Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rosscoe on February 10, 2013, 04:08:05 PM
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I have been researching engine harnesses for quite some time and thought I finally found what I needed at E Basic Power. Supposed to be a "typical Mercrusier style" harness. They sell both the "engine" side and "boat" side. I also stumbled across a couple of wiring diagrams/schematics that I thought would help me and do somewhat but after spending some time marking my existing wires today, I see that the color code is not and exact cross. I can easily follow them from the plug to the alternator etc.
Couple if issues.
1. The only reason I bought both the boat side and engine side was to guarantee they would mate AND because according to the way they are sold, the gender of the plug and recpt are reversed on mine. Due to the max wire length of 6 feet on the motor side, I figured I should switch it which of course means changing the boat side too. As sold they list the "motor" side as having the female receptacle pins with the males being on the boat side. OK so change both and splice in the boat side.
My concern are the wire color and gauge differences. Both the new and old have 10 awg black and red. Good. My old one has a 10 awg orange that runs to the alternator. According to the wiring charts I found, they list the "Exciter" on the alternator as being Purple. The purple wire on the new harness looks to be 18 awg.
2. On the boat side of my old harness there are two purple/violet wires coming out of the plug and are spiced together into one wire and continue into the harness. One the wiring list I have it says the purple is to "ignition on key switch and gauges. On a related (I thought) diagram I found it says the purple on the engine side goes to the coil. I'm confused. Especially about the missing 10 gauge orange I currently have going to my alternator and this conficting info about the purple wire. Trying to go by what I have there currently isnt much help since it was so rotten and discolored, when I spliced it in way back when, just to get things running it doesn't really help. I used the closest color I could find and some of the old ones were really hard to tell what they once were.
I've attached the 2 docs I found but of course my boat is OLD so it doesnt match. It should BASICALLY be the same I would think????
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This is a little closer to what I have except I removed the external voltage regulator when I change the alternator and thermostat housing where it used to mount.
Shows the orange wire to the alt but my new harness doesn't have it. I suppose I could bypass the main plug but that kind of defeats the purpose. I found this by searching OMC wiring diagram because the old beast was painted OMC colors despite the fact it was a Chev 350
Here is what I currently have on the "boat" side and I think its safe to assume the discolored rotten stuff on the motor side is the same.
10 awg blk
10 awg red
10 awg org
2 violet 18 awg?
1 brown
1 gray
1 Light blue
1 white
New harness's
10 awg blk
10 awg red
18 awg? lt blue
18 awg brown/wht
18 awg yellow/red
18 awg tan
18 awg violet
18 awg gray
18 awg tan/blue
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From what I remember a large ga. orange wire from the alternator is the charging output that goes to the starter's battery wire lug. A large ga. red (or red/purple) wire from there would normally go to the harness plug to go up to the ignition key and provide the power for the gauges and ignition when the key is turned on. A light ga. purple wire returning to the engine from the key through the harness becomes the power feed for the ignition system and the exciter for the alternator. The old style wiring that used an ammeter in the gauge cluster used the large ga orange wire up through the harness. So if you're converting to newer style harness you have to eliminate the ammeter wiring and change it to a standard volt gauge.
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The large orange definitely is on both sides of the plug in this case. I guess tomorrow I'll label everything on the motor, disconnect it and ohm it back to the plug. I can not see and identification as to pin out but I'm not too sure what that will get me really.
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My V174 originally had an engine were the alternator had the external regulator and used the ammeter wiring. With the replacement 1980's engine I also replaced the harness with the newer style wiring configuration. I kept all the original gauges and keyswitch except for the ammeter which I swapped out for a style-matching volt gauge. When wiring up everything behind the panel I first concentrated on getting the key switch and neutral safety in the control box wired to the ignition and starter. Then I ran power & ground to all the gauges from the key switch (purple) and main ground bus (black). Lastly I used the remaining wires from the harness to connect to their respective gauges. Luckily there were only 3 to worry about - temperature, oil pressure, and tachometer. I'm not using a trim gauge so I just tucked that wire out of the way, the volt and fuel gauges get their power right from the key switch and don't need any other wires from the engine harness.
