Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dorelse on September 02, 2010, 11:31:44 PM
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Ok, looks like the original thread rolled off...shoot!
Chicken or the Egg time question:
My goal before Winter sets in officially is to get the motor in and started...I can clean up the electrical over the winter & early spring.
I'm thinking of putting the motor in and leaving the flotation boxes as is until next fall...they can't do any more harm then they already have, plus they're dried out...core samples are showing them dry.
If I take them out now, my concern is that I'd have to make 'ribs' or something to support the gunwales before the engine could go in for fear the weight of the engine would tweak the upper hull.
Of course...this being a 3 day weekend, I could get a lot done in a short amount of time too...thoughts?
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TIB3ak3lthI/AAAAAAAAFts/idKIwRBJstU/s800/P9020025.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TIB3dedWEKI/AAAAAAAAFtw/bG0XRJWcLDw/s800/P9020026.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TIB3euok3fI/AAAAAAAAFt0/5RX0C7Mq6l0/s800/P9020027.JPG)
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I would think it would be much easier to do that work before the motor goes in, wouldnt you?
Do what you want back there while you have the room?
Maybe take most of it out and leave the part that is perpendicular to the gunwales? I dont know. I honestly do not know what kind of support they offer anyways.
Shorty?
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Andy Edson had some supports put in on his CVX18(Same hull) to stiffen up the hull sides after pulling out the flotation boxes.
If your intent is to get it running and then sell I'd leave the flotation boxes just the way they are. Especially considering they have dried out and aren't rotted. Why make more work for yourself? Removing them won't add a penny to the value of that boat or make it easier to sell.
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If your intent is to get it running and then sell I'd leave the flotation boxes just the way they are. Especially considering they have dried out and aren't rotted. Why make more work for yourself? Removing them won't add a penny to the value of that boat or make it easier to sell.
If I go through the effort of installing the motor in Goldie, get it on the water, then it won't be for sale (probably ever)...so I'm planning to do it 'right'...not 'good enough' to get it to sell.
They probably don't do anything for structure...wrong kind of foam density isn't it...good point Rosscoe..
Allan (Green with Envy), and my 13 yo both think its a good father/son project, so that's what its going to be.
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Got up today and decided to get 'after it'...tore both boxes out.
Well, so much for my core tests...the boxes were soaked at the bottom! I'm glad I took them out...and to be honest...I just can't see putting them back in...there's so much room back there! We'll see after the motor is in...but, I'm glad that's done.
Painted the bilge with Bilgekote:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lGEoHNiBQWI/TIMZOyjymbI/AAAAAAAAHEk/28U9mFVzPmo/s800/P9040026.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mCI9lpJ3v74/TIQf8ktAbgI/AAAAAAAAHEk/vCe00bCLEZg/s800/P9050026.JPG)
Look at all the wet foam:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-1n_g4QmPmRM/TIQf-Mdwf9I/AAAAAAAAHEk/N-2u8NRbVuY/s800/P9050029.JPG)
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and...the other side:
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TIQf_lKF3cI/AAAAAAAAFvU/4UoMvSKRu2s/s800/P9050031.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TIQgAE78hZI/AAAAAAAAFvY/jjWuL1lXRY8/s800/P9050032.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-6QS0VEbPZv0/TIQgCVIKBMI/AAAAAAAAHEk/uznteguYLH4/s800/P9050036.JPG)
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the boxes were soaked at the bottom! I'm glad I took them out...and to be honest...I just can't see putting them back in...there's so much room back there!
Having pulled the starter out (and worse yet putting it back in :-/) more than once in my CVX I agree with you. I actually had to remove the manifold (and bench seat with attached engine and side covers ???) just to allow enough room for me to squeeze in their. I have thought about doing a mod on mine someday to make the flotation boxes removable for easier engine access when you need to do engine work. Some other make/model boats of the day had a simple engine hatch that you pop off for easy engine access not sure why Carlson's didn't come factory with same or similar design.
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So did you decide they werent providing any structural support or get some feed back from someone?
Yeah, lots of room now! So were those boxes supposedly sufficient in size to keep the boat afloat? Needless to say, without those..well that wont happen right? Looks like it was probably pretty worthless in the state it was in anyways.
Bilgecoat..special paint I imagine? Looks like a good idea. Any water protection back there would be good. Where did you buy that?
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So did you decide they werent providing any structural support or get some feed back from someone?
Yeah, lots of room now! So were those boxes supposedly sufficient in size to keep the boat afloat? Needless to say, without those..well that wont happen right? Looks like it was probably pretty worthless in the state it was in anyways.
Bilgecoat..special paint I imagine? Looks like a good idea. Any water protection back there would be good. Where did you buy that?
Yeah, just looked at them a little bit, and there was no way they were doing any good.
Bligekote is a paint designed to be chemical & stain resistant, so anything that does get in there should be easy to clean up. I just picked it up at a local marine dealer. He didn't have any on hand, but I'm finding out that we have a large distributor here in town and they'll let me pick up the stuff myself as long as I order through the dealer...so I was able to get it for the weekend.
I'm going to install some gunwale supports, and once the engine is in, I'll see where I can put foam that allows easy engine access.
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My 2 cents .. the flotation boxes back there, in my opinion, caused more grief for me than their designed security, the foam they contain will Certainly absorb water, and most have. The boxes being filled with foam do give some structural strength to the hull back there, but when they get soaked with water, they cause more stress to the hull. I removed them from my boat, but I did re-inforce the cross structure with thick woven mat, then I filled those sections with foam, not quite as much as the boxes contained, but to make up for the differance, I injected foam under the entire floor, giving the hull more strength, flotation, and me a good feeling of security, it must be working on my boat, most know it has been givin some test of structural strength.
Here's a Link to the mod ... http://www.olered.com/RedsScimitar.html (http://www.olered.com/RedsScimitar.html)
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I have to be honest, I don't understand Glastron's thinking...each of my flotation boxes had 4 rubber plug holes in the top, which allowed water to come in. I'm assuming that's where they injected the foam after the boxes were glassed in...so I get it...but they were essentially built to fail.
I suppose if you're building to a 10 year usable life or something, they accomplished that goal.
Anyway, Red, here's what I did with mine...I filled all voids under the floor with pink foam...should water ever get in, there is drainage from bow to stern, but, I'm pretty good about keeping my boats dry.
Anyway, here's what I did, floor is 10x more solid then it ever was, and I've added more flotation as well.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TVPVLBAy5yE/Ss1vcVUTeWI/AAAAAAAAHEk/c4hKK-Xbz4w/s800/PA070011.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-OAWgTbe9uKQ/Ss1vd6qed2I/AAAAAAAAHEk/LOBrVpvDVaw/s800/PA070012.JPG)
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I have to be honest, I don't understand Glastron's thinking...each of my flotation boxes had 4 rubber plug holes in the top, which allowed water to come in. I'm assuming that's where they injected the foam after the boxes were glassed in...so I get it...but they were essentially built to fail.
The flat surface on the boxes were a convenient place to screw down the trim pump, battery, and other stuff, all those holes are an opertunity to let water in those boxes, and you are right, as with all boat builders, there is a Line of concern about construction cost and U.S. Coast Gaurd and State reg's, and I do know that the production cost was a continual issue regarding the Carlson line
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Managed to get Bronchitis for Labor Day weekend, and haven't worked this week yet. Going in tomorrow finally.
A little progress...finished the Bilgekote...and glassed in supports for the rear portion on either side. I don't want the bench seat to have to support it as its already cracked on one side. If my plans work out, the rear will be a sundeck for my wife to lay out on, with the center section removable so that the original engine cover can be swapped in when I want it.
Just need to get the transom seal and bolt it back up so the engine can go in!
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TIWNRMoRgSI/AAAAAAAAFvw/B60vq4YPL40/s800/P9050025-1.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TIhVxFCGRII/AAAAAAAAFwg/rmxKV3RzfpA/s800/P9080031.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TIhVu7aEXuI/AAAAAAAAFwU/QoOi3zpm1JQ/s800/P9080028.JPG)
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Looks great Doran! Wish I had that garage to work in!!
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Looks great Doran! Wish I had that garage to work in!!
As Mr. Steve Ackerman can attest...its pretty tight in there and with Bluebell in the 3rd stall now, I've become a gymnast just to get to my workbench.
But...it does hold both boats and my wife's car...so I've been making due.
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Got room to build another garage off in the property somewhere? I work for beer and boat rides!!
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Here are the shots from my 18. No issues with support thus far. Doran you do great work. Great fiberglass work!!
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Hmm...thanks, but I think I mostly hack through it and get by...
I've noticed support issues on both CVZ's...the 19 at least has the fiberglassed finished area over the stern/bilge to add some stability. The 18 (or at least mine) has one crack already and a lot more flex than I'd like to see. It seems like everyone boarding the boat wants to step in one particular spot, and that takes a beating over time I think.
So..trying to strengthen both sides a bit so this doesn't happen on the other side:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wlLpvZAZwSQ/TIhVu7aEXuI/AAAAAAAAHEk/CJ2IKZLwDdc/s800/P9080028.JPG)
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Andy - how are you keeping stuff from the side storage areas out of the engine? My 1996 Glastron just had netting installed. I was thinking about lightweight panels that I could slide in & remove when I needed engine access. Are there more pictures of that area on your site? TIA
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There is plywood seperating it. Let me see if I can find a picture.
Andy
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The 18 (or at least mine) has one crack already and a lot more flex than I'd like to see
It has flex because the rear seat is removed. The rear seat is a structural part of the boat and it keeps the tops of the gunnel at the stern rigid.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l93/blinddate/cvx18enginebayport-1.jpg)
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Making great progress there D, I know you'll be glad to get that new engine nestled into place.
I was thinking about lightweight panels that I could slide in & remove when I needed engine access.
Is that "Starboard" stuff I've seen on TV expensive? (Maybe too thick, I don't know) Guess plexiglass would be prone to melting with the heat?
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Well...in the grand vision...there will be 2 braces on each side...one for the pad and one for the engine cover. I would allow about a 3/8" space between the 2 braces allowing for the panel to slide down into a C-channel piece on the floor. That would create a place on the floor to hold the panel, and on the top to hold the panel thus allowing for it to slide in and out as needed.
Since the braces would support the weight, I could use something as light as foamboard potentially.
That's the vision anyway...
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I could not find any shots of the actual plywood that seperates the engine from the storgage box. Not much to it. I will get some pics next time I'm at the storage.
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Thanks Andy, I think I've got what I need to do all figured out. On one hand, having it just separated by just cargo nets like my 1996 was would be great for engine access & weight reduction...on the other hand, I was always a little bit worried a noodle would get sucked into the motor. (Or worse...a kids hand, etc.)
So...I think I'll do the sliding panels, hopefully a good balance of safety & weight.
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Pictures later, but I need something to keep my mind off my Dad.
I've installed the transom bracket, (what a great feeling it is to put something ON), its snugged up pretty tight, but I cannot find torque specs for the bolts...help!
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When I installed mine I didn't use torque specs, I just went with "tight" enough that you start to feel it compressing into the wood but trying to keep all the bolts/nuts equally tight.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Bilge%20and%20Floor/IMG_0074.jpg)
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Couple of picts from today:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-r97QB9HiQEQ/TLo8l_AG0cI/AAAAAAAAHEk/gImFUrcj01M/s800/PA160031.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--gfl4vYOaIc/TLo8mc3UWlI/AAAAAAAAHEk/VnUe3sLBQYU/s800/PA160034.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QMeVUAM_3w0/TLo8ndAeS0I/AAAAAAAAHEk/g2VRWeviK7s/s800/PA160036.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9iNlrIkQdsI/TLo8m1iLXkI/AAAAAAAAHEk/hXqY_RyKF9g/s144/PA160035.JPG)
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Looking good. I see you replaced the two lower bolts. What's the white stuff you put in between?
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Looking good. I see you replaced the two lower bolts. What's the white stuff you put in between?
Being overly cautious, I ran a bead of 5200 where the gasket meets the transom. It rotted out in the bottom corners before, where the corner gasket 'thinned', so I wanted a little extra assurance. (Realizing its not necessary...)
I have 2 gaskets, one from Mercury, and one from GLM...and I'll tell you what the Mercury one is much better quality compared to the other one. Thicker, top seam almost perfect, really a better part all around.
Its all tightened up and ready for the Y-pipe tomorrow. It'd be ideal to get the engine in before winter hits so I can store it away for spring.
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BTW Rich, thanks for the rubber cement trick...worked great!
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You're welcome.
I've been finding that genuine Mercury parts are better albeit a bit more expensive than their aftermarket counterparts and I will only use the OEM parts. They are not only better quality most often they even install easier too, like in the case of the drive shaft and exhaust bellows. Seen too many problems with Sierra water pump impellers, again another item where OEM is superior.
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Yea, I have had a lot of problems with Sierra parts. For example, on a fuel pump, they put the wrong thread screw in the fuel pump so it did not seal. I have to pull it all apart in put in the correct screws. Plus the fuel filter in the pump was all smashed and was not filtering a thing. Stay away from sierra.
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Short of buying an engine hoist...any other creative (and safe) ways to get the engine off my engine stand and onto my pallet so I can get it ready to go in the boat?
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My fav is a 1000 lb capacity hoisting chain slung from a sturdy support beam. Is that an option?
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Engine%20Installation/IMG_0122.jpg)
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Congrats on the progress man, lookin good!
Some of the auto parts stores around here rent engine cranes, not sure if they do there, might be an option.
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Yeah, my Dad's handiwork (and lots of phone calls & conversation) is all over Goldie so I'm just not sure I can ever sell it now. Interestingly, before he died, I was about to give it away.
I have thought of renting one...suppose that's what I need to do.
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Cherry pickers are relatively cheap. $150??? At Fleet farm, harbor freight, Northern Tool. But I use mine about a dozen times a year.
Worked for me.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/101506002.jpg)
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A few pictures from today:
Anyone need an engine stand cuz I'm done with mine!!!
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TNcXRJwzVAI/AAAAAAAAF1c/Kkqf6xd_lhQ/s800/PB060045.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TNcXSvrbyuI/AAAAAAAAF1k/Vjb2iJGUmzo/s800/PB060047.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-CDHvQ78HrU0/TNcXVDHEqKI/AAAAAAAAHEk/NjoytJ2jbBk/s800/PB070050.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9k1WnJDML4I/TNcXVl7X7SI/AAAAAAAAHEk/T4puGBPmnmg/s800/PB070051.JPG)
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(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TNcXXNJA-FI/AAAAAAAAF18/KU6znGBzguQ/s800/PB070053.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TNcXYG0LyiI/AAAAAAAAF2A/jVLAuBelJNY/s800/PB070054.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TNc-XNlc3bI/AAAAAAAAF2o/Q7hYbVvOlk0/s800/PB070049.JPG)
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TNc-ZZmBXLI/AAAAAAAAF2w/KR1hWy8020o/s800/PB070051-1.JPG)
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Man! That is a good looking engine!!! Good work Doran!
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Doran that looks great. When will you run it?
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Doran that looks great. When will you run it?
Most likely not until next spring. Its getting too cold at nights to really want to have to winterize it...its already 'dry' if you will, so no need to risk it now. I have a lot of things to do on it before its ready to run anyway.
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Doran
Keep up the great work every thing is looking good.
Look me up if you happen to get to the twin cities this winter
Jeff
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So...finally ordered and received the bolts for mounting the engine. Naturally, my Clymers manual has the front torque specs, but no rear.
Help...I've torqued them to 20 for now.
And...2 steps forward, 1 step back...the cable bracket won't mount with the MDS distributor...too big.
Now what? Put the motor to TDC, and swap it out? I still have the Thunderbolt distributor that I originally purchased.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-EUU21nLaVh4/TPnJtdzCkxI/AAAAAAAAHEk/X269H6Mg7qk/s800/PC030021.JPG)
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Can you flip the red cable over 180 degrees?
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Can you flip the red cable over 180 degrees?
Yeah, I wondered that too. I'll check it tomorrow.
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You can flip the red cable around, it will still work fine. But, from what I understand those big red distributor caps with the coil built in are not marine approved.
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You can flip the red cable around, it will still work fine. But, from what I understand those big red distributor caps with the coil built in are not marine approved.
It isn't approved...and it won't be staying. However, for right now, the engine has been run & timed with it installed. So...the plan is to install everything, (not mess up a tuned & running engine), then...swap it out when I close up the engine bay.
It won't be there as like you've said, its not approved for marine applications. (I have no interest in blowing up the family.)
Rich - Any idea on the rear bolt torque specs?
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Tight ;D
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I've just consulted my Alpha one installation book and it says the rear engine bolts should be tightened to 35-40 Lbs. Ft.
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Tight ;D
LOL
Looks great D. I havent checked the thread for awhile. That is the used engine you picked up last year? Look nice and clean. I am curious...you mention Clymers manual...is it one for that boat specifically or?
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LOL
Looks great D. I havent checked the thread for awhile. That is the used engine you picked up last year? Look nice and clean. I am curious...you mention Clymers manual...is it one for that boat specifically or?
Its the Clymers Mercruiser engine manual. I'm finding its good for the basics, but lacks specifics, so I'm having to ask Rich for help from time to time.
