Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: MarkS on June 12, 2010, 02:08:12 PM
-
A 21P may be too much, but I LIKE IT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nKLPX-_xVA
-
I'm I seeing 46 mph at 4300 rpm's ?
Speedo is hard to see.
-
It looked like 39mph, but you're right Gregg, it was hard to see. Haulin' the mail, that's all I can tell for sure! I don't care about turning MAX rpm, (5500) unless it's bad turning less for the old Johnson, what do you think? I was told the "sweet spot" was about 3500, and the 21P is sweet right about there.
-
OK ..
When I'd freeze the video, speedo was very hard to read.
My understanding about props/rpm's/mph is to run a prop that gets your rpm's at WOT some where in the middle of your max. rpm range.
I have heard that proping your motor for under max rpm's is not good for it. ( but that was off a Merc forum )
"Sweet spot" would be your motor would be running 5250 rpm's at WOT and when you throttled down to 3500 rpm's it would run at it's best mpg range of powerband.
If that all makes sence ?
-
Marks speedo may be reading in knots and if that's the case 39 knots is about 44.8 mph.
-
It makes sense on the sweet spot Gregg, I'm just trying to sort out my best cruising range without hurting the motor. I don't like running WOT, I mean she is 37 years old! (Do like a blast now and then, gotta be honest though.) Think I need to put the 19P four blade back on and see what that does now that I have a tach that reads right. I would be happy with the 21P at 3500 for cruising, it just "feels better".
Update: 19P back on, anybody need a three hour old 21P?
-
I got a new Michigan Wheel Vortex XHS 13x19 prop to test, thinking the newer style could get me a few more 10th of a mph but lost over a half mph.
Have also tried a 13 x 19 SST prop and got the same mph as my old style OMC prop.
If I can find a 21P locally for cheap I might give it a try, but think I'll try other brands of 19P.
By old style I mean the old OMC with the convergence hub on the end ... see picture...to hard to explane ...LOL
Dave found it for me, $35 rebuilt and the fastest prop I have tried to date.
What brand is your 21P ?
First picture is rebuit OMC 19P with convergance hub , best one so far.
Second picture from left to right, OMC 17P alm. with convergance hub , OMC 19P alm. with convergance hub and last is a OMC 19P SST.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/p1.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/p2.jpg)
-
It's a Solas Amita 3. It has pretty good cupping on the blades, solid rubber hub. Might be just what you're looking for, I don't know?(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/6-13-10002Large.jpg)(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/6-13-10001Large.jpg)And the four blade 19P I'm going back to.(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/6-13-10003Large.jpg)How does $75 and I'll pay the shipping sound?
-
I think the 21P would pull my rpm's down to low, I'm getting 5400 rpm's with the 19P props ( my rpm range is 5000 to 6000 rpm's ).
HUMMM... Your 19P is a four blade ... some thing else to try ...LOL
Got my 19P for sale also ...
Michigan Wheel Vortex XHS 13x19 prop - $85 (Woodbury)
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/boa/1788110417.html
-
Yes, it probably would. If you hear of anybody looking for one, you know who to refer them to right? The four blade is 1/2" smaller diameter (12.5) than the three blades, hurts top end but what a holeshot!!!(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/6-12-10002.jpg)(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/6-12-10003.jpg)The Simpsons were sitting out by the lake yesterday. ::)
-
OK ...
Four blades out ..
Would rather have top end.
Is your prop on Craigslist ?
-
Just posted it: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/boa/1789866891.html (http://atlanta.craigslist.org/sat/boa/1789866891.html)
-
You should always prop your boat for WOT. After you get all your normal running gear like life jackets, anchors, batteries and what ever else you like to bring along in the boat thats where you should prop it at. You will do more harm than good being over propped, you end up putting more strain on the motor being over propped
-
Thanks for the advise, I should be back up well within the operating range now. I didn't get a chance to re-test today, but the 19P four blade is back on the boat, will report back next weekend after doing so with the accurate tach. Guess that "need for speed" thing kinda snuck up on me, don't ya just hate it when that happens!?
