate about. Keep these papers and place them in a plastic zip lock hidden away in the ship for the next restorer to find.(My ships story is under the floor.)
Best of luck.
David
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Multi-tool's are slow, but offer better control of areas being cut.
Nice that you got some of the wood out in one piece, for patterns.
There's plans for seats here ...
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3820.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3820.0)
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That's not a bad idea. Would be a pretty cool read if I had one. Also thank you for the seat link, one of the things I've been wondering about. I think Im still going to add another layer, some original layers came up too so it'll prohibit any more deterioration there. Im very fortunate in that all materials are free as many composite businesses donate a lot to our program (I'm so snobby.) Afterwards I think it'll really help creating a clean slate to build off of.
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Finally able to work on the boat again after a week of midterms. Only had one day of class this week because snow day but a lot happened. We found the entire floor and sides were covered with layers of CSM right over the original carpet.... so removing the mat and then carpet is well on its way and I finally understand how these boats were built so that's a plus knowing most of the glass I'm seeing wasn't original. Here's some pictures of the progress and the fiberglass being pulled up (you could almost use it again it's so dry XD)
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You might consider putting in CV 16 back to back seats. Better balance. The back seat is very uncomfortable. Your boat. Your choice. Don't use buttons in the seats. They catch water. The 77 Apricot color is nice. Mine's Persian Orange. (1980)
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Some very big issues surfaced and need to ask the opinions of those who have been there. As stated before the previous owner did some very extensive and painfully improper work. Every chine was filled with filler and then covered with roving. I dug out the first chine and discovered a 5 foot by 2-3 inch tear through the hull, stacked on top of the many other painful pitfalls this sets the final nail in the coffin. My concerns are:
-If a patch will hold especially as the hull is likely warped after all the reinforcement being removed and it's rough past, this is also a high stress area of the hull.
-There is so much wrong with this boat and I've been just gutting it for a month of class now, will it be done? I don't have the resources, time, or money for that matter after. Also the concern of maintaining what would have been done.
-Do I really want this boat to burden me after I have to get a life out of college
-Is there more immense damage like this?
-If I did finish it out, I may get 2 years out of it, and then maybe have to sell it for such a large loss. I may learn a bit but, I'd also learn a lot in the class I'm in doing work that you don't have to take home with you.
I'm not sure if to continue or to park the boat away as a long term lawn ornament or until I win the lottery. I need some suggestions. This has been a real heartbreaker for me. Here are the pictures of the damage on one of the chines. Three more are sealed with the same method and I don't know if more surprises lurk under there.
Thank you in advance for your time, and thoughts. I really appreciate it.
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"Every chine was filled with filler and then covered with roving. I dug out the first chine and discovered a 5 foot by 2-3 inch tear through the hull"
WOW !
Guess it could be fixed ... BUT ...
To much wrong with that hull, I would find one in better shape.
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What was used for filler in the strakes?
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Yeah, I was leaning that direction. Thank you for the input.
Strakes that was the word I was looking for, always get those confused. The filler was this slightly soft greenish, blue stuff, and then some sort of thickened polyester resin.
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The first guy didn't know much about boat design. The strakes are there to give lift therefore less drag. If you can extend the lower strakes or create a pad it can help this effect. The pad Art designed is not perfect. He just filled the mold in effect cut off the V bottom. But its is not parallel. It also has a slight hook plus hooks at the upper strakes. Have fun straightening out that hull!
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I have not had one of these hulls apart but I am pretty sure that some of the go fast builders in the 70's used a resin "putty" to fill the strakes before laying glass.......thinking I have seen that in Checkmates.......Then again my memory is as old as I am so..................?
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My 1978 CVZ-18 has the center strake filled in as the CVZ-18 does not have a center stringer and has a belly fuel tank. This is done from the factory with that same green looking filler.
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Thank you for the contribution on the filler but, I really don't believe this filler to be original. After sanding the bottom through the ablative paint (which hid a lot of damage)I found marks of a repair and no gel coat. the filler is different then all the other original filler in the boat. More reason to believe is the known external damage on the bottom from a very hard impact and the extensive and poorly executed repairs. Either way the damage is there and I'm finding it hard to justify continuing this project at this time. It's amazing how well hidden all of this was in a boat that seemed like such a good candadite.