Yep, this is the motor I picked up from Buffalo Lake, MN last summer for $200.00 on a road trip with my Dad. (Don't be too impressed though, I paid to have it professionally rebuilt. I know my limits.)
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Slowly but surely its coming along. Carb is on, cables attached, flame arrestor, cleaned & installed...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-r2EbsR39YZE/TPw_zRQpXvI/AAAAAAAAHEk/5KXR7iNdvao/s800/PC050032.JPG)
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A little closer every day! I have not done much of anything with any of mine. Need to get a few weekends to get at them. I did shovel out the CV-16 a bit. Filled the shop vac several times with yard trash from inside the hull. Need to get at grinding out the rest of the transom and floor.
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Yeah, if I actually knew what I was doing, I'm guessing this could be done in what, a couple more hours? Having never done anything more than changing my own oil, I'm really slow!
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No better way to learn than the bust your knuckles while trying!!! :-/
Wish I had a lot more mechanical knowledge too. But that is where the brotherhood here comes in! :P
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I am curious about this dist. Did the rebuilder install that one? If its not Marine approved, I dont understand why they'd do that or did you buy it and then discover that? Not approved due to spark issues?
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I am curious about this dist. Did the rebuilder install that one? If its not Marine approved, I dont understand why they'd do that or did you buy it and then discover that? Not approved due to spark issues?
There's a longer story here...but...the machine shop that rebuilt the motor for me does marine engines for 'manhood compensation' boats on a regular basis. The mechanic who rebuilt my engine has a twin engine Fountain and he uses the MDS Streetfire Dist that you see in mine. He 'upgraded' me for free.
I suspected it wasn't when I brought it home, but soon after, confirmed it wasn't. They run them in their race boats as well, they pretty much don't care if they blow up I guess. So...I'll get mine installed & running, then swap it out this spring. I've seen the engine run when it was on their stand being timed. If I have problems getting it running this spring, I'll know its something I did...most likely electrical or fuel related.
Its one of those deals where I'm sure its fine 99.9% of the time...but that one time you have fuel vapor in the engine bay...and its good night.
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Not that it makes it right but I know someone who has run a regular auto dist in his boat for many years.
What exactly does the manufacturer do to make it "marine" approved? Extra insulation on the cap? Find out exactly what they do and duplicate it on the one you have . New v8 marine distributors are well over $300 new from my findings.
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Yeah, there's extra screens internally to keep the sparks from igniting any fuel vapor.
I actually have a good Mercury Thunderbolt IV distributor already.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MJO7dh0Cnek/TQPkowzV-XI/AAAAAAAAHEk/i7wof6swhJk/s800/PC110029.JPG)
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Yeah, there's extra screens internally to keep the sparks from igniting any fuel vapor.
So thats all they do to make it "marine" so they can charge you almost twice as much as an automotive unit?
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The marine alternators that I've seen also use either mechanical (centrifugal) or electronic advance, not vacuum advance like the automotive distributors of the day. The Thunderbolt IV and V systems from Mercury are electronically controlled and use an optical or magnetic timing sensor under the cap, no points or condenser.
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Yeah, there's extra screens internally to keep the sparks from igniting any fuel vapor.
So thats all they do to make it "marine" so they can charge you almost twice as much as an automotive unit?
Yeah...what Rich said...plus...for $300, if it keeps the family safe...there's really no price on that.
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So...gonna express some frustration. I need a second valve cover breather valve on my engine. Go to the local dealer today only to have them print off a list of dealers who "might" have them in stock...as they're no longer available, and I'll be "lucky if I can find one".
(Which is fine...I usually try to patronage the local guys...as they've been pretty good to me so far.)
But com'on...ebay, iboats, etc, store after store has them...and most are new, and not even used. I swear these guys don't want me to give them $.
It really has depended on which guy is at the parts counter...so...I'll do it myself.
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Hey...what is this part & what does it do? Teaching yourself this stuff is hard...so its probably a really dumb question:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TRbV3PrXUBI/AAAAAAAAGBY/hEsXHS0MilQ/s800/PC260062.JPG)
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Oh I know, I know!!!! ;D
If you didn't have the electric choke pull-off coil on the carburetor directly above then there would be a thermostatic pull-off coil mounted in that location with linkage connecting it to the choke lever on the carburetor - or - in the case of really old engines (maybe 60's-70's) there might be a heat transfer tube wrapped with insulation connecting that plate to the choke coil on the carburetor. But since your choke pull-off is electric neither are required. Now I'm anticipating your next question - where is the wire that connected to the terminal on your electric choke coil? It should be purple with a white stripe? ???
It would be part of the original engine wiring harness along with the Thunderbolt ignition distributor system. If not then you'll probably have to tap off from a 12v ignition source that's live when the key is in the on position.
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Actually...my next question was gonna be...do I need to do something with it? (ie...cover it up? replace it with a flat cover or something? It looks open to the intake?)
I actually have 2 complete wiring harnesses for the engine, and I'm hoping I can trust the Clymer's wiring schematic to finish up the wiring.
Thanks Rich!
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That plate is not open to the intake (at least it shouldn't be). I think that plate is the cover with a gasket, and the holes are the ends of a small metal tube that's coiled underneath sitting within the flow of engine coolant to pickup and transfer heat for the choke.
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Rich is right, it is a heat tube, but it is heated by exhaust gases, that port is a cross-over of exhaust from one head to the other, there is a gasket under the plate, it it don't leak any exhaust, I wouldn't try to remove those little bolts, they are notorious for twisting off rather than twisting out. There are little "block" plates that come with an intake manifold gasket set that you can place there to block off those ports when installing the intake manifold.
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Choke stove.
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LOL .. never heard it called that, but that is what it is. Hey Jerry, when an electric choke assy is installed on the carb, rather than the vacumn kind, don't the electric choke assy close off the vacumn port that draws the heat through the bi-metal spring ?
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I think so.
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A carb that uses an electric choke doesn't have a vacuum tube. If it does it's used too.
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I've rebuild a ton of those carbs. I think the vacuum channel is still part of the carb but the orifice is blocked off when using the electric choke by the choke housing so there's no vacuum leak. The non-electric choke housings have a kick-open piston that uses the vacuum to open the choke slightly for warm-up as well as draw in the heat from the tube that goes into the manifold, the electric choke housings do not so they don't have that vacuum port drilled opened, they are closed when the housing is molded.
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Lemme rephrase my last entry - Some of the electric choke housings still use the vacuum port to kick open the choke once the engine is started, some do not. On those two-barrel carbs they do. On carbs like my four-barrel Rochester Q-jet it has a separate vacuum pull-off with linkage to hold open the choke once the engine is running.
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Am I the only one going stir crazy? It was 35 here today, so I fired up the little space heater and made some more progress.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TU4Dle0jQKI/AAAAAAAAGGk/YMe1FCNwZbo/s800/P2050074.JPG)
New Oil Pressure sender installed. (Original one didn't clear the distributor.)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TU4Dl83Yx0I/AAAAAAAAGGo/3XnVlIkAvWs/s800/P2050075.JPG)
Attached an exhaust manifold & hoses:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TU4DmfNN8YI/AAAAAAAAGGs/X5btjTMFeRo/s800/P2050076.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TU4Dmyh-lvI/AAAAAAAAGGw/zt5oSVjDVdk/s800/P2050078.JPG)
and...broke my new starter... >:(
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-BfawIwjFVbI/TU4Dn4bmW-I/AAAAAAAAHEk/liPIRY07TMA/s800/P2050080.JPG)
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Wow ! that too bad Doran, but it's not that big a deal to have a new nose put on the starter, any starter shop can do that. One thing though, it's less apt to break the holes out if you use the right bolts, the original starter bolts have a "nurled" shoulder, and a washer type head, so you don't need a washer, and remember to sgug em up together them tighten em up the same way, just be sure not to tighten one bolt up all the way when the other is not snugged up pretty good. No Sweat .. just take a breath, grin about it and git-er-done
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Yeah, I had to use new bolts...this starter is much smaller than my old giant of a starter...so the original bolts are about 1/2" too long...couldn't use them. The issue is that the mounting brackets are all hollowed out and don't line up correctly with where the motor meets the old one. It broke before even torquing it. I had just tightened them up with my little socket set. The piece that broke doesn't even hit the block.
I need to get the old one rebuilt and just stick with that. If this is the worst that happens I'll be just fine. I'm putting this together having never seen it assembled, and never having done anything more than change the oil in my cars, and a thermostat once...so...the learning process continues.
You are right though, that additional shoulder probably would have applied more even pressure, I get that now after thinking through your comments. Good stuff!
Thanks Red.
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Motors looking good Doran. Is there room behind the motor to hook up the exhaust down below or did you do that first?
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yeah, that's all done through the 'Y' pipe...its all sealed up...although all of the outdrive/gimbal housing rubber is shot, so that'll have to wait until the spring. Right now, it'd leak like crazy! Shift cable is junk too, cracked & rusted.
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Ok...Alternator question time, since my 898 wiring schematic doesn't even show them...there are 2 additional wiring coming off of it. Its a Motorola brand alternator.
The smaller red & yellow wires aren't documented in the schematic in my Clymers manual:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TVtI2t-85tI/AAAAAAAAGJ0/FCGGz8GdjSk/s800/P2150082.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TVtI3UarvOI/AAAAAAAAGJ4/FoVDzdg9qew/s800/P2150083.JPG)
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Hi Doran, the Motorola alternators have, or should have two wires coming out of the regulator on the back of the alternator, the yellow is and exciter wire, and the red is charge wire .. I think, anyway, they just plug in .. I had a single wire Delco made for Barbs boat, to replace the Motorola, the Delco just uses the one hot red wire, the other two I just cut off.
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Sorry Red...I did not word my question very well...yeah, they do just plug in to the alternator on that end...(I'd put a new alt. in, but I wound up with 3 good ones in the parts bucket that came with the boat...go figure.)
The smaller red one I traced and was already hooked up in the wiring harness, the yellow one however, looks like it could go to the coil? Don't know...that's the one I'm wondering where it attaches to?
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I'll check the Motorola books at work today to see if their schematic sheds any light on the subject, Doran. I believe Red is right, the yellow is an exciter wire, which would supply 12V to the alternator when the key is turned on, so it may very well be hooked to the + side of the coil.
Update: No help there, they just show it as "keyed 12 V +".
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Thanks for checking Mark.
I have some engine pictures from Chris's (Hotwired) CV-27's 305's and it does appear to route to the coil...so that's the plan.
Making more and more progress on the boat. Wiring is basically all done...working on the dash now.
I'm stressing way too much over what gauges would look best in the boat.
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Hey...is there some procedure for testing a Trim Pump? Or can I just touch with wires to the battery and see if it kicks in?
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Here ya go Doran, check this out:
http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/tech%20tilt%20trim%20motor%20tips.pdf (http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/tech%20tilt%20trim%20motor%20tips.pdf)
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Anyone know how to plumb the lines for the tilt/trim?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lQllBMDko5Y/TWBSCtqReKI/AAAAAAAAHEk/aYBOktJ3zZU/s800/P2180081.JPG)
Not sure where these go? The one on the right is 'fabric' covered, the other one isn't...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RiLl9u9k55c/TWBSDRVXPGI/AAAAAAAAHEk/RFMfm6aiQ3Q/s800/P2180084.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ip5Acq8HEQE/TWBSEHKAb8I/AAAAAAAAHEk/WVqCbjJvMhA/s800/P2180087.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Ps_xKYpUSUQ/TWBSEx9fqyI/AAAAAAAAHEk/wkPrgozoM4Q/s800/P2180080-1.JPG)
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Pulled the dash today too:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TWBSFk9K6mI/AAAAAAAAGLg/g2e_SC_Y-OU/s800/P2180081-1.JPG)
Its pretty rough, so I'll need to replace the wood...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TWBSGIOgbKI/AAAAAAAAGLk/D0oK1UrhVMY/s800/P2180082-1.JPG)
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Doran, Not sure if you saw this or not. Just incase you wanted to replace your dash panel
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2050.0
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Yeah, I did see that...back from my Bayliner days...there's a guy there that has a business making custom dash panels:
http://aplusmobilegraphics.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_17 (http://aplusmobilegraphics.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_17)
I was planning to have him make me a new one. He does great work.
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Jason - I really need to read better. That would be a great match for the dash, so hopefully he has some left to sell. Much more reasonably priced too!
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More progress on the engine...does anyone know where the solenoid in the 2nd picture mounts? It looks like it should mount to the rear of the exhaust manifold, but there just doesn't appear to be enough room?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TWNLdBdDyQI/AAAAAAAAGMc/A9TTr4eG7YA/s800/P2210081.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JiSY3bdvKIA/TWNLgGg_VNI/AAAAAAAAHEk/K-87L2i9ttU/s800/P2210084.JPG)
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Thats pretty close Doran ... but just a little higher, it bolts to the manifold, and turn it around
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Ah...Thanks Red!
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18 months later...the engine is done!!!! WHOOHOO!!!
(I can't believe its been 18 months...)
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Wow I give you props on taking your time. Once I start a project i'm hard at it till its done. lol my girl sometimes doesn't like that so much...
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Well, I have bluebell, so I always had a boat to use...makes a big difference.
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Ah...the fun electrical issues begin.
Dash works, 12 Volts on the meter, 12 volts to the starter & through the solenoid, I must be missing something...or the starter is hooked up wrong...doesn't make a sound, doesn't turn or anything. Starter isn't labeled...so I could have the yellow wire on the wrong pole too?
If the neutral safety was shot would I have 12 Volts to the starter?
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One of the small terminals on the solenoid has an "S" on it. That's the one. and if the neutral switch was bad, you would have nothing past the switch. TEST LIGHT!!
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There is always 12 volts to the starter provided you have a large battery cable connected to it from the battery's positive post. Does the solenoid on the rear of the exhaust manifold click when you turn the key to start? If no, then it could be not getting the signal to do so from the key - a bad or disconnected neutral safety switch in the control box could cause that.
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Yeah, no solenoid click...and that was already hooked up to the wiring harness, and I checked it against the schematic and believe its correct. I've got power on both sides of that as well, but I suppose the click is the solenoid closing to complete it right?
I checked the main fuse, I've got current going through.
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I would first trace it out with a test light to find out why you're solenoid isn't clicking. The thin yellow/red wire is the same that comes off your key switch and goes through the neutral safety, power should be there when you turn the key to start. The solenoid should click to close the contacts between the two large terminals to send power to the solenoid on the starter.
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I would first trace it out with a test light to find out why you're solenoid isn't clicking. The thin yellow/red wire is the same that comes off your key switch and goes through the neutral safety, power should be there when you turn the key to start. The solenoid should click to close the contacts between the two large terminals to send power to the solenoid on the starter.
I do have power to the yellow wire when the key goes to the start position, then not when the key is set back to 'run' position.
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That is correct then. Then one of the large terminal wires (probably yellow) goes to the start terminal on the starter's solenoid, this would be to the small terminal to the right (between the two large terminals) inside closest to the engine block, not the opposite one on the outside.
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Update...when my son hits the start on the key switch, I actually lose current off the small yellow wire.
Bridging the 2 large solenoid poles sends power to the starter and she cranks over!
So...bad solenoid or neutral switch?
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Could be a bad solenoid or is improperly wired, or maybe even a bad ground connection. If your manifold mounted solenoid doesn't have a black ground wire then it is probably grounded to the block through its mounting bracket - or you haven't yet bolted it to the manifold.
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Could be a bad solenoid or is improperly wired, or maybe even a bad ground connection. If your manifold mounted solenoid doesn't have a black ground wire then it is probably grounded to the block through its mounting bracket - or you haven't yet bolted it to the manifold.
No grounding wire, it is mounted to the manifold. Surprisingly enough...I have spares of those in the bonus bucket too. :D
BTW, Rich...thanks for the help. If you ever make it to the meet in MN (and I can find a way to haul 2 boats there)...Golidie's all yours for the meet.
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Such a tempting offer! If I can manage the time away from work I would love to be there. I'll bring my tool bag with me. ;)
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I'll try replacing the solenoid with my spare... Since the boat sat outside since forever, what do you think the changes are the safety is shot in the throttle lever?
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First disconnect the small yellow wire from the solenoid and connect it to a test light to see if it lights when the key is turned to start. If it does then the circuit is fine. If it doesn't light then you have to trace it back through the engine connection harness, to the neutral safety, then to the key to find where power isn't getting through, eliminating each connection along the way. Remember, the wire lead on the test light needs a good connection to ground to work.
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Perfect. Thanks again Rich.
Space heaters still running in the garage, time to do a little research work!
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Sorry Doran, been teaching my grandson how ti eat a plate full of bar-b-q ribs ... uhmmmm
Here's you a pic, I don't have the starter on, but I think this will help ya.
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Yeah, I've got some things to check out in the starting circuit tomorrow. I've got something not right going on when turning the key to 'start'...power drops out on the yellow wire.
Rich shot me some good suggestions above...but now I'm getting excited.
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That is correct then. Then one of the large terminal wires (probably yellow) goes to the start terminal on the starter's solenoid, this would be to the small terminal to the right (between the two large terminals) inside closest to the engine block, not the opposite one on the outside.