-
You should always prop your boat for WOT. After you get all your normal running gear like life jackets, anchors, batteries and what ever else you like to bring along in the boat thats where you should prop it at. You will do more harm than good being over propped, you end up putting more strain on the motor being over propped
Ideally. For top end. You should be propped a couple/few hundred rpm above the factory recommended 'redline' @ wot. Talking 2 stroke outboards that is. Rpm = hp.
Do not try this with your 4 stroke I/O.
-
I appreciate the input and advise guys, thanks. I should be fine with the 19P four blade, we'll find out next Sat.! If it does go too high, I'll be in touch about that Vortex Gregg. (Wanted to prop test again yesterday, but worked on domestic chores to keep the better half happy.) I go boating by myself most of the time (NOT complaining), and pretty much have the same equipment on board, so the load in my boat rarely changes. Guess I gotta just get used to letting her sing full song to me back there!
-
Unless you have done good mod work to your motor I would not recommend exceeding the factory WOT RPM. Bad things can happen to a stock engine being over reved and if the stock motor is not tuned properly and you exceed the factory RPM redline on a regular basis it's not the matter if, it's a matter of when it blows up on you. On stock motors everything has to be set up perfect like timing, carbs, fuel and air flow to the motor all the time to be able to run maybe at the most 300 rpm's above factory rcommendations. I have seen what happens to a stock motor when you constantly over rev, it destroys everything including the engine block so when it goes dont try to fix it just go buy another motor.
-
I understand about not over-revving, I sure don't want to "implode" this great old motor. Now that I have a tach that actually works, it WON'T see anything over 5500! Guess I should have worded my statement a little more clearly. What I should have said, is if I still have throttle left at 5500, I'll be in touch about the Vortex.
The 21P sold last night (thanks Sean), and will be on it's way to MN today.
-
Unless you have done good mod work to your motor I would not recommend exceeding the factory WOT RPM. Bad things can happen to a stock engine being over reved and if the stock motor is not tuned properly and you exceed the factory RPM redline on a regular basis it's not the matter if, it's a matter of when it blows up on you. On stock motors everything has to be set up perfect like timing, carbs, fuel and air flow to the motor all the time to be able to run maybe at the most 300 rpm's above factory rcommendations. I have seen what happens to a stock motor when you constantly over rev, it destroys everything including the engine block so when it goes dont try to fix it just go buy another motor.
Not trying to say you should rush out & run 2 -300 rpm above the redline all day long. 'Specially with a stock motor. But for bursts of top end and/or cruising @ higher speeds that's where I've always tried to prop my outboards. In a perfect world we'd all have a prop that could pull 10 skiers, cruise 35mph @ 3000rpm, and max out a lil over the redline @ wot. Sadly we live in an imperfect world ...
If you're looking for top end you need to lose the 4 blade Mark. Great holeshot yeah but not a top end prop. Step up to a 3 blade stainless say 13 1/2 or 13 3/4 by 19 or 20 for starters. Raising the motor a hole would probably help too. With no ill effects.
Now the prop testing fun begins ... !
-
If you're looking for top end you need to lose the 4 blade Mark. Great holeshot yeah but not a top end prop.
Yeah, I should have gone with a 3 blade 19P as a starting point, just had a "bonehead moment" when I bought it. At least the 4/19P will get me out of the lugging issue, I'll just have to see where my RPM's are this weekend, and be careful not to over-rev of course. I'll also try moving the trim pin up a notch, I'm only one hole up from bottom now. I'm leaving the proceeds from selling the 21P in my Paypal account to start saving for a new 3 blade, would love to go stainless but we'll see how it goes....Now the prop testing fun begins ... !
Absolutely, it's all part of the learning process right!? My next motor WILL have PT&T! I've had two hernia operations in the last two years, (work injuries), and lifting/tilting the V4 is the only part of the whole thing I Don't like.
-
My old motor (1971 65 HP Merc with out T&T) was 3 holes out and I picked up a few mph, but was starting to burn prop.
Worth a try on the tilt pins.
" just had a "bonehead moment" when I bought it. "
You never know until you try Mark !
Tilt & Trim are the reason I got the new motor ... Worth every penny !
-
Eh. Bonehead schmonehead. It happens. But for top end the less blades the merrier. Well, no less than two blades that is ...