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Every project whether it's automotive, marine, home, or whatever will always seem to become more daunting the more you tear into it. From your beginning review you had big dreams of what your project would become, but now your in deep enough to question the validity of the project. Some do them for resale, some for sentimental reasons, others for the love of producing something. My advice would get it torn down, nothing left to hide, then decide how to proceed. I have a tendency to take on the real hard luck projects that most won't touch, so I tend to be more optimistic in my advice. Major hull damage may be a deal breaker, plenty of others out there that may work better. Who knows, you might find a twin that has a perfect hull, but a bad top? Best of luck, Michael.
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A fair warning this is a long post. I'm going to break it into two posts.
Well after a week of thinking what I want to do and some persuasion from my Dad (even though he said trash it at first XD) I'm continuing the project. I know I'm never going to get another one at least now, and I know I really want to go 55 on water at some point in my life. After I put the cap back on and stood back It reminded me why I bought it, because it looks so damn cool (This is also why my Dad said go with it). I guess when it's done it'll be even more emotional knowing you truly took it from the grave.
So last class I got started cleaning up and getting ready to patch the damage I uncovered. I'm leaving the other 3 strakes the way they are as they seem pretty solid and don't show damage underneath.
Anyway I started off with an acetone wipe of the damage and back portion Im now using a mini (2") orbital sander with some aggressive grit to feather everything down. Also peeling up any glass I can easily get a 5 in 1 under and grinding the edge off to make sure nothing is weak. The plan going forth is sand the bottom of the strake as well and then acetone wipe again. Then on the inside using infusion polyester and chop strand for the first 2 layers and then roving, CSM,alternating until Im satisfied. Fill with poly, cabosil, and some cut up glass probably. Want to match the other side it also seems to add some rigidity in the rear. After the filler I'll lay up a CSM and Roving layer covering the entire rear area of the bilge to hold everything in. Then mist with PVA. The outside will be built up with csm until I get enough to sand flush. Any comments from the more experienced on this plan of action.
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Part 2:
Now for the most dreaded question of any boating forum. I haven't been able to find the information I've wanted for a long time. It's down the road but I'm either going to paint (Automotive BB/CC, either custom shop (which I hear is just rebranded PPG) or the SPI that fireman uses) or gelcoat. Being a Glastron the two tone adds some difficulty. Also the CVX 16 is a very complex shape, more so than some others, with its moulded striped swoosh and vent up front. I feel bad starting this thread being all like Im going to make this all originally and flip flopping about as things get difficult.
Looking for some opinions for each and some thoughts & concerns I have.
Gelcoat: I like the durability, longevity, originality, and price. However, i'm worried about the excessive thickness over the existing gelcoat, and not being able to catch all the damage, crazing cracks and damage is everywhere on my boat, and after all the work gel coating just to get cracking and spider webbing soon after. The masking and sanding kind of scares me as well, I don't want to mess it up.
Paint: I like the flexibility (not cracking like gelcoat might), how good it looks, with BB/CC two tone will be a snap. The price is a little steeper which is not a gigantic concern but I take it into account. I have more time than money. I'm concerned about it's durability and longevity, this will be a trailer boat not staying in the water for more than a day. Which is good because paint but also I worry the trailer may wear the paint off the bottom/front. Originality isn't a big concern, but I'm worried about painting with flake, I don't want to mess that up, or use many gallons of clear. So I might go for a pearl or metallic finish.
So in the end Im looking for the system that will look good the longest. I know gelcoat may hold on and buff up for 50 years but I don't want it if it's cracking up in 3 years. Paint I hear lasts between 3-20 years, I don't want to do this again soon. This is probably like 3rd time I've asked this and I'm very sorry for that. Please point out anywhere I'm misinformed and any opinions and experiences with both systems and how'd it'd apply to me thank you!!
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Good for you!
I always wanted to pipe in on this but I thought you were leaning towards abandoning the project. And your heart has to be in it, or you never finish.
