Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jason on November 23, 2011, 09:20:53 AM
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Decided to repower the V172.
Originally it had a 67 Merc I6 95HP.
Found a 1980 Viking Deckboat with a 1980 150hp V6 Merc. Good compression, good spark, runs good.
Dragged it home last week. Pulled the motor off Sunday. Stripping the boat down now. Gonna dump it if no one takes it by saturday. Gonna sell the trailer hoefully sooner then later.
Built this engine stand monday night. Grand total in cost of $22!
I will keep you posted as I pull the old motor to make the swap.
One question: When filling and drilling the holes for the new motor, what do you recommend I use to fill the old holes and seal the new ones?
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0201.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0203.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0205.jpg)
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Congrats on the "new" 150 Jason, that ought to make your V172 FLY!
what do you recommend I use to fill the old holes and seal the new ones?
I'd get the appropriate size hardwood dowel rod and cut to length, Soak the holes and the dowel rod in epoxy or resin, and drive them home. Finish with "Peanut butter" and/or Gelcoat, whatever your fancy dictates. Just my thoughts, someone else may have better ideas.....?
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I second the hole-filling recommendation.
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Wow Jason, you move fast. I bought my Mercury last December and it is still sitting on the stand.
Menards has hardwood dowels in different diameters.
I am using transom supports or plates to distribute the stresses of the bolts over a wider area. The supports are make by T H Marine for both the upper and lower bolts. Here is a link for the whole kit, but my upper and lower were about $25 to $30 each. The supports will also cover the old holes.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRANSOM-SUPPORT-PLATE-KIT-HARDWARE-SEALER-TSP1DP-TSP2DP-/130588032633?hash=item1e67a73e79&item=130588032633&pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr
Maybe if your outboard motor stand is still around next spring, I could borrow it to place the old motor until the new motor is transferred onto the boat from my outboard motor stand.
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" I'd get the appropriate size hardwood dowel rod and cut to length, Soak the holes and the dowel rod in epoxy or resin, and drive them home. Finish with "Peanut butter" and/or Gelcoat, whatever your fancy dictates. Just my thoughts, someone else may have better ideas.....? "
That's how my V-156 was done, with the plates Dave talked about to cover old thumb screw scares on transom.
If ya need any help ... just post !
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David wrote;
Maybe if your outboard motor stand is still around next spring, I could borrow it to place the old motor until the new motor is transferred onto the boat from my outboard motor stand.
I happen to have an extra stand now, the Merc sold and I shipped it to Oregon yesterday. You're welcome to it David, no charge. (Shipping may be more than it would cost to build one, I don't know but could find out.) Since it's screwed together, I could break it down for easier shipping. Nothing fancy mind you, but you could easily add wheels or whatever. Just a thought......let me know.
Here's the plans I think Gregg came up with a while back (?)
(http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae264/MarkSmith_2010/OutboardStanddwg1.jpg)
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Mark, your outboard motor stand looks very well constructed. I would not need the extra stand until next spring and then just for the time it takes for the motor switch. I even thought of using a heavy duty sawhorse to clamp the outboard onto (the 1974 Merc has clamps at the top) while the skeg rests on the floor, maybe boxed in at the sides to prevent it from tipping over. In any case, spring is months away and I will let you know if yours is needed.
I sent Joe Poole an e-mail asking him if he knew of an adopter whereby the harness on a 1971 Mercury Quicksilver tachometer can be modifyed to fit the plug in to a 1988 control box, as the configeration has changed. Also called Allen at Supreme Motors. He did not know for sure, but would take a look at it. It would be nice to keep the square faced instruments rather than going to the International II series of the 1980's.
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THAT should push it along good. I saw that you mentioned a 150 in some other thread and saw that one on CL and thought uh huh!
David I have 2 stands but they both have motors on them right now. If I can free one up, I may have one available for the swap.
The one that Mark posted a pic of is the one I made. Does the trick and I had spare treated lumber from my deck so I didnt have to buy any. Just the casters. The other one doesnt roll around but I have clmaped to a furniture dolly right now.
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Dave, I hope to have that motor hanging on the 172 within a week or so. But then my old motor needs a stand and I am not sure what the future holds for that motor. I want to sell it but may hang on to it. The stand I have took about a hour to build. you could easily just build one too dave, but if this one is free in the spring you are more than welcome to it.
Also, the Viking deckturd had a huge aluminum plate on it. I was going to try and make some stiffener brackets out of that. Not sure if it will be as pretty but should work!
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Jason, if you need an aluminum plate, our metal fab shop has aluminum plate material in various thicknesses and can cut it to any size with the shears, or we can cut your plate.
Don't worry about an outboard motor stand. I can have someone at work throw one together out of tube steel and put casters on it if need be.
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David, you really only need one for the swap, right because you have that killer steel/diamond plate one and dont want or need to have another taking up space. Your "old" motor willl go on there once the "new" one is hanging on the boat. We should be able to work something out among us so you dont have an unused one in the way. Maybe you could suspend it from the ceiling temporarily and lightly rest the skeg on some carboard, carpet scraps of something?
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You are right Ross that I only need and want one outboard motor stand. I am slow at things so the old motor will be off for a few days/weeks? before the new one is ready to go on the reconstructed transom - old holes filled, new holes drilled, transom supports in place. I probably could set the motor down on the floor of the garage resting on the skeg and the clamps of the motor tightened onto a piece of wood 2" x 10" x 36" long. Then the motor locked so it can not swivel/turn.
I'm really excited about putting the new motor on and want to get an early start next year doing it and doing it right.
We have alot of new set ups coming this spring - Brian, Gregg, David, Jerry, and others.
Maybe a prop testing day for Steve, Jim, Jerry, Gregg, and David
David
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Maybe a prop testing day for Steve, Jim, Jerry, Gregg, and David
And Jason..
Will the I6 props work on the V6 motors?
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Ready for the dump.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0210.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0211.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0212.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0213.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0214.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0215.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0216.jpg)
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Sorry about the omission Jason. Guess I am getting old. Your V-6 has a larger hub than the in-line Mercurys. Did you get a prop with the motor? I'm thinking that a 19" or 21" would work. Believe your red line is 5,500 RPM. Props that come to mind are the standard Mercury aluminum prop, a stainless steel Mercury Laser II in the odd pitchs (19", 21"), Ballistic, and the older style Mercury stainless steel QSS that Jim Barrett has. Propably start out with the prop that came with the motor to see where your RPM's are and go from there.
