Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: 75starflight on March 12, 2012, 09:04:08 PM
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Decided to remove the old carpet today to find something I did not expect.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/DSCF5902.jpg)
A nice quarter inch gap between the wood and the hull it self and the wood is rotted. But the good news is that I did a thump test and found what sounded like good wood under the gas tank, so that does not have to be removed. The other spot I found is in the rear about 12 inches forward of the engine it self and all the way under both foam boxes. But that is self was no surprise, because when I removed the jump seats I found some water soaked floor. another good thing is the stringers feel solid when I walked directly on them.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/DSCF5904.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/DSCF5903.jpg)
Any ideas on removal of the rotted wood? I am thinking a skill saw with the blade set at around a 1/2 inch to start.
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You have to be careful with a circular saw, don't want to go through the floor or have it get away from you, it's also harder to follow the curvature of the wood around the edge. When I pulled my floor I used a RotoZip with a cutting wheel to just cut through the fiberglass layer around the edge of the wood.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Wood%20Removal/IMG_0002-3.jpg)
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Rich
After the change on CGOA, can't find your restro thread.
Could you post it ?
Ban One
read Rich's thread before starting ...
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It's the first one as a "sticky" in the Glastron Projects section.
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=147 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=147)
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Thanks for the info guys. I do have access to a rotor zip so I will probably start with that tomorrow evening after work. Man it is nice having daylight almost till 8pm. By the way i did find those 2 wires that go to the stern drive, Thanks for that information Rich, I will be installing the jumper tomorrow also.
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Thanks Rich ...
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My floors were pretty rotted I just used a claw hammer and pry bar...and be careful with a circular saw, my uncle put a 1/8" hole about 3 inches long in a hull before.
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I have lost track of how many floor repair jobs there are going on right now! Crazy!
Nice to see so many old Glastron's getting "saved".
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Well, I got about 45 minutes of work in today, but at least I got the front 2 soft sections cut out
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/4F6446EA-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/48935DF8-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/530E362A-orig.jpg)
Since I uncovered a stringer I did a thump and poke test and the stringer is solid. I also checked the under side of the exposed decking and it is good and solid, and the floatation foam was also dry to the touch. And what I thought was rot is actually delamination of the plywood.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/F3FD92BC-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/BCEFD4B3-orig.jpg)
Second hole cut, the wood is soaked in the one spot but stringer is solid and the under side of the decking here is also dry to the touch. I also found the seam for the back section in front of the engine and cut the fiber glass that is covering the two main sections.
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So far mostly good news! Keep it up!
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Got the floor out of the back this weekend. I think the boat lost about 50lbs of water soaked wood weight. Stringers also seem in good shape, there is a little water penetration in the exposed wood on the stringers them selves but doing a thump test and prodding them with a screw driver found them solid. The upper flotation foam is dry to the touch here but the lower foam is wet but not soaked to the point where water would squeeze out when you pressed on it.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/5E4FBB53-orig.jpg)
Flotation foam removed the bottom 2 inches of each box was soaked. NO glass between floor and foam.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/95404F77-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/196173B1-orig.jpg)
Decided to take the floor up in two sections to make the refit go a little smoother.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/009AEFC5-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/097F4384-orig.jpg)
And last but not least the wood from the right hand side soaked enough it started falling apart during removal.
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Got the rear floor installed and glassed in this weekend, but going to add a new layer of glass to the whole floor to add some protection from the elements. I have that about 3/4 of the way done but have to wait to finish until my local parts stores get some more cloth in. I have been working with 2' x 4' sections of glass.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/9DDD6C4D-orig.jpg)
Got the steering wheel installed this weekend too, and removed the swim ladder to do a little polishing and fix the mounting problem it had.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/01571FAD-orig.jpg)
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Removed the ladder over the weekend, and finished glassing the floor. I discovered that I need to replace the wood for the ladder mount because the original is glassed in to low to catch the upper mounting screws of the ladder. Also I decided to take apart the ladder and start the polishing process.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/E8CF1446-orig.jpg)
My boss's son turned me on to a product called Wizards Metal Polish. He gave me some of his to see if it would work on the most tarnished parts of the ladder. I am sold.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/1A398FF7-orig.jpg)
That is just the first pass on that part. There is also a sealant that will be applied to it that will add a little more shine.
