Author Topic: Wheelie Beast has an issue  (Read 7252 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Plugcheck

  • Donate members
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3268
Wheelie Beast has an issue
« on: August 12, 2014, 11:14:47 AM »
My wife and I had a chance to perform some final testing before taking the Z up to Red Wing.   Most everything is working well; however, one nagging issue remains.  The Z has a tough time getting on plane.  It’s certainly not for lack of power.   I changed the prop from a 21 since I could bang the rev limiter at Rathbun, to a 25p prop of similar design, stainless, Mercruiser, not exactly certain which model but I could post a pic later.   When I go to accelerate out of the hole, the weight transfers to the stern and a wheelie occurs.  With the 21p prop I could simply apply more throttle to “jump over the bubble” but the 25p will cavitate when I apply more power.  It seems to do best with drive all the way down, any tilt up only magnifies the wheelie.  Halfway trimmed up, it feels like the boat is nearly vertical.  When I finally give up a planing attempt, I wait for the wave to catch up, then apply throttle when the wave catches the stern and then it will pop up and go on plane.   Goofy sensation for certain.    At this point I am considering moving as much weight forward as possible, batteries, anchor, etc….
BTW, the Z does well at speed, hit 65mph, but have not seen the RPM end yet, so no idea if 25p is big enough.   The rev limit is set to 5800 and I did not hit that. The look of concern on my brides face told me not to press the craft any faster than that.  Kind of a “God I hope my husband knows what he is doing” kind of look.   Anyone else see that look from their passenger?

Maybe some good campfire fodder for Red Wing.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline fireman24mn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2060
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2014, 12:00:44 PM »
I my no prop master. But there are so many variations that are out there and each one does something a little different. There will no doubt be lots of props at Redwing. I will bring all the ones I have with just for people to try if they would like. I have a few aluminium ones and one stainless. I tried many props on my 18 when I had it. There were some that just didnt work at all and others worked ok. One prop might work great on the same make and model next to you but not on yours because of different HP or mods that you have done.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Full Resto complete
1976 CV-16 V8 Resto in progress
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline 75starflight

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3519
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2014, 12:22:14 PM »
Mike, I will have my 21p laser ii that goes on Phoenix and the 25p laser ii that Rich loaned me you can try.
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline carlsoncvx18

  • Donate members
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1590
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2014, 12:27:24 PM »
i have both a laser II 23 and 25 pitch.

Are you sure that you are getting a full down trim?

I know that U are running a older mercrusier mr or pre alfa that does not allow you to trim to a neg angle as the gen I does.

I am no prop master either but I would try something with a larger diameter and around a 23 pitch to start out with.

« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 12:53:06 PM by carlsoncvx18 »
1987 CVX18.     1968 Glastron alpha sail boat
1977 GT150
1986 CV23
1984 Intimiadator
1981 CV27
1969 V-180 fundeck

Offline dorelse

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5988
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2014, 12:42:15 PM »
The CVZ's are complicated by having all the weight to the rear half of the boat...gas tank in the floor vs. the bow on the CVX's.

I did find that having a 4 blade helped mine quite a bit...if we have a water skier behind the CVZ, I used to have to move people to the bow to redistribute the weight around so mine will climb over the wave and get going.  I don't have to with my 4-Blade composite prop.
1990 Sierra 1700

Offline Jason

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5564
  • 1974 CV16SS, 1986 CV23
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2014, 12:46:06 PM »
That sounds more like a trim issue to me.
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline 75starflight

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3519
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 12:52:45 PM »
I can vouch he was having the same issue at Rathbun and was trimmed all the way down. I think it is just the nature of the beast. It will be interesting to see what my CVZ will do with a Alpha 1 gen 1 with the ability to negative trim. 
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline dorelse

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5988
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 01:00:06 PM »
I can vouch he was having the same issue at Rathbun and was trimmed all the way down. I think it is just the nature of the beast. It will be interesting to see what my CVZ will do with a Alpha 1 gen 1 with the ability to negative trim.

I suspect that's the ultimate fix!
1990 Sierra 1700

Offline Plugcheck

  • Donate members
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3268
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 01:42:07 PM »
     I will check tonight, but I do know that the drive, transom plate, and bell housing are all Alpha 1, Gen 1.   The Gimbal plate, or the outside of the transom item is original from the Z.   I will check to see if the drive can actually go negative, but I was thinking perpendicular to the hull was as down as it could go.   I do have a set of lift arms from a Alpha(XD rams?)   Not certain what would allow/impede  the drive to tuck under negative.   I can say that tilted down to the point of the trim pump bogging yeilds the best launch, any uptilt and its "Wheelie Beast"    Crazy thought, but I do have several of those whale tails from drives, could that help?
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline dorelse

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5988
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 01:49:09 PM »
You need to have the shorter arms mounted to achieve negative trim...
1990 Sierra 1700

Offline 75starflight

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3519
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2014, 02:00:06 PM »
You need to have the shorter arms mounted to achieve negative trim...

If you can get the xd rams to mount you might be able to achieve the negative trim affect.
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline Plugcheck

  • Donate members
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3268
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2014, 02:19:38 PM »
I need to pull the XD rams off the Larsen anyway so I will do that tonight.   Not looking forward to fighting off the Jungle that grew up  around it, but I'm curious to know if that will work.   Thanks all for the advice.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline carlsoncvx18

  • Donate members
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1590
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2014, 02:21:49 PM »
I am not sure but i believe the xd rams will not work with the mr drive as they have a different mount location on the lower unit.

1987 CVX18.     1968 Glastron alpha sail boat
1977 GT150
1986 CV23
1984 Intimiadator
1981 CV27
1969 V-180 fundeck

Offline Plugcheck

  • Donate members
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3268
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2014, 03:29:46 PM »
      Not sure myself, but I will look tonight.  Here is a pic of Wheelie Beast in action, notice the perplexed concern of my passengers!   Credit is due Mrs Dueceman I believe for the photo.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline 75starflight

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3519
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2014, 03:37:06 PM »
That wasn't the worst on on that ride Mike, I think that was the second try there.  ;D
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline fireman24mn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2060
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2014, 04:43:54 PM »
You were not kidding wheelie beast.  I am thinking you may have to go with a 4 blade for more forward thrust to push the bow down.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Full Resto complete
1976 CV-16 V8 Resto in progress
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline Plugcheck

  • Donate members
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3268
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2014, 06:52:25 PM »
OK, did some checking.   I waded through the jungle, looked at the XD rams, they do appear to mount somewhat differently, so I may wait for winter to change out the whole assembly.  Curious though, I disconnected my current rams, and the drive does not tilt in much further.   Using the pump, hull level, I measured 3 degrees negative trim.   Not certain if the other mount would provide more.   The Prop p/n  Quicksilver 48  11078 A40 25P.    Since the interior, truck, and trailer need attention before the trip, it may simply have to remain wheelie beast for this upcoming outing, that is unless volunteers want to ride up front.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline Hyperacme

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13327
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2014, 07:40:46 PM »
Did a search for "Quicksilver 48  11078 A40 25P".
Not much useful info, some think it's an early Tempest or Laser II.
It uses a hub kit right ?

Try as many props as you can at Red Wing ...

Offline Retro Performance

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1049
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2014, 08:22:51 PM »
I ran that part number into Fond Du Lac..........it supersedes to a 25 pitch Laser II ........currently pending no longer available.........FDL does have more than 10 on hand.......This hull might be interesting with a Torque Shift Prop.........

Offline Hyperacme

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13327
Re: Wheelie Beast has an issue
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2014, 08:48:35 PM »
Helps to have a friend in the business Don ...