I also had the yellow wire on the outside smaller terminal...moved to the inside...no change. I'll have my son help me test the circuits tomorrow.
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If that remote solenoid is like the ones on my Johnsons, one large terminal is to the battery, the other large terminal goes ti the starter "S" terminal., one small terminal goes to the switch, and the other goes to the neutral switch and must be grounded to engage. YOU CAN NOT USE AN AUTOMOTIVE SOLENOID FOR THIS, THEY GROUND THROUGH THE BASE. Maybe they're not the same. somebody know?
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It's not the same Jerry. If the remote solenoid is the one that I think it is there is no ground wire on it and does ground through the mounting bracket. My 3.7 engine uses the same type. It instead also has a purple/yellow wire on it going to the ignition coil to bypass the resistance wire when cranking the engine so the coil receives full power to maintain spark. I've notated Red's pic below.
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How do you get neutral safety then?
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In the schematic I posted, it shows the starter solenoid grounding through the base,which is how mine is set up.
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Jer, the neutal safety is nothing more than a contact switch placed in-line with the start wire from the key switch. If the shift control in not in neutral then the switch contacts will be open preventing the start signal from reaching the solenoid, not allowing you to crank the engine in gear.
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So...that would mean I should be able to easily bypass that switch (just for now) until I get a replacement...should that be my issue...
No outdrive, just focused on trying to get the key to start it up...
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Hey Doran ... give me a call if ya got a minute 405-810-8044
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Good info on testing solenoids, etc.;http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Tech%20Solenoid%20Circuts%20%26%20Testing.pdf (http://www.arcomarine.com/xhtml/Tech%20Solenoid%20Circuts%20%26%20Testing.pdf)
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I like pictures. Great link Mark! Thanks.
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Jer, the neutral safety is nothing more than a contact switch placed in-line with the start wire from the key switch. If the shift control in not in neutral then the switch contacts will be open preventing the start signal from reaching the solenoid, not allowing you to crank the engine in gear.
If that's the case it's redundant, You could throw it away.
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Throw what away, the neutral safety switch? It's in the control box and that's a safety feature I would definitely want to keep. If you mean the remote solenoid then yes they are redundant because there's usually one on the starter too. But I've seen them on every I/O engine I've worked on so there must be a reason as to why they're required if not to prevent the key switch and wiring from burning up when you crank the engine.
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I went back and looked at the schematic (which I should have done before getting into something I knew nothing about and haven't been following) You're right, but the solenoid is redundant (if there is two small terminals on the starter). I hate when they do that.
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First of all...ITS RUNNING!!! ;D
(but...I still have to jump the solenoid to start it up.)
Here's my solenoid & the voltages I get both in the 'Run' & 'Start' positions. I think the Solenoid is shot.
ON / Start
A: 12.55
B: Weird, I can't get a voltage...it pulses
C: 0.01 / 10.95
D: .6 / .87
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TWchW1QyY5I/AAAAAAAAGOc/3RJPTv9x2NY/s800/Solenoid%20Labeled.jpg)
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You should not have any voltage on "C" except for when you turn the key to the start position. Check voltage at the wire with it disconnected from the solenoid. I suspect there's a problem with the solenoid otherwise it would be trying to start the engine as long as there is voltage at that terminal.
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First of all...ITS RUNNING!!! ;D
What ? ... No Video !
! Video not found (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1hkQ-Fnyss#)
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First of all...ITS RUNNING!!! ;D
What ? ... No Video !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1hkQ-Fnyss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1hkQ-Fnyss)
Its uploading...but...its nothing spectacular...its just firing off the carb, no fuel line...yet.
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First of all...ITS RUNNING!!! ;D
What ? ... No Video !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1hkQ-Fnyss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1hkQ-Fnyss)
RED!
You're the man. I have never in my life seen anyone start an engine on an engine stand! And who the heck needs exhaust manifolds! At least you didn't start your shirt on fire! I can't stop smiling. That was awesome.
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Ok Red...this is really umm...well, no big deal compared to that.
I can't run the video recorder, jump the solenoid & squirt fuel down the carbs...so everyone will just have to trust me that it ran longer.
Something else I need to do is disconnect throttle control from the helm so that I can control that from the back of the boat for now.
Red - Thanks for phone chat today as well! Help put my mind at ease before starting it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvPxeKzdoI4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvPxeKzdoI4)
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Oh...the other thing is...is that I think my starter poles are different...(it'd be nice if they'd label them right?)
When I hooked the yellow wire up as Rich described...I've got nothing, no current to the small yellow wire in any key position, or when jumping the solenoid...starter's dead.
When I moved it over to the other side (outside...which looks right to me) it has power, and closes the starter solenoid circuit causing the starter to kick on like I'd expect it to. Does that make sense?
Pictured below is the way it didn't work:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TWcgBoqiOBI/AAAAAAAAGOQ/TedMGuTfc-g/s800/P2240083.JPG)
And...how it does work...let me know if I'm being stupid...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TWc-vW_O0NI/AAAAAAAAGO8/c4sshIAN8vY/s800/P2240084.JPG)
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Ok...retested the solenoid Rich. Updated the 'C' numbers. I didn't test that correctly. It has no power until I click over to 'Start'...then it jumps to just under 11 Volts...so I believe that's correct. I think the circuit just won't close, so I'll be ordering a new solenoid.
Based on the doc link from MarkS, there's too much resistance and needs to be replaced.
I did trace the circuit from the key to the engine, and I do have power flowing correctly. (I even bypassed the neutral start circuit just for now...and its good as well.)
That smaller yellow wire from the solenoid to the starter could still be wrong..
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Looking at your starter it appears the solenoid mounted to it is rotated 90* counter clockwise compared to every other starter I've installed so attach the yellow wire to the small terminal at the top as shown in this picture you provided, not at the one close to the body of the starter. I think once you replace the remote solenoid you'll be ok.
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Still excited:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOThh0pvDI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAOThh0pvDI)
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Hey .. Ya heard it run Doran ... but, set that bottle of gas out of the boat, set it away from the spark caused by jumping the solenoid, and don't dare try to pour any more in the carb while it's running, keep it Safe. I don't let my motors run but about 30 /45 seconds with-out water in em, a minute or so is plenty, but it's fun to hear em.
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Another safety tip - if you do run it like that by pouring fuel down the throat of the carb you should put the flame arrester on top before you crank it. I've seen too many of them flame up, had one singe the hairs off my arm once. I've also seen people catch on fire from a flame-up.
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Yeah, I hear that...its run maybe 15 secs, 2 or 3 times.
Won't run again now until I can run water to it to cool it properly, plus, I want to change the oil.
But yes...it fires off...I'm good with that.
Rich - good tip. I'm done running it until I can cool it correctly, change the oil, plumb the tank, etc. Still a lot to do.
and buy a new Solenoid...
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Just some food for thought. Back about 67 I had a dragster with a small block Chev. I couldn't afford a good set of Mondello heads, so I got out the grinder and did my own. I went just a little too far, and well they leaked a little. so we would push start the dragster and make a full pass, without anything in the engine for cooling. We had a water jug that we would hook on while we pushed it back with the drain plugs out (well it didn't have any) and it would be cooled down for the next run. I shifted at 10,000 Rpm and went through the lights a little closer to 12. Ran that motor for two years without any problems.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/Email000114.jpg)
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Wow Jerry, I LOVE hearing a small block turn 8500 to 10,000 ... sounds like a roller bearing, with zoomies. I remember filling the bottom half of the block with sand and cement, up to the casting holes, surprizing how long they would run.
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Doran,
AWESOME! well done! I'm sure you can get some good advice from the pro's here. if you are gonna wait till you have cooling flow that will give a little time for some of these guys to chime in on cam break in, run times at certain rpm's, ring seating, etc. you can hook the hose to your water inlet tube inside the transom as long as you don't put the drive on and spin the impeller dry.
I certainly don't claim to be an expert on the best way to break in a new motor, so let's help him out here guys, we want him to get the most out of his investment!
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Break in the cam in the pit, 2500+ for a minute or two, rip it up a time or two ... rings will seat between turn 2 and turn 3 and let-er-yell down the strait
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Break in the cam in the pit, 2500+ for a minute or two, rip it up a time or two ... rings will seat between turn 2 and turn 3 and let-er-yell down the strait
Machine shop told me to run it like I stole it...I think that's the same thing right?
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Well .. yes, the only thing that is pretty important to remember, about the cam, the lobes are lubricated by splash oil, and it's important to keep it well lubed for an hour or so, just don't be idling around till you run it on top of the water a while. I don't have a lot of patience, but really, I do wait till I got 20 or 30 minutes on top of the water before I take it to wot, and I don't hold it there long, not even a minute, but if it's feeling good after that, I'll let it all hang out, I seldom ever hold my throttle wide open for more than a minute or two, I'll take it to the limit, then pull it back till I hear it relax, and thats where I run it.
The cam break in is not something to take lightly on a flat tappet cam, but your's is already been through that part, the roller cams are really forgiving, but I still use a good grade diesel in my motors, it's still got a little zinc in it, thats good for the cam and the bottom of the lifters.
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I understood everything but the part about the diesel?
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That would be like Shell Rotella oil designed to run in diesel motors. There's no break in for a race motor. If you put it together right she'll run.GM made some stuff called "Cam Lube" that I put on all my cams when I put them in, and I had a squirt can of 10w oil and STP that I used on all the pistons and bearings. I also had a distributor shaft that was extended to go in a drill to build oil pressure before ya ever lit the wick.
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Congrats on getting the fire lit Doran, a major milestone for sure!
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Ok...time to get the fuel line run so it can run for more than a sputter (when it warms up). Fuel line size? I know I need 'big'...but honestly, the old hard copper lines are pretty small!
I was thinking I should go with 3/8"?
I'm also thinking of adding a fuel tank inspection plate:
http://www.seabuilt.com/ (http://www.seabuilt.com/)
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I used 3/8ths USCG approved A1 fuel hose when I replaced all my old copper fuel line. Also new shut-off valve on the tank and a Tempo (Moeller) water separator filter mounted to the transom.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Engine%20Installation/IMG_0287.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Engine%20Installation/IMG_0286.jpg)
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The gas shut off valve is a good idea.
My plan was to run new hose from the tank to the engine mounted water separator.
Now...here's where the confession comes in...in my haste to get the floor done before winter set in, I completely spaced on taking the tank out, cleaning it, new fuel pickup, etc. It was a nice day, I put the floor in, glassed everything together, and then the 'shoot' moment.
So...I'm left with adding an inspection plate to the tank.
(Yes, I screwed up.)
Do you know if the fuel port on the tank should screw out? Or is that brazed/welded in place with no way to remove it? I have no idea if the fuel pick up even is attached anymore.
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Assuming your tank is similar to mine it should screw out. The port on my tank looked like it was welded in place but screwed right out after a few seconds of applied muscle. The pick-up in my tank is hilariously pre-historic in design...it's literally just a tube. No screen or anything...
I'm really hoping the inside of your tank isn't full of crap like mine was!
Good luck and keep up the good work...
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Most are screwed into the tank, mine is but I've never removed it. Without seeing the fittings on your tank I couldn't say for sure but I would have to believe that there's a way to service or replace the pickup if needed.
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Alex - Your tank discovery were my 'oh uh' moment...I even had it loose & ready to pull...
Rich - I'd agree, it should be serviceable part...I'll check it out.
I still think the inspection plate is a good idea...so may proceed with that as well.
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Fuel tank:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/Ss1vfG9w2TI/AAAAAAAAFUQ/JsP2FU9lyuU/s800/PA070013.JPG)
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It looks like yours are removable too. Why does yours have two pick-ups in the tank? Is one for a fuel reserve, switchable with a fuel valve?
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It looks like yours are removable too. Why does yours have two pick-ups in the tank? Is one for a fuel reserve, switchable with a fuel valve?
Left one is the fuel pickup, right one vents out to the side.
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Strange that they would do it like that. Usually the vent is located close to where the fill hose connects, not near the pick-up. Although in the case of my tank all three are next to each other, but the vent is a plain 1/2 inch hose fitting, not a machined/threaded one.
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Strange that they would do it like that. Usually the vent is located close to where the fill hose connects, not near the pick-up. Although in the case of my tank all three are next to each other, but the vent is a plain 1/2 inch hose fitting, not a machined/ threaded one.
I have 2 vents...I thought it was weird too.
Old picture...but you can see both vents:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RC1GHtdxTKM/StzIaxNvnvI/AAAAAAAAHEk/pEQV-TPMcUw/s800/PA180065.JPG)
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Yeah that is strange ??? my vent tube is set up just like rich's.
Whatever...if it work it works!
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My rather lame theory is that b/c it is a bowrider, they thought it could become 'bow heavy' for longer periods of time. If so, then the gas would run to the front and need to be vented at the rear?
(I told you it was lame.)
I look at it as twice the opportunity for water to get into the tank...
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Ok...I got all the fuel lines run today...all we need is warmer weather!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KnY5Z55ZRs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KnY5Z55ZRs)
The sad part is that I can't run it again until it warms up!
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Good Job Doran !
I know you must be thrilled.
One thing to check out about those gas tank vents, there should be a "loop" in the vent hoses, the loop should curl Up above the vent outlet on the side of the boat, that keeps gas from being trapped in the vent line, and it helps prevent gas coming out when you power the boat up, and it keeps water from entering the tank through the vents.
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Awesome dude! Did you get the starter solenoid figured out?
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Thanks Red. Yes. I'm beyond happy. I know I'm not done yet...but I never thought I'd see it running. Last spring I essentially tried to give it away.
There is a 'high bend' above the rear vent, I'll check the filler neck tomorrow. I've always done a similar thing to my bilge pump as well, a high loop above the thru hull to prevent water from coming in.
Rich - based on the tests we did, I'm assuming its the solenoid. I'm still starting it by jumping it, but based on that sheet from MarkS, and your guidance, its bad. Current flows as expected, but the resistance is too high so it won't close the circuit. I'm waiting on a replacement.
One question I had was I don't get how the electric choke works...I'm used to a push-to-choke on the key (at least on my outboards)...but this one doesn't have that? Or did the previous owner install the wrong key type?
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No, I/O engines don't have a push-to-choke like an outboard. These engines use a thermostat bi-metal coil spring of some sort that is supposed to be set up so when the engine is cold the coil pulls the choke closed. Some chokes have an electric heating element inside the housing that warms up while the ignition is on or they draw heat up a tube from a "stove pipe" in the intake manifold which causes the coil spring to unwind and open the choke flap as the engine warms up. Other choke coils can be mounted directly on the intake manifold and connect to the carburetor choke lever with a link rod and those open from direct contact heat coming from the manifold. So if yours is electric it will open slowly while the ignition is on, taking power right from the 12v line coming from the key.
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So its an auto-choke essentially. Sounds good.
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Yes. When you start the engine cold you pump the throttle handle one or two times to prime the engine then set the throttle with a little advance and crank the engine. The choke should have snap closed at that point. As the engine starts the choke will kick open a crack to allow air in then as the electric element heats up the choke will open and the engine speed will increase. That's when you can slowly retard the throttle until it will run at normal idle speed.
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Another thing you need to know is these electric chokes start warming up and opening from the moment you turn on the ignition so you can't wait to start it when cold or else the choke would be open before you get around to starting the engine. This is a small problem that was remedied on later models with the addition of an oil pressure switch wired in-line with the electric choke. It's purpose was to keep the power to the choke turned off until the engine actually started, then when the switch sensed oil pressure its contacts closed completing the circuit to the choke turning on the heating element.
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Ok...how difficult is replacing the bellows & getting that all sealed up? Seems like its the biggest source of water intrusion on an I/O.
Is it something I can handle?
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I have done it myself on my brothers boat, and I consider myself your average guy. It is deff tight trying to get everything back in place. But can be done. You just need to have patients. Make sure you get the good marine sealant. That is one job that you only want to do once.
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I use Mercury's Bellows Adhesive whenever I replace bellows. It's good stuff but you got to be quick with it or it dries before you get the bellows seated on the flanges. Wet the inner surface of the bellows with the adhesive and slide the bellows into place and tighten up the clamp. Attach them to the bell housing first and then to the transom shield. The biggest problem is situating the clamp so the screw is easy to get at for tightening while at the same not interfering with anything else.
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I use Mercury's Bellows Adhesive whenever I replace bellows. It's good stuff but you got to be quick with it or it dries before you get the bellows seated on the flanges. Wet the inner surface of the bellows with the adhesive and slide the bellows into place and tighten up the clamp. Attach them to the bell housing first and then to the transom shield. The biggest problem is situating the clamp so the screw is easy to get at for tightening while at the same not interfering with anything else.
Am I crazy or do a lot of the parts look like just standard parts? Bellows, shift cable boot, etc are specialized of course, but do I order the $155.00 kit (which has extra parts...) or buy individually and save a couple $?
http://www.iboats.com/Transom-Seal-Kit-Sierra/dm/cart_id.014306771--session_id.042353557--view_id.187683 (http://www.iboats.com/Transom-Seal-Kit-Sierra/dm/cart_id.014306771--session_id.042353557--view_id.187683)
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I would go with Mercury OEM parts, not the Sierra stuff. I always had trouble fitting some of their bellows and hoses, the Merc parts go on better. However that is a good price considering you're getting the gimbal bearing too. But the one for the exhaust in that kit is just a tube that fastens to the transom shield and is left open on the other. They call it a performance exhaust tube but it does little to increase performance except to make it sound a bit louder. It's really meant for a big block engine to allow the exhaust to breathe more, that's where it will be more of a benefit. If you order a full shift cable kit you may get the cable bellows and drive installation gasket set with it. I think you can get the kits either way though.