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You are right Ross that I only need and want one outboard motor stand.
David
Wish I could say that.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/DSC01019Medium.jpg)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/DSC01021Medium.jpg)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/DSC01020Medium.jpg)
That doesn't count the ones that are in pieces, and the 3800 OMC that's on the floor.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/0726_006.jpg)
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Bob's machine shop has the backing plates for $25 a set. (2) I put them on the CVX back in January before the big washers from the factory cracked the glass. Had an indention of about 1/8 inch.
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Bob's machine shop has the backing plates for $25 a set.
http://www.bobsmachine.com/Products/transom_backing_plates.cfm
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maybe the V6 is the same as the stern drive's then. I'll see if one of those fit. The 150 came with a banged up 17p prop.
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Jason
I have a brand new Merc / Quicksilver 20 P alm. prop with a Torq flo hub.
I'm not going to list it on CL until next summer, so if you would like to try it in the spring and it works ...
Will also have a 20P Laser II for sale in spring you can try ...
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The small hub props for the in-line Mercury sixs are 4 1/4" in diameter and the sterndrive large hubs are 4 3/4" in diameter. Your stern drive prop should work on the V-6 150 HP Mercury. Since the 17" pitch was for pontoon use, you may need a higher pitch than this. Dans Discount Boat Propellers sells Mercury aluminum props for about $100. There is a new 21" Mercury stainless steel on Craigslist for $150.
http://www.dansdiscountprops.com/BuyNow/Quicksilver.cfm
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/boa/2715954911.html
Otherwise if you wait until spring, Supreme motors may let you test some out or I may know someone who has a collection of Mercury props for a V-6.
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RIP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2ULzohkTkU
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Derby Boat!!
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Watch Jason's youtube for the destruction of a Viking pontoon
Watch Sunday TV for the self destruction of the Viking's football platoon
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seen em both. don't look much different.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/PackerH_1-2.jpg)
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Yo Jason. Why not scrap out the rubrail, railing, swim platform tubing, etc before ya drag it off to the dump. You might have $100 bucks or so there? Just a thought.
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Now you tell me.
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Guess Doug didn't watch the video.
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Hey Jason what did that cost to unload that boat and that was a pretty good video
Tom
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$93 per ton.
This was a heavy 19' Deck boat. That little yellow turd you got in the front yard would not be over 800lbs so about $40. Just pull all the metal out of it and bring that to the scrap yard for $$$!
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$93 per ton.
This was a heavy 19' Deck boat. That little yellow turd you got in the front yard would not be over 800lbs so about $40. Just pull all the metal out of it and bring that to the scrap yard for $$$!
my boat "water ready" weighs in at about 3380 with a spare prop, small tool box and half a tank of fuel. 30 gal tank.
brochure says 'approximate weight is 1750.
http://www.classicglastron.com/1986_Glastron_SSV191.html
Terry
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Sounds about right. Mine weighed in at 2000lbs w/o trailer, engine, gas tank, ect. Glastrons are built lighter than the average boat.
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Little update and a question.
Old motor is off an now on the stand.
Old transom holes filled and gel-coated.
New motor mounted.
Steering linkage modified.
Cables attached
Power trim all hooked up. I actually had to swap trim pumps too.
Wiring is just about done with exception to the tach. I would like to keep my original 1967 tach in the boat. The picture shows how it was originally hooked up. The wires were all crusty. Same with the old ignition switch. I had to replace that too. Anyway, The wiring harness for the new engine has a grey wire coming out of it which connects to the rectifier on the engine. I thought the old motor was the same way. Looks like the old engine was wired so that it has a 12V supply to the tach when the key was turned on. I am not sure on the other old wire. Think I can just hook up the grey wire in the new wiring harness to where the crusty white wire was attached?
I'll get more pictures of the install soon. Still have to get the new impeller installed then it's off to the river!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0223.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0228.jpg)
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I do not know much about electronics. I wanted to use my old 70's tachometer on the 88' motor, but the old tach connects to the battary, and the new one uses the charging system. My old tach is the 1970's square faced tach which for one year was made for the 88 Merc ADI system, but are rare now ($200) if you can find one. I've decided to go with the instruments with the 88' Merc.
Jason, here are some suggestions:
1. Type in your tach part number into Google and see if you come up with any wiring diagrams
2. Call Joe Poole at Ferguson-Poole for answers
3. Call the parts dept. at Supreme motors. Allen, the owner, knows electronics.
Mercury uses color coded wires:
http://www.mercuryracing.com/techcorners/outboardfaqs.php
Black All Ground
Brown Reference Electrode MerCathode System
Orange Anode Electrode MerCathode System
Lt. Blue/White Stripe Trim UP Switch
Lt. Green/White Stripe Trim DOWN Switch
Brown/White Stripe Trim Sender to Trim Gauge
Purple/White Stripe Trim "Trailer" Switch
Gray Tachometer Signal
Black/Yellow Stripe Shorting or Stop Circuit
Pink Fuel Sender to Gauge
Red Unprotected Wire from Battery
Red/Purple Stripe Protected (Fused) Wire from Battery
Red/Purple Stripe Protected (12 Volt +) to Trim Panel Control
Purple Ignition (Switch) to 12 Volt Positive
Tan Temperature Switch to Warning Horn
Tan Temperature Sender to Temperature Gauge
Tan/Blue Stripe Temperature Switch to Warning Horn
Yellow Starter Solenoid to Starter Motor
Yellow Starter to Regulator (Charging Circuit)
Yellow/Red Stripe Start Switch to Start Solenoid to Neutral Start Switch
Yellow/Black Stripe Choke (Enrichener System)
Green with Color Stripe Switch Box to Coil - Striped and Numbered
White/Black Stripe Bias Circuit (Switch Boxes)
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I got a manual which shows wiring diagrams for these things. They were hooked up a bunch of different ways and each tach varied a little bit depending on the motor. Not very descriptive though. "connect brown wire here" "connect black wire here" just does not say what those wires ARE or where they come from! Looks like it was kind of wired like yours Dave where it uses the battery to determine RPM's. You have 12V to the one terminal. Not sure where the white wire went but it has a resistor to ground.
I have another tach. Maybe I'll just put that one in for now as that one for sure uses the signal wire from the rectifier. Adventually I'll figure out how to make this old one work. Was Just curious if anyone knew of a way to make it work.......
I don't want to fry out any control boxes or anything expensive on this motor!
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Steve Ackermann might know, part of his job is rigging boats.