I think you would find that none of our boats are perfect. In some ways they are functionally better than came out of the factory. (You will undoubtedly make room for a bilge pump) But we are a group of users, and not garage queen show boats. I think we all try to keep them show worthy but it won't take long before that first ding shows up with use. Believe me, all of us that have pulled up floors are quite aghast at what we find underneath.
So, now that you're down to the core and the bull work of cleanup, it is time for the fun part and put it back together. The professionally quality painters will pipe in shortly, but as long as the boat is stored in proper storage (indoors, out of the constant sun) the paint will last your lifetime.
Best of luck.
David
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Zoomed in on picture of crack in stake ...
What the heck happen there ?
Is it just on that one stake or cracks / gouges in others ?
Is the hull warped or twisted ?
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Thank you for your encouragement, the thought of calling it quits hurt me more than helped. Thank you for the comment on the paint as well, if it does last than that would make it a very attractive option. Its hard finding a good argument for paint or gelcoat when its not specific to your case.
As for the damage, yeah I'm guessing the boat cleared over a rock, or fell off a moving trailer. Whatever it was it was a hard hit and the damage is in multiple places. That is the worst Ive found. The rest is just sheared of gel and glass. The bow has roofing tar as a patch ::) can't wait to rip that up.
I'm not sure of the other strakes yet, the boat is ablative bottom painted for now so it may hide more. If the other strakes are damaged the fix seems pretty good physically so I may just leave them and make sure they stay that way. Surprisingly, the hull doesn't seemed too warped, the cap actually went on better the third time! For now Im leaving it on to hold the shape as I fix the gash. This boat has had a hard life.
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I just posted some stuff in my 23 thread about fixing spider cracks. They can come back in paint or gel. Its the glass that cracks then causes the paint or gel to crack as well.
Any large damage areas you will want to grind out a big area. grind it down really thin in the worst area and the less and less as you move out. Start with small pieces of glass and then slowly get larger as you move away from the the bottom/ worst area. If your fixing a ping pong ball size hole you should fix an area the size of a softball.
My vote would be for paint. It is much easier and more user friendly. I would pretty much guarantee you will spend more on Gel then you would paint. Plus you need to completely sand out gel and buff it to get the smooth gloss finish after you are done painting. There are many ways to do flake. You can spray it on dry into wet clear or you can add it into clear and spray it that way. I have done both and each work. spraying dry flake(need a flake gun) you waste more flake however it seams to cover faster and better.
If you do go with paint you could do a single stage paint. instead of 2 stage base clear. They make metallic paint in single stage as well. It would be harder if you wanted to do flake with single stage. On my 23 I did single stage for the white and then cleared it when I did the flake. As you mentioned I am somewhat concerned about the wear from the bunks on the trailer. However if you look at a lot of the go fast high end boats. They are pretty much all painted with base clear.
Just my thoughts.
Good luck on your project and remember its will still be a lot cheaper than a new boat! Im heading out now to do some more bodywork.
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Happy Birthday 17iried !
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Happy B-Day Isaiah
Shawn is correct about cost and ease of paint.
when i did my 1900 i spent lots of time estimating material cost and it appeared to me paint would cost more, but in the end it was not true, first thing i did not consider was how much sand paper is required to sand the gel down.
i also spent several hours on the phone with Old Red, a man with vast knowledge and experience on the subject, he also suggested i use paint. but because i really wanted to try gel-coat and wanted to use big square flake, i did it anyways.
my GT150 is painted, i repainted only a portion of it, have used it hard for 4 years and its holding up just fine. though with paint if ya hit a dock or something it will scratch easier than gel.
that said the next one i do will prob get paint.