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Things are going well on the starflite, still waiting for the seats I ordered to come in from Veada Industries. Got the right hand foam box put back together and the new support board installed for the ladder. I have been doing alot of polishing on the ladder. The bottom half is done and put back together, The top half is waiting for one more final polish and then it will be assembled. Today, I decided to tackle my towing eyes one had a little droop, and alot of wear on the pivot point the other just needed the wore down areas at the pivot point built up. When I removed the drooping one I discoved that the fiberglass below the hole for the screw was broken out and gone(sorry I did not get a picture), so I decided to use some plastic weld to build up the area, I also used plastic weld to build up the pivot points on the towing eyes.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/D01EFAA5-orig.jpg)
Then when reinstalling them I reinforced them with 2 different sizes of stainless fender washers for added support. After they were reinstalled I decided to do a little polishing.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/36A2F2FC-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/83610DE9-orig.jpg)
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Ya gotta love cutting/grinding fiberglass. One of my favorites! NOT. Keep up the good work.
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Ross, I can agree with you there. I got the last glassing done yesterday. And boy I can tell you I am glad to be done with that!
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Got a lot of work done on the Starflite this weekend. 1st got the foam boxes done, glassed in, and filled with foam. 2nd had the top out in the sun warmed up and got it and the side curtains stretched out and snapped in place, I have to modify one bow to make it work for my application going to do that during the week. I plan on leaving the top up this next week since we are going to have some warm temps again to get it to loosen up some more. And finally the last thing I got done, I installed the glove box and reinstalled the storage locker door.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Untitled.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/49E8BD43-orig.jpg)
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I have a lot of work to do during this next week, but I am finally in the home stretch. My seats finally came from Veada Industries today, and I also got my engine parts also.
What do you all think of the seats? They are a light brown(corado cafe) and Sun set orange.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/DSCF5995.jpg)
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That orange inset is going to look really sweet with the dash work. Good job.
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Well all, it is only Tuesday and my week has been grand so far. >:( Well to start off the week on Monday my tow vehicle, a 1999 GMC Yukon, the fuel pump crapped out last night. But the good thing is I got the new water pump, thermostat, and hoses installed inthe boat with out a problem. And then there is today.... went to remove the starter on the starflite and the short mounting bolt came part way out, and then it decided to twist off with an 1/8" of thread showing. >:( My question is what else can go wrong yet this week? Right now I pray nothing!
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The end of the week is turning out to be much better. My Yukon ended up baffling my mechanic, wouldn't start then he checked for spark(had spark) hooked up the fuel pressure gauge and it fired right up. Had him change the fuel filter since it had not been changed since the current pump was installed. Also, I have to say I LOVE JB80. I sprayed some on the broken starter bolt over my lunch hour, then this evening I decided to try to remove it. Well, I got a hold of it with a pair of needle nose vise grips, wiggled it a little back and forth, and was able to remove it by hand. ;D While I wait again for another new starter to show up I think I will try to get my wiring finished up, and if mother nature lets me on Sunday get my carpet installed.
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Those seats will look super slick!
Great job with the bolt too!
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75starflite The fuel pumps on those truck start to work intermittently sometimes when they are going out.( sounds like you replaced it recently though) When ever one would get towed into the shop instead of pushing it inside we would get a rubber mallet and bang on the bottom of the tank and then the pump would start working again. It is just a temporary fix sometime they would run for a while other times not. So if you get stranded try to bang on the bottom of the tank. Might get you home at least. Just my experience anyway.
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I had a GMC once............ I don't anymore. Fuel pump problems are common those. If you did replace the pump hopefully they put in a GM pump and not a cheapy aftermarket.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/coolpl8z_Image001.jpg)
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Shawn, Jason,
Well actually where I work we used to be a GM dealer on top of a CaseIH ag, but when the Big GM bailout came we were one of the first dealers to have our contract pulled. Oh how I miss the Convience of having an auto shop at work. But any who, the fuel pump that is in there right now is a genuine GM, all i have to say is i am not impressed. I know my mechanic won't put in a napa junk one. Hey Shawn, I like what you did on the orange metal flake on your gtron.
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The weekend went good! Got all of my wiring finished up, just need to do a little cable management under the dash. Got the carpet installed today, but discovered while testing how the jump seats will fit that I need to add a 2x4 riser so the back of the seat rests against the foam box. Hopefully, my other new starter will show up on Tuesday so I can get the boat fired up, serviced and make sure every thing is working. I am starting to think Rathbun is going to be the first lake I hit this year. By the way, the carpet looks grey in the pictures but it is actually a weathered wood color.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/618C8170-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/E182B423-orig.jpg)
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Diggin' the carpet look!