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If the old engine had 12v power to the lower left terminal and the tach signal to the center terminal under the light bulb then I see no reason why you can't keep it connected this way with the newer engine. You can take a 12v feed from the key switch or other gauges so the tach powers up when the key is turned on, just connect the gray wire from the harness to the center terminal for the tach. The casing is supposed to be ground so therefore there should be a ground wire connected to the case terminal or mounting lug of the holding bracket. The light is powered either with an accessory light switch or from the key switch.
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Jason, perhaps you could tell us how you capped the transom holes with gelcoat, along with pictures.
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Rich, notice the resistor from the signal wire to ground? Think that will mess things up with the new motor?
Dave, thanks for the list of Mercury's color coding!
Yep, pictures to come.
Basically drilled holes to 1/2 diamter (bolts were 3/8) so i had nice clean wood to adhere to in the hole. cut 1/2 wood dowels to length. coated with marine epoxy and pounded them in. Then covered with a few layers of gelcoat. I had 6 bolts to do from the old engine plus 2 more from the old trim pump. then I took 2 more out near the top from the old ski bar that mounted there. I also put in a alum plate on the inside of the transom between the two new engine bolts. I also put a temporary plate that spans the upper two bolts. At some point I'll get a nicely machined plate here. I still have more work to do on the "visible" patched areas but am just trying to get it water ready at the moment for a test run. Engine needs quite a bit of Dave's polishing too!
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I'm guessing the resistor is only there for protection against spikes/over voltage but don't think it will be a concern. Try it with the component in place, if it works and you get a proper reading and correct charge voltage at the battery then leave it alone. If it doesn't work disconnect the resistor and try it again.
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The tach pick up come off of the voltage regulator/ rectifier that most of the time goes to the control box and then exits from the control box to the tach in the dash. Did that deck boat have merc controll box, never mind give me a call when you get a spare moment.
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Jason, a question for you. What hardware (bolts, nuts, washers, etc.) did you use for your motor? Mercury Marine has preferences and is very specific as to type of threads, material, etc. A good source for hardware is MacMaster Carr. They have a thick products catalog and are one of our company's fastener suppliers.
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I don't know if you saw it or not David, but there's a good discussion going on in the Mercury Outpost now about after-market gaskets, hardware, sealants, etc...
http://www.fiberglassics.com/glassic-forums/17-mercury-outpost/52212-after-market-gasket-sets.html#52314
Might find some useful info there as well? ;)
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The deck boat control box was similair to the V172. It had a seperate ignition switch. The control box only controlled the cables. Ignition switch is in the "dash".
David, I used the bolts that came out of the deck boat. SS bolts. I think 5/8 diameter. Fine thread with nylon lock nuts.
The old motor on the V172 used carrige bolts. They were steel bolts and VERY rusty. Actually, one of the heads rusted right off! I think if you use SS, fine threads, and lock nuts you would be just fine.
Back to the tach. I looked at my OLD wiring more. The crusty wire going to the upper terminal was a ground. The bottom one I am not sure. I should have paid more attention when pulling this apart. :'( Seems like it would of had to have been a 12V source as otherwise there would have been no power coming to the tach. So would that mean that this tach was running off the battery alone and not a "tach signal"?
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Back to the tach. I looked at my OLD wiring more. The crusty wire going to the upper terminal was a ground. The bottom one I am not sure. I should have paid more attention when pulling this apart. Seems like it would of had to have been a 12V source as otherwise there would have been no power coming to the tach. So would that mean that this tach was running off the battery alone and not a "tach signal"?
Check the rear face of the tach for markings as to what each terminal is for. I'm pretty sure the upper center terminal is for tach signal and the lower left is for +12v. All modern tachs require 3 connections for +12v, ground, and tach signal. My 1967 and other early Mercruiser I/O tachs were the exception to that rule and only had 2 connections for tach signal and ground.
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Was able to pull the old boat out of the garage today and get a couple pics. Fired it up for the first time too on this boat. Ran pretty good for being so cold out. Still got more Gel-coat work to do. First couple pics are from when i pulled the old motor. you can also see my "temporary" stiffener plate.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1120904.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1120909.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1130080.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1130082.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1130081.jpg)
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Suweet! Ya that oughta pep her up a bit ...? 2 strokes love cold weather, cold water in particular. Lookin good Jason!
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Lookin good Jason. With so many connections, it takes alot of time to make everything mesh correctly. Do you intend to run it in open water on the St. Croix yet this year?
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I think the St. Croix is still partially open and Beanies is open while the water is open. Thinking about taking it out tomorrow. Sure hope i don't get stranded!
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Man, that's a LOT of motor back there Jason, looks great! Should increase the "grin factor" big time as well. Be careful out there if you do go out, it may take a little "getting used to" with that big momma on there. :o
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That's gonna be quite a bit of power hanging on there, I'm jealous! ;D
But I need to ask - is the connecting bracket from steering cable to engine tiller OEM equipment? To me it doesn't look like it will be strong enough. I would be really careful with that.
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Jason, I would suggest going boating on the St. Croix with another boat or telling Beanies you are going out and getting their telephone number just in case. Remember, this is the first real tryout with the new 150 HP Merc. Now I sound like a father. Good luck and give us the results of the outing.
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That transom's big enough for 2 of those.
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That's gonna be quite a bit of power hanging on there, I'm jealous! ;D
But I need to ask - is the connecting bracket from steering cable to engine tiller OEM equipment? To me it doesn't look like it will be strong enough. I would be really careful with that.
It's pretty stiff. The rod coming off the motor is not very strong either. It's not a perfect set up. On the deck boat the steering came through the rusty looking hole closer to the transom. I pulled the steering cable from the deck boat and I think I may be able to use that with my existing wheel but would need to drill a new hole through the hull to direct the cable better. We'll see how this works out first.
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Well, I tried. Beanies is closed but the ramp is open so long as this ice does not keep you out. It was about an inch thick and went out a good 10 feet. I'll just have to wait till spring.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1130084.jpg)
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Waah ... :( I was anxious to see how that baby performs.
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Good try Jason.
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There's something very wrong with having a boat on the back, and a snow plow on the front.
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Aw c'mon man. Ya coulda busted through that ice! Heh heh heh
Ah well mebbe it's for the best. Give you time to double check everything.
Not to beat a dead horse but that steering bracket looks a lil iffy. And from what I understand, if that thing were to break it would be very difficult to control the boat ...?
