Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: WetRaider on May 05, 2012, 07:48:57 PM
-
Holy Moly.
Trying to clean up the boat, so I can work in it - we finally had a nice sunny day and I could risk dragging out tools, etc. into the yard.
Interior was pulled down to the carpeted floor. Discovered only the rear half of the carpet was glued down - the front half would shift and bubble. So I pulled it back, thinking I might go pick up some proper adhesive ... my plywood floor is bare-ass plywood. Naked. Nothing. Just a chunk of CDX plywood plunked down with about 8 screws.
Realized I need to get a new piece, coat it properly, and replace what I've got so I started pulling the rest of the carpet. PO used Liquid Nails flooring adhesive, with a v-notch trowel to spread it all around. Looked like a giant shoe stepped in gum the way this stuff was stringing around. Also have discovered that he used a rubberized waterproofing brushed on a large majority of the hull - it goes under the naked plywood floor, didn't use it to seal up or waterproof the cut edges of the plywood.
How should I go about getting that rubberized crap out? Wire cup brush? Flap wheel on the grinder? Should I worry about it everywhere, or only where I need to tie in the floor as I glass over it?
Also, the rub-rail end caps for the transom that I bought online seem to be almost an inch too long. Supposedly from the same year. Makes me feel dumb out there looking at it for too long.
-
I used a cup brush on my buffer to get all the glue the last guy used to glue the carpet down. I wouldnt think that you would need to get all the old out just where ever you will be putting down glass and resin.
-
Also, the rub-rail end caps for the transom that I bought online seem to be almost an inch too long. Supposedly from the same year.
Hey Dan, you're working on the GT-150? Those trim pieces that came with my project boat (1971) are too short, wanna trade or sell those? If you'll shoot me an email to , I'll send you some pics and we'll talk about it.....
-
AAARRRRGGGG ...
That sucks !
At least when your done ya lnow it will be done RIGHT ...
-
OK.
I won't be able to blame the PO anymore.
New transom wood had delaminated from the fiberglass.
Lifted the deck - I thought - and realized that I had lifted the whole damn thing off the trailer. Eventually, I started to hear a zipper sound & the hull dropped back into the trailer ... only it took the splash well with it. The splash well, where it wraps over the top of the transom had been glued with liquid nails AND riveted to the transom. Then, the top and bottom had been foamed together with "Great Stuff."
So, outta this deal, I'm getting a new floor (don't even ask about stringers, I'm afraid to look right now), new transom, new splash well ... might even make me a fiberglass "fastback" tonneau cover. To think I started out thinking I could ratchet my transom into place and build some bracing to tie it in to the floor. I'll spend tomorrow afternoon on the phone with Express Composites and get some material ordered. With some determination, I'll be water worthy come June. Maybe not pretty, but at least she'll have good bones. Wish me luck.
-
When you talk to Jim at Express ask him about Roving with Mat for the floor.
-
Jerry -
Called Express Composites today, Jim was not in. Talked to Tomas. We talked through the project and he sent me a decent list of product. When we was talking about the transom, he said to start with the bare original glass and add a layer of chopped mat and resin, then a piece of marine ply, then another layer of chopped mat and resin, and another layer of marine ply, then the same again with a final two layers of chopped mat. He was under the weather and we were pushing the 5 o'clock whistle, so we cut the call short and will pick up tomorrow ... do we typically do a 3-layer ply transom? I only recall seeing 2 layers of 3/4, usually with only resin between, cannot recall anyone doing theirs like a fiberglass lasagna ..
What's your take? There is a supplier in Des Moines that will have marine ply - I can get it starting at 1/8" up to 3/4". They won't ship & it's a two hour drive each way. Since my splash well ripped off, I'll be making a new one & can accommodate a slightly thicker transom - as long as I don't get so thick the motor clamps won't slip on.
-
I'm not Jerry, but the description of the transom lay-up the fellow described to you is exactly the way I do a transom, and don't worry about using marine grade wood for a transom, it's all incased with glass from the begining of the construction, ya don't need to waste that money or time.
-
Yeah Dan, the 1 place we can get Marine ply is pricey. I would just wrap it all up in fiberglass and save the money and hassle of getting marine ply.
-
OK. I'll go with regular ply.
What thickness for the transom? 3 pieces of 1/2" with the mat in between?
-
I use cabnet grade hardwood ply, you can go as much as 2 1/4 total thickness max, but 2" is plenty, better check out the mount depth for the outboards.
-
Why the hardwood ply? Other than it seems to be more dimensionally stable sitting at the lumber yard?
I suppose I ought to dig out my transom and see how deep it goes before I buy anything - I've got several pieces of 24 x 48 birch ply at the house. All 3/4, though.
-
I don't use birch because the birch laminate don't seem to be adhered as well as the oak laminate, and the oak is more porus than the birch, adhere's better. The hardwood ply has cores than osb, or marine ply, and it's smooth on both sides, less voids.