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All the seats are got installed tonight. I still have to install the gas tank cover and wire up the light in it.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/DSCF5997.jpg)
Sorry it was getting dark and the flash was off
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/DSCF5998.jpg)
One with the flash on. I will take a couple more tomorrow after noon if it isn't raining here.
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Nice job, Brandon!
Those seats do look really cool.
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Seats look great! Really match the boat nicely.
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Its finally ready for Rathbun, I believe i have all my issues addressed. The steering is now installed correctly, and found my idle problem was the throttle return spring was sprung, it now holds idle around 650rpm. Just thought I would share a few pics of her finished and polished.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/DSCF6004.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/DSCF6005.jpg)
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That's one beautiful boat Brandon! Can't wait to see her in person on Friday!
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got the out drive painted over the weekend and all i have to say is boy there was a lot of corrosion due to the anodes being used up.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/DA8F599D-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/4DC38889-orig.jpg)
all sanded and scuffed. took an 80 grit flapper wheel and a wire brush to get it done.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/E9EFAB9F-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/FE1C1C6F-orig.jpg)
wasted anodes
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/7A67EF11-orig.jpg)
part way there
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/FDDE1EEA-orig.jpg)
isn't it shiny.
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Lookin' good!
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Nice job, Brandon. I don't have it in me to worry about painting my motor. I've got some deep chips & a skeg that needs to be re-done. Used lower unit, looks like the skeg was trimmed considerably.
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Looks good! Are you guys arriving on Thursday in Red Wing? Or Friday?
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going to arrive in the morning on friday. driving part of the way to ames, ia and staying there thursday night. I want to take amber to Hickory Park. I have told her how good it is every time I go to Ames for training for work. so if anyone want to meet us there for supper thursday we would love the company.
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That looks familiar! Makes a big difference to the overall appearance of the boat doesn't it! Nice work.
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Found a matching black original bilge vent on ebay, I thought about painting both vents to match the orange before Red Wing, but I decided I would not have the time so I installed it today.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/2AB68081-orig.jpg)
Plus my three props I purchased for around $100.00 each from ebay showed up. four blade quicksilver aluminum 18p, Laser II 21P, and Michigan Wheel Ballistic 21p. By the way, these three props will be coming to Red Wing with us if any one wants to try them.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/1B675A49-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/E14F2BF2-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/BD5ACA74-orig.jpg)
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I'd really like to test out that 21P laser on my V172.
Those bilge covers don't look to bad black either. Nice find! Those are really tuff to find.
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That won't be a problem. I will have all three with me all weekend. I am hoping to get them all tested before we leave for Red Wing on Thursday.
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I have a 23 laser you can try too but I think it will be too much for your boat. Best performing prop I found for my cv16SS with a 140 mercruiser.
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I'll give it a try. Merc 120 to 140, I might be able to swing it.
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I would be interested in buying the 21 Laser II, for a 19CSS. Tom Stibbe 608-788-2772 home. I will be attending on Saturday.
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Sorry Tom, just purchased it, and still have not tried it out. Plus I want to play with it for a little while.
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75 Starflite:
After you do some testing, if you decide to sell the 21" Laser II, I would purchase it. Thanks, TS
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Well the Phoenix is officially off of the water for the rest of the year. Went out yesterday with the measurements Rich provided for his 470 to see what would need to be done with the engine bay and cover and discovered that one of the front engine mount lag bolts was sitting on top of the engine mount. So I screwed it back in by hand and started pulling up on it, and guess what happened.....It pulled right out along with a lot of dry rotted wood. So now I think the Phoenix is going to get a full floor and stringer rebuild. I was hoping to do that in the winter of 2012-2013.
As for the 470 upgrade, Its not going to happen! Its going to take too much modification, and we still want to keep the original look of the boat. If i can find a good 140 over the winter during the rebuild I might install it.
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Did an evaluation of the needed repairs of the front engine mount. It not as bad as I thought :)
First it is a result of the Phoenix's air time Friday morning at the meet, and the hard landing.
Second as long as the center stringer did not take any damage it should be a relatively simple repair. The front engine mount is supported by a piece of plywood and looks like a 2x4 or 2x6 to raise the mounting point for the front engine mount. This is supported by the haul and center stringer.
So here is my idea for doing the repair.
Remove the jump seats. Build a structure to support the engine by the front engine hook. Once the engine is supported remove the front engine mount. Grind out all the fiberglass holding the engine support wood in place and remove. Check stringer for rot an damage. If OK soak stringer with acetone to remove any moisture. Reinforce with a layer of fiberglass. Build new support for engine better than the old one of course. Bed it into the haul structure with cabosil. Reinstall front engine mount on engine and lower into place.