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Touching on that steering bracket - lemme tell you a story that happened to me once while working at the boat shop. One of the other mechanics and I had to retrieve a customer's boat, a Larson 20 runabout with a Merc 175, in his seasonal slip and drive it a few miles to the launch ramp to be pulled out for storage. His helm had stripped out because the steering cable was frozen in the guide tube on the engine so there was no way to steer the boat. So, we disconnected the link at the tiller on the engine. While I sat at the driver's console I worked the throttle control, my cohort steered the engine using a deck brush pole we found in the boat. We wedged the pole between the engine's clam-shell covers between the flywheel and the top of the covers and lashed them shut around the pole with some rope. In open water I tried to open up the throttle a little and he was holding onto the makeshift tiller with all his might trying to keep the boat on course. I don't think we were able to go than 10 mph without the torque making it uncontrollable, but we eventually made it back to the launch ramp.
If that little attachment bracket on your engine fails while you're at high speed that engine is going to whip to one side from the torque and spin the boat around dangerously creating something very very bad - like all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyaLZHiJJnE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyaLZHiJJnE)
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I do have an extra double helm system if you want it Jayson. 15' cables and bracket for that motor. $200.
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It might look wimpy in the pictures but it's really not. .125 thick galvanized angle steel. I was looking at switching my existing steering cable over to the viking boats style today but I would need to switch out the steering wheel which I really do not want to do.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1130088.jpg)
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If you think it will hold then OK, just relaying my concern. I see your old cable has the old-style ball link at the engine, they're no longer available or recommended with higher horsepower engines. You can replace the cable with a newer style without having to replace the helm or steering wheel. I had the same original helm and cable in my Crestflite and it was very sloppy, there was no way I was going to try connecting it to my updated transom assembly. I switched out the cable with a newer one, kept the original helm and it seems fine, the play is minimal. I did however replace the wheel with something a little more "sporty". ;D
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You can replace the cable with a newer style without having to replace the helm or steering wheel.
Really! I am going to have to look into that. I am guessing those cables are not cheap. If I can switch to the newer style I would be much happier but I do like my old steering wheel!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1070589.jpg)
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Here's a link for the cable kit with connection adapter to attach newer quick-connect steering cable to older threaded rotary helm:
http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=11820&familyName=Teleflex+QC+II+Steering+Cables (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=11820&familyName=Teleflex+QC+II+Steering+Cables)
Oh, just checked - I guess they still do make a ball link connector. It screws onto the end of the cable with a 5/16ths thread. But I still wouldn't use one, too much to chance.
(http://images.jamestowndistributors.com/woeimages/engine/large/11820.jpg)
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Cool, thanks Rich.
Found this. Shows all the Teleflex Mechanical steering types.
The V172 has the Big-T style.
The Viking had the Morse Command 250
http://teleflex.ru/upload/files/catalog/msru/Steering%20Identification%20Guide.pdf
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That's correct, you and I have the older Big T system and the cables at the link I provided above are a direct replacement for those helms except they come with a small adapter to attach to the helm. They don't make the cables with a screw-on nut at each end anymore, you have to use the quick-connect adapter on the helm.
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This is the dual helm set up. It takes all the slop out of the steering to eliminate chine walk. I wouldn't use the ball link, and steering wheels fit anything. (normally)
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/DSC01000Medium.jpg)
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Jerry, How do you to hook up the two cables to the motor?
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One goes through the tilt tube, the other goes in a bracket that bolts to the front of your motor. If you look you will see 4 bolt holes that the bracket on the top of the picture bolts to. you tighten them against each other until all the slop is out of the steering. You may need solid mounts to, but try this first. At the speed you will go you will have chine-walk without it.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/DSC01022Medium.jpg)
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Jason
Was told by Al from Tanner's that the old quick connect are BAD !
They can't reuse them and said I shouldn't either ...
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/ccs.jpg)
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Alright. You scared me enough. Getting a new cable.
Sure is not easy measuring these things.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0244.jpg)
Also, pulled the windshield. Going to Masterglas Wednesday.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1130089.jpg)
Degreased and cleaned the motor. Touched up all scratches. Gonna need a good wax now. Watch out Dave!!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1130093.jpg)
Did some more Gelcoating and wet sanding too.
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Measure from nut to nut and add 18". I have a couple 15' (that would be 13.6 nut to nut) Also the length is written on the cable.
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Ready for the dump.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0210.jpg)
Way late I know but why wouldnt that thing make a nice swim platform or something like that? If a guy had a cabin and kids, I bet they'd like it. I would.
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Most of those original cables weren't marked with the length, and I don't remember what the length was on my replacement. But, I've got this diagram you can use to determine the proper size cable. Measure the boat according to the pic using inches (A+B+C), add 6 inches if you are using the tilt tube on the engine, subtract 6 inches if you're using a splashwell mount. Round up to the nearest foot and that should be the cable you need. With your setup I would eliminate the splashwell mount and just use the engine tilt tube, it looks like you've got enough room to install the cable without having to cut a new hole in the side of the splashwell.
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If you don't want to go with the double helm, at least use the tilt tube. That set-up you have scares me. You have no idea how bad chine-walk can get around 60 with no pad to run on.
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Rich, that link you posted with the cable has a real nice measuring video on it. I think I got it figured out.
The cable i have is in perfect working order. I like the tilt tube style better. I don't think this boat will do 60 so I am not too worried about chime walking but I don't need the motor steering coming disconnected. I think the single helm would be fine for now.
Jerry, I have 13'-6" from nut to tilt tube so I would need a 15' cable. Do you have one that you would be willing to sell? I would need the adapter too but looks like I can get that individually. Otherwise I can trade you for a complete Morse control system with a 16' cable.
Ross, I thought about that too. You would need to have a battery and a bilge pump in it all the time. I just didn't want it sitting around forever and the trailer is more valuable without a junky boat on it.
This is a morse Command helm connection. .750 diameter I assume the Teleflex quick disconnect is different?
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0246.jpg)
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Looking good Jason. Those Mercurys are beautiful motors. We will have to figure out the best prop for you. Believe your lower unit ratio is 1.7 to 1, in which case about a 21" pitch would be the best. For the boat show, perhaps slam your 23" Laser II from the I/O. If you want, I can polish it.
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I have 2 15' cables with nuts on both ends. I think that is what u need. Maybe we can get the bunch together for breakfast at Denny's after the First, or maybe next week when some are off work. You guys can see what I'm up to. Jim - Gregg - David - Ross - Thoughts anyone?