-
It'll make a good emergency back-up prop, plus it may come in handy if I ever want to pull stumps, houseboats, floating docks, etc.. ;D
How much does the RPM drop by going from 13" dia to 13 1/5? (I've never seen anybody measure ANYTHING in 1/5ths of an inch, until now of course.)http://boatpropellers.iboats.com/Johnson/115_HP_%281973Newer%29_19.00-Pitch_Propellers/87/?rotation=Standard&session_id=526693746&cart_id=605306644 (http://boatpropellers.iboats.com/Johnson/115_HP_%281973Newer%29_19.00-Pitch_Propellers/87/?rotation=Standard&session_id=526693746&cart_id=605306644)
-
Prop Mfg. set the diameter of a prop and is selected for what works best.
We just pick which prop gets us into the max. RPM range for our motors.
I have found drops of 200 to 400 RPM's when going from a 17P to 19P prop.
There all differant and do differant things to speed and RPM's.
The only way to tell what a prop will do is to try it.
Mfg. just give you guide lines to what it should do.
Buy and sell on CL to keep cost down.
My best prop so far only cost me $35 !
-
Prop test results from this morning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAjoUpP5r_w
19P four blade w/trim pin in second hole from bottom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8qXeyufF9k
Same prop, trim pin in third hole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyTZibwOq4I
Transom shot for FUN!
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/6-19-10007.jpg)
The Starflite waiting for testing
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/6-19-10006.jpg)
My "home at the lake". Reasoner's Landing Marina - Jackson, GA
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/6-19-10001.jpg)
Doin' what I love best! - Hammerin'
-
19P Second hole = 4800 RPM's , 48 mph
19P Third hole = 4950 RPM's , 49 mph
Transom shot = COOL !
Mark, should be easy to find a OMC 13 x 19, 3 blade prop in your area for about $50.
Do you know any one with a GPS ?
Bring 1 fuel tank half full, one life jacket, 1 can of beer/pop, don't eat breakfast, leave anchor and everything else at the dock .. LOL
-
Speaking of transom shots ...
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/ROBANGIE102_033.jpg)
-
I got one like that too.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V176%20Swinger/V176%20Splash%20Day%202007/V176%20Candlewood%20Lake%202006/IMG_00032.jpg)
-
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l314/emichael0123/P5314692.jpg)
I haven't even been out yet this year. :( A VERY wet June in the Northwest. High water on the rivers means debris, so we have stayed on the trailer. The Willamette river has been running 4-5 times normal flow for this time of the year. A news broadcast from the river patrol boat showed logs, trees, & a dock floating along.
<Sigh> Here's hoping for an Indian Summer!!!
-
Hyperacme wrote:
Do you know any one with a GPS ?
Bring 1 fuel tank half full, one life jacket, 1 can of beer/pop, don't eat breakfast, leave anchor and everything else at the dock .. LOL
My neighbor has one, I just hate asking to borrow ANYTHING! May have to break down and do it tho.....
I started yesterday on 3 gal of last weeks synthetic mix, (doing a little comparison on oils) and ran thru it in less than an hour! Forgot that tank was only half full, got that SICK feeling when the Johnson went silent at full song! Whew, it dawned on me what had happened and I busted out laughing. Normally I just bring the 12 gal tank full, (have two extra 6 gal tanks for long runs), only good for a little over three hours run time. Gas is TOO HIGH at the marinas, I fill up before I get to the lake. (Okay, I'm a cheap axx.) ;D
-
I have two 6 gal. tanks and every time I run out on the first tank I get that sick feeling my motor just broke ...
About 2 seconds latter it comes to me ... Your out of GAS !
GPS's are down to $90 now, Most people who have both speedo & GPS say there speedo's only off by a mph or two at 40 to 50 mph, which isn't to bad.
If you could just borrow one to check your speedo, you could use money for other things ...
I use to have a 25 foot cruiser with a 80 gal. tank a few years ago when gas at the dock was almost $4.00 a gal.
Do the math ... not pretty ... LOL
-
Good ol transom shots!