Am I on the right track? If any one has any other ideas I am open to any suggestions.
Also just curious if any one would happen to have any left over cabosil and heavy woven mat laying around they would like to sell?
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You'll want to be careful about lifting and/or lowering the engine with the drive installed or else you'll stress the drive shaft coupler on the flywheel and the gimbal bearing. Remove the drive prior so this way when you're done with the front mount you can check and reset the engine alignment height as needed before reinstalling the drive.
When I reconstructed my front mount plank I used 2x6's and instead of using lag bolts on the engine mount I thru-bolted it with large fender washers and lock nuts on the underside. Here's some pics from my engine mount fabrication.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Fiberglassing%20the%20Floor/IMG_0556.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Fiberglassing%20the%20Floor/IMG_0557.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Fiberglassing%20the%20Floor/IMG_0562.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Bilge%20and%20Floor/IMG_0019.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Bilge%20and%20Floor/IMG_0020.jpg)
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Engine%20Installation/IMG_0146.jpg)
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I have lots of cab, left, yer welcome to some of it.
Im almost done with the gt
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Thanks for the info Rich.
Joe, I'll take some off your hands. Will send you a PM.
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Well, as you all know I need to do some repairs to the front motor mount on the Phoenix Rising. Got the engine and out drive removed today, and I have to say it wasn't as hard as i thought it would be. I spent most of the day getting my A-frame finished up. Had both the out drive and engine removed in about 2 hrs, but after getting a closer look at the lowest part of the transom I found a crack in the fiberglass covering it so I applied some pressure and water squeezed out. So I got the smallest pry bar I own out and broke some of the glass off and did a little prodding and it was solid. I am going to do some more digging into that when I decided to take a break from putting up aluminum fascia on my shop tomorrow. But I will certainly say this, I really need to do some power washing back there!
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/10031993-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/910E54B3-orig.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/A432D2D2-orig.jpg)
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That looks vaguely familiar. Good job!
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Beginings/IMG_0003-1.jpg)
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Rich, I was just thinking the same thing when I posted that picture. I was just looking through your stringer and transom rebuild on the national forum.
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Double checked the lower transom just now, and not good news...I was able to sink a flat screw driver a quarter inch into the transom and was able to remove material. So, while i was sitting there I decided to pry back the fiberglass covering the end of the center stringer, and of course its soft. >:(
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0916121350.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0916121350a.jpg)
At least I can say I got 2 summers use out of it before I had to gut the Phoenix and to do the stringers and transom. :)
Interior removal starts this week.
Oh BTW Rich, I found the cause of my trim limit sender not working, a broken wire. I will address that when I pull the gimbal housing.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0916121349.jpg)
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Pulled the fuel tank and I think I found the reason for the constant gas smell when I would uncover the boat. The whole front quarter of the tank is layered in duck tape. Its to dark for pictures so I will post some in the morning after I drain the tank.
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Yikes...I'm not the only one with fuel tank issues huh? We can have a pity party at the Iowa meet in June.
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That works for me. ;D hopefully I will know if it is able to be saved by noon tomorrow.
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Dont you love surprises? Now the real fun begins. Sounds like you know what you are doing.
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Got the tank drained today and the results look very promising. The duck tape actually looked like it was installed at the factory to protect the tank. Anyone have any ideas why? ???
Had some debris in the tank but nothing major and no surface rust on the inside. I think I will get some of that tank coating stuff just to ensure many years of use to come and give the exterior a fresh coat of paint.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0923121206c_zps7f918984.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0923121206b_zpscb3182b9.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0923121207_zpse2170423.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0923121206_zps2018b0a3.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0923121205c_zpse5dcd642.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0923121205_zps920a914a.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0923121219_zpse2374e8f.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0923121211a_zpse04c4d08.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0923121211b_zps0c221536.jpg)
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Gimbal housing removed today. I have discovered water soaked wood all the way up to the middle set of mounting holes. So the bottom third will be replaced. I also found why I had such large gaps in between the engine cover and the cap. The stern is slightly sprung so I will be pulling that back together with a ratchet strap and reattach it to the foam boxes.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1007121227a.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1007121154.jpg)
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Looks familiar. My transom was pretty much the same except had one bad rot spot behind the port-side stringer and was oil soaked across the bottom.