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Very practical way to go about it. I am planning on not touching anything under the dash. The "pigtail" as they called it could be bought in many different lengths, the shortest and cheapest being about 3 feet so my plan was to just splice that in. All the rotten stuff is on the motor side...at least the first inch out of the plug. I changed everything to the motor from that point but I can not leave it that way, hence the new harness. There really arent that many wires on the motor BUT if the wire colors dont match the other part of the harness, thats where it gets messed up. Speaking of external voltage regulator, I still dont know that I did that correctly either. The external reg. had 3 wires coming out. Black went directly to ground, green and brown. I reconnected the original orange to the new alternator and grounded the green to the alt case. Nothing smoked yet. :D
My biggest concern is the change in wire gauge (the orange one) Why couldnt it be at least match for match on the wire colors??? I know there are one or two I wont be using either. One was for some type of alarm and trim.
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My biggest concern is the change in wire gauge (the orange one) Why couldnt it be at least match for match on the wire colors??? I know there are one or two I wont be using either. One was for some type of alarm and trim.
The old style harness with the large ga. orange wire needed to be large because all the charging current was running up to the ammeter. From there it would return to the battery through the red/purple wire. The wire gauges needed to be large to handle all the current. By going through the ammeter first it measured your positive or negative charge rate or power usage from the alternator. The newer harnesses don't provide for the use of an ammeter so since their discontinuance all the output from the alternator would go directly to the battery via the main lug on the starter. With the ammeter eliminated the wire gauges need not be so large because it wasn't necessary send large amounts of current to the instrument panel anymore, everything there has low current draw.
Speaking of external voltage regulator, I still dont know that I did that correctly either. The external reg. had 3 wires coming out. Black went directly to ground, green and brown. I reconnected the original orange to the new alternator and grounded the green to the alt case. Nothing smoked yet.
If you're replacement alternator has an internal regulator you probably don't need the external module anymore. I think the green and brown wires on the external regulator are an input and an output (unregulated voltage in, regulated voltage out). If you have one of those connected to ground then you'll either have a short circuit to ground or no effect at all, depends on which wire is on ground and which is being fed power from the alternator. If I understand that old wiring diagram you provided the way that regulator works is it takes the voltage supplied at the key from the purple wires and regulates it out through the light green wire to the field in the alternator.
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Sounds like I still may have issues with the alternator wiring as well. Since it was a single terminal alternator and had a green ground screw on the case, and taking the regulator out of the picture I assumed the green screw needed to be grounded but now that I think of it, the alternator is already grounded by being bolted to the block and as wired, there is no complete "circuit" with only one wire running to the alt. Am I following you? Considering there is only one terminal on the new alternator, how does that work?
So the issue with the large orange wire has to do with the use of an ammeter versus volt meter?
Wasn't planning on changing any gauges. Whats the upside of swapping out to a volt meter?
This is turning into a bigger mess then I expected. Not sure where to go from here.
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a single wire alt only has a battery connection, it just charges when it is spinning.
as far as the ammeter goes, a voltmeter gives a better indication of the condition of the electrical system/battery, the ammeter only tells if the battery is charging or discharging. you would need to add the 10GA orange wire to retain the ammeter.
i would install a volt meter.
i may have one from the cobalt doner, i would have to check.
if you want a hand sorting out the wiring i could come up and give you a hand some evening this week.
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Thanks Joe
I appreciate the offer. Let me take a look at things again today and maybe do some more labeling. This fiasco kept me awake most of the night.
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I assumed the green screw needed to be grounded but now that I think of it, the alternator is already grounded by being bolted to the block and as wired, there is no complete "circuit" with only one wire running to the alt. Am I following you? Considering there is only one terminal on the new alternator, how does that work?
The "single wire" alternator is a self exciting, internally regulated alternator. I have one on my engine and it works fine. Yes, it is grounded through the engine block but they still provide a ground screw to connect a wire for ground because just simply bolting it may not provide enough ground if there's rust or corrosion between the bolted surfaces, especially if they are loose from vibration.