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Paint it! :D
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I did this hull in clear/purple flake some years back with paint..........couple years ago it got a refresh with new structure and gel (same bags of flake)........I think the gel looks better but could just be prep/application......all my non flake stuff is paint
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I would recommend automotive paint, cost wise, Paintforcars.com has the best price for materials. Paint will be quick and inexpensive, and much easier to finish and repair given the uncertain nature of your hull structure post repair. Cracking will occur, how bad is tied to hull integrity and how hard you push it. Go with a simple BC/CC and if all goes well, prep and shoot a clear with flake later. What I found was that I needed to use a large tip(primer) to pass the flake size. This caused orange peel which is a benefit when shooting flake, it holds the flake at many different angles. Let the build up continue with several coats, then switch to clear alone and lay down several wet coats. With some wet sanding and further coats of clear the finish will smooth out and the flake will look awesome.
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Thank you for the birthday wishes and all the information. Sounds like paint is the way to go, I was a little surprised, but hey I can't argue with less work and money.
Plugcheck: I have looked at paintforcars before and it looks very attractive. I think you were the first to mention it to me the last time I asked this question. Is it a decent product? I haven't been able to get a real answer on durability. Their testimonials look impressive but, of course they would. The whole ya get what ya pay for thing has me worried.
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Cracking will occur, how bad is tied to hull integrity and how hard you push it.
I disagree with you on this unless there is a stress point or weak spot it should not crack or spiderweb. There are a lot of boats and a lot of cars with fiberglass parts and they are not cracked or spidered at all. You have to cure the problem or they will come back. When I did my 18 there was a number of spider cracks. I repaired them all and drove that boat very hard for 2 years before selling it and there was no cracks in it. Only a couple scratches from the dock and kids trying to put something in it.
I also glassed a fiberglass scoop on a steel hood and seen the car 2 years later at a show no cracks Pics below
Most of the reason there are stress cracks on the boats is because the stringers and floor are bad letting the hull flex. Or in the 23's case there are just some weak spots that cause it, even if the floor and stringers are good.
As for paint you get what you pay for. I have had really good luck with some and bad luck with some. A number of my friends drive cars I repaired for them years ago. Some of them have fading or chalky clear some don't. I don't recall anymore what brand I used on each one. I have had good luck with the SPI products I mentioned to you. I have used them on a few projects and the CVX18 I did looked just as good years later as it did the day I painted it. They have rave reviews from a lot of the hot rod web sites, forums and builders. One thing to consider with clear is its ability to withstand UV. I dont know about u but boating is usually done when the sun is out. With the web now days you can research anything with a few clicks of a mouse. I a lot of times will type in what I am looking for and the word forum behind it. Then you can find different forums and see other peoples experience with a product.
Just my thoughts
Good luck on the project.
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I just looked at the paint for cars website, they do have a fairly wide range of products available, and their top-of-the-line Products seem to be priced in line with others that I have looked at.
My father-in-law had been painting with kirker products for quite a few years, what looks to be a well respected brand. But unfortunately he bought a whole lot of their cheapest clear and it didn't hold up very well over the years. Also there red single stage got chalky and faded real bad on the cars I had with it though I never waxed any of them so it might just be my fault.
When I compared prices and felt that Gel would be cheaper than paint. The paint comparison was top end basecoat clear-coat products.
Just to reiterate you get what you pay for
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To clarify, my cvz 18 has been pushed pretty hard, and been reshot several times due to dock rash and beaching. Still no glass cracking yet, but Tims GT was completely re done and finished and the transom connection cracked while trailering. As for UV fade, my Z probably sees about 30 days a year in the sun. Its not a question of products used, but what fits the needs of the craftsman. I shot my show Baja in GM Torch red using the finest products DuPont had to offer in 1996, still looks fantastic today, but I knew then I would never part with it. Those products were over $1500 then, I used about $400 in products to shoot the CVZ a few years back in two colors. It is a learning experience, from which the Timi will benefit.
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Ditto on the GT transom cracks, Obviously flexes there a lot, I'm not sure if mine came from trailer if or just that I beat the snot out of it. I was surprised because I added huge gussets to the transom.
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If you look close at the corners of the transom/splashwell you will see gussets on each side.....after new transom was in I made plywood gussets and epoxied them in place and then blended them in. This transom also has three knee braces....If you are willing to go non stock I think knees and corner gussets help keep the cracks away.
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Small stress crack are one thing, but that's a huge gapping hole, with damage to fibers around it !
Just saying ...