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I would go with Mercury OEM parts, not the Sierra stuff. I always had trouble fitting some of their bellows and hoses, the Merc parts go on better. However that is a good price considering you're getting the gimbal bearing too. But the one for the exhaust in that kit is just a tube that fastens to the transom shield and is left open on the other. They call it a performance exhaust tube but it does little to increase performance except to make it sound a bit louder. It's really meant for a big block engine to allow the exhaust to breathe more, that's where it will be more of a benefit. If you order a full shift cable kit you may get the cable bellows and drive installation gasket set with it. I think you can get the kits either way though.
Yes, I forgot...I'll look for the Mercury OEM stuff. I kind of really like how the boat sounds without the exhaust going through the outdrive...so maybe I'll use that. (I did read that its intended use for the big blocks.)
I do need the shift cable as well...I'll do some checking and see what I get with what.
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Shift cable is a good idea, especially if the old one is binding up or if the cable jacket is cracked or broken where it screws into the bell housing. The cable and the gimbal bearing were the first two things I replaced in my transom set when I reassembled my boat. I haven't done the drive shaft or exhaust bellows yet though, they still looked ok. I have some tips and tricks for installing the cable, lemme know when you're ready and I can talk you through it.
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But the one for the exhaust in that kit is just a tube that fastens to the transom shield and is left open on the other. They call it a performance exhaust tube but it does little to increase performance except to make it sound a bit louder.
Mine was like that till I put through hull on it. It sounds nice when its out of the water, however when you on the water it doesn't really make a difference. I thought it would but its just as quite. :-/
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Stick to OEM parts. I have officially given up on Sierra. Bunch of junk. Never had so many problems with aftermarket parts.
You get what you pay for and sometimes even a lot less!
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Shift cable is a good idea, especially if the old one is binding up or if the cable jacket is cracked or broken where it screws into the bell housing. The cable and the gimbal bearing were the first two things I replaced in my transom set when I reassembled my boat. I haven't done the drive shaft or exhaust bellows yet though, they still looked ok. I have some tips and tricks for installing the cable, lemme know when you're ready and I can talk you through it.
The old one has a cracked jacket; the cable works, but is rusted...so that's getting replaced.
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Well, I finally have Goldie starting off the ignition switch. Can I just say that multiple points of failure in electrical circuits are 'fun' to diagnose.
Bad solenoid, replaced; bad ground, moved & fixed; neutral safety is also bad, bypassed for now.
Does anyone know if I can even get parts for the old morse control? I didn't want to replace that just yet...thinking in the fall.
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You might try Joe Poole at Ferguson Poole Marine, he's great at sourcing old hard to find parts like that Doran.
email = jdpjratlanta@msn.com
http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com/ (http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com/)
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You might try Joe Poole at Ferguson Poole Marine, he's great at sourcing old hard to find parts like that Doran.
email = jdpjratlanta@msn.com
http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com/ (http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com/)
I always forget about him! I'll shoot him an email.
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Does anyone know if I can even get parts for the old morse control? I didn't want to replace that just yet...thinking in the fall.
Sometimes it's best and more cost effective to buy another used control on ebay to use for parts or as a replacement. Prices can be dirt-cheap sometimes.
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I was thinking the same thing, Rich. Did it look like this Doran?
Used Vintage Morse Remote Control Assembly
Very Nice Used Vintage Morse Remote Control Assembly @ $79.99
Typically Used In Inboard/Outboard Boats In The Late 1970's and Early 1980's
Control Mechanism Installs Entirely Behind Mounting Panel, Only The Handle And Throttle Only Knob Are Visable With Small Cover Plate
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That's it! Where'd you find it?
I'd love to put a modern teleflex one in...but budget won't allow it this year...seats...must buy seats!
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Doran, that's our good friend Mr Poole...
http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com/contrlssteeringinstrmnt.html (http://www.fergusonpoolemarine.com/contrlssteeringinstrmnt.html)
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That's it! Where'd you find it?
I'd love to put a modern teleflex one in...but budget won't allow it this year...seats...must buy seats!
Doran,
I saved alot by working with a local upholstery shop and making all the wood cushion backers and bucket seats myself. an interior that would have cost around $2500-$3000 if I would have just dropped off the boat cost under $1000 because I did all the wood work and installation myself. something to think about. I still have patterns, I could make some new buckets and other pieces for you if you like...
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The interior plan is fairly set actually.
2 captains & a rear bench all from Veada. I've got custom upholstery samples they don's show on their website that match Goldie perfectly. I'll just need the 2 bow seats & stern pads custom...should be under $1k for a very nice interior...
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Ok...son's home...worked on the boat a little tonight. I'm now confused on the wiring & how this works. I don't understand how the Up/Out could function...I think there's a connection missing?
Here's the Loop back I added to bypass the limit switch:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IOkbTT_5uDI/TYQ0EiMtLvI/AAAAAAAAHEk/heQYRqFVSnk/s800/P3180084.JPG)
Here's the pump...notice how the green 'lead' has a larger green wire connected to it that routes into the pump? The Blue 'lead' just stops (and I have 12.4V coming to it)...so what makes it turn the motor? The larger Blue wire comes off the solenoid...so what makes it turn?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-M5jDVm-BiqM/TYQ0FYkpj5I/AAAAAAAAHEk/mkvkd8KOlfA/s800/P3180085.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-5Bd3xm_OhmU/TYQ0HLEaUPI/AAAAAAAAHEk/fQVsgjNUdhI/s800/P3180088.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Kfh14MDn5J8/TYQ35bXib_I/AAAAAAAAHEk/0pGk4N-9NJc/s800/Trim%2520Pump%2520Issues%2520Picture.jpg)
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Looks to me like you've got a single solenoid trim pump, you'll need this diagram instead. The older trim systems didn't use a solenoid to trigger the pump down because (I guess) they felt it wasn't needed. But a solenoid is needed to operate the pump in "up" mode because more current is being drawn to lift the drive. The blue wire that doesn't seem to go anywhere should connect to one of the small terminals of the solenoid, the other to ground. If there's nothing going to the solenoid then remove the small blue wire from that screw terminal post and attach it to the solenoid or install a jumper wire. Also check connections where the red harness plug goes in, I've seen those plugs go bad and sometimes I've had to remove them and just splice the wires together.
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I knew that was screwy. I ran the blue wire around to the terminal on the solenoid and we're good to go. Works great. Thanks!
One more thing done!
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Ok...I've got the gimbal apart...never good when the bellows just slides off.
Pretty sure the shift cable pulls out through the transom right? Do the cable ends come off?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Bq6R-8H5AXE/TY6Yv8sPCDI/AAAAAAAAHEk/tVrFrKCjEfM/s800/P3260084.JPG)
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You have to remove the cable slide from the end of the cable inside the boat, to do that you loosen the two small square screws on the cable end and pull it off, use a pliers to turn the screws. Then unscrew the metal guide tube from the cable. After that you should be able to pull the cable through the transom assembly from the outside.
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Thanks Rich.
Saw Cardinals in the bird feeder today, so I'm getting excited, b/c this boats getting closer and closer to getting in the water.
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Ok...what the hecks the trick to getting the gimbal bearing out? I've got a 3 Claw slide hammer on it, and it isn't budging. I know some have a snap ring, but don't believe mine does...
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Thanks Jeff!
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How heavy is the slide hammer, I think it's got to be a at least a 5 pounder. I've come across plenty that didn't want to come out and you've really got to yank the slide with everything you've got - I know that sounds suggestive but let's stay on topic please, this is a family board. ;)
If it still won't come out here's a little trick I learned - On your bearing you see two slots, one at 8 o'clock and the other at 2 o'clock. The inner part of the bearing that is pressed within that slotted region can pivot 90 degrees and be pulled out through the slots. What I want you to try is to pivot the inner bearing by using some sort of rod and a hammer. Position the rod at the top of the inner race and hit it to knock the upper edge inwards causing the lower edge to pivot outwards. By doing this it can lessen the pressure the outer race is exerting on the transom housing. Clean out all the debris and spray some penetrating oil around the bearing. Then knock the inner race back in place vertical and try pulling the whole bearing out again with the slide hammer.
I noticed though that your bearing had been replaced at least once before as it's in backwards, but that's ok it will still work like it's supposed to. But, when you install the new one I'll tell you how it should be positioned.
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<sigh> Figures its in backwards. I doubt its a 5 lbs slide...my 5 lbs sledge is heavier.
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I use PB Blaster to help get those things out of there, and the blaster works better if it's kept in the house where it's warm over night, I've kept things like that soaked for a couple days, spray and tap, spray and tap, and usually the blaster wins.
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PB Blaster
I love that stuff!
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So...got a couple good ideas. I really hate the idea of whacking on the perfectly re-sealed transom clamp, etc.
Jeff gave me a great idea for a homemade puller, and then I found this tool last night. Figured for $27, why not add another tool to the tool box. Its a Rear Axle Bearing puller set...the smallest one can be used for pulling the gmibal bearing out...so everyone, I'll have this tool around if anyone wants to borrow it for the cost of a couple postage stamps. Not like it'll be in high demand at my house.
http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Tool-Design-ATD-8621-Bearing/dp/B000OUXAIA/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1301597430&sr=1-2 (http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Tool-Design-ATD-8621-Bearing/dp/B000OUXAIA/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1301597430&sr=1-2)
The thread showing its use...looks familiar to your suggested setup Jeff!
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=364003 (http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=364003)
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I buy ATD Wholesale. if anyone wants it.
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Jerry - That's a good deal I'll bet.
I got lucky in that when I was returning the slide hammer to Auto Zone, I asked (b/c its not listed as a tool you can get from their 'Lone A Tool' program) if they had one...and sure enough...Auto Zone has them!
So...got it for Free! Went out with a friend for a pint tonight, but should have it out tomorrow.
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I have an "A Z Commercial" account, and didn't know they loaned out tools, but I think I have them all anyway.
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Yeah, its great. The 'Loan A Tool' deal is...you buy the tool on a credit card...you have 90 days to return the tool for full credit...on the 91st day, its yours b/c you've already paid for it.
So...the 'Free' tool cost me $55 to buy...when I return it later this week, 100% of the cost is returned to my CC. I've used it before and its a good deal, works as advertised, never had an issue returning any tool.
I should say that it is a 'you break it, you bought it' rental...
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I should say that it is a 'you break it, you bought it' rental...
Yup. My local Auto Zone & Advance Auto both have the same policy. Works for me?
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I cannot begin to tell you how easy the gimbal came out using the different tool setup...just so easy...literally 2 mins it was out! No pounding, no transom stress...just so easy.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8BwOCAyTHVE/TZaNOI9eZsI/AAAAAAAAHEk/8qacys5kL7M/s800/P4010085.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gYPwQrCXlow/TZaNOp8gqrI/AAAAAAAAHEk/bozj7kPa03U/s800/P4010086.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-AeOoMFUgWJM/TZaNPGjD4wI/AAAAAAAAHEk/aAuBGlCnoIc/s800/P4010087.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bdpZQMcCy5w/TZaNNMP6SHI/AAAAAAAAHEk/A-zaksmQ9-w/s800/P4010090.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-p01Uh_s6hdE/TZaNMQ8qznI/AAAAAAAAHEk/OFiOrtJO6ns/s800/P4010089.JPG)
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I need to get me one of those tools, and to think I've been doing it the hard way all this time. ;)
What will you be using to install the new bearing? I use a Mercury alignment tool with a bearing driver ring installed on it to pound the new bearing into the assembly. The engine needs to be aligned in order to use this tool to drive in the bearing or you could damage the coupler on the engine. When you install the new one you have to line up the grease hole in the bearing with the grease hole in the transom assembly, shown where I've indicated it in your pic. If you slide the metal spacer around the bearing you should be able to find the grease hole. Install the bearing as far as it will go into the housing and then grease the fitting on the outside of the transom assembly while spinning the bearing by hand until you see some grease ooze out from the bearing. If you've gotten one of the newer issue bearings that don't have a grease hole then it doesn't matter how the bearing is oriented in the housing because you can't grease it anyway. I usually install the bearing with the slotted side facing inwards the way it comes from the factory.
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You know I don't know anything about this stuff...just posting for others in the hopes that my complete lack of knowledge shows that with some help, advice & encouragement...they can do it too...
I am serious though...that came out so easy.
I haven't purchased the new one yet...just got the prop so my boat budget is ever shrinking...dang kids like to eat, wear shoes...and they don't stop growing out of their clothes...stupid stuff like that.
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Ok cool, then when you do pick up the new bearing don't get one of the newer ones you can't grease, try to find the older style you can grease. I've seen problems with the new ones, one being the fact you can't grease them and they don't last - they start singing after a while.
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I haven't purchased the new one yet...just got the prop so my boat budget is ever shrinking...dang kids like to eat, wear shoes...and they don't stop growing out of their clothes...stupid stuff like that.
Amen! it's like they don't realize how expensive these boats are! and they think we go to work because we have nothing better to do! ;) just wait till they have families, and boats, and etc., etc., etc., and try to figure out how to pull it all together. then they'll understand! right...?
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So THATS what a gimbal bearing looks like. :D
Looks like it was well greased at least.
I'd be very interested to see (when you get there) the inner workings from the outdrive to the motor. I've never had and I/O that far apart.
Just came across this. Not sure if these are the good ones like Rich was talking about.
http://www.glmmarine.com/
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Those are they, but they don't say weather or not they can be greased.
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Rosscoe - I'm going with all Mercruiser parts for the bellows, gimbal, shift boot, etc...they're the parts that keep the water out!
I've been told by more that just the folks here, that for those pieces, nothing beats the Mercruiser factory replacements...they last longer, are better quality and worth the money.
It'll be a couple months before I get all the pieces stitched together...I've got my son's surgery bills a coming.
(That all changes if Bluebells sells.)
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Hot diggity! 87 degrees in Des Moines today...I couldn't resist it any longer. Fired right up, ran the motor at 2k RPMs for about 20 mins, everything came up to temp, no leaks, purrs like a kitten. Idle is now set, runs like a top, and I'm excited to get this thing on the water soon.
The sound isn't the best...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soG72xoAWjk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soG72xoAWjk)
(Its boring...start at about 2 mins in...)
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Looking good and getting closer to putting it in the water. Can't wait to see more.
I would check your alternator belt though, it looks a bit loose.
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Looking good and getting closer to putting it in the water. Can't wait to see more.
I would check your alternator belt though, it looks a bit loose.
Its the original belt and sat in the same position for years...so its not 'round' and flexible...I think that's what you're seeing.
I need to replace them...then I'll be able to tell for sure.
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Sweet Doran!!! VERY SWEET!
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Very cool Doran, nothing like the sound of a V8! I know you're glad to have her finally coming back to life, it's all gravy from here. ;)
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Great Job Doran ... sounds and looks Great !
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Having the machine shop dial everything in for me was so worth the money. I didn't have to worry about if the timing was right, if the carb was ok, etc.
Glad that part is all done.
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Does anyone have a secret way to remove those slide on clips that hold the chrome blower vents on? I really don't want to break the plastic peg off trying to remove them.
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Does anyone have a secret way to remove those slide on clips that hold the chrome blower vents on?
Yes but if I told you then it wouldn't be a secret anymore now would it?
J/k, I don't have a clue. But I'd bet there's a way to do it using a punch or mebbe some kinda flat 'pick'?
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LOOKIN' GOOD DORAN !
And soundin' sweet !
Hope she makes it to Red Wing this year ...
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Sounds nice and strong. Great job Doran!
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Ran the boat some more today, just making sure there are no leaks (which I did find & fix today), and other issues...which...I did find a couple of those too...
Anyone notice a problem? Don't know how I missed it:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TZ0O2ymiAfI/AAAAAAAAGaU/hIeFavFC6yg/s800/P4050091.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TZ0O3T8aL-I/AAAAAAAAGaA/9npNsjAcjzE/s800/P4050092.JPG)
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Cracked riser/elbow. I had that happen to me on my old Mercruiser 120. I bought a used but still good elbow on ebay for $20 to replace it for the eventual day when I resell the engine which is sitting covered in my yard.
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Yep...doesn't leak much, but a drop every 20 secs. I stuffed a towel in there and ran it for about 30 mins...towel was only a little damp in places...but still an issue that will need attention.
Assuming that welding it in place is a bad idea?
I also have trim oil leak from this piece. Its leak at the center, not at the connection points. I've tightened the screws down, but...its still leaking. Assuming I need to replace this piece?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/TWBSEHKAb8I/AAAAAAAAGLY/pLzOBv7K94Q/s800/P2180087.JPG)
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I wonder if there's a seal or gasket that can be found to fix that. I've never taken one apart so I don't know for sure. I've seen those reverse lock-out valves on ebay.