So the issue with the large orange wire has to do with the use of an ammeter versus volt meter?
Wasn't planning on changing any gauges. Whats the upside of swapping out to a volt meter?
An ammeter measures a rate of charge or lack of charge by reading the direction of current flow. There's a scale on the gauge marked positive towards the right and negative to the left with zero in the center. As the meter deflects to the right of zero when the engine is running it's registering a positive flow of current to the battery. If the meter moves to the left of zero that means either too much power is being used or current flow is coming from the battery instead of the alternator.
A volt meter registers the amount available voltage. A static battery should show around 12 volts (engine not running), and with the engine running should show closer to 14 volts. If the alternator wasn't charging then you would see a drop in voltage below 12 or 11 volts as the engine or accessories use power from the battery rather than from the alternator. Personally I think the volt gauge is a better indicator of battery and alternator health and is easier to understand.
Single-wire alternator:
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Engine%20Installation/IMG_0170.jpg)
Matching volt meter between the key switch and tachometer:
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Folder/IMG_0649_zps56353f3e.jpg)
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So did you externally ground your alternator? You just have a single wire to it and do you know what color it is off hand? That is what I meant when I said I grounded it. From that external screw to the block so in that case it wasn't a short. The remaining wire that came from the external regulator was brown and I just put some shrink tubing on it. Does this sound ok so far? It may have been purple actually. That is what that schematic shows. Hard to tell on this old discolored stuff.
If I swap out to a volt meter, then this will eliminate the need for the heavy gauge orange wire, correct?
I'm understanding it more now. I kinda slow. lol
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So did you externally ground your alternator?
After looking at my own picture I don't think I grounded my alternator, I see the vacant grounding screw right on top just underneath the hose connection. I really should add a black or green ground wire from there to a bolt on the engine block just to be proper.
You just have a single wire to it and do you know what color it is off hand?
My engine originally had a stator charging system like an outboard engine. I removed the factory stator & regulator charging system because it was junk and installed a conversion kit which included the single wire alternator, mounting bracket and pulley. I installed a 10ga red wire from the output terminal on the back of the alternator to a 90 amp fuse/link on the main battery cable lug on the starter.
The remaining wire that came from the external regulator was brown and I just put some shrink tubing on it.
With an internally regulated alternator you don't need the external regulator. I would disconnect it, remove it and store it with the old alternator.
If I swap out to a volt meter, then this will eliminate the need for the heavy gauge orange wire, correct?
Yes.
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yeah I already took out the old regulator when I added the new thermostat housing and alternator.
I just got done plowing the driveway so now I can get back out to the shop and maybe make some headway on this.
Thanks for all the help once again. I am sure there will be more questions.
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For the most part, I got the engine side of the harness in except I haven't decided what I am going to do about the ammeter/volt meter situation yet. I looked under the dash and the ammeter distributes power to everything else and would require more rewiring which I will likely do at some point but not right now.
Basically, I followed all the existing wires from the main plug to their destination. labeled and matched wire colors as close a I could to the new harness.
Also, from what is left wire wise in the harness, I am not sure what would go to the alternator. All that is left is a tan/blue that the chart says is for an Audio Warning Buzzer and a brown/white that the chart says is for a trim sender. That leaves nothing for the alternator.
Rich, you said the new one wire alternators are "self exciting" On the wiring color codes chart posted, it say the purple wire is the "exciter" so I would think that would not be the one for the alternator?
On the schematic it shows a purple/black going to the ballast resistor. Being that there was nothing else similar, I used that purple one. I hate using two different sets of documentation but if I dont have the exact one, I have to wing it somewhat.
I do have a question about the "slave solenoid" It is one of two things left on the engine side. Currently there are 4 wires going to it. 2 heavy gauge Red wires coming from the starter solenoid and one from the starter, a black ground and a white going to the main plug. The white is a piece I patched in a long time ago because I could not tell what the original color was. Hardin Marines wire color chart says a Yellow/Red should go to the starter slave solenoid. There is a yellow/red in the new harness. Of course it conflicts with the schematic which does show a red from the battery, a white/red from the starter solenoid and a ground but I have 4 wires going to it. Whats your best guess on what color that 4 wire should be? Should I just use the yellow/red as stated in the Wire color code list? The gauge seems a little light duty to me. IT might be 14 gauge.