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All good to know and things to do and consider when I get to that point thank you for all the input and opinions! Definitely cleared up my mind a bit. Back to fixing that rip through the hull. Haven't been able to do much getting so many snow days!
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I had to go back and look at the damage photo, rather dramatic. They must have hit something hard. The cracked ng I was referring to is the very minor cracking at stress points. As for the hull breach, that is about as bad as it can get. As Shawn stated, grind it down and start layering the glass, getting wider at each pass. Your stringers may not be symmetrical based on your buildup, but that's OK. I see your crisis point more clearly now, power through, and get the hull done. Once the stringers/floor are done, I would think your over the hump. Best wishes, Michael.
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Yeah it's pretty gnarly. Must have been pretty crazy driving when that happened. It's going to be an interesting repair but when it gets done it'll be that much more of an accomplishment.
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Well I've been grinding and prepping to fix the hole and am ready to layup on Wednesday. I wiped everything down with acetone to get rid of any residual grease or release agents (which I read can still be around even after all this time) sanded and feathered off everything in and around the hole with a 2" orbital topped with a normal DA and then used a Dremel to dig out any spots too tight, cracks, lowspots and get rid of any fray glass, then another wipe with acetone. Work with long sleeves and pants, a dust mask and vacuum handy as this gets dusty and scratchy, you'll be glad you did. Heres some picture of the prepped gash.
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I still find this really, really odd.
I can't say I've ever seen a straight line gash like this, with what appears to be little or no damage around it. Even if it hit a sturdy pole in the water I would think there would be more surrounding damage.
Is it possible that this was cut in purposely??
The clean up looks great though. The fun part is next as you start cooking resin and laying up layer after layer, it goes pretty fast if you have the glass cut prior.
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I think it skidded off the trailer...or rammed up the launch ramp...something!
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No offense, but think I'd be lookin for another hull ...
That damage is purty gnarly.
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None taken ;D It's a piece of garbage, but it's my class project. I may take 50 years to get it done but, I'm having fun and it's a good time consumer. If it is finished though it'll be that much bigger of an accomplishment. Also looking at college coming up buying another Glastron wouldn't be my best decision, so I'll have fun with what I have. I may be buying a car for college soon too, so theres that.
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If repaired right, it should be OK.
Guess most of us look at it (old boats) as a cost/time thing, which is something you don't need to worry about.
Keep use updated on progress ...
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As long as you fix it right I wouldn't be worried about it. It's just fiberglass and resin. Its not like you are filling a steel fender with bondo. Grind it out and rebuild it it will be just like new probably better.
If I had to guess I would bet it was a defect from the factory and didn't get laid up right. Didn't Jim's boat do almost the exact same thing last year when he was on the water.
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So I was able to fix all the little things and gouges from the cut off wheel, brushed on some resin quickly and laid up two layers of CSM plus some more ripped off pieces along the damage to get a smoother contour and then got one layer of roving down before having to stop. Im planning on putting down one more layer of chop and then roving to top it off. Because I thought I was going to get it all done I used GP Resin (its fancy though and doesn't have wax, I don't know thats what I was told) but it will fully cure so I will have to sand/wipe beforehand. Overall though it's looking really good!!
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That is quite the high school project; I built a small tool box and thought that was a great accomplishment . :)
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All done with the repair, at least on the inside, still need to flip and smooth out the underside but that'll be later. A lot of glass in this.
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Looks like some nice work!
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Very nicely done, couldn't do it better myself. Glad to see you've created the hill, hardest part behind you now.
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Good as new !
Keep up the good work ...
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Well, haven't done too much major work recently. Been doing little exterior repairs here and there, taking a break from being covered in glass shards :P Anyway, looking down the road a bit, how much did upholstery end up costing, any rough guesses would be appreciated. I'd like to have the front buckets, rear seat, and sides made. I'm kind of thinking 1 color, white or like creme, no buttons, new foam and fabric. Thanks!
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I was told about $1500 to do seats and curtain for my CV16.
Material came to $250 shipped.
Shawn had his CVX18 done and could give you figures, he told me but I can't remember now ... Imagine that ...