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Don't waste your money .... they crack inside and outside. Better to just find a new one. That cast iron is not easy to weld and finding the extent of the crack is very aggravating. Remember my CV-21 issues.... ?
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Doran,
be very careful with that exhaust manifold... if there is a crack on the inside as well, you could be leaking water back into the motor through the exhaust valves, and creating a very dangerous situation. I would consider not running the engine again until it's replaced. I think most would agree that it is good insurance to replace cast manifolds and risers every so often, and it may be time. if there is one crack now, there will be more soon to follow, if not already. just don't want to see anything happen to that nice new motor...
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Will do Wex!
I know I'm not getting any oil/water mix (at least for now) I've been constantly checking the oil and its still clean as a whistle. I might have to change it again just to triple check.
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Hey Doran do you want me to stop by and can change your oil in minutes trust i have alot of oil in last couple of years ;D
Tom
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Will do Wex!
I know I'm not getting any oil/water mix (at least for now) I've been constantly checking the oil and its still clean as a whistle. I might have to change it again just to triple check.
absolutely, I think checking the oil often is a good idea, especially with a new motor. My concern with the water leak would be that it is draining back into the cylinder thru the exhaust valve, and pooling on top of a piston. It increases the compression and will bend a connecting rod, destroy main bearings, break cranks, etc. It's actually unfortunately fairly common, and usually caused by failing exhaust manifolds. Again, just don't wanna see anything happen to your fresh powerplant.
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Hey Doran do you want me to stop by and can change your oil in minutes trust i have alot of oil in last couple of years ;D
Tom
Ha! I bet you could!
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absolutely, I think checking the oil often is a good idea, especially with a new motor. My concern with the water leak would be that it is draining back into the cylinder thru the exhaust valve, and pooling on top of a piston. It increases the compression and will bend a connecting rod, destroy main bearings, break cranks, etc. It's actually unfortunately fairly common, and usually caused by failing exhaust manifolds. Again, just don't wanna see anything happen to your fresh powerplant.
That would be the end of my time with Goldie. Don't think I could take that!
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Any reason this wouldn't work? I'm assuming, of course, that the elbow is a universal part...
http://desmoines.craigslist.org/boa/2300748230.html (http://desmoines.craigslist.org/boa/2300748230.html)
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They are not all universal but from the chart on Marine parts.com it looks like the 140 and 898 use the same elbow. I do not see any water inlet on those though, all plugs. You may have a heck of a time getting a plug out of that. Heating the plug with a torch might do the trick.
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Looks like that ad is gone. Did you resolve this?
If not, the guy I talked to today said he might have something but I didnt know what size you need.
I'll give you his email if you like.
Here is a link to his website. Email is there. If he has something, I can probably pick it up for you.
http://www.samsmarineandperformance.com/
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Thanks Roscoe. Goldie is currently on hold for the moment...but, I'll let you know!
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Doran
Hope goldie sells for you, if she goes will it be local so you can give her a pat on the hull once and a while.
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I'd hate to announce something before its done...its really not my place. But...yes, its local.
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???
I thought you had Bluebell for sale?
You did say you'd sell either one I guess.
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I had both...but after thinking long and hard about it, Goldie's the right one to go. I'm an outboard guy for the most part...and the only reason I was holding on to Goldie was out of memory for my Dad...but the memories will still be there.
I'll get to see Goldie any time I'm in the TC's, or Minnetonka, or MN River Run or Red Wing...or...
;D
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Doran what are talking about where is going?
Tom
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Must be another member.
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Doran what are talking about where is going?
Tom
Last I heard...your house.
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Must be another member.
Ok, Yes, Goldie will most likely be going to TomLund. (I want him to see it in person first...)
I knew he was frustrated with his boat, wanted to update, so I offered him a motor attached to a free CVZ-18...or something like that. Its a weekend away from being water ready...(not perfect mind you) but ready for some on water testing...so I know he's hoping for some local club assistance to mount the outdrive when he's ready.
Its not a perfect boat by any means...but I know Tom will finish what I started. I'll be anxious to see it running and participating at the Red Wing meet in August.
Seeing it on the water will be awesome & hugely gratifying.
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After a brief stay at Jeff's house today, Goldie has arrived at Tom's.
So...this thread is officially his! Carry On Tom!
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Well Yes Goldie is at her new home very excited to dig in and get working on it. Thank You Doran for driving is a$$ off to make it happen and Thank You to Jeff for a place to pick it up. I will do my best to keep up the thread i quess i should invest in a camera lol
Tom
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Outstanding guys! WooHoo!!! Yup Tom yer gonna need a camera, cuz we're gonna be needin some pics...
Best of luck with the project! Carry on.
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Ok not sure what to do took out the fuel sending unit tonight and that gas tank is junk full of rust. So i have 2 plans .. I take up the floor but i really don't want to do that. 2nd is to close off the bow put in a new tank and make that one big sun tan area.
Thoughts
Tom
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Ok not sure what to do took out the fuel sending unit tonight and that gas tank is junk full of rust. So i have 2 plans .. I take up the floor but i really don't want to do that. 2nd is to close off the bow put in a new tank and make that one big sun tan area.
Thoughts
Tom
Ugh...
The original CVZ-18 does have a removable floor for access to the fuel tank...my fall back plan was to put back in the removable center section of the floor if the tank ended up being junk. So...you could go that route...but yeah, that involves more fiberglass work, etc.
If you don't want to mess with the floor how about putting the tank under the bench seat base?
Glad you're getting after it.
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Cut her open and put in a removable section. I would use a circular saw and adjust it so it only cuts down whatever the thickness of the floor is. Cut over the center of the boards shown in these pictures. Then put in a plastic Tempo tank.
Or...............
Pull the motor and put it in the V174!!!
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_YWp9sNOOhnY/Ss1vcVUTeWI/AAAAAAAAFUQ/xUnxPZ8Wy_k/s800/PA070011.JPG)
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Cut her open and put in a removable section. I would use a circular saw and adjust it so it only cuts down whatever the thickness of the floor is. Cut over the center of the boards shown in these pictures. Then put in a plastic Tempo tank.
Or...............
Pull the motor and put it in the V174!!!
Tom has a 'Get of a Jail Free' card he can use. There were/are 2 unknowns with Goldie, the fuel tank & the outdrive. I knew forgetting to pull that tank could be problematic.
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Ok, Tom's decided that he really doesn't want to get into the tank R&R. Which, I knew was a big overcite on my part. It was getting cold last fall, I got in a groove and glassed the floor in and 2 weeks later had the 'Oh Susanna!' moment. (That's the 'G' rated version anyway.)
SO...Goldie will be back in IA soon. Gonna suck it up and finish it...unless someone needs a project. :) Or...wants a ready to run boat in Bluebell.
Still wanting to get down to 1 boat, and I honestly don't care which! :) Someone make up my mind...please!
And just to be clear, Tom and I are 100% cool. This club is an extended family and there's no way anyone can really see the work left to be done on the boat until they see it in person, which is why I told Tom he could bow out for any reason, and I meant that.
So...the push to have it at the meet this summer begins. I think its probably really tough to take over someone else's project only b/c in my mind, I have the steps all worked out to get it on the water.
Tom - maybe you can charge a viewing fee before Saturday? :D
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I could but thats not to fair its a great boat love the lines just more then i can fit in money and time wise. Thanks Doran for understanding.
Tom
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Ok...so, early Father's Day present for me! (I caught some great prices on Amazon.com early this week!)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZQ2yAol8ZQs/TeqQOcxcPWI/AAAAAAAAGmg/vkfbkZCHNos/s800/P6030189.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uhTp44jrf8Y/TeqQO5UEZWI/AAAAAAAAHEk/dB7dY28B5eY/s800/P6030190.JPG)
($35.00 for the alignment tool...couldn't pass that up!)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MkwsSGwUwEs/TeqQPaU8F-I/AAAAAAAAHEk/D3ochxYfgz4/s800/P6030191.JPG)
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Good to be a Father !
How's you son doing ?
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Son's a 100% better...so we're in the clear there. It was a long recovery though! Thanks!
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Good to hear !
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Did you by any chance get the gimbal bearing installation ring with the alignment tool so you can install the bearing?
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I did not...I was planning on cranking it in with some all-thread, essentially the reverse of how I removed it. I'm trying not to have to pound on the transom. I think its strong, but since its poured...I'm not sure about beating on it...sounds dumb...but, there you go.
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Still need them ?
Not sure if they fit or if it's a good deal money wise ...
1 Pr. Exhaust Manifolds -Merc 350 - $180 (Frankfort, Il
http://chicago.craigslist.org/sox/boa/2423915843.html
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Thanks Gregg. A new elbow can be had for $90.00, so worst case, I'll go that route. Right now I'm focusing on getting the gimbal bearing, bellows, shift cable, engine aligned, etc, etc...
Then I've got the bilge blower & bilge pump on the way today as well.
I don't need to run the engine for a while until I finish up the tank, connect the fuel line, etc.
That's my plan anyway!
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Ok, how best to seal up the shift cable nut against the gimbal housing? The farm kid in me says teflon tape...but I'm guessing there's another option? Some thread sealer I'm thinking?
Bellows & water intake tube attached...and...I forgot I need to order trim pucks...crap!
And what tool do I need to press that silver ring tight around the shift cable boot?
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I used a little plumber's pipe sealant called Gripp (sp?) on the shift cable threads, or even high strength Locktite Threadlocker. For the retaining clip I used a channel-lock pliers to squeeze it but go around it and squeeze in several different spots so it stays round and grips the boot evenly all the way around.
When you install the cable wire into the shift slide at the bell housing install the retaining set screw loosely so the slide can spin freely on the cable but have no front-to-back play, the set screw should just make contact but not so tight that it locks to the cable ball. Then you use the stainless wire to lock the set screw to the slide, figure 8 the wire on the slide and twist the wire together, cut the excess leaving about a quarter inch twisted pigtail tucked in between the set screw and the wire wrap post.
On the engine end of the cable thread the brass tube (with adjustment barrel and nut already threaded onto it) into the cable all the way and lock it in place with the nut. Make sure you install the smaller guide tube into the brass tube. When you install the black plastic cable slide the inner cable has to pass through the retaining lock and the visual check hole before locking it in place with the two small square screws.
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I should have taken more pictures! ;)
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Ok...what the heck is the trick for getting the shift bellows over the little hump on the engine side of the cable so I can slide it down to its correct position?
I've tried dish soap and that lubricated it fine, but I can't stretch it over the end of the cable sheath. I can try more force, but I don't want to tear it.
So...what's the technique?
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Use a little wheel bearing grease just on the end of the cable where it's thickest and push the bellows on collapsed like a pancake. Slide it all the way close to the bell housing then put the cable through the hole in the transom assembly. Don't put the little retainer collar on the small end of the bellows until last when everything is installed and the bellows rests in it's final position on the cable. Use some bellows adhesive (or contact cement if you don't have bellows adhesive) to "glue" the large end of the bellows to the transom assembly before putting the clamp on. The clamp should be oriented with the screw on the right side facing down. Speaking of which I hope you also use bellows adhesive on the drive bellows.
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Yes, there is bellows adhesive on the bellows & the 'square' ring on the inside of the gimbal housing. I took notes when I took everything off, there was also bellows adhesive on the water intake hose, so I did that as well.
I'm just trying to get as much as I can done while I wait for the trim pucks to arrive.
Speaking of which...how do I get the wires out of the sealed plug where they go through the transom? I'm thinking that would have been easier when it was all off the boat...
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Putting the trim pucks in is easier to do before you install the drive and exhaust bellows. I think it's just a matter of removing two small bolts to undo the retainer plate holding the wires in place above the gimbal bearing. The upper bolt is a real pain to get to. I made my own special tool using a small socket that I ground down and installed a bolt head onto the back of it so I can turn the retaining bolt using a small open-end wrench. My tool is basically a bolt head extension that gives me another half-inch to work with.
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Well, a little creative thinking, and some inspiration from Jeff on how to remove the gimbal bearing...its back in. $15.00 and about 15 mins while the chicken was on the grill:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8BwOCAyTHVE/TZaNOI9eZsI/AAAAAAAAHEk/8qacys5kL7M/s800/P4010085.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gYPwQrCXlow/TZaNOp8gqrI/AAAAAAAAHEk/bozj7kPa03U/s800/P4010086.JPG)
A little PVC, a pipe fitting and a couple washers...and its a mini-press:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lHTksX3eksQ/TfAbDkf-wgI/AAAAAAAAHEk/ibj9HDITuuY/s800/P6080195.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-K9tGLtABHUk/TfAbF0PM6MI/AAAAAAAAHEk/hDN_AHcsWLE/s800/P6080198.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-R5VNyXKYAvc/TfAbHGh9S7I/AAAAAAAAHEk/EwLiAMlZ0xA/s800/P6080200.JPG)
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Bravo! I see you already removed the retaining plate for the trim puck wires or is just the lower bolt taken out or broken?. The old wires should just pull right out with the plate removed. Install the new ones with a little bellows adhesive to help seal it in.
Oh, when you install the drive bellows it's important to orient it properly, there is a front & back as well as a top & bottom. Top is usually marked on the lip at both ends, the end with the flat sides goes to the transom shield, the round sides to the bell housing.
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Bravo! I see you already removed the retaining plate for the trim puck wires or is just the lower bolt taken out or broken?. The old wires should just pull right out with the plate removed. Install the new ones with a little bellows adhesive to help seal it in.
Oh, when you install the drive bellows it's important to orient it properly, there is a front & back as well as a top & bottom. Top is usually marked on the lip at both ends, the end with the flat sides goes to the transom shield, the round sides to the bell housing.
Yes, the plate came out no prob...a little hard to get to...but came out. Unfortunately, the wires were so disintegrated they just fell off, and the little bits in the holes are all thats left...can I just push those through/out?
The bellow was labeled pretty idiot proof...it says on top 'Top/Forward' and 'Top/Aft'...so Sierra did a nice job there.
I'm working on the engine alignment now...just appears to need a 1/2 turn down and I should be pretty close.
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What's left of the trim wires that's stuck in the transom should pop right out and you'll be left with a hole about a half inch in diameter. The new wires will have a rubber molding on them to fit into and seal the hole.
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What's left of the trim wires that's stuck in the transom should pop right out and you'll be left with a hole about a half inch in diameter. The new wires will have a rubber molding on them to fit into and seal the hole.
So the whole rubber plug comes out...got it! Thanks again!
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And we're done!!!! Slid in smooth as butter...then had to take it off again b/c I didn't pay close enough attention to the gasket I should have used.
I have a little more fine tuning on the shift cable adjustment...but, shifts smooth, no issues.
Just need to change the impeller and gear lube. (I did make sure it was pumping water as is of course...before running the motor for an extended period of time.)
Another shameless video:
http://youtu.be/t_KabXJa1yM (http://youtu.be/t_KabXJa1yM)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZNwzeNVIxGg/TfQw3tuf0zI/AAAAAAAAHEk/aM1gzk7eiMY/s800/P6110220.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DUz_plnk7xM/TfQw4R_ST1I/AAAAAAAAHEk/Lk9AmL1IH1U/s800/P6110221.JPG)
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Fantastic! Talk about a sense of accomplishment! Decided what to do with your interior yet? I know you have been back and forth over weather to use the engine cover or build in a sundeck. Seems you were leaning toward the sundeck.
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Fantastic! Talk about a sense of accomplishment! Decided what to do with your interior yet? I know you have been back and forth over weather to use the engine cover or build in a sundeck. Seems you were leaning toward the sundeck.
Yeah, Golide's getting a sundeck & swim platform hung off the back (eventually). I still need some basic things like...batteries...and to finish sanding the floor & adding the pedestal mount wood for the seats.
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btw...doing the bellows...sucked.
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Way to keep after her. Impressive Doran. Quite the learning experience!
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And we're done!!!! Slid in smooth as butter...then had to take it off again b/c I didn't pay close enough attention to the gasket I should have used.
I have a little more fine tuning on the shift cable adjustment...but, shifts smooth, no issues.
Just need to change the impeller and gear lube. (I did make sure it was pumping water as is of course...before running the motor for an extended period of time.)
Looking awesome! Good idea on changing the impeller. It doesn't look as though it's pumping a whole lot of water in the video but I'm still skeptical about the exhaust elbows being clear inside.
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Good Job Doran, but, Rich is right, you got to find out why you don't have more water coming out the prop barrel, the only water I see is coming out through the by-pass ports on the gimbal housing, ya gotta get more flow than that before ya back it in the lake.
Here's a video of mine, even though I got thru-hulls, that much water should be coming out through your prop barrel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWBEge3c4Pk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWBEge3c4Pk)
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You should have a waterfall of action coming out the two bypass ports on the transom shield, even more so than what comes out the prop. But I notice you have the performance exhaust tube so a lot of water is not going to make it to the prop, but instead will pour out from between the transom and drive. Still, you need to have more coming out the bypass ports. Here's a youtube vid of mine running on the hose. Even though mine is "one-sided" you can see just how much comes out of the starboard port.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXX7wYnBsxs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXX7wYnBsxs)
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Yeah, you guys are right...checked my other videos with it running. I need to get that separated and a new impeller installed...definitely not as much water as there should be (or used to be).