The pic is from the old nasty motor when I was patching stuff in to get it running.
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For the most part, I got the engine side of the harness in except I haven't decided what I am going to do about the ammeter/volt meter situation yet. I looked under the dash and the ammeter distributes power to everything else and would require more rewiring which I will likely do at some point but not right now
The way I understand your OMC wiring diagram is the orange wire coming up the harness to your ammeter also goes to the key switch to provide power for everything else via the purple wires. That feed can be substituted with the red battery wire that is going to the other side of the ammeter.
Rich, you said the new one wire alternators are "self exciting" On the wiring color codes chart posted, it say the purple wire is the "exciter" so I would think that would not be the one for the alternator?
If you had the normal alternator then yes, but your one-wire alternator doesn't require the exciter wire so you can leave it disconnected. Purple from your engine-end harness goes to one side of the ballast resistor, the purple/black wires coming off the other side of the ballast go to the ignition coil and starter solenoid.
The white wire going to the slave solenoid is your start trigger from the keyswitch which is equivalent to the newer yellow/red color code. The white/red wire going from the slave to the starter solenoid is what triggers your starter.
As for what to connect to the alternator it should be a large gauge red or orange wire from the output terminal to the main battery lug on the starter solenoid, probably one of the large red wires already there.
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The way I understand your OMC wiring diagram is the orange wire coming up the harness to your ammeter also goes to the key switch to provide power for everything else via the purple wires. That feed can be substituted with the red battery wire that is going to the other side of the ammeter.
That would be cool if I eliminate the ammeter and just change the power source for the other gauges from orange to red. To add more confusion, under the dash there is another plug. I suppose the built the dash assembly and plugged it into a harness that runs back to the engine, but wouldn't you know it, some of the wire colors change again! I can see how power and ground is daisy chained under there so that shouldn't be too difficult.
If you had the normal alternator then yes, but your one-wire alternator doesn't require the exciter wire so you can leave it disconnected. Purple from your engine-end harness goes to one side of the ballast resistor, the purple/black wires coming off the other side of the ballast go to the ignition coil and starter solenoid.
The white wire going to the slave solenoid is your start trigger from the keyswitch which is equivalent to the newer yellow/red color code. The white/red wire going from the slave to the starter solenoid is what triggers your starter.
Good cuz thats about all I got left.
As for what to connect to the alternator it should be a large gauge red or orange wire from the output terminal to the main battery lug on the starter solenoid, probably one of the large red wires already there.
Unfortunately not. There is nothing from the starter to the alternator directly. I am guessing it is fed back from the ammeter? There are 3 wires on the main starter lug. The main from the battery, one to the slave solenoid and one that goes into the harness and up to the dash.
If I am following you, what you've are saying, it sounds like once I swap out the ammeter for a volt meter, I no longer need the heavy gauge wire under the dash. Remove that and substitute the power it was supplying using the large red, then add a 4th a heavy gauge red or orange to the starter main lug and run that directly to the alternator? Do I have that correct?
You can see the orange in the pic currently running directly from the plug to the alternator
[/quote]
Its sure going to be nice to be rid of this rotten stuff.
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There is nothing from the starter to the alternator directly. I am guessing it is fed back from the ammeter? There are 3 wires on the main starter lug. The main from the battery, one to the slave solenoid and one that goes into the harness and up to the dash.
Correct!
If I am following you, what you've are saying, it sounds like once I swap out the ammeter for a volt meter, I no longer need the heavy gauge wire under the dash. Remove that and substitute the power it was supplying using the large red, then add a 4th a heavy gauge red or orange to the starter main lug and run that directly to the alternator? Do I have that correct?