Plans for front seats are here ...
Barrel back ...
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7007.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7007.0)
Button style ...
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7003.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7003.0)
CVX side panels ... Side panels are pretty easy, you could do them yourself.
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7004.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=7004.0)
Shawn's CVX / with barrel back seats ...
(http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4202.0;attach=19321;image)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAMNpic%203/IMG_0565765x1024_zps1263e4ff.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAMNpic%203/IMG_0566765x1024_zps47e25b78.jpg)
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If I remember I think it was around $2200. I made all the seats and side panels.
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With my CVX16 the bucket seats were $350 each and the rear was $750. That's using the same frames and foam. With the side panels the whole job came to around $1800 with me doing the install as the boat never saw the shop.
I was never happy with how the color matched the rest of the boat. My advice is to get multiple samples of vinyl and lay it up against the boat to see how it looks. I compared my samples to a picture I had which was a bad idea.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/blinddate/intthree.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/blinddate/media/intthree.jpg.html)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/blinddate/intone.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/blinddate/media/intone.jpg.html)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/blinddate/inttwo.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/blinddate/media/inttwo.jpg.html)
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After looking at many samples online, I sent a request for samples.
The colors that looked good online were "Way Off" ... and the one that didn't look close was ... very close to original ...
Hey Kip ... did I ever tell ya ... I should have grab your CVX ... LOL
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Gregg you've mentioned that once or twice :P..............LOL
You did your vinyl selection the correct way which is why your interior on your CV16 turned out better than new! I like the newer style steering wheel you put in it a 100X better than what was there when you got it. Sharp!
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I labored for hours trying to get the white shade in the upholstery to match the kinda flesh color white in the V-153. Must have gone through about 5 sample books from the upholsterer. Thought I had it, but I didn't. When selecting, I needed to take my sunglasses off, and also match the colors in the shade, not outside in the sun.
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Thanks for the info and quotes, I wasn't sure what I'd be looking at, seems doable. Fortunately prices around these parts are on the lower side, (I think) and I have a pretty simple plan so that'll help more. Until then lots of work to do, just that upholstery question was scaring me. Anyway, change in plan with the Glastron, going to be taking the cap off, flipping the hull onto the floor and sanding off all that nasty bottom paint off and then fixing the many damages on the bottom. Should be fun, thought it might be better to do that before making it heavy with new wood and glass. Updates and photos on how this goes should be coming soon. In the meantime I've ground out some snap holes for filling, a huge spider crack from some sort of sharp impact, and fixed a big split in the tail end. Feels good to be finally putting things back together rather than tearing it apart.
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Flipped the boat today! 8 guys made quick work of it. First time I've had it off the trailer, and it looks so much smaller on the ground, scary thinking I'll be going 60mph one day in this thing (if it's ever done). Here are pictures before I began sanding off the bottom paint and inspecting the damage. Any quick and cheap ways of removing the bottom paint, I've heard Easy-Off oven cleaner works (Sodium Hydroxide?), any experience with this? I don't really want to order that expensive fancy purpose made stuff and wait a week before I can start working again.
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I'm not a fan of chemical strippers. Secondly, there's not much reason to completely strip the bottom either. Under what appears to be an ablative coating, there should be some type of gel coat. Maybe rough off areas with a 60-80 grit, then determine what other repairs are required. Smooth, straight, and solid is your goal, but it doesn't have to be perfect, and do your best not to break through to glass unless absolutely necessary. Lots of choices, but given its history, I wouldn't spend the time to make perfect. I doubt you'd notice the performance difference between a blueprinted hull, and a decent smooth strong hull.
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From early pictures you posted, I though damaged area was more to the side of hull, second or third stake.
Should be pretty thick (Fiberglass) area on the pad.
Mr. Brown stated ... Blue printing CVX hull was a waste of time.