(http://i425.photobucket.com/albums/pp340/Rattan3973/V174%20Floor%20Construction/Transom%20Rebuild/IMG_0001-7.jpg)
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How do I remove the bilge drain sleeve?
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I used a hack saw blade with out the handle & GREAT CARE !
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You talking about the brass tube?
I just pounded it down with a screw driver and took it out with a pliers.
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Thanks for the ideas guys!
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A new tube is about $4.00 ... I grabbed a screwdriver and tapped it with a hammer ... I didn't do it trying to save the part - just destroyed it on it's way out.
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Where did you get the new tube?
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I got mine at Hannys, i think it was $5 somthing.
i guess they will loan out the tool, Tom Velure loaned me his.
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(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1007121154.jpg)
I need to see some more pictures of your fancy engine hoist!
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(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1007121154.jpg)
I need to see some more pictures of your fancy engine hoist!
At my house...that would be called the swingset!
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Awesome!
Nice heavy duty swing set. I am sure you built extra strong for this purpose huh Doran! Now I know how to trick the wife into getting what I want.
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That is pretty much what it is a big swing set frame! ;D
All it takes is 4 4x4s 10' long, 2 2x10s 10' long doubled up and some 2x4s just to add bracing.
And a $79 2 ton chain hoist from Menards. Oh and some Geometry. :P
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1009121110.jpg)
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I will get some more pictures when I go back to work and post them tonight.
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Nah, I just rented an engine hoist over a weekend for $47.00. Took the swingset down last fall b/c the only kids left using it, weren't mine! (Which meant that a particularly lazy parent thought we were accepting responsibility to watch them...um...no? Geesh!)
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couple more pics of the a-frame.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1009121151.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1009121150.jpg)
It isn't pretty, but it got the job done so far.
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I bet you could have some fun with that for Halloween too!! he he he.....
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I am thinking a couple dummies strung up sound good! Too bad it is such a pain to move, that would be fun!
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Finally got some moisture here in central Nebraska over night last night around one inch total. Every thing is sopping wet so I lined the fuel tank this morning. I did a lot of research on fuel tank lining kits and decided to use a product called Damon Red-Kote. It Claims to be Resistant to all fuel additives and will work with any ethanol blended fuels. Just in case I would accidentally fuel up with it at a fuel dock or those unlabeled pumps in states that don't require the label on the pumps. I also chose it for the convenience of it being locally available at my local O'Rielly's parts store 30 miles down the road.
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Damon Ind. web site ...
http://damonq.com/red-kote.html (http://damonq.com/red-kote.html)
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Removed the carpet today, boy was I glad that I used indoor/outdoor carpet tape as an adhesive instead of using glue. It made for easy removal and saved the carpet for reinstall in the spring.
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Picked up the 140 from Joe today. BTW it was great meeting you and Laurie! Also it was good to see Gregg and Josh this weekend!
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It was a "Mini Meet" Brandon !
... LOL
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Just scored a new steering wheel for Phoenix Rising.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/T2eC16NHJIkE9qU3jcrJBQ5bMmL8Q60_57.jpg)
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Cool...one of the new 'GT' series steering wheels with the weighted center cap!
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Vary cool
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Pretty COOL Brandon !
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Started pulling out the transom this morning cut it in half to remove the lower section and removed the drain plug sleeve so far. I did find where the water was wicking into the transom, it was around the drain plug sleeve. i lost a small chunk of gel when I removed the sleeve but I will address that before I go back together.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1124121153.jpg)
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Transom came out today! I was only going to replace the bottom half of the transom but, after removing the lower part I discovered that the top half was not adhered very well to the fiber glass and it did not require much effort to remove it.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1124121339.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1124121340.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1124121433.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1124121523.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1124121633.jpg)
As you can see the transom was soaked three quarters of the way up to the top. BTW that is the top half removed and laying in my yard.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1124121634.jpg)
transom completely removed. Hopefully tomorrow I will get the floor removed and all the wet frozen foam!
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BTW I love my sonic crafter by rockwell! The most versatile tool I have ever owned!
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My transom was only attached to fiberglass hull in center (as much as yours is/was) the outer edges were just tabbed to top and sides, the wood wasn't even attached to bottom of hull (as much as a half inch gap in places).
Will you grind away the resin plate behind wood ?
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I will probably grind the resin off to get to the fiberglass so I have a good surface to adhere too. I also had at least a quarter inch air gap on the bottom even had some ice attached to the wood when I pried it out. Mine was also tabbed in on the sides. I plan on bedding the new transom to the bottom of the hull to eliminate the air gap that water can get trapped in.