Now you're catching on! From what I see in your pics this is easy - I see the orange wire, just cut it near the starter and put a large ring terminal on it and connect it to the main lug on the starter. Leave the other end of it connected to the alternator. You should probably install a 90 amp safety fuse in between though, to prevent over charge or damage from an unexpected short. Sierra makes them for the one-wire alternator conversion kits and I have one on my setup as well. See the link below:
(http://www.marinepartssource.com/products/s188220.jpg)
http://www.marinepartssource.com/newdetails.asp?mfgno=18-8220&pnumber=S188220&mfg=SIERRA&desc=90%20Amp%20Fuse%20Kit (http://www.marinepartssource.com/newdetails.asp?mfgno=18-8220&pnumber=S188220&mfg=SIERRA&desc=90%20Amp%20Fuse%20Kit)
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That looks slick.
Unfortunately, when I uncovered the existing orange wire to the alternator, most of the insulation cracked off and exposed the nice oxidized green bare wire underneath so it has to go. There is something encased in rubber in the wire to the Alt. Not sure if its a fuse or resistor or what. I'll should probably open that up and see what is inside, otherwise I'll be splicing in a new wire from there to the starter. I'd like to avoid as many splices as possible however. If its a fuse, I dont know how they'd expect you to ever change it since its encased.
Where would you install this fuse? Directly to the alt? or off the starter? Not sure how big that hole is and if that is what it is meant for.
90 amp? The wire would melt first I would think. 10awg wire must be good for about 30 amps?
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They are meant to go on the starter. You'd slip the tang with the hole onto the main starter lug, then the other wires followed by washer and nut. You would attach the alternator output lead to the smaller stud terminal locked on with its own washer and nut and then cover it with the boot.
If your orange wire has a built-in in-line fuse then perhaps OMC would have wanted you to replace the whole wire if the fuse was bad.
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I'm ordering one today.
I'll open up that cocoon and see whats in there.
Rich, you are an invaluable resource to this club. If you can ever drag that beautiful V174 to Red Wing, I owe you a pile of beverages of your choice. Its a long haul, I know. Bring your RC plane too!
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I'm ordering one today.
I'll open up that cocoon and see whats in there.
Rich, you are an invaluable resource to this club. If you can ever drag that beautiful V174 to Red Wing, I owe you a pile of beverages of your choice. Its a long haul, I know. Bring your RC plane too!
He has a standing offer to use my boat at Red Wing, he basically consulted on it for free, and it wouldn't be on the water without him...he just needs to get to MN, the registration fee is on me as well.
His willingness to share & help keeps us on the water!
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Thanks, one day I may have to make that trip. In the meantime I was trying to come up with this pic - it's a blown-up shot of the 90 amp fuse link connected to my starter, it's the best shot I have.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Folder/IMG_0668a_zpsd6745f65.jpg)
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So what am I missing about the 90 amps? The alternator is charging the battery through this circuit and this fuse is only fusing that, correct? I looked at a chart and something like 2 awg would be required for 90 amps.
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You got me on that one! ;D
Our alternators have a 70 amp output rating, meaning if that much power is required then they are capable of producing it. It doesn't mean they will always be pushing out that much power. It's there for protection incase there's a surge from a direct short to ground where 90 amps can easily be breached. Tilt & trim pumps can draw a lot of power and are usually fused with a 110 amp link. Under normal usage they will not draw that much power but in the event something shorts out the fuse is there to break the circuit to protect everything else.
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Thinking about it more, if there was a short in the alternator itself then your battery is definitely capable of producing more than 100 amps to break that 90 amp fuse, so the protection works both ways.
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So what am I missing about the 90 amps? The alternator is charging the battery through this circuit and this fuse is only fusing that, correct? I looked at a chart and something like 2 awg would be required for 90 amps.
First i would like to complement you, Rich on you're ability articulate your vast knowledge on the forum, i have so much trouble putting information i have into words.
as far as the wire gauge thing goes, you are looking at ampacity tables for electrical wiring.
they take into account the wires being installed in a raceway, over a longer distance and a continuous load. the end result is heating of the wire breaking down the insulation over time.
a 10 gauge a few feet long can handle 100A for a short time (say 1 minute) with minimal heating.
the rubber item may be a splice to a fuseable link (common in older cars)
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ok I wont worry about.