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Yeah...dropping the lower to change the impeller...just confirming that I put the drive in forward, remove the bolts and it should pull out correct? (I'll check my manual as well.)
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No, you don't need to have the shift in forward for dropping the lower gearcase, that's only needed for removing and reinstalling the drive to the bell housing. But you do have to drain the gear oil. You also have my number, you can call me any time you have a question.
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Ok, dropped the LU. Impeller looks excellent. I did find a rats next in one part of the cavity, but shouldn't have effected water intake. (Will be replaced regardless) I'll get in new gear lube tomorrow and see how we do.
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Here's where I say USE ONLY AN OEM MERCURY IMPELLER. ;D
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Here's where I say USE ONLY AN OEM MERCURY IMPELLER. ;D
10-4!
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Ok...new genuine Mercruiser impeller...and looks a lot better!
http://youtu.be/zEDf50xS_sA (http://youtu.be/zEDf50xS_sA)
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Yes, much better!
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yeah, that looks ALOT better!
you are movin' on this project! a good motivator for the rest of us!
I am still concerned about the internals of those manifolds, have you had them pressure tested? don't underestimate how quickly an internal leak can waste that new motor. I know I've harped on this, but I just don't want to see you have to tear it down for a new piston, or rod, or crank, or worse... just lookin' out for ya, and for that fresh powerplant! ;D maybe I worry too much...
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Ok...new genuine Mercruiser impeller...and looks a lot better!
Good Job Doran ... that looks like it's suposed too, I didn't realize you don't have an exhaust bellows on it, that will give the motor a little tone idling around the docks.
George didn't have one on his either, here's a video of his.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFK7cypu1Ds (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFK7cypu1Ds)
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Holy cow...2 1/2 weeks until my vacation in Park Rapids...and Bluebell's sold...um...guess I need to get a move on! :o
I might be in trouble!
Man...the credit card will be getting a workout today...I've got to get moving!
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...and Bluebell's sold...
whoa! whoa! whoa! Now you sold Blue Bell??? First it was for sale, then it wasn't, then it was??
Who's the buyer? Member?
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:o Now there is motivation!!! And ya ... who? Where? Like yesterday I guess?
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:o Now there is motivation!!! And ya ... who? Where? Like yesterday I guess?
He's coming down on Friday to get it. I'm pretty sure the deal is solid...but one never knows till cash is in hand.
Its heading back to Northern IA, so we'll see. He's aware of the club, and I'll do some additional encouragement on Friday.
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Congrats on *hopefully* selling Bluebell!
Now start charging that credit card without remorse...and keep up the good work 8)
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ah ha!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200619690175&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200619690175&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123)
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Busted!
I listed Bluebell on 5 local CL's...only to have zero hits. Listed it at 4AM on Tues and had it sold at 9AM. I had guys from OK, KY, CA & IA all claiming to want it, and 3 of them seems pretty serious.
I also had an African Prince offering me 1/2 of his fortune...but I'd have to ship it to him in PENNSYLVANIA first. Care to guess who that might have been?
Crazy.
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African prince you say? Hmmm...
Don't suppose he offered to mail you a personal check once it arrives?
Heh, heh, heh...
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Took Friday off to help Bluebell's new owner get on his way...and work on Goldie. He's thrilled with Bluebell...and grew up with a CV-23 Jet as a kid...so, he'll be around I'm hoping.
(He figured out Bluebell's starting issue in about 30 secs...and as a mechanic, I think he's gonna be a great owner.)
So...I got a good couple of days working on Goldie. I still have some fiberglassing to do on the wood, but its in.
Got the engine cover mocked in:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7ogjfhsVg4M/Tf66OFpcSmI/AAAAAAAAGrM/Ii1Jl023yBg/s800/P6180230.JPG)
I'm putting in drop in panels so I have access to the engine when its time to service it or winterize:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OKEqHn6nWL0/Tf66QFnm2yI/AAAAAAAAGrU/m1tZF30-5Mk/s800/P6180232.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QAhGtXNP4Q4/Tf66VBvGHII/AAAAAAAAHEk/gVyjKf3SdN4/s800/P6190238.JPG)
Trailer is getting close. New LED lights and I added some side markers as well. I'm having a heck of a time getting one wheel off. PB Blaster has helped getting 3 of the 5 lugs loose, so I'll keep at it.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vxukt27zjW0/Tf66SUfWejI/AAAAAAAAGrg/RrAEqxhU4hs/s800/P6180235.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CYo0Z_ET2xA/Tf66TJkq_yI/AAAAAAAAHEk/tN6qYeMlVr8/s800/P6180236.JPG)
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Ok, FINALLY got the last bolt loose. It took 4 days of PB Blaster soak time & a big breaker bar to get them all off...
I've been burning the candle at both ends trying to get Goldie ready...10 days until our big trip!
Wiring is all cleaned up, and the sections to hold in the removable engine dividers. I don't think I'll get them sealed up before the trip...but they'll be fine.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7fr_ehU0VLo/Tf66QwqrAeI/AAAAAAAAHEk/uzlHMyy8WlI/s800/P6180233.JPG)
I found some cheap Indoor/Outdoor carpet to make the top panels out of...its not bad, but they won't be staying long term.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Vxukt27zjW0/Tf66SUfWejI/AAAAAAAAHEk/_EH5TDdA55c/s800/P6180235.JPG)
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Blaster and a breaker bar Hmmm....sounds all to familiar. Goldie is looking great. Hope you get it ready for the trip. Have fun.!
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The panels look great. I really like the idea of the "walkable" panels back there to tell the truth. The foam cover/padded panels are nice but honestly they never get used in the sense of a cushion. Last year seeing Olereds platform which was also put in as a temporary fix seemed very functional. I have a padded deck panel on my 21 that I think I will replace with a carpeted panel as well. It is always soaked with water and very heavy.
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The intent, and final goal, is to have a swing up bench seat back that can be locked 'Up' to form individual sundecks on either side of the engine cover. I'm hoping to have that in place by tomorrow night with the tow bar 'pod' in place as well.
The bench seat backs I'm having made will add another 2 feet to the overall length and should give my wife (and eventually my daughter) each a place to layout.
I'll have to eventually take this apart and seal the wood...plus they'll be getting recovered with upholstery to match the interior that is coming.
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..............have a swing up bench seat back that can be locked 'Up' to form individual sundecks...........
Awesome idea!
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Progress Update:
Both pads are done & retractable tow bar is installed:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mvquFJqNVLU/TgF4XzTcqJI/AAAAAAAAHEk/TeKSSlAtbzE/s800/P6200230.JPG)
Starboard side storage area is done:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-E-6V3yidELU/TgF4YkJCguI/AAAAAAAAHEk/J-JtNZaAeOE/s800/P6200231.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HUnAhbqJvng/TgF4ZUhbzII/AAAAAAAAHEk/-eU3EGuOyn8/s800/P6200232.JPG)
Port side:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-GiphJzxaqfo/TgF4bo2wnVI/AAAAAAAAHEk/Mu7ktT9rQe8/s800/P6210235.JPG)
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Looking good! Keep up the good work! I think I will be changing my back pads also to something stronger for ppl to stand on. Good Idea!
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Looks great!! Have you done much more buffing or tried any wet sanding?
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Looks great!! Have you done much more buffing or tried any wet sanding?
Harbor Freight $30.00 buffer arrived today. Plan on starting that tonight.
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Kickin butt. Looks good.
How are you keeping those drop in panels in place? I like the idea of the seat back swinging up to extend the sun pad, not to mention engine access.
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The drop panels are slide in...they are held be wood slot on either end. I'm pressing on hoping to be finished (as far as I can be anyway) today...then buffing & polishing the rest of the week.
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More progress today. I've got a little glue bleeding through as the kids were in the boat and the glue wasn't dry yet.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-gLE1xRdc5T0/Tgf6RHmBfZI/AAAAAAAAHEk/hwZiKspwWPM/s800/P6260232.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_oG1r3agSFY/Tgf6TDlXvYI/AAAAAAAAHEk/6B_8B7dxrI8/s800/P6260235.JPG)
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Are you going to have a chance to dunk it before your vacation?
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Did you do anything with the petro tank?
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The gas tank has been 'creatively cleaned'. We'll see if it works. I've got an extra in-line viewable filter so I can monitor & clean out if necessary.
Ok, today's progress. I'm out of time, so I had to adopt a 'That'll do' mentality. I roughed in a flimsy & ugly rear seat & seat backs. It'll work for our trip, but let the record show...its ugly & I'm not happy with it.
Spent some time with the $30.00 Harbor Freight buffer today, starting to show some promise:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-390s551wVGk/TglusKchNJI/AAAAAAAAGwU/9xxX64NR5fA/s800/P6270229.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-UajX5Z1eo8Q/TglutrO-utI/AAAAAAAAHEk/F9EIUNR77qk/s800/P6270230.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Bag-k74ZsGk/TgluujWK_ZI/AAAAAAAAHEk/Ao5Epe_6P0g/s800/P6270231.JPG)
The seats look like an elephant with the runs was in the boat...but again...'That'll do' until my interior arrives in Aug.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NJCpwMTrZqw/TgluwSzKLiI/AAAAAAAAHEk/NLWftSHWBUk/s800/P6270233.JPG)
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Man is that ugly. Walked out passed the boat to leave for work...I just keep telling myself...it'd do until the interior comes...its not permanent.
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Under the cooler and a beach towel ... will look just fine. And you will not have to yell at anyone because they are standing on your new cushions!!! Keep up the good work!
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Yes, we can use it without regard to the upholstery...its meant to be used...and used, and used.
Dunking tonight...as near as I've been able to tell, it hasn't been used in 15 years, so I'm excited to get it wet!
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Looks pretty good for a "quickie" Doran, if you hit the white parts with a little brown spray paint, it would hardly be noticeable. Nice re-design, I like it. How'd the maiden voyage (relaunch) go?
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Looks pretty good for a "quickie" Doran, if you hit the white parts with a little brown spray paint, it would hardly be noticeable. Nice re-design, I like it. How'd the maiden voyage (relaunch) go?
I haven't floated it yet...I wanted to make sure my insurance was to snuff...just in case. Planning on dunking floating it tonight.
Yep, it'll work for this summer. I hope to have my real seats in for the meet, but the rear bench may not make it. Then I have the winter to do the rest of the upholstery.
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Well, a successful water test tonight. No video, very busy ramps. I think everyone knows I'll post tons when I get back from vacation!
The water stayed on the outside, and it ran just fine. I did not go 'out' on the boat, just floated off the trailer, ran it for a few mins then back on the trailer, and checked the bilge for water.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sy_Bcrt9Zr8/TgvhlxtSwaI/AAAAAAAAGx0/nE4cc7q05To/s800/100_0001.JPG)
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Attaboy Dor, stop teasing us and get the thing wet for cripes sake! Did you put it in gear and back a few times to check out the shift operation? Notice how the shift interrupt operates when it's in the water?
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Attaboy Dor, stop teasing us and get the thing wet for cripes sake! Did you put it in gear and back a few times to check out the shift operation? Notice how the shift interrupt operates when it's in the water?
I didn't Rich. Of the 16 ramps at the lake only 4 are usable b/c of the high water levels, and they were pretty busy. I'll have all the time & no pressure of a launch ramp for the next 8 days, so I'm planning to do the fine tuning when I get up there.
I'm hoping the power steering is ok as well.
The video camera is all charged up.
I can't thank you enough for the help & guidance Rich!
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Doran
We will going up north of Park Rapids on Bad Medicine Lake over the 4th weekend.
I think you mentioned that is the area you are going?
May get a chance to see each other
Jeff
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Compeneros in Dorset Sunday night. Have one for me!!
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Doran
We will going up north of Park Rapids on Bad Medicine Lake over the 4th weekend.
I think you mentioned that is the area you are going?
May get a chance to see each other
Jeff
Yep, we're North of PR as well. Boot Lake - by Two Inlets...
Holy crap...we're like 10 miles from each other. Small world! We're at Half Moon Trail Resort.
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Compeneros in Dorset Sunday night. Have one for me!!
Jerry - We've tried going twice...both times they were closed. Kids like the Logging Camp...its a total rip off, but we're a fan of 'Big Breakfasts' and the kids like harassing the chickens...so I'm sure we'll be going there again this year.
We also really love Rocky's Pizza in PR.
Heading to St. Cloud first thing tomorrow, can't wait!
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We have a camper at elkhorn resort on south twin lake which is north of 113 on county road 4 west of bad medicine lake about 5-6 miles, will float the 235 there this weekend, our son will have the 212 on cass lake checking out star island. would rather be up at the cabin on lake of the woods but this will work out ok.
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Decisions, decisions huh? ;D We'd love to have a place up North, but its 400 miles to PR, and I just don't think that makes it an easy weekend getaway...
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Logging camp is nasty. West forty just outside of town, great food good price, You will thank me.
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Success! Boats runnung great, shifts fine. No power steering though...but I'm not complaining.
Feels darn good to be on the water with it. Kids are having a blast...and that's the whole point!
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Awsome! Where's the video?
Why no power steering? If the cable is tight then you're fighting against the cable and the power steering doesn't do any good. The cable needs to be bind-free to reap the benefits of power steering. If that's the case replace the cable if you can.
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Glad to hear she's running out okay Doran, ENJOY!
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Video will have to wait...satellite internet is too slow, but rest assured, I have some!
Steering is manageable without ps working...so just gonna enjoy!
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More later...still getting unpacked!
99% Successful trip! (No leaks, no engine troubles, it was a thoroughly enjoyable trip.)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UxM68KDQ-x4/ThjY1WpDAbI/AAAAAAAAGzU/GvErkDF6_7E/s800/100_0003.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hstTPF5u_1c/ThjY9e7w7UI/AAAAAAAAGz4/1WOflWXN_w0/s800/100_0022.JPG)
Kids messing around with the new tube:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-f36pD2b17Vw/ThjZMRoCH_I/AAAAAAAAG0w/BDD45vOVB8o/s800/100_0036.JPG)
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Beautiful calendar-worthy pics! Love that boat!
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With all the bad luck lately ... Glad you had an uneventful week !
I second the vote for " Beautiful calendar-worthy pics ! "
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Yeah, of 5 boats at the resort, mine & 1 other were the only ones that didn't have issues.
Video:
http://youtu.be/-mpDeYI23xg (http://youtu.be/-mpDeYI23xg)
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That boat looks and sounds great and it looks like you were having fun with it. I think you finally get the allure of having an I/O. How do you think it compares to the other boat with the outboard?
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Good work man! Keep it up! Lookin great! I like how you did the engine bay panels. ;)
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Well, I've had I/O's before...so I don't like or dislike either. BUT...I'm happy I have Goldie. No headaches from the exhaust (my wife gets them from a 2-Stroke Outboard), so I'm happy b/c she's happy.
I'm most happy that I know this boat inside and out and with the new engine it should be a good boat for a long time to come. Its much quieter, and that's awesome!
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That's awesome Doran! Some should give you some motivation to pull through and get her done. Whatever you did to the gas tank must have worked!
Nice V8 sound! I am jealous!
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Nicely done, you should be very proud...
Joe
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That's awesome Doran! Some should give you some motivation to pull through and get her done. Whatever you did to the gas tank must have worked!
Nice V8 sound! I am jealous!
Yeah...my 'trick' didn't work so well. Remember how I said it was 99% successful trip? :) Here's the 1%...:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Xj5Ac9Nq9rQ/Thksm-xr_FI/AAAAAAAAHEk/XimgKfoz0JM/s800/P7070298.JPG)
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Sounds like you had a good week on the Lake!
We just got back from a 2200 mile boat trip last month, we averaged 22.5 knots for 7 days, I spent most of my time in the Casino...Freedom of the Seas...Royal Caribbean it was a good trip....
Joe
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Yeah, we're hoping to try one of the new megaliners next year.
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Yeah...my 'trick' didn't work so well. Remember how I said it was 99% successful trip? :) Here's the 1%...:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Xj5Ac9Nq9rQ/Thksm-xr_FI/AAAAAAAAHEk/XimgKfoz0JM/s800/P7070298.JPG)
Oh man does that look familiar :'( What are you gonna do about the tank??
Really happy everything has worked out for you and Goldie. Gotta feel good to finally be able to use it!
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Yep, I had that same problem with my tank when it was rusty. Problem is that the filter will not catch all of the rust and I was getting rust build up in the carbs too causing other problems. I hate to say it but your gonna have to cut the floor open and replace the tank. Or you can maybe get away with running outboard tanks for a while....
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Yup...just gotta decide what to do...
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My thought is to put in a 1/2 size Auxillary tank back in the floor, use some of the opening for a ski locker, and put a tank under the bench seat...but...that's just a thought for the moment...
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Excellent! Glad to see you pulled it off and got it done in time and had NO issues. THAT has got to feel good!
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If there is someway you can get it back in the floor that is best. If you put the tank in the back you will have a ton of weight back there along with the engine and battery and especially when you have passengers too.
Really happy to see you managed to get it back on the water though!
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If there is someway you can get it back in the floor that is best. If you put the tank in the back you will have a ton of weight back there along with the engine and battery and especially when you have passengers too.