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BTW I love my sonic crafter by rockwell! The most versatile tool I have ever owned!
Those multi tools are awesome. You can use them for so many different things. I use them puling windows out of derby cars. You are making great progress. That type of engine cover must make it a lot easier to pull the transom out. Nice work!
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That type of engine cover must make it a lot easier to pull the transom out. Nice work!
I have complete access to the top of the transom with out having to split the hull.
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2/3 of the floor is out stringers are going to get replaced. The bottom half of the center stringer is soaked and mushy! Had a lot of soaked foam, some blocks seemed like they weighed at least 5 to 10 lbs. I currently have 3 garbage barrels full of foam one includes the remnants of the lower part of the transom.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1125121406.jpg)
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Nice work Brandon!
Do you have access to a heated workspace for the winter?
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Nice work Brandon!
Do you have access to a heated workspace for the winter?
Regrettably, no. >:(
As long as it is at least 40 to 50 degrees out on the weekends I will be tearing down, and getting the new stringers and transom fitted. I will at least be able to have everything ready to go in as soon as it warms up enough. The shop I have here at home is only the size of a single stall garage that currently has all my tools, and all the engines and drive parts for Phoenix Rising stored in it. At least I can do the fabing, fitting, and sealing of the transom and stringers over the cold winter months. ;D
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Been collecting parts for Phoenix Rising since the weather has gotten too cold to work on her.
Purchased a used tilt helm and replacement rack for around $100 shipped.
Purchased a NOS insturnment panel harness off ebay for $45
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercruiser-HARNESS-Merc-Mariner-84-74028-25-a25-/310410480229?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4116790075759568544%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D310410480229%26 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercruiser-HARNESS-Merc-Mariner-84-74028-25-a25-/310410480229?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D4116790075759568544%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D310410480229%26)
Then today I found on Fergson Poole a NOS Mercruiser 140 engine harness.
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Been collecting parts for Phoenix Rising since the weather has gotten too cold to work on her. ...........
Then today I found on Fergson Poole a NOS Mercruiser 140 engine harness.
Joe (Poole, Jr.) is an amazing resource and just darn "good people" IMO. If he doesn't have what you need, he WILL find it for you!
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Sent the tank off to Dripeze in knoxville, ia to have it lined and sealed. Got it back today. I will say they do nice work, and I can't complain about the price 266.99 including shipping.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/4C2EB35B-orig.jpg)
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Did a little work on the Mercruiser 140 I picked up from Joe, and all I have to say is Josh the carb filter in that 140 looks really close to what you showed me and Gregg when we stopped by the weekend we picked up the 140.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0127132008.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0127132009.jpg)
After I found it I decided to remove the one from the 120 and it is clean as clean can be. So I installed it on the 140 along with the hard fuel line from the 120.
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Got some parts ordered for a tune up on the 140 today. Pertronix Ignitor and flame thrower coil.
Had one heck of a time trying to find a new rotor and cap for the prestolite distributor. None of my local Mercruiser dealers even had a clue only showed the delco distributor, and could not find it on line. So I gave Hanny's Marine a call and they had a tune up kit on hand. Forgot to mention the CGOA discount, but oh well, at least I will have the parts I need!
I can say this, all my parts business will be going to Hanny's from now on!
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Did a little work on the Mercruiser 140 I picked up from Joe, and all I have to say is Josh the carb filter in that 140 looks really close to what you showed me and Gregg when we stopped by the weekend we picked up the 140.
...
After I found it I decided to remove the one from the 120 and it is clean as clean can be. So I installed it on the 140 along with the hard fuel line from the 120.
Yep! That looks about right! Great deal on the tank too! I'll probably be looking at that process once it gets warm enough here too!
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Got some parts ordered for a tune up on the 140 today. Pertronix Ignitor and flame thrower coil.
Careful with that Pertonix. I had really bad luck with mine. I got the same coil too. I couldn't get it to work correctly and ended up putting the old reliable points back in. If you have a resistor wire I believe you need to bypass it as that coil uses 12V directly.
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I have had really good luck with the ignitor, but have never had a flame thrower coil. The 120 that was in Phoenix Rising has one and did improve the starting issues I had with it.
But everyone can have different results. I have seen them fail. Had to replace one on a forklift at work.
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I have the Pertronix sensor (or a facsimile of it) on my 3.7L and have had no problems with it. The only thing I found that is required is you need to connect the red power wire to the ignition circuit before the resistance wire or ballast because there is more power there, or else the ignition could cut out if/when you use the trim.