Thanks guys.
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Yesterday I removed the old alternator wire and it was in very poor shape. I also attempted to see what was encased in what can best be described as petrified dinosaur poop. I had to partially crush it in my vise, then chisel away at it. It didn't survive so well so I couldn't read anything on it if there was anything. It must be a fuse. My meter read .1 ohms so it wasn't adding any resistance to the line.
Rich, when we talked about adding that 90 amp fuse (which I ordered) to the starter lug to feed the alternator, that situation was if/when I change the ammeter to a volt meter. Since I am not doing that immediately and will continue to have the large orange wire running up under the dash, replacing the wire to the alternator will need to be fused. Can I use that new one temporarily by putting in line or should I get an inline one that I splice in and if so, should that be 90 amps as well?
I am sure I'll be changing to the volt meter but right now, I want to finish this part. I dislike making a lot of changes at once (which I have already surpassed) without running the motor. It makes trouble shooting that much tougher.
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Yesterday I removed the old alternator wire and it was in very poor shape. I also attempted to see what was encased in what can best be described as petrified dinosaur poop. I had to partially crush it in my vise, then chisel away at it. It didn't survive so well so I couldn't read anything on it if there was anything. It must be a fuse. My meter read .1 ohms so it wasn't adding any resistance to the line.
According to your OMC wiring diagram it would be a fuse.
Can I use that new one temporarily by putting in line or should I get an inline one that I splice in and if so, should that be 90 amps as well?
Of course you can use the new fuse, any protection is better than none at all. I don't know where you'll find a 90 amp in-line fuse similar to the one that was on the old wire but the Sierra bolt-on fuse block will be just as good. It doesn't matter if you're changing out the ammeter for a voltmeter at this time, adding the fuse is a safety measure regardless. If you so desire (and as Joe suggested earlier) you can keep the old ammeter if you run a separate (outside your new harness) dedicated large-gauge orange wire from the alternator up to the ammeter and leave all the other wiring alone. Your new fuse can probably be bolted to the output stud of your alternator and then you connect the orange wire to the fuse. Or use a screw and nut and connect it in similar manner as the old busted fuse.
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Yes, bolting it right to the alternator would be clean and yup I'll bypass the plug and continue the orange wire up front as is. I may put some kind of plug there in case I pull the motor before I change to a volt meter.
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I would also get some small diameter split-loom and slip it around the orange wire, especially around the engine so it doesn't chafe or melt against the engine block or connected metal bracketry creating a short circuit. I did that with my alternator wire as well to protect it, see the pic indicated with the yellow arrows.
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Yup, I did that to almost all the wiring on the engine when I did all my patch work before. I'll be putting it back on all of it again. Safer and looks neater.
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Cool, looks like you're on top of things. ;)
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Very clean and professional. It looks like you could eat off it if necessary. :D
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Thanks, but I think the camera makes it look good, either that or adds 10 pounds, I forget which.
I just found this on-line and thought you'd find it a good read:
http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Pages%2049-51%20AlternatorTechTips.pdf (http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Pages%2049-51%20AlternatorTechTips.pdf)
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I think thats TV cameras. ;D
I'll check it out. Thanks
I took a couple of pics of the rear of the ammeter. I hate continually adding wires onto gauge terminals so when I added and electric compressor for the horn (which didnt do crap) I added an electric horn and 12v socket for spot lights, cig lighter, I added a small terminal block I got from work. Not sure how much current it can take.
I'll be spending more time under there for sure.
Thats the key switch right under the ammeter.
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Notice the large white wire on the ammeter. It goes to the plug under there, then changes color or gauge! WTH?
I need to see if that is the small gauge white that WAS on the slave solenoid.
I also labeled all the fuse holders externally so I won't need a magnifying glass if one burns out.
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The way I see it is the white and the large orange wire are the same, the red wire is the return to the main starter lug and battery. The added accessories you mentioned shouldn't be a problem regarding current, they're low power items.