Really happy to see you managed to get it back on the water though!
I agree with you. Its stern heavy already...moving the tank back would be bad.
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Steering wheel disintegrated during the trip...is it truly just take the top nut off and use a steering wheel puller to get it off? I'd like to get Tom's replacement on the boat this week.
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Doran you must be very satisfied. Having watched multiple threads, and seen where you started and the finished product! What an accomplishment. The boat looks to be performing awesome. The way it moves accross the water in true Carlson fashion.
Great Job. Great Boat.
Andy
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To take off the steering wheel loosen the nut so it's flush with the end of the shaft, do not remove the nut. While pulling hard on the rim of the wheel whack the nut/shaft with a very heavy hammer and the wheel should "pop" free from the shaft, the nut will stop it from flying off and hitting you in the face. The nut also prevents the end of the shaft from getting damaged by the hammer.
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..........the nut will stop it from flying off and hitting you in the face........
Thats a funny mental picture!
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I ended up melting the steering wheel off, then heating the hub and taking the air chisel to it. You can't cut the shaft with a torch. I have no idea what it's made of. It only kind of melts. Sometimes they just don't come off.
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Andy - Thanks. Yes, its a good feeling to be able to use the boat FINALLY. Although its far from done, its usable, and the rest is gravy!
Rich - Hoping to get that replaced tomorrow. Next trip to the lake is Friday!
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Hmm...the steering wheel is already wobbly on the shaft. Taking the nut off it doesn't pull off (didn't expect it to...) but hopefully that means its not frozen on solid?
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Try Rich's trick but squirt a little PB Blaster on the spline before giving it a good whack.
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Starting to shine up a bit. (But man its a lot of work!)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lz4QsLtqqC0/Th0VfXpLSaI/AAAAAAAAHEk/2EBLh3U_E4w/s800/100_0074.JPG)
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Hey Doran .. I just watched your video again, realized I had not made a comment on how nice Goldie looks in the water, you done a Great Job buddy.
About the tank .. I put a sixteen gallon tank under tha back seat in my Scimitar last year, before we came to Red Wing, and I Love it, gives me a total fuel capasity of 52 gallons. When I'm running locally, I just run off the back tank, and only a few gallons in the bow tank, it's 36 gallons. My prop had lot's of lift built into it, bow and stern, taking the 240 pound of weight out of the bow made a few mph increase in the speed.
Don't you boat run on a pad ? seems like I remember they do ?
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Yes, it does run on a pad.
And its very light up front now. I have to keep it trimmed way down otherwise it porpoises pretty badly.
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That pad will carry more weight than the V with-out affecting the performance as much, and, the pad adds some efficiency of the prop, less disturbance of the water getting to it, look at all the bass boats, behind the drvers seat, two or three Big batteries, a 20 or 25 gallon gas tank, a live well, or two, a two or three gallon oil tank, and they are Flying.
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Got the steering wheel from Tom Lund installed last night...Looks good! Nice tip Rich, one tap and it popped right off.
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Ok...so my seats are ready to be built at Veada. They called this morning to inform me that my upholstery choice 'Molbern Pineapple' is no longer available...my next best option is Astro SS Pasch.
I think the Astro will be ok, but its not as rich of a yellow as Molbern Pineapple:
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Well! I got lights! ;D
A very important thing for the meet...
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sOs8RI76YdU/TknIy3YCSUI/AAAAAAAAHFc/ZW3fXjVPKzQ/s800/P8140373.JPG)
and...we needed a label maker so...why not right?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ytDwBieSEFk/TknIz-j65gI/AAAAAAAAHFg/Aid5aFErtAE/s800/P8140372.JPG)
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Anyone else have an old steering wheel?
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Anyone else have an old steering wheel?
Jerry - You can have my old one...but its not in good shape.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3s-iJ24jBvE/TWBSFk9K6mI/AAAAAAAAHEk/6-SJ_tx0Ivg/s800/P2180081-1.JPG)
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Anyone else have an old steering wheel?
Maybe Doug has one he can pull for you.
I don't think he'll be using it ;)
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.
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Anyone else have an old steering wheel?
You're welcome to the one off'n the 153 Jerry. If I can get it off ...
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Spare battery and an ash tray, that's some resourcefulness.
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Function over form Ross ... Though Jim did mail me an ashtray.
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Ok, still on the upholstery hunt...anyone do business with Gary's Upholstery? They have a couple of likely candidates.
Lemon Peel, Marigold & Buttercup are the closest in real light...time for samples.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-E4qDgkYnhi0/TnLD88fhUxI/AAAAAAAAHTI/zMiWxwW7jCU/s800/DSCF0380.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-usZNSnAO5Fo/TnLD9nbLutI/AAAAAAAAHTM/PSR5W_AOKCg/s800/DSCF0381.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N739ZY2Typk/TnLD-cLKytI/AAAAAAAAHTQ/kHCT-wrrP6o/s800/DSCF0382.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cV_rXZ-y9BE/TnLD_CBfa7I/AAAAAAAAHTU/Ep0gUZX6_qA/s800/DSCF0383.JPG)
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I like buttercup.
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I like buttercup.
I think (if the printed colors are close) that Buttercup is the best match. Marigold gets a little too bright, plus the texture in the upholstery would be cool as well.
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Anyone else have an old steering wheel?
Jerry I am just reading this now.
I have 2. Not sure what you are looking for but I have the originals from my 67 Larson and my 67 Bayflite hanging in my shop as decorations.
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Spare battery and an ash tray, that's some resourcefulness.
Nice to see you're not pitchin your butts overboard. I hear Manatees dont like them. :D
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(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N739ZY2Typk/TnLD-cLKytI/AAAAAAAAHTQ/kHCT-wrrP6o/s800/DSCF0382.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cV_rXZ-y9BE/TnLD_CBfa7I/AAAAAAAAHTU/Ep0gUZX6_qA/s800/DSCF0383.JPG)
[/quote]
Ask the wife what she thinks. Most women are good at color coordination. OR ask your wife and open a can of worms. :o
And I'd have to agree with Jerry. Buttercup appears to be the best match with some contrast.
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Jerry I am just reading this now.
I have 2. Not sure what you are looking for but I have the originals from my 67 Larson and my 67 Bayflite hanging in my shop as decorations.
I have one, Thanks
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I vote "Buttercup"
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I vote "Buttercup"
ditto
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I agree 'Buttercup' is probly the closest match. I would not go with that texture however. The grainy stuff is more prone to holding dirt & harder to clean.
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Gary's Upholstery is sending me samples of their closest match based on pictures I sent them. They didn't recommend buttercup as its not a marine treated vinyl... :'(
Guess we'll see what they have!
Also - Got a present in the mail today. I was able to find new 'Take Apart' hinges that work with the bow cover. (Bad cell phone picts.)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gcuGuQrp_24/Tne0GimYIsI/AAAAAAAAHTY/56JE9TLzwD8/s800/IMAGE_044.jpg)
Left hinge piece is original, while right piece is new and a perfect fit! So I'll be able to keep the OEM hardware on the bow cover, while still having and exact fit on the boat. Its not rounded like the OEM piece, but I doubt anyone who didn't know that it wasn't original would pick up on it.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pt3opvNqjpA/Tne0HF-FP-I/AAAAAAAAHTc/2XLC_dHCi9M/s800/IMAGE_045.jpg)
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Suweet hinge! Looks like a perfect match. Just make sure ya put em in the right direction ...
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Ok...Gary's Upholstery samples arrived yesterday. There's a pretty clear winner...which of course isn't a 'marine' vinyl...any idea what that means anyway?
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bJs172fr4_s/Tn5UIgn9IxI/AAAAAAAAHTo/NYB5nE2A80Y/s800/2011-09-24_13-45-38_663.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-IhPkdjWAppU/Tn5UNIUZaCI/AAAAAAAAHTs/JgCfW3FeKRQ/s800/2011-09-24_13-46-51_804.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oKHAgPtkyd4/Tn5URFzntuI/AAAAAAAAHTw/11Fss7tsu2c/s800/2011-09-24_13-46-55_449.jpg)
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" 'marine' vinyl...any idea what that means anyway? "
Doug might have a better answer but ...
UV protection, mold and mildew protection.
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What they're saying when they say it's not 'Marine Vinyl' is you're on your own if you leave it exposed to the elements. Marine grade vinyl is generally heavier gauge, got a thicker PVC coating on it, sturdier backing, and in most cases nowadays is treated with a microbial. If it isn't marine vinyl it's automotive vinyl, which means it's s'posed to have a roof over it's head ...
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Well...I use the boat 10-15x a season, its never out in the rain, and I'm pretty anal about the upholstery...thoughts?
So far...its by far the best match.
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So checked the sample based on your info Doug...its definitely lighter duty stuff...looks like the 2nd choice is gonna be the best choice then; Lemon Peel...its on the right in the picture.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oKHAgPtkyd4/Tn5URFzntuI/AAAAAAAAHTw/11Fss7tsu2c/s800/2011-09-24_13-46-55_449.jpg)
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So checked the sample based on your info Doug...its definitely lighter duty stuff...looks like the 2nd choice is gonna be the best choice then; Lemon Peel...its on the right in the picture.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oKHAgPtkyd4/Tn5URFzntuI/AAAAAAAAHTw/11Fss7tsu2c/s800/2011-09-24_13-46-55_449.jpg)
Close enough Doran. Once ya get some sweat and sun tan lotion, etc mixed in the color'll look just fine. Trust me.
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Close enough Doran. Once ya get some sweat and sun tan lotion, etc mixed in the color'll look just fine. Trust me.
Doug - I think you're right...it'll never be directly against the Gold color, and that distance will give it enough relief and look spot on. Do you have any way to get this cheaper (and still make some money)?
Surfside Naugahyde - SF83 'Lemon Peel' - $20/yd
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Continuing to work on the interior. The back-to-back just takes up too much room.
No room left!
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jHFc_9HUik8/T25lD7_J8xI/AAAAAAAAHng/NRFqB7jurX8/s800/2012-03-24_19-21-15_90.jpg)
Much better! Just need to finish building out the bench...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-k6HOMIojC-I/T2-2U5_zyrI/AAAAAAAAHn4/Y6QcO8ijvo8/s800/2012-03-25_18-11-14_571.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-voSVmmwmTPs/T2-2bjuPaCI/AAAAAAAAHoI/uFuFhWWpI6U/s800/2012-03-25_18-11-37_256.jpg)
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Took the entire day, but made good progress today on the seating. Should be just about ready to start sealing everything up now!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rn70woH1pug/T3e5ewiOuII/AAAAAAAAHpI/BJusQLlccJw/s800/2012-03-31_20-14-08_177.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FL7c9VVK-Rc/T3e5hLA-IAI/AAAAAAAAHpQ/I3uCarTrBb8/s800/2012-03-31_20-14-18_810.jpg)
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Looks awesome! got that new control box all hooked up?
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Looks awesome! got that new control box all hooked up?
Controls are hooked up, Tilt/Trim is not. I'm confused by the wiring on the 3 Button switch (the original one) vs. the new wiring....I also haven't wired in the Neutral interrupt.
Figure I can finish up the wiring after its all sealed up.
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Looks GREAT Doran !
Did ya see the CVZ in GCOTD ?
http://owensboro.craigslist.org/boa/2931757468.html (http://owensboro.craigslist.org/boa/2931757468.html)
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Looks awesome! got that new control box all hooked up?
Controls are hooked up, Tilt/Trim is not. I'm confused by the wiring on the 3 Button switch (the original one) vs. the new wiring....I also haven't wired in the Neutral interrupt.
Figure I can finish up the wiring after its all sealed up.
You should be able to just take the harness that's connected to the new handle and plug it right into the trim pump, it should have a 3 prong connector.
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Gregg - $6500 for a damaged boat...I like the colors...and that's the color my bow cover matches, but, Jimmy's Beautiful CVZ-18 can be had for less...and its perfect!
Rich - I'm saying this about myself 'DUH'. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees. Yes...I'll plug it in...probably the best tip yet! :D
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Well, we have yellow seats again.
Not perfect mind you, but they're sealed in resin and painted. They'll likely stay that way through the summer then I'll either learn to sew and upholster them or have them done professionally with 'real' fabric.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-bG7equd1-ss/T3jtYxINoZI/AAAAAAAAHpY/724i2GkEFV0/s800/2012-04-01_19-05-03_498.jpg)
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Pulled the wood seats out. Like the height & size...but didn't "look" right to me in the boat. The el cheapo Wise seat is back in for now. Cut the pedestal base way down so the seat sits as low as possible.
I'm still not sure what I want to do for the captains chairs...kinda thinking these might make a good base for recovering in the winter:
http://greatlakesskipper.com/product/16_162-boat-seating-plastic-seat-shells/13547--white-plastic-boat-fishing-seat-shell-st142818.html (http://greatlakesskipper.com/product/16_162-boat-seating-plastic-seat-shells/13547--white-plastic-boat-fishing-seat-shell-st142818.html)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-AJIpD2lHXl8/T4DIIncuoxI/AAAAAAAAHp4/3_ZXzbE8y1w/s800/2012-04-07_16-13-32_835.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-zHR3SZ_7Dhw/T4DIX9GPwQI/AAAAAAAAHqA/QZuIL7RX-Rw/s800/2012-04-07_17-12-05_10.jpg)
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Are they about the same height as the wood ones ?
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Yeah, its about the same...just a tad higher.
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Very minor update...finally got the bow cover hinges installed. I hate drilling holes in the boat, so I've been putting it off, but since we have storms rolling through, it gave me something to do.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-fZuyTvqicWM/T4pOUT-kJYI/AAAAAAAAHqQ/Egid1RJ4WG8/s800/2012-04-14_23-26-30_460.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-7g18hVbKspY/T4pOctAHFtI/AAAAAAAAHqg/yVwRrqKUXV0/s800/2012-04-14_23-26-58_328.jpg)
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The CVZ in GCOTD has a nice design, clean look ...
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/GCOTD/5N95G25F33k63F43N3c484ccf76ab52ac1605.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/GCOTD/5Ge5H25J83I43Mb3pfc485610483f9b551e8e.jpg)
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and....he's looking to trade for a CVX-16...so...when you trading?
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Not me ... Won't fit in my garage ...
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Trying to figure out my steering system...looks like I have to replace the entire steering helm since its all one unit (Rack System?). The cable is connected to the steering and non-serviceable?
I did find one tiny bit of original upholstery hidden underneath there though...and it much darker than I anticipated...it really matches the 'butter' sample I have:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-qwmQPZbVDPU/T44f4PJwuJI/AAAAAAAAHvc/BmpbGExdPsQ/s800/2012-04-17_20-45-47_633.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-10Xj_0qynJ8/T44fd9me5lI/AAAAAAAAHvU/vKkcIfr9ms8/s800/2012-04-17_20-45-35_461.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wO2WnxAw2q4/T44fMncsp0I/AAAAAAAAHvM/vhI0jlRV4Bs/s800/2012-04-17_20-47-40_686.jpg)
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Well, the finish still isn't perfect, but continues to shine up. This is after multiple passes of wetsanding, 3M Compounding and Finesse-it.
I think I'm up to 5 passes now. Taking it very slow...as there can't be much flake left...but the 'haze' is now gone. In the end, its still going to have a sliver look to it, but its much better now:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NH0gwlh6wqI/T5ILYdhLGVI/AAAAAAAAHws/_nb4aveQhfQ/s800/2012-04-20_20-09-56_249.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gjEUlkPrkTk/T5IJfSwIEkI/AAAAAAAAHwU/B_lxKpV80ic/s800/2012-04-20_20-10-20_573.jpg)
Also reinforced the ladder (one side is sealed), need to seal the wood pictured:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Ook8i5ukizw/T5SfyQyrhYI/AAAAAAAAHw8/kfyeN3JLwfM/s800/2012-04-22_19-01-55_169.jpg)
Finished final fit of the control box. I had to cut some of the interior glass & wood out to get it to sit squarely:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QBvws5AWIMc/T5SiiYolhAI/AAAAAAAAHyM/uGF0ifbPYi4/s800/2012-04-22_19-02-48_762.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tMNPPFpkNUs/T5So6isMdrI/AAAAAAAAHyU/1-974u8rZS8/s800/2012-04-22_19-55-27_594.jpg)
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Coming along nicely.
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So...unbeknownst to me...my Mom knows how to upholster. Actually, I'd forgotten that she did some chairs at the house when we were little. She took a couple classes back in the day.
Its something I've been wanting to learn how to do...so...I found this 'Duck'? canvas at JoAnn's when I was looking for upholstery choices last week.
Matches perfectly...now...I know its not the right stuff to use. However, as a beginner, this will be easier to work with, cheaper to screw up on...and for the first attempt, will be much more forgiving. Plus, at $6/yd, is a perfect way to learn.
Over the winter, I'll set up shop in the basement and do it on the good stuff for real and use this set as patterns for the final interior. We'll see how it goes.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-kyf9rue21rU/T5b4jfLKeqI/AAAAAAAAHzQ/TBbFfdCjhyY/s800/DSCF0542.JPG)
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I admire your enthusiasm Doran. Ya I remember my Mom doing a lot of sewing when I was a kid. Never helped her of course but guess some of it musta sank in. Osmosis?