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Rich,
I'm thinking of installing the Pertronix 1146A into the 140 I'm installing in the 174.
Can I use the stock coil? Do I leave the ballast resistor hooked up?
** Sorry about hy-jacking the thread *** :-[
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Yes, you can use the stock coil so you will have to leave the ballast resistor hooked up. But when you connect the Pertronix don't connect the red positive wire to the positive terminal of the coil, you need to connect it to the front side of the ballast resistor so it operates at full voltage and not the reduced voltage on the back side of the ballast. The black wire still connects to the negative terminal of the coil just as the points would have. You will also have to recheck/reset your ignition timing using a timing light.
I'm still using a stock coil and resistance wire on my engine.
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Rich,
I'm thinking of installing the Pertronix 1146A into the 140 I'm installing in the 174.
Can I use the stock coil? Do I leave the ballast resistor hooked up?
** Sorry about hy-jacking the thread *** :-[
No problem Jim. The only reason I purchased the flame thrower coil is because the coil on the 140 is in really rough shape.
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Finished the tune up work on the mercruiser 140 tonight. On that thought any one ever use the AC delco marine spark plugs? I just put a set in the 140 an they are a 3rd the price of ngk.
OK back on track, Joe be glad you never tried to bring the engine up to operating temp, you never would have made it, the thermostat was missing. I have an odd feeling about the thermostat not being installed! I have seen where people have removed them to reduce the cooling system pressure to stop an internal engine leak or to help with an over heating issue. I guess I will pull the water pump this weekend and see what kind of shape it is in.
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Pertronix is just a brand isnt it? Mine is a Unilite. Probably pretty much the same?
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On that thought any one ever use the AC delco marine spark plugs?
AC Delco plugs are the required brand for Mercruiser, either AC MR43T or MR43LTS. Champion equivalents are RV8C & RS12YC respectively. If you have the data sticker on the engine's rocker cover the specified plug should be listed on it.
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Pertronix is just a brand isnt it? Mine is a Unilite. Probably pretty much the same?
Yep, there are multiple companies that make an ignitor type system, but Pertronix is the one and only orginal. Every company that makes them now is based off the orginal patton for pertronix.
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On that thought any one ever use the AC delco marine spark plugs?
AC Delco plugs are the required brand for Mercruiser, either AC MR43T or MR43LTS. Champion equivalents are RV8C & RS12YC respectively. If you have the data sticker on the engine's rocker cover the specified plug should be listed on it.
You know, now that I think about it, it does say it on the engine data sticker.
May be I should learn to read labels a little bit closer :P
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just finished installing the new harness for the mercruiser 140. Did some ohming on the ignition wires and did not see any variation in my ohm meter read out. I tested from the starter solenoid to the coil and from the main harness plug to the coil and had nothing that would indicate there is a resistance wire built into the harness.
My question is did I do my testing correct by just testing with my ohm meter or should I apply 12 volts to the circuit and see if there is a voltage drop?
One more question, if I would just run a bypass wire from the starter solenoid to the coil and do the same from the key switch to the coil to get a constant 12 volt source for my pertronix ignitor and coil would that cause any havoc with my ignition system? Especially if I leave the factory harness connections in place?
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If you don't have an actual ballast resistor then it could be in the form of a resistance wire and is usually a different shade of purple from the rest and I think may have a tungston core, we'll still call it a ballast resistor. If you have an electric choke pull-off on the carburetor then you most likely have a resistance wire and it connects between the choke heater and the ingition coil. The purple wire going from the starter solenoid to the coil is a bypass for the ballast resistor. It energizes the coil with full power only when you're cranking the engine. The resistance of the ballast is going to be small, only a few ohms so unless you're on the lowest scale of the meter you might not notice a reading. Where it matters is it acts as a load for the ignition coil to absorb excess voltage. Your ballast should have one wire on one side, this comes from the key and should be 12 volts and should also be a decent place to connect your Pertonix. The other side of the ballast should have two wires, one goes directly to the coil and the other goes to the starter solenoid as the bypass. It is possible that the bypass wire might be connected at the coil instead of the ballast.
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Ok, that makes since, I just have a cheap ohm meter so that is why I did not see any changes then. So with the instructions for the flame thrower coil stating to remove the resistor if I purchased a 3 ohm coil I should run a solid 12 volt source from the starter solenoid and one from the key switch.
Thanks for the info Rich!