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Even better Jerry! The nut is what I need. I think switching to the quick disconnect was a cost savings for them over the threaded fittings. I'll create a post for a breakfast day. It's a good idea!
I have a 17", 19", and a 23" alum props that I can try on this boat. None of them are in great shape but the 19" was going to be my starting point. I agree, the 23" laser II will look nice on this motor. It could use a good polishing if your up for Dave. Swap at a upcoming breakfast meet?
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A breakfast soon sounds great. I will be doing income tax returns again this year so Saturdays will be out starting after January or so.
Jason bring the prop. Gregg also. I can do minor touchups on props if anyone needs it.
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I think some breakfast meets would be good. I'll try to make one or two. Helps break up the winter. Plus good oppoortunity to swap parts, hand off props etc.
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Is this better?
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0247.jpg)
Also, what is this for?
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0255.jpg)
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Maybe .....
14# LEVER ASSEMBLY, Tilt Lock, Single Ram Power Trim
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/tlittranass.jpg)
OR ...
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/ttas2.jpg)
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Merc/Mercury/1980/1150620/parts.html
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Merc/Mercury/1980/1150620/SWIVEL%20BRACKET%20AND%20STEERING%20ARM/parts.html
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On that engine it isn't a locking "lever" that swings up to lock the engine in the up position. Instead I believe it's a push-in/out lock that just lets the engine rest on a pin when it's up. Parts 12-16 in the second pic above.
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Gregg that bottom image looks like my motor. I think my #11's have the arms either cut or busted off. Maybe that button allowed the #11 to turn down. You can't move that motor at all against the power trim. It's solid. Oh well, Hopefully my power trim never goes out!
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Mine has a cut out in bracket to a bleed screw to release ram pressure.
Go here and plug in your seial number ...
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/parts.html
http://www.mercuryparts-direct.com/fiche_select.asp?srt=mfg
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That looks a lot safer Jason. Everything fit OK?
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That looks a lot safer Jason. Everything fit OK?
Fit perfectly! Thanks Jerry.
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Is this better?(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0247.jpg)
Mucho bettero. Now alls ya need to do is raise the motor a hole or two ...
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Big improvement Jason. Check for any play in the steering system by turning the steering wheel to see if the motor turns immediately. If not, see what needs to be tightened up.
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Check for any play in the steering system by turning the steering wheel to see if the motor turns immediately. If not, see what needs to be tightened up.
You tighten it up with a dual-helm system.
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Buffed, waxed, ready for the show! Just need a windshield now!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1060978.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1060981.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1060982.jpg)
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Lookin' good Jason !
We (Jeff, Tim & I) got Tim's CVX shined up yesterday ...
Forgot camera but she's lookin' good also ...
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Looking good guys.
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I agree, she looks great Jason. Nice work buddy! ;)
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Looks great Jason!
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Looks great! When's the test drive?
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Just in Time!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/P1130192.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/P1130194.jpg)
Also found evidence that my boat at one time had the vinyl racing stripe on the bow. Since there is no fading I am guessing it was removed by the dealer. Maybe it was "too much" with all the extra add on's on the bow.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/P1130191.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/Screenshot2012-01-17at55618PM.png)
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Pride of the fleet !
She aint a "Dog boat" any more ...
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Tell us about the windshield replacement. Boat looks fantastic. I can cover for you on Thursday.
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Jason, that is one good looking old heifer.....Stick your chest out and be proud.
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Took the old windshield to Masterglas in Lakeville MN. He was able to make templates from the old pieces and bend new pieces. Turned out great. big props to those guys for fitting me into their busy workload. They do boat windshields and other personal jobs on the side as they don't make much money on them. Steve, the owner is a big boat fan himself and was nice to talk too. Jim B. with his V174 and Scott with the CV19 has also had their windshields done here. Reasonable pricing too.
Thanks for covering for me Thursday Dave!
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My 67 V163 had the racing stripe too and I took it off. That was before I was interested in "original" it may go back on.
I really like the windshield frame on that boat. It looks robust, not flimsy.
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Windshield is the finishing touch. It looks totally different and complete now. I'm curious to see what the performance gain is going to be with athe 150 on the back. Good HP boost over the other motor.
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First test run ran 39mph (boat speedo) at 5200 RPM's with 19' alum prop.
Raised the motor 1.5" (2 holes). Looks about right. We'll see what happens. Hopefully I can get out this weekend.
Also tested the fuel enricher. Sure is spitting out fuel when I remove the outlet hose. Also blew through hose to make sure it was not clogged. I probably just need to learn how she operates!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0310.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0311.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0312.jpg)
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I'd think you'd be able to spin a 21 or 23 pitch with ease on that 150. I'm spinning a 12 3/4 x 21 OMC SST on my 115 at 5000 - 5200 WOT depending on the trim position.
That boat sure looks nice. As I said in an earlier post, the windshield makes it.
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Ya your're gettin there Jason but ya need a bigger wheel.
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Regarding 39 mph @5200 RPM......Are you still able to read the part number on that prop? Might just be the angle but it looks like an old style Mercruiser prop (early design) the newer style typically run on v6 outboards should be 48-78120 a40 (for a 19 pitch) I think (by Memory). The old style M/C will bolt on but had lower rake......shorter (stubby) blades and no cupping.....running one of those would produce less speed I would think, although it should allow more RPM as well.............If it is an old style I suspect you will notice the lack of cupping with the motor on the third hole.
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You are smart!
It is a mercruiser prop. It's the old prop off my 140 in the CV16SS. I have a 17p that came with the motor but figured that would not be enough as the motor came off a big eavy 19' deckboat. Only other prop I have laying around to try out is a 23p laser II. I am guessing that will be too much though.
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You are smart!
It is a mercruiser prop. It's the old prop off my 140 in the CV16SS. I have a 17p that came with the motor but figured that would not be enough as the motor came off a big eavy 19' deckboat. Only other prop I have laying around to try out is a 23p laser II. I am guessing that will be too much though.
Jason,
If it's the large hub Merc, I have several from my 174, ( 19 / 21 / 23 ).
Do you want to bring a couple Saturday?
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Jim, if you want to bring the 21 I would like to try that. Thanks!
Weather looks nice this weekend. Maybe some more testing!
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Another beautiful day for a boat ride in February! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO-JPVUiooE&feature=youtu.be
Brought a GPS this time. looks my mechanical speedo is about 2-3mph slow which means on my first run last week i was running 39 at 5200RPM.