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that terminal strip is rated for around 10 amps
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Thanks, but I think the camera makes it look good, either that or adds 10 pounds, I forget which.
I just found this on-line and thought you'd find it a good read:
http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Pages%2049-51%20AlternatorTechTips.pdf (http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Pages%2049-51%20AlternatorTechTips.pdf)
Some of that hurt my brain.
My alternator looks like the one identified as "Delco self exciting style
fits mercruiser and omc"
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I've got most of both halves of the harness in as of yesterday. It was nice to have both halves of the old one out on the bench and actually use my meter to determine what was really what. Since they were so rotten on one side, I guessed (wrong mostly) when I patched in before. I am feeling more confident now that I've gotten it right after all these discussions and matching things up across the schematic and wiring chart.
I suppose I could wait until I get to this point, but when I do switch to a volt meter and reconnect the large orange wire to the starter, how will the volt meter get information? Right off a "hot" under the dash I am guessing or will I need to run another wire back? Guessing not.
No wiring today. Dead back and knees from leaning over the motor for days. Went for a ride for the first time since 2011 I think. Beautiful out. I dressed too warm though but there was hardly anyone out, of course.
Smell like 2 cycle exhaust. Better shower before the woman gets home!
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I suppose I could wait until I get to this point, but when I do switch to a volt meter and reconnect the large orange wire to the starter, how will the volt meter get information? Right off a "hot" under the dash I am guessing or will I need to run another wire back?
The volt meter will only need to be connected to gauge power (purple & black) and fed like all the other gauges from the key switch.
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Wait, that sounds too easy. I probably don't have any purple/black. I'm going to start hunting for a suitable gauge.
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Not purple/black, purple AND black. Purple 12v+ from the key switch and black ground. You can tap off them from any of the other gauges in the chain.
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Not purple/black, purple AND black. Purple 12v+ from the key switch and black ground. You can tap off them from any of the other gauges in the chain.
OK. Those I have. :D
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My 90 amp fuse showed up a couple of days ago and I mounted directly to the alternator for now. One concern I have is when I switch to a volt meter and move the fuse to the starter, there isn't much room left on that main lug. Only about 1 -1 1/2 threads left on the bolt. There are currently 3 things on there now. One lug to the harness (to the dash) one to the slave cylinder and the battery.
That's an old pic. Much cleaner now but just as much stuff on that stud. Not sure if I can relocate or tap off somewhere else for one of them?
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If there isn't enough room on the starter then just leave it on the alternator. One thing though, just make sure the metal tang on the fuse isn't making contact with the metal casing of the alternator, otherwise that would create a short circuit if they touch. If you have to grind down the sharp corners of the tang so there's enough clearance between.
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Yea, there is a rubber bumper type thing holding the fuse away from the Alt housing. Its still a bit close for comfort so I may do something else too. Where I put it is the only place it would lay flat.
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Yesterday I ground off more of the tabs on the fuse as Rich suggested. They were a little too close for comfort and there was enough slop in the mounting hole that it possibly could have been pushed back or bumped and it would contact the alternator case. A little more clearance helps with the peace of mind.
Rich
I saw in another thread when you guys were talking about electronic ignition conversions and connecting to the correct side of the ballast resistor. I guess I am not sure which is the correct side but after rewiring things, I made a crude schematic and after looking at it compared to the supplied instructions that came with my Mallory Unilite, it appears I've got the red wire going to the wrong side.
Do you think this is going to cause a problem? Am I going to have to move just that one red wire? I guess at the time, before the rewiring, I wasn't sure what was coming from what. Now I know but didnt look at Unilites schematic until after. >:(
Also, generally I think using larger wire then necessary is good but in this case I am not sure due to the resistance issue. All I had for purple wire was 12 awg and need a piece to go from the B resistor to the + side of the coil. Ok? Not ok?
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Looks good to me.
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Ok good. You had mentioned the voltage being higher on one side then the other. I'm good without having to re-do it, thats for sure.
Now that I looked at it AGAIN, it does match Unilites wiring.