Mine:
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/Boat/072808246.jpg)
Jims SSV:
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/Boat/P1030982.jpg)
-
St. Croix three years ago.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/st_croix_075_resize.jpg)
-
(Last Year) My first "Classic" 1958 Cutter Tornado w/ 62 Merc 700FGS (Sold this Feb. when I got the Starflite, better half said "you don't need two"!(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/10-10-09boat012.jpg))
-
Hey Jason. For what it's worth I think your boat is awesome. The green metalflake is too cool. Really like the way it rides too. Lotsa bow lift, etc.
-
Hey Jason. For what it's worth I think your boat is awesome. The green metalflake is too cool. Really like the way it rides too. Lotsa bow lift, etc.
Come up in August and i'll give you a ride....... Maybe even let you drive. Thank you for the compliments. Hopefully she will have a big sister soon!!!
-
More prop testing this morning"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qgBdDuVCh0
19P three blade, third trim hole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvJlFf3DwXk
same prop, fourth trim hole. Really had to feather the throttle on take-off, but got an honest 40MPH by the speedo.......... ;)
-
I just picked up a Garmin iQue 3200 GPS for $19.00 on ebay. If you don't need the absolute latest & greatest, you don't need to spend a fortune for a GPS.
-
WAHOO !
You got the big 40 !
Might be better to go back to 3rd hole and 39 mph, I was getting prop burn on forth hole.
-
Might be better to go back to 3rd hole and 39 mph, I was getting prop burn on forth hole.
That's exactly what I did right after the test, Gregg. I just wanted to make the 40 number, kind of a "goal" if you will. Any turn at all in that hole produced slippage, and I like being able to "hammer at will". ;) I may look at raising the motor mounting one hole this winter, it's adjustable ya know. Seems like she rides a little lower than it should, hard to tell with the two plane anti-cav plates. (Front upper is just above the keel maybe 3/4", lower rear is below at least 1"). Right now I'm happy with it all, so no worries.
If you don't need the absolute latest & greatest, you don't need to spend a fortune for a GPS.
I'll have to keep my eyes out for a deal like that!
-
Wish I could watch the videos Mark but I have dial up :(
So what have you concluded so far? Going back to a 3 blade? 19 or 21"
-
I've gotta stay with the 19P Ross, the 21 doesn't let me get enough RPM and I sold it already. So now I have two 19's, a 13" dia three and a 12 1/2" dia four. To be honest, there isn't much difference in top end between the two, maybe 1 or 2 MPH! The four launches harder and I'll keep it on the boat for a backup, and use it for tubing, etc..
I'm a little concerned about the new Solas Amita 3. After the first day on Sat the prop nut was finger loose. (The cotter pin was still in, but the tension was gone on the nut.) So I re-tightened it before going out again Sun, and when I checked it tonight it's loose again! (Cotter pin still there, just no tension on the nut at all.) The manual says to tighten the nut by hand, then turn whatever additional is required to line up the cotter pin, sound right? The four blade QL by Volvo doesn't (didn't) do that, but it has a different hub setup. (Alum. splined hub with springs) Wondering if the rubber in the Amita is compressing, will it eventually stop doing that, or what???
-
Mark
Haven't had that problem with the 5 or 6 props I've tryed.
The brand new Michigan Wheel prop has the XHS hub thingy, so I check it after the first run (about 2-3 hours run time) and it was tight. Checked it the second time out (another 2-3 hour run) and still tight.
-
Ya my 13 1/2 x 22 Lightspeed has/uses XHS. Stands for "Exchangeable Hub System" btw. Works fine for me.
Never seen the technology so graphicly displayed before Gregg. Thank you. Makes me kinda horny & proud at the same time, in a non gay mechanical way that is ...
The twins:
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/coilprop_005-1.jpg)
-
My transom shot, little late but here it is.
(http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae257/76express/DSC_0226.jpg)
-
I like that.
-
Yup. That's a purty one!
-
I think we saved the best transom shot for last, Awesome! Kind of appropriate for the holiday, too.
Update: Third run on the Amita 3 yesterday, water was too rough for any WOT runs. (My back still hurts from the pounding.) Talked to the Solas tech info guy before I went out, he assured me that if it was defective they would replace it under warranty. The nut stayed tight this time, guess everything's gonna be all right. (EGBAR!) ;D
-
My transom shot, little late but here it is.
Yup, perfect! Sunset (or is it sunrise?) a boat and a flag!
-
That was sunset may 15th on lake pokegama.