Raised the motor 1.5".
Now with the same 19p prop I am running 43 at 4600RPM...No idea why the RPM's dropped.
Then I tried Jim's 21p SS quicksilver prop and ran 47 at 4800 RPM's.
I still want to try my 23p Laser II. Another day.........
Still starts hard.
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Much better !
But your still NUTZ ! ! !
... LOL
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(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0313.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1130375.jpg)
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Aha!! Now yer talkin Jason. Outstanding!
Not to be premature but I'd say go up another hole'n try swingin the 23.
Btw your GPS track looks like my stitching after a hard night ...?
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Congrats, your v172 is now your faster boat. Looks like you may get it to 50.
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Lookin' good but me thinks you should be seeing more rpm than 4600-4800 and speeds closer if not more than 50 mph. Are you sure that engine is running on all 6 cylinders?
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I was thinking the same thing Rich. RPM's should be higher. Speed a little better too. I used Steve's spark tester after I got the motor and it appeared to be sparking on all 6. At an idle it seems a little rough. Boat shakes a little.
The seller told me he had a marine mechanic go through the carbs and it appears as though someone has been in there (new hoses) I guess that does not mean it was done right.
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Something I will often do is run the engine and pull off plug wires one at a time and listen for a difference in the way it runs. You should also be able to tell if there spark by listening for the arc go "snap snap snap" with the boot just barely off the plug. If you haven't done so do a compression check of the cylinders. It could even be something as simple as a weak fuel pump, a tank vent clog, bad primer bulb on the fuel hose, or an air leak at a fuel fitting that could be causing the engine to starve for fuel.
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I have done the old pull a plug wire when the motor is running to check for a dead cylinder on a ford 460 with a MSD ignition system in it. Turns out one of the wires had a crack in it so I had 40,000 volts go through my body. Not Fun! been to scared to try it again after that. Do you just grab them an pull them off with your hands? I also fried out a coil on a civic once pulling the wires when running. I really don't want to burn up one of those ignition boxes on this motor.
I did a compression test. One gauge said 150 on all cylinders and a different one said 110 on all cylinders. So I guess it's in there somewhere??????
Anyone have the sync-n-link instructions for this engine? I figure it wouldn't hurt to make sure the timing is all correct.
I was moving the throttle lever manually and when you move the lever for the advance on the ignition it makes a rubbing noise in the flywheel area. Not sure if thats normal or not. I was going to pull the flywheel to see if anything looks "goofy"
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As far as I know nothing should be touching the flywheel, the rotation of the trigger coil with the throttle should be pretty smooth and stable. Also make sure it's moving to it's maximum setting and not getting hung up in between.
Sometimes I do get zapped from a plug wire, but I kinda enjoy it. If I've had enough juice then I'll use a long insulated pliers to pull a boot. If you have an induction timing light you can use that to test each plug for spark just by clipping the inductor to each wire. This will help tell you if you've got a bad coil. If you find a coil not firing you can substitute another coil by swapping them. If the same position still doesn't fire then the problem is in the ignition switch box. If the problem follows the coil you've moved then the coil is at fault. Pulling a wire will not usually affect the ignition boxes as long as the spark has somewhere to go.
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What was the top speed with the 950? Does your speed and rpm change as much as you would expect from lowest trim to trimmed "out"? What is your serial number? I have Mercury service manuels for sync & link.
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Top speed with the 950 was only about 30 and could rarely get the RPM's over 3000. That was the main reason for the motor swap. I would rather put my money into a higher HP motor than the old 95hp.
Serial number: 5751560 1980 V6 150HP
I have one of those inductive timing lights. That is a good idea Rich!
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Another thing I forgot to mention, and I've seen this happen - check your plug wires at night in the dark when running the engine. If you see arching anywhere along the wires or boots to engine ground then replace the wire(s). You could be loosing power from insufficient spark even though the components test ok. On occasion I've used liquid black tape on the coil terminals and plug wire posts to insulate the connections and this has helped but the wires should be replaced. When they get old their internal resistance goes up causing the current to take the path of least resistance to ground, by leaking around the boots.
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You said you used Steves spark tester ?
Not really sure how it works but mine had strong spark across the gap, Did yours ?
Rich
Wouldn't that rule out ignition/spark problems ?
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A spark tester shows that you've got spark, true. But bad wires can give you intermittent spark if they're leaking to engine ground. It would be hard to determine from a spark tester if you're in fact getting a spark at the plug on every revolution of the crank so if you see arching at the coil boot then that's spark that's not firing a cylinder at that moment which could result in a loss of power. Now, if I'm not mistaken on a 6 cylinder Merc each spark plug fires twice for every one revolution, once when the piston is at the top of the compression stroke and once at the bottom of the stroke. This is because the trigger coil under the flywheel has only 3 triggers which feed both switch boxes simultaneously. One switch box fires the even cylinders, the other fires the odd cylinders. So, because the way the ignition system is wired at the switch boxes cylinders 1 and 4 fire simultaneously, same for cylinders 2 & 5 and 3 & 6. Where it matters is when a plug fires at the top of the stroke that provides combustion.
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My goof - what I posted above is for the in-line 6 Merc with electronic ignition. For a V6 Merc cylinders 1 & 2 fire simutaneously, 3 & 4, 5 & 6. Here's the diagram:
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/27377_wiring.jpg)
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Pulling plug wires while running can assess function (cylinder production) as a whole........the attached are two tools for this purpose.....the black handled one is from Snap on, number YA824-b and the blue one is a buss fuse puller numberBP/FP-z from Ace Hardware for about 12.00. The blue one is all plastic and no one has been shocked using it, the other is metal and its sole purpose is pulling plug wires. Thats electrical tape on the handles.................
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/plyiers1.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/plyier2.jpg)
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Jason, a 21" pitch prop may be the best pitch for you, about 1 MPH for every 100 RPM (47 at 4,800). If you hit 50 MPH, your RPM's might be around 5,100, with your max RPM's 5,250.
For props, the bass and walleye crowd like the Mercury Tempest, Mercury Trophy, and Mercury Laser II.
Mercury's online prop selector: http://www.mercurymarine.com/propellers/prop-selector/#
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If you would like to borrow the complete manuel let me know......we can try to figure a way to get it to you.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/lns01.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/lns02.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/lns03.jpg)
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Thank you Retro!
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You are welcome........if you need more let me know.
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A little Retarded.
Went through the entire procedure. Everything was pretty close with exception to the max timing. Was set at 8, should be 18! That should help out in the RPM department. Hopefully starting too.