Considering hard core upholsterers appear to be a dying breed I try to gain as much knowledge from the old timers as I can. The first thing they'll tell ya is ya gotta think like the material. Ridiculous & primitive as that might sound it's the golden rule. Well that'n ya gotta think inside out'n backwards too. But we'll address that in the next lesson ...
I can do simpler cushions/bolsters but do not consider myself an upholsterer. That's Beth's job. Me I'm just a old canvas slinger?
For what it's worth I been in the business for goin' on 9 yrs now and still walk up to a job'n think to myself, "How the F am I gonna pull this one off!?"
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Thanks Doug. It something I'd like to learn...and while Mom's no expert...she can get me going and I'll figure it out as I go I guess...what else is new right?
Maybe that should be Goldie's new name 'Figured it out'...
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Majority of what I've learned about the trade has come the hard way. I'd never used a sewing machine in my life before buying the business from Steve. He did help me out a lot, and still does when he's in town. But early on I ate more than my fair share of canvas'n vinyl. (Tastes like sheeit and hard to digest...)
Next time around I'm gonna pick a trade you can get good at'n be done with it. Problem with my line of work is you're never really good. You can only 'get better'?
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think to myself, "How the F am I gonna pull this one off!?"
I'm with ya there Doug !
After paying so much for upholstry work .. I bought a machine, then I realized why it cost so much to get that kinda work done.
Me and the Fox have been doing some work, but nothing to brag about, we are still in the learning stage. I been buying from the "close out" box in front of the counter, $2 to $10 bucks, pretty cheap stuff to play with, but then I had to go buy a spool of thread WOW ! $35
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Not a ton of progress. I've decided to go with my own custom bases for the 2 captains seats. I just can't get the height where I want it, and think these will hold up for a long time.
I ended up cutting down the depth of the rear supports to give and additional 6" of leg room for the bench passengers. The plan is to have Mom down in 2 weeks, sew up the seats, engine cover pads and gunnels and call it good for the season.
I'm to the point of needing to button things up so I can start the boat up, and get ready for the June meet!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-r6XiLu9Pzg4/T6RE-9bZjrI/AAAAAAAAH2s/bdbIOjbDy_g/s800/2012-05-04_16-04-08_832.jpg)
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It's amazing the difference 6" can make. Good call!
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Hey Dor, I don't understand the intricate cut-out you made for the control box. Usually just a round hole via a hole saw is sufficient.
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Hey Dor, I don't understand the intricate cut-out you made for the control box. Usually just a round hole via a hole saw is sufficient.
That's the pattern that's cut out in the cover plate...so I just traced that and cut it out...assumed that's how it had to be! It only took like 2 hours... :D I mean...why make it easy on myself, right?
(I thought it was supposed to be a hole too, but I couldn't work out what keeps the control box from just spinning with the handle if I didn't leave those 3 bolt holes...so I traced it and got out the big dremmel.)
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You may be correct, I'll have to take a look at how mine is attached. I might be thinking about how later controls are mounted where the outer plate is attached only to the box and has separate screws holding the whole assembly to the panel.
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I just mounted the control box on this Celebrity I been working on, had the big round hole in the panel, the cover plate mounted to the panel, then the control box is mounted to the cover with the three little bolts, the big hole gave it room to pull the t/t control wires thru, and allows them a little room to move, although the wires are wrapped aroung the handle shaft, you don't want those wires pulled tight.
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I just mounted the control box on this Celebrity I been working on, had the big round hole in the panel, the cover plate mounted to the panel, then the control box is mounted to the cover with the three little bolts, the big hole gave it room to pull the t/t control wires thru, and allows them a little room to move, although the wires are wrapped aroung the handle shaft, you don't want those wires pulled tight.
Yeah, on my '96 Glastron, the cover plate mounted with separate bolts to the panel...on this one, the 3 bolts hold it all together.
With the cut out as it is, the wires aren't tight or pinched, so I kind of thought I had it right. Just assumed that it was an early design and improvements were made for the way the '96 I had was mounted.
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You done good Dor, I kinda remember that's how mine was mounted too. I was thinking of the later controls like Red described. Funny how that cut-out of yours looks like a crop circle. Makes ya think. ;)
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Here's a picture of the control plate:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/42574883-009b-be74.jpg)
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And the seats are ready... well, partially. I won't get to building the cup holders and storage bin for the bench occupants until fall.
The cushions are just kinda what I'm shooting for, obviously the backrest is too tall.
They'll be like this for the summer (only covered)...and the right height.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/42574883-01d6-0a83.jpg)
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Why dont you build some swivel buckets like me and Tim made they are really easy I would think that it would give you more room as well.
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Why dont you build some swivel buckets like me and Tim made they are really easy I would think that it would give you more room as well.
I haven't had great experiences with swivel buckets in the past. In previous boats they've all had issues of tearing themselves out of the floor over time. The Lever action of bumps rocking you back and forth eventually win in my experience.
Also...I like to sit on top of the back rest of the seats and chat which these will allow me to do. I think its just a preference thing.
I do have the additional floor support in should I ever change my mind, and last year, did run with a cheap bucket. The base is even staying in the floor, but I know I'll be happier with these.
Plus, its additional storage space. Eventually, there will be LED lighting in the seat bases for the walkway to the bow hidden in them, cupholders, ipod hookups for the kids and dual sundecks for the girls.
There's a bigger plan at work here...but the emphasis is on Eventually.
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Doran - I know with your kids you'll be doing a lot of water sports behind your CVZ. For me, the swiveling passenger bucket seat is a "must have" when doing water sports behind my CVX18. My CVX16 had fixed bucket seats and that's one of the things I really hated about that boat when pulling skiers, wakeboarders, ect. So I'd think about having at least the passenger seat swivel for that reason.
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Well, I don't disagree with you in the least. Couple things, my wife never watches from the captains chairs, she always sits in the bow sideways and looks back or on the bench and looks back. (Get's seasick/motion sickness if she doesn't.)
The other alternative is (and I'm contemplating this) is a moveable back rest like Sea Ray has...it can be flipped forward or backwards to sit either way.
We'll see what happens...I have to make a decision soon.
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Speaking of watersports if you come across a decent "High 5" prop at a good price snap it up. They work really well on these boats. I run a 19P on mine. Or just send me a PM and you can grab mine on your way through town when you take your vacation in northern MN this summer.
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Thanks Kip!
I'd never borrow another man's Prop ... too afraid of breaking it and ruining both our good times. I'll likely try some Pinanha 4-Blade props with different pitch's at the cabin this summer.
Honestly, with the tank in the floor (vs. the bow) and passengers in the rear this boat is real stern heavy so yeah, I need to find something to get the stern pushed up on plane. Even thought about some smart tabs...but we'll see.
Now...you & Jeff are messing with me about the buckets as well. I'm likely to finish this year with the bases I've built and rethink after assessing a season with them.
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I still have those smart tabs that were on my Intimidator if you are interested. I won't use them.
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Doran
The buckets that swivel are the only way to go not only just for water sports but also for relaxing on the lake as you can turn yourself around and talk to the people in the back. But give your bases a try and in June you can take the 18 out and see what you think about the buckets.
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Speaking of watersports if you come across a decent "High 5" prop at a good price snap it up. They work really well on these boats. I run a 19P on mine. Or just send me a PM and you can grab mine on your way through town when you take your vacation in northern MN this summer.
This was in Gregg's POTD: 23P though. My brother uses one of these on his 18' SlickCraft. 305 4V. Heavy boat though but that's what I though these were for.....
Quicksilver S.S prop 5 Blade-new - $250 (Hudson, WI
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/boa/3001849660.html (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/boa/3001849660.html)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/POTD/5I85He5Ja3M33L33N6c57398268360ae413e7.jpg)
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looks like about a 2 foot prop.
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Started Goldie up for the season. Had a little adjusting to do on the throttle cable for the new control box, but, everything works great, and motor sounds ready to go!
Its nice to have a Neutral safety switch again.
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Spee-Dee left a couple of presents on my porch today! Time to get sewing!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-SVcgRMCRJZU/T7Z9a7RrXtI/AAAAAAAAH6c/HXzq_yzBVzM/s800/2012-05-18_11-26-20_389.jpg)
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Ok, its not stapled down yet...but the first cushion has been sewn. (Never touched a sewing machine until last Thrusday when I purchased mine for $20 on CL.)
Mom supervising, me showing her how the welting foot works:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-djyOSpzL5bM/T7muq1XItTI/AAAAAAAAH7A/yTuwqX73bmI/s800/DSCF0550.JPG)
Some ironing to do, but they fit nice & snug!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-hXUkNcBhXPA/T7mut_40J0I/AAAAAAAAH7o/0YkqwUT970k/s800/DSCF0555.JPG)
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Looks good Doran
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Looks great Doran! Color match is perfect.
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a $20 machine that will poke through 3 or 4 layers of fabric was a Steal Doran ... I paid $1000 for this one
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Nice! . You got real piping in there, too?
I don't think I'll have my new seat covers sewn up before Rathbun ... not with all the other work.
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Dan - Yeah, there's real cording in there. The 'Welting Foot' is awesome, puts all 4 layers together at once. Mom's helping with the hand stitching and helping me cut, measure & plan...(you know... the *little stuff*...)
Red - Since its Duck cloth, I don't need a super heavy commercial grade long arm one like you've got. I just need it to last 3 more days. Its a 50 year old machine and it sews better than my wife's $200 one we purchased 10 years ago.
Kip - Its a perfect match...haven't found an upholstery color that matches better.
The goal is to just to learn the techniques on the cheap duck cloth, use it 1-2 seasons, then sew up the final stuff.
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The goal is to just to learn the techniques on the cheap duck cloth, use it 1-2 seasons, then sew up the final stuff
Atta boy Doran! Practice makes perfect. Yeah a welt foot is a must have for cushions. Probly a wise choice to start off with less expensive material. I ate a lotta Sunbrella in my early days, and lemme tell ya it don't taste so good ...
Yup for $20 bucks that machine was a steal, with a welt foot? Is that a reverse lever I see?! Suweet!
Hear ya Red I'd be lookin at $13 or 1400 to replace one of my Consews.
Carry on!
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Well, the machine I picked up is just a '63 White brand machine made for home use. But...its built 'old school' home use, all metal 2x the motor my wife's modern plastic one has, and seems to get through 4 layers of duck cloth just fine.
Had to pick up the welt foot separately...$16.00 for that.
Here's today's progress update:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-rOBOlSdKDQA/T7rzYh74F_I/AAAAAAAAH78/hh9LSQZbNrQ/s800/2012-05-21_20-58-00_149.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hRmBafzhNMs/T7rzm5dec_I/AAAAAAAAH8E/q1L4b0sHay4/s800/2012-05-21_20-57-18_409.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JARe7r5Odic/T7rz1Ijyx3I/AAAAAAAAH8M/fIbSXe-1VK4/s800/2012-05-21_20-57-28_649.jpg)
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Awesome work! I like the sun pads.
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Looking good Doran!
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Looks great! Keep up the good work, I have several others you can practice on if you want! ;D
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Looks great! Keep up the good work, I have several others you can practice on if you want! ;D
Exactly what I was thinking, Chris! Nice work D, I think you've got the hang of it there. :P
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Progress on the bow today...I have to clean up the walkthrough 'sides'...not happy with the 'puckering' after I mounted them.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pu4-NkDNrtU/T7w9ILGMIPI/AAAAAAAAH8s/JvNKX9nEfuQ/s800/2012-05-22_19-58-09_642.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AH5FifIXXhs/T7w9b__gcqI/AAAAAAAAH80/ON8qLSkQTQY/s800/2012-05-22_19-58-30_955.jpg)
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Those dirty rotten mother puckers! Man I HATE them!! Keep the faith and continue your jedi training Doran. Soon you'll be able to keep those puckers at bay
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What foam did you go with, Doran? Did you use a 2 & 1, or just a single piece?
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Its very frustrating actually...this is where the 'Art' that you know how to do...is so awesome. Much respect to you Doug.
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What foam did you go with, Doran? Did you use a 2 & 1, or just a single piece?
For the captain's buckets, bench seat & bow seats...its 2" Med + 1" Med + Batting.
For the Bow backrests, I'm limited by the bow cover (it fits down over the bow backrests), to 2" Max, so, no batting.
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From my experience & for what it's worth you might get good but ya never really get great at it. You can only hope to get better? I was fortunate enough to have a couple good teachers in the beginning. Wouldn't've made it without them.
Yes I spose it's an art. 'Craft' is more like it but yeah you can get a lil artistic. What one has to be able to grasp, besides learning to think like a piece of material, is to think inside out'n backwards. 'Specially when it comes to sewing cushions. Considering I have enough trouble thinking right side out'n forward it's a miracle I've made it this far ...
Keep at it Doran. Only way to get better.
However the Creative Canvas Research, Development & Training Institute is now offering a special deal ...
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Done right, it's an art. That's why I have an Artist for an Upholsterer. I think those cushions look great for a first time. I wish I could do it, but it's the only thing I farm out. My Artist (upholsterer) called today. He's going to do my seats this week (the ones he picked up on August). One can only hope.
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Yep ! it's an ART ...
Watched my buddy do seats and other stuff over the years.
He did some show cars and hot rods so every thing had to be perfect ...
NIGHTMARE ...
Seen him redo a seat three times because one seam on cushion wouldn't line up with back cushion.
Vinyl streaches and pulls as you go and as Doug said every thing is inside out ...
Pretty good first try Doran ...
You did a better job then the Pro that did my interior !
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I learned a long time ago, the only thing that identifies someone as a "pro" is either a uniform, or a shop with a name over the door ... and half the time, neither of those make someone professional.
I did the same work at my house, in my garage, and in my car that I did in the shop under a national chain's business name ... most of the time, the work done at my house was brought because the customer wanted better than what was available through the chain.
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(I'm just going for cheap this time around!)
;D
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These are my babys: Consew 226 RB & the one covered in the background is a 206. I use the 226 primarily while Beth uses the 206. Believe the 226 is a '98 & the 206 a '92. The main difference between them is the 206 is a top loader which limits you to a smaller bobbin. Where the 226 is a bottom loader allowing you to swing a larger diameter bobbin. Bigger Bobbin Better btw ...
In a testament to their quality: Both of these machines are used near daily & I haven't had a major problem with either for goin' on 9yrs? Hope I didn't just jinx myself ...
Call me sometime Doran & I'll try to offer some tips.
edit. Check out http://get-up-and-go.com/upholstery-forum/index.php (http://get-up-and-go.com/upholstery-forum/index.php) Lotsa good info there.
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Doug - You've got the good stuff. I'm beginning to think (well, I know) that I need better equipment to do much better. I've been making due with the wrong size welting foot (using 1/2", need 1/4"), etc.
Thanks for the offer! I'll definitely take you up on it sometime this fall.
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Not a ton of progress...had to go into work to fix a system problem...
I'm a little concerned that its starting to get that McD's effect...any suggestions guys? I'm thinking the 'real' upholstery will need some copper stripes to break up the yellow?
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AfQ5tSvNinA/T72NV0wKorI/AAAAAAAAH9I/-EjychQWJyY/s800/2012-05-23_20-19-43_661.jpg)
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Adding pleats to it would make a big differance. Just use a different color thread. They used white on my orange vinyl. I also added the white stripe to break it up a little
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Sime material comes pre-pleated. You can use it for inserts or alone.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/DSC01259Medium.jpg)
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Well...its by no means perfect, but...all things considered...it'll work!
(the grey primer will still be there for the IA meet...I'm burned out!)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--dAFS9XlHOE/T774JYNU9rI/AAAAAAAAH90/M30ma3etxLc/s800/2012-05-24_22-07-59_776.jpg)
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Sweet, Doran!
What color were you going to paint over the primer?
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Sweet, Doran!
What color were you going to paint over the primer?
Not Yellow! That much is for sure...probably the copper color.
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Doran, you have worked your tail off getting it to this point, I don't blame you one bit. Its just gets to the point to where you just want to go and enjoy the fruits of your labor.
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I remember what it looked like at Red Wing. What a difference! Rome wasn't built in a day (Although it may have burned in a day) Looks great, don't worry, be happy (That should be a song)
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Not Yellow! That much is for sure...
Heh heh heh, glad you said that. Ah don't sweat it Doran. Some spilled beverages, condiments, excess sunscreen, and a few greasy handprints'n that interior'll look origional ...
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Finally...fun stuff! I've got 6 strips to run around the boat for lighting.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vN2KLa-Yh5Q/T8Bk3FtSxmI/AAAAAAAAH-c/BT52TbDAZh4/s800/2012-05-25_22-34-35_240.jpg)
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Those are cool. I looked at some like that - surprising how bright they are.
I'd love to get a pair of red & green strips and use them in place of the bow light. Thought about putting them right up under the windshield.
Surely they meet CG visibility requirements.
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Final pieces of the bench are installed...can't wait to spend a week on the lake!!!
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HeiwleDIKjQ/T-aotfZwk6I/AAAAAAAAIMs/fyzeP0QG3oQ/s800/2012-06-23_14-44-09_480.jpg)
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Looks GREAT Doran !
Now you know why they get so much money for doing interiors ... It aint easy !