Thanks
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Mo questions Rich.
I replaced my ammeter today with a volt meter so I don't need that additional orange high current wire running up there. So back near the starter I cut the large orange wire that was going non stop from the alternator to the ammeter and put some shrink tubing on it. As we discussed, I should now just connect that orange to the main starter lug.
Up front I poked around with my meter and verified that in fact, the large orange wire changed to white on the other side of the under dash plug. That white used to go to the ammeter along with 3 fused reds that fed the switch, the main red from the harness/Bat and large ground. I should only need power and ground to the volt meter, correct? Obviously I need power for everything else AND I think the Main Red Battery wire should be fused. My plan is to put in a heavier duty terminal block and run the mains there, then branch out. I dislike all that daisy chaining but may not be able to get away from all of it. Depends on the terminal block I end up getting.
So my questions are buried in my ramblings. Guess what I am asking is:
1. I should cut the orange from the now fused alternator and attach directly to the starter?
2. The large white wire under the dash should now be useless? You mentioned before that the orange and white might be one in the same. I see what you mean now.
3. Volt meter should just require a (smaller gauge) hot and ground (and power for the light)?
4. What would you recommend the main power feed be fused at?
As it stands now, the switches are all that are fused. Blower motor-10 amps, Bilge pump-15 amps and lights-20 amps
When I get things more cleaned up, I'll need to verify the current wires at the ignition switch need to stay the way they are or if I can clean them up. Actually I just looked at my sketch, the old main that was on the ammeter used to feed the ignition switch so I'll have to change that and supply power from whatever terminal block I get.
Anything sound wrong?
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1. I should cut the orange from the now fused alternator and attach directly to the starter?
Yes
2. The large white wire under the dash should now be useless? You mentioned before that the orange and white might be one in the same. I see what you mean now.
Correct
3. Volt meter should just require a (smaller gauge) hot and ground (and power for the light)?
Yes, but your hot wire has to come from the key switch or any of the hot wires powering the other gauges, usually purple colored. Keep the gauges daisy chained because they are all powered from off the keyswitch.
4. What would you recommend the main power feed be fused at?
Your main fuse should probably be no less than 30 amps.
As it stands now, the switches are all that are fused. Blower motor-10 amps, Bilge pump-15 amps and lights-20 amps
I don't know why you have a 20 amp fuse on the lights, it's probably overkill so a 7.5 or 10 amp fuse would be sufficient.
the old main that was on the ammeter used to feed the ignition switch so I'll have to change that and supply power from whatever terminal block I get.
The red main wire in your harness becomes the replacement for the orange (turned white) that you're removing.
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All sounds good. Yes I thought it was peculiar that the lights had the largest fuse of the three. I'll down size it especially seeing that the gauge lights at least in the case of the tach, have what appears to be 22 awg wire.
I plan on adding/changing my terminal block to something that can handle more current today. Would you hook the mains there, then run power to the ignition switch? The lugs on the ignition are fairly small so I'd rather not connect those 10 awg wires there.
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Would you hook the mains there, then run power to the ignition switch? The lugs on the ignition are fairly small so I'd rather not connect those 10 awg wires there.
Yes you can do that. But I probably wouldn't use smaller than 12ga to go from the terminal block to the key switch. Remember that power feed is not only for the gauges but goes all the way back to the engine for the ignition system.
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OK I'll stay with 10-12 gauge for the main feeds.
Thanks again.
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Rich is the man! So much knowledge and so helpful.
Ross - Your going to be the resident MNCGOA marine wiring expert when your all done with this project!
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HA HA ...
My CV will need some wiring Ross ...
Should be easy after what your going thru !
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Kip, I don't think so. It will still be Rich. ;D
Unfortunately, my memory retention is pretty short. If I mess with something long enough, some will stick.
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I put my new volt meter in the other day, hence the under dash wiring it started. Its about as close to the originals I could find but it doesn't bother me. Now I want to replace them all! However, they are mostly plastic now. It weighs about 1/3 the old one. Hey, weight reductions is good though. I've probably added 5 pounds worth of cable ties.