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That should make a huge difference.
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Yer not really retarded Jason, just not quite advanced as the rest of us.
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Yer not really retarded Jason, just not quite advanced as the rest of us.
Uggh. Granpappy Jack called a joke like that a 'groaner' ...
Hey didn't Sarah Palin say we weren't sposed to use the term "retard" anymore ...?
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Its all in the timing.
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Its all in the timing.
Arrgh. Okay if you insist: Timing is everything.
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Beautiful day for a boat ride! 70 some degrees!
My pond is gettting HUGE. I can even go under the little hudson pier bridge now. Plenty of ice bergs to watch out for though.
Well, timing didn't help top end much. 47 at 4700 with 21P Laser.
Either the timing or warm weather sure helped with the starting. Fired right up!
Seems to run rough at idle and the entire boat shakes a little. I made sure all 6 cylinders are firing with my timing light so we got spark. Are there idle mixture screws or adjustments on these carbs? Anyone have any scans from the manual for carb adjustment? Once you get up over 2K it runs nice and smooth and does not feel like it's running short on fuel at WOT.
1980 150HP V6 Idle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD1gZqGKxyM#ws)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1130546.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1130543.jpg)
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Your ponds gettin' bigger every day !
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Outstanding Jason! Bet the motor was luvin that cold water. 4700 rpm is way too low. Are you sure yer gettin wide open throttle? Cain't imagine a 21 being too much wheel? What's the diameter?
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From what I remember those V6's did chatter a bit when they idle. It sounds normal, maybe a little mis here or there. I think those carbs have set jets in them for both idle and open throttle, there's no adjustments. That engine should be turning up to 5500 rpm.
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Hmmmmmm........Carbs are fixed jet, I do have factory manuels, but no low speed mixture adjusting.. What did you find for the "rubbing" by the flywheel when you moved the trigger linkage? Do you know what the boat weighs (measured or spec?)......What is the speed difference trim all the way down and trim all the way up? Let me know if you want scans from the manuel, happy to help if I can.
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Jason, both your 95 HP and the 150 HP seemed to have problems in not meeting expectations as to performance. Wonder if your hull has alot of trapped water under the floor. I remember the bottom side being discolored from sitting in the water then you bought the boat. Is there a way to check for this by sound tapping, by weighing the entire package and subtracting the trailer weight by a separate weighing and then comparing that weight with published weights for your boat and motor? Just some thoughts.
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Trim all the way down is scary! Almost wants to roll over! I think because I have the motor raised 2".
I couldn't get the flywheel off to look at the stator. Looks like you need a special puller to get it off.
Boat SHOULD weigh about 1100 pounds without a motor, gas, people, ect. Has only about 1/4 tank now.
I drilled 2" holes in the bilge area as close to the floor as possible. One in each of the four "sections" of the floor. It's been about a year so if there was any water trapped in there it would have run out. Seems like it would have dried out by now.
I should throw it on the scale and see what happens. I assume the trailer is about 500lbs.
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I have a flywheel popper for the Mercs, used mine just last week. They can be found on ebay for decent prices.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Mariner-Yamaha-Force-Outboard-1-1-2-16-Flywheel-Puller-91-849154T1-/370591706401?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item5648fcad21&vxp=mtr#ht_4561wt_1219 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Mariner-Yamaha-Force-Outboard-1-1-2-16-Flywheel-Puller-91-849154T1-/370591706401?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item5648fcad21&vxp=mtr#ht_4561wt_1219)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Mariner-Flywheel-Puller-91-849154T1-Lift-Ring-91-90455-1-Lifting-Eye-/310384116110?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item484455c18e&vxp=mtr#ht_4577wt_1219 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Mariner-Flywheel-Puller-91-849154T1-Lift-Ring-91-90455-1-Lifting-Eye-/310384116110?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item484455c18e&vxp=mtr#ht_4577wt_1219)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-OptiMax-Outboard-Flywheel-Puller-91-849154T-1-/140535160526?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item20b88c5ece&vxp=mtr#ht_2683wt_944 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-OptiMax-Outboard-Flywheel-Puller-91-849154T-1-/140535160526?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item20b88c5ece&vxp=mtr#ht_2683wt_944)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Puller-Flywheel-Removal-Tool-Mercury-Mariner-Outboards-/230742924258?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item35b9599be2&vxp=mtr#ht_3934wt_944 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Puller-Flywheel-Removal-Tool-Mercury-Mariner-Outboards-/230742924258?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&hash=item35b9599be2&vxp=mtr#ht_3934wt_944)
(http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/download/file.php?id=12303)
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Got the flywheel off. Everything looked OK. This is the noise I was hearing when moving the throttle. Sound and look normal to you?
1980 150hp V6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6rZB5QYKok#)
Also, took it out today and ran it on a 6 gallon tank with a different fuel line and bulb. Speed results didn't change which tells me that my existing fuel tank, venting, bulb, ect all must be good.
Took the boat to the truck stop and weighed the boat and trailer. Weighed in at a total of 2260. Sounds about right to me.
Full tank of gas plus another 5 gallons in my extra tank: 138lbs
Engine with SS prop: roughly 400lbs
anchor: 20lbs
battery: 40lbs
Misc stuff in boat: 50lbs
Boat hull according to glastron: 780lbs
That leaves 832lbs for the trailer which seems high. More likely 500lbs.
So that leaves an extra 332lbs to account for something......... If water it's 100 gallons worth! Or glastron is off on it's estimate of 780lbs.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG.jpg)
Then on my test run the power trim completely went out. Would only hold trim for about a minute sitting still and 10 seconds under power. Luckily I had my transom saver to get it home! So i pulled the pump and installed some plugs in the lines to see if it drops. It's been three hours and has not moved yet. Also tore apart my trim pump and found a piece of plastic lodged in one of the valves. Probably my problem right there.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0358.jpg)
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0357.jpg)
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I think that bit of play on the trigger is normal. Does it advance all the way with the throttle or is it getting hung up halfway?
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It's moving all the way.
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I can't remember what your trailer looks like off hand but I wouldn't think 700 lbs would be out of the question. Only way to know for sure is take the empty trailer back to the scale...I've been thinking of taking my rig to the truck stop also, maybe before (no interior or engine) and after with all the bells and whistles.