-
I use 2 pieces 3/4 (normally cut from 1 4X8 piece. laminating resin ONLY but I run a couple screws in from each side to suck it all together. Anything more than standard exterior grade plywood is just a "feel good" there's no more strength, only more money. I also give the new plywood a couple coats of resin and acetone to seal everything up and make it easier to bond. You need mat between the outer shell and plywood wet the mat down again laminating resin (no wax) and pull push clamp and if you can screw from the outside (screw holes fill easy) the transom (after drying) can be tabbed in with normal glass and then a layer of glass over the transom and a layer bi-axial glass/with mat over everything. I use my stapler to "nail down" the glass and then soak it down with surface resin (or add 3% wax to laminating resin) roll it down to get it flat and the air out and let it dry. Tomas (toe-mas) is a nice kid, but mostly "book learned"
That's just my way. No book learnin' here.
-
Teardown complete. The deck is hanging by tie downs from the carport. The hull is empty, except for the ski locker and floor. All old (bottom half wet) foam is gone. Transom is cut out, corner boxes cut out, vertical sides cut out, bulkhead (R + L) cut out. The glassed in wood blocking for the tie-down u-bolts at the stern was the consistency of a soggy cigar - they're gone, too. I think I had wiring for a 24 foot boat - it was looped & looped & looped & taped & zip-tied. The short that caused my smoldering at the end of last season melted through my pitot tube in two places. I wouldn't have had a speedometer had I tried to go back out. Plugged up the filter on the shopvac trying to get her cleaned out.
24 x 48 pieces of oak ply were not in great shape at the lumber yard today - there was a lot of curve to those pieces (poor storage). I'll pick up a full sheet of 3/4" for the floor, and another full sheet at 1/2" for the transom & "wings." Have to make arrangements for delivery or transportation for full sheets.
Now I need to get the painted on "waterproofing" off ... thinking about a paint stripper on the grinder ... then a good rough sanding. I'd like to roll the whole thing with a good coat of resin on a roughed-up surface before putting anything new down. Also thinking I'll put in two or three cross members at rub-rail height, set with screws, just to hold the sides of the hull up at their "closed" position while I glass in the new floor - then pull them out before I lower the deck back on.
-
3/4 is a little heavy for the floor
-
Yeah, but nobody stocks 5/8. I could order it, but it's more expensive than 3/4.
-
3/8 or 1/2 at the most. ya gonna drive a truck on it?
-
OK. Express Composites is my new friend.
Chopped Strand and Double Bias Mat for transom, Fiberglass cloth for floor, 3 gallons laminating resin, 2 bottles MEKP. Ordered, paid for, will ship today.
Makes me want to start my own HGTV show - "Boat Crashers" haha
-
It should work, I still like the roving with mat and bi-axial with mat, It's just so easy to work with.
-
Makes me want to start my own HGTV show - "Boat Crashers" haha
That would be a great show! There have been shows like "Pimp my ride" and what not with cars and the History channel does American Renovation. I think you've got a million dollar idea there!
It could expand to other classic resorations too. Old cars, RV's like Airstream's, an old Glastron if they can find one?
I'd DVR it weekly!
-
Josh - I'm right there with you. Make it like Overhaulin' or something similar.
Find people who are in over their heads with their own restorations, bring in a group of guys with tools and experience, knock it out in a week or less.
I'm all for it. Who do we contact? Discovery channel? History? TLC?
-
Who do we contact? Discovery channel? History? TLC?
Heck, all three and see who bites! We've got at least one season of guys that fit that bill right here in our club alone!
Here's the link to pitch to Discovery Communications Producer portal:
https://producers.discovery.com/producersPortal/login.jsf (https://producers.discovery.com/producersPortal/login.jsf)
We could film a motor pull or transom fix, edit it all together and fire off a pitch!
-
Nice ... sounds like fun. We'd have to plan one. A donor boat would be a good place to start ... and then we could auction the boat off for charity. At least the one used for the pitch.
On another note - I got a surprise today. Picked up my oak ply and thought that while I was waiting for other product to arrive, I might as well take up the floor and trace it out. Backed out all the screws ... wondering how in the world he managed to keep the floor down using only 1' screws. There was another floor underneath! SOOOO ... now I have another floor to take out tomorrow.
-
On another note - I got a surprise today. Picked up my oak ply and thought that while I was waiting for other product to arrive, I might as well take up the floor and trace it out. Backed out all the screws ... wondering how in the world he managed to keep the floor down using only 1' screws. There was another floor underneath! SOOOO ... now I have another floor to take out tomorrow.
Ugh!
-
Yikes! Two floors??? I guess they were looking for extra EXTRA solid!
-
That's what I call a "I could choke the Previous Owner!" moment Dan! Just think about how much lighter (and better) your boat is going to be when you're done. ;D
-
You know ... I get really self-conscious about posting things that say "the PO this" and "the PO that."
It's my boat. I haven't had it a year yet. But damn if I'm not motivated to make sure that when I hit the water this summer & something goes wrong - it will be MY fault, not somebody else's.