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=6006.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=6006.0)
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I'm not a fan of chemical strippers. Secondly, there's not much reason to completely strip the bottom either. Under what appears to be an ablative coating, there should be some type of gel coat. Maybe rough off areas with a 60-80 grit, then determine what other repairs are required. Smooth, straight, and solid is your goal, but it doesn't have to be perfect, and do your best not to break through to glass unless absolutely necessary. Lots of choices, but given its history, I wouldn't spend the time to make perfect. I doubt you'd notice the performance difference between a blueprinted hull, and a decent smooth strong hull.
Blueprinting a hull is just smoothing and straightening the hull. If you want your can sharpen the strakes and back edge. Do CVX 16 have a hook in them?
I would remove all the ablative paint or gel/paint will not get good adhesion to the ablative. That stuff is made to wear off/ away.
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I was planning on removing just the ablative, and there is quite a few damages on the underside to address, just didn't know if there was an easier way to remove the ablative besides a ton of sanding. I believe there is a hook in the hull if I have my terminology right, is that the kinda short lifting curve on the outside of the ends of the hull. I'd be interested in learning how to improve hull performance if anyone can chime in on some options :)
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The outside stakes have a hook to help the boat get on plane. These stakes are above the water when the boat is planning. The pad and the inner part of the hull should be straight.
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White Bear Boat Works (Mike) repaired my hull back in 2012 and did a fantastic job. Scotty's boat is along side of mine.
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Strakes should be sharp and straight .....I think.....The running surface on my Challenger project was in black gel @ 600 grit....idea was to reduce friction/adhesion to the water. Also added aft "lift pads" to help free it up.
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Sanding bottom paint is about 1/3 done, it's some slow going. I took the boat home for Spring vacation, hoping to get some friends to help with the dirty work and finish it up. Because Im tired of working by myself. Anyway until the "sanding party" I'm marking all the cracks damages with sharpie and digging them out for future fixing. Here it is in the driveway in all it's unrestored glory.
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Spent a good part of the day grinding out all 1 million cracks and screw holes. So much dust. Also, not sure if I regret this but I removed the handrail. I didn't really feel like masking it when its time to paint, and there was some minor cracking around it. I tried removing it in one piece but the hull would've taken some damage. So I cut it with a hacksaw. It looks nice without it, but its kinda nice having a shelf and place to hold on there. Not sure how I'd be able to install a new one. For some reason I feel like I've marred the boat by doing that.
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I believe you did the right thing removing the grab bar. Make the glass and structure solid, then fashion a new bar, or find a replacement. Could even make the replacement better than original. Much like vehicles, passengers need their "Jesus bar"
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I thought I read somewhere that Tom Brown extended the lower strakes. I'm sure I would do it in your position now. You can match them with composition board at Menard's. I epoxied them on my fishing boat. Rip on a table saw. It could affect turning at high speed but you normally don't do that. Might help prevent chine walking. Don't think it says it here: http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=6006.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=6006.0)
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Hi sorry for breaking the golden old post rule - but currently doing elements on this but I couldn't see if you replaced the foam after reassembling - did you? or do people generally rip it out? it seems like there are two blocks either side of the stern?
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Drill a hole near bottom and see if shaving of foam come out wet, or water runs out ...
I didn't replace mine but I do all my boating on rivers, so I'm close to shore if something happens.
If you plan to use it out on large lake would be good idea to replace if wet.
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Great I'm mainly on rivers with an occasional sea - another question - the rub board either side of the wheel the got to th back Seat ( long thin vinyl wrapped panels) did you guys use marine ply for this as I'm struggling to find anything less than 12mm that's marine but found some 4mm external ply was going to put a thin layer of dim then vinyls dan staple... would That be ok or why it fall apart?
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4mm seems a bit thin of material, but as for a marine ply requirement, there really isn't one. I use 3/8" or 1/2"( 10-13mm) outdoor plywood, then use standard fiberglass resin with approximately 10-15% acetone to thin the resin. Then just paint it on the bare wood as a sealant. Good paint may work as well, but I've had good success with resin and acetone. Use some thin foam and spray adhesive, then staple the vinyl on. If you leave the vinyl in the sun, it stretches much better.
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There are some places where plascore works nice. Easy to cut and fit. Strong and very light. Never ever rots.
(http://employees.casinotrac.com/edgeglass.jpg)