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Well as many of you have known I had engine problems Saturday. Well, Jerry Sellner is in the process of going through my carbs right now. In the mean time I figured I would check a few things. Spark: Looks good on all 6 cylinders. That's the end of the good.... Compression: dropped about 10psi since I installed the motor. Even worse..... Leak down: Went from 8-18% across the 6 cylinders to 20-30% on all the cylinders. So basically this motor is in need of a full rebuild. I think I found the cause of my problem too. I went to check the thermostat's.........missing! So this means water was just pouring through the engine and not staying in long enough to even cool the cylinders. Overheating is the likely cause for this failure.
Soooooo. Not sure what I am going to do.
I could put the old 95hp back on and leave it as is. Good motor, consistent 10% leak down across all 6 cylinders, starts in a half a second, and has never let me down, just a slow motor on this boat.
Or I could look for a mid or late 80's I6 115 Merc for another transplant and swap the shrouds with my old 95 to keep the classic look.
I really like the boat but Jamie would like a CV23 so I may end up selling it anyway.
ANYONE LOOKING FOR A 1980 150 V6 PARTS MOTOR??????
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/Boat%20Meet%202012/IMG_4606.jpg)
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So your in the market for a CV23 ...
Hummm ...
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And you had a nice test drive in a CVX-20...
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/Boat%20Meet%202012/IMG_4687.jpg)
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I went to check the thermostat's.........missing! So this means water was just pouring through the engine and not staying in long enough to even cool the cylinders. Overheating is the likely cause for this failure.
I dont get this. Not staying in long enough to cool? Wouldnt that also mean it was pumping fresh cool water right through? I dont understand how it could overheat. I would think it wasnt getting up to operating temp, but what do I know...
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In some engines and plumbing configurations it's quite conceivable an engine can still overheat without a thermostat in place. It gives the water direction to flow when closed and opens in small amounts to let hot water escape in order to regulate the engine temperature. Without it you could end up with water in-water out without being circulated through the block.
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In the v6 Mercury I think the Thermostat controls water flow at low speed......when RPM (water pressure) goes up the poppett valve opens and allows water to "bypass" and flow freely, when pressure lowers again the poppett closes and the Stat takes control again, this way the engine makes temp at low speeds for running quality and has maximum flow volume when cooling demand is at a maximum. Maybe there is a problem with flow at high speed causing overheat and someone tried pulling the stats to correct? Poppett is on the lower right side of the powerhead at the adapter plate I think ???????
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I just went back an re-read some of these posts to figure out what we were talking about. ;D
If you're having an overheat problem and there are no thermostats then that engine should run cold pretty much all the time. I suspect though that the impeller has gone south as I have seen a few times this year already. If the vanes are not broken then the rubber could be spun free from the hub.
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::) :P
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Well, more news.
I took the motor over to the Master (Jerry Sellner) and had him check things out.
Fist, one spark plug is intermittently not firing.
Second, a bad exhaust gasket and possibly head gaskets are leaking water into the cylinders and fouling the plugs.
Third, a couple floats in the carbs are foam and were absorbing fuel and not floating correctly.
And most importantly, Jerry ran a compression and leak down test using his equipment and compression was good (115-120) on all cylinders and under 10% leak down. Soooo with carb rebuilds, new gaskets, and a new spark plug this motor should be good to go.
Jerry also said to just put a washer in place of the thermostat's as it will slow down the water flow enough to cool.
So the 150 should live again!!! If any of you ever have outboard problems this is the guy to go to! Thanks Jerry.
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Thats good news. I think its a good fit on that boat too!
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Jason, is the V172 what you're putting the transom in?
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Me? Transom? I hope not!!
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So the 150 should live again!!!
Suweet! Glad it wasn't anything catastrophic.
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Good to hear it was a cheap & easy fix !
Told ya ... ya shouldn't have sold your CV ...
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Well now at least it should be fast enough to race with the Sellner boys!
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They will be racing Saturday and Sunday at Lakeside Park in Forest Lake.
Anybody want to go?
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Anybody want to go?
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3538.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3538.0)
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Guess I need to read everything. We may go watch Sunday.
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Sellner rebuilt carbs installed:
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1160221.jpg)
Now it's time to install new cylinder head gaskets and exhaust plate gaskets which were shot.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1160222.jpg)
Yea, it's got a HEMI!
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/P1160224.jpg)
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I have heard horror storys about getting exhaust plate bolts out ...
Looks like ya didn't snap any off !
Keep up the good work !
... LOL
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I'm not familiar with outboards, so how many carbs does that thing have, and what fuel volume are they running. I'm used to only one aka 650 Edelbrock. Outboards are alien to me.
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Lookin good Jason.
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Barb
Most big outboard motors have a carb for each cyl.
On say a Johnson 50/60/70 hp motor the C.I.'s are the same but the carbs and jetting would get larger, port timing and compression would go up, etc. etc ...
Could be the same with Jason's 150 hp motor, (Maybe) the carbs get bigger and port timing changes to make it a Merc 175 hp motor.
Compared to a sbc motor there pretty simple.
How Two-stroke Engines Work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuCUmQ9FxMU#)
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Snap any off???? you mean the screws? Probably because I used a cordless impact to get them off. Only took about 10 minutes to pull the heads and exhaust plate. best thing about the V6 is that it's so EASY to work on.
It's all back together now. maybe a test run tomorrow!
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Cool Jason, glad to see it is working out! Can't wait to see the results.
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If ya take her out for a test run ...
Were going on one the the diner cruisers on the St.Croix out of Stillwater, so buzz around us if ya get a chance ...
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Buzzed around all 4 of the big ferry boats out on the water tonight Gregg. Did you se us? We made a nice trip up to Stillwater, had dinner, then came back. boat is running as well as it did before the glastron meet but still is not right. Still not getting the RPM's........
Running out of ideas.
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How is the boat positioned in the water as it is on plane? Is alot of the boat in the water? Does the hull have a hook in the back that is pushing the bow down? Where is the horizontal cavitation plate in relation to the bottom of the hull? What prop are you using? Did Jerry Sellner recommend a prop for your setup?
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Thought we were going on a boat out of Stillwater, but it was the one in Afton (Afton Princess).
Nice cruise, good food and a nice but cool night.
Could you try a smaller prop ?
Just to see if you can get the rpm's up ...
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I am running a 21P, tried a 19 and 17 before with no change in RPM's only looses top end speed and better acceleration.
Dave:
Seems to plane out nicely. Never noticed a hook in the hull....... The cavitation plate is right at the bottom of the hull or maybe an inch above it.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/1967%20V172/IMG_0311.jpg)