-
5/8 or 3/4 is what is used mostly around here. My cvx had 1/2 in it so that's what I went with at first. Problem is with only a center stringer you could see the flex in the 1/2 when standing between the stringer and the edge of the floor. I used 5/8 marine that I got a deal on for about $20 more than oak per sheet. I weighed both final pieces and it was less than 3 lbs difference.
Some repair shops around here use PT ply. I can hear Jerry now, NO, NO NO. My neighbor with the Eliminator with the twin 300's that I posted here had his done and they used tongue and groove PT 3/4. Gave him a 5 year full replacement warranty but stated they've been using the PT for 20 years and have yet had a floor needing replacement. They have a source for getting nice PT. Most of what is available to us is usually crap.
Was hoping to take the boat out this weekend but 70% chance of rain has put a stop to that plan.
-
I also used 3/4" Ply that I sealed up with resin. (Not PT). 1/2" had too much flex over the center tank and I knew wouldn't hold up over time. I wanted something rock solid that would tie everything together and been strong enough for 7 people in the boat.
So...I ended up at 3/4".
Idk Dan...I think you're allowed to vent about the PO's crappy job. You paid for a 'good boat' and got a project boat instead...I'd be more than frustrated.
-
I thought the 1/2" flexed too much as well, I put foam in and glassed it in and it's rock solid now.
-
The strength isn't in the plywood, it's in the fiberglass. I believe the best way to do the job is the cheapest way that won't come back and bite ya in the butt. The bottom line is it's your money and your boat and you have to do what you're comfortable with. It's normal, everybody that does their boat that lasted 40 years uncared for wants to re-engineer it to last a lifetime. If it feels go do it.
-
I've got more experience building houses ... when I do a house floor, it gets a minimum of single sheet 1-1/8" t-n-g ... or I go with two layers of 3/4" t-n-g at opposing 45* angles.
I remember being a teenager and laying two layers on my half pipe ... one running true, the top layer (usually slick masonite) at a 45.
I'm headed down to take some pictures now ... This will show my new floor - the one uncovered under the old floor. Bubbles in the glass tabbing .... sections I can just grab and peel right up.
-
Ok ... I'll post pictures later tonight.
Pulled up the aft section of my surprise floor .... full of great stuff and wet stuff.
The stringers are soaked ... year old yellow pine 1 x's, but wet and swollen.
I've got the pattern for the transom ... traced out 4 times on 1/2" oak ply ... I'll be roughly 2-5/8 thick with splash well. My motor clamps open to 2-7/8. There are some pits in the factory glass I think I'll fill first, before I lay up mat & resin for the transom.
The bilge was only on the starboard side of the center stringer ... I've got water on both sides. The drain was a full inch above the low point, so it would always hold water. There is resin cracking and lifting off like candy on a candied apple. It's amazing how much resin was just poured in. I've got layers of resin better than 1/2" thick.
-
Sounds like quite a mess. I was wondering what they had run screws into. Now I know...the original floor! :o
How are you supporting the hull with the deck removed?
-
Rosscoe .... The bunks of the trailer happen to sit right on the stepped portion of the hull that the floor sits on. The upper portion has relaxed, and I'm ok with that for now as I am pulling things out. Before ANYTHING goes back in, I have measured the width of the deck at 4 points. I used those measurements to cut a piece of wooden closet rod for each point. I will place a screw through the hull where the rub rail would attach and secure it to the ends of the closet rod (no doubt it will require someone on each side of the hull pushing together. Then, I'll pull a chalk line from the center of the bow to the center of the transom and measure each "half" of the closet rods. If I've got the same measurement on each side of the chalk line, I will assume I'm not twisted. If one side is longer than the other, I'll have to push that section of the hull in. I may have to lay another piece of wood (a very straight piece) across the center like a spine and ribs. That's the plan, anyway. It will look like an obstacle course as I work on it, but I'll get my floor in and some lateral support pieces cut. Then I'll put the deck back on before I put the lateral supports in (like the bulkhead). I can lay on my belly and glass those in. At least this way they're glassed in with the deck in place & if I remove the deck it should hold it's shape a little better than now.
-
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-11111303.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-11111327.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-11111815.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12094431.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12115806.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12115821.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12115944.jpg)
-
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12115950.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12120619.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12121516.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12122330.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12131421.jpg)
-
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12141530.jpg)
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w361/wetraider/2012-05-12142558.jpg)
-
Dan - Just linked in the full size photos from your Photobucket account.
-
Thanks, Doran. The descriptions don't migrate, so you'll have to click on the larger image to get the description ... if you want/need one.
-
Ah...got it. I *assumed* you were still having Server Errors when attaching photos like we talked on Friday...so I thought just linking in the full IMG url would bypass that.
We do have a forum limit on the number of photos per thread...so I was wondering if that wasn't the issue earlier...
-
Yes, I was still having problems.
I tried attaching 4 images with a text description & I kept getting "Internal Server Error" messages.
This morning, I tried again and had exceeded the size limit. I figured photo bucket was the easiest shortcut.
I haven't been as motivated today ... my work area is messy. I've spent more time cleaning things up, than tearing things down. One more trash bag and the ski locker comes out.