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The wire from the starter solenoid should already be present, you would just have to disconnect the resistance wire and substitute a normal wire in its place.
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You know as I said before, maybe I should learn to read things a little more. Found the Resistance wire and cut it from the connection to the positive side of the coil. BTW, it was labeled right at the connection. :P
Much thanks again for the help Rich!
Have a couple of senders I want to replace yet, but I just thought I would share the finished rewire job on the Mercruiser 140.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/9A8B74CD-orig_zps4f9de08e.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/5735D225-orig_zpsa4de6a15.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/A0C68351-orig_zps00691e6c.jpg)
One thing comes to mind when I look at these pictures. Does anyone have a good idea for routing and securing the vent line from the carburetor to the fuel pump??
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Looks good! For routing the breather hose you can either have it follow the canyon to the front of the rocker cover then down the side of the block between the water circulation hose and distributor - or - tie it along the hard fuel line.
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Much cleaner!
Thank you again Rich!
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/CFB84138-orig_zps2e9fcbe7.jpg)
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That is pretty much what it is a big swing set frame! ;D
All it takes is 4 4x4s 10' long, 2 2x10s 10' long doubled up and some 2x4s just to add bracing.
And a $79 2 ton chain hoist from Menards. Oh and some Geometry. :P
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/1009121110.jpg)
Hey Brandon
You have any dimensions on that engine hoist you built? I'm thinking about making one. I'll need to pull my 350 at some point to go thru the jet and it would also work well for outboards.
Thanks
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You know as I said before, maybe I should learn to read things a little more. Found the Resistance wire and cut it from the connection to the positive side of the coil. BTW, it was labeled right at the connection. :P
Much thanks again for the help Rich!
Have a couple of senders I want to replace yet, but I just thought I would share the finished rewire job on the Mercruiser 140.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/9A8B74CD-orig_zps4f9de08e.jpg)
Looks pretty clean. Did your fuel pump originally have that vent line? Mine did not and it looked similar with the filter canister on the bottom. Just curious if it had been there. Since I was having my carb rebuilt, I asked the guy at The Carb Shop and he first showed me where to attach it to the carb, then just went ahead and drilled it out for me and stuck in a barb and told me to loctite it once I got it pointing in the correct direction I wanted. The reason I ask is because if its not plumbed to the correct location on the carb, it wont flood the engine if the fuel pump diaphragm ruptures and the motor will just keep running and defeat its purpose.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/5735D225-orig_zpsa4de6a15.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/A0C68351-orig_zps00691e6c.jpg)
One thing comes to mind when I look at these pictures. Does anyone have a good idea for routing and securing the vent line from the carburetor to the fuel pump??
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Looking good Brandon...too bad about the 10" of snow, we only got 6" in Lincoln, but I still played all night in a Bobcat...Yea looks like more on Tuesday...
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Thanks Joe, you still up for prop testing at branched oak this spring?
Ross, I will get the measurements for you tomorrow on the A-frame.
Also on the vent question on my 140 vent line, it was that way when I purchased it used. My 120 that was in Phoenix Rising that the 140 is replacing does not have one.
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My old 120 didn't have the fuel pump breather line either. That was something they started adding later in the 70's I think.
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Thanks Joe, you still up for prop testing at branched oak this spring?
Ross, I will get the measurements for you tomorrow on the A-frame.
Also on the vent question on my 140 vent line, it was that way when I purchased it used. My 120 that was in Phoenix Rising that the 140 is replacing does not have one.
Thanks
No hurry. Maybe some more pics so I can see how you attached things would help more then dimensions since I'd likely need to alter it some anyways. I need about 10 feet in height. Then it wont fit in my shop. I'd like go figure out a way to adjust the height so I could use it inside for outboards, lawnmowers etc. The steel ones are too much money for me to swallow on something that wouldn't get used more. If you can email/PM me uncompressed pics, I would appreciate it. Like I said, no hurry. This isn't something I'll be doing in the next week.
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No problem, I will get pics today. Btw it is around 10ft already. I will also include my solution for lifting engines in my shop in the pictures.
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Ross , if you want to hang my electric which from it you are welcome to it. Brandon sure has a nice set up!
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Ross , if you want to hang my electric which from it you are welcome to it. Brandon sure has a nice set up!
Thanks for the complement Jason, but it would be a lot nicer if it was all in doors.
Got the compression test done on the mercruiser 140 today listed from front of the engine to the back.
135-125-115-125
Also I hooked up a standard gauge to check the oil pressure during cranking
Got 40psi every time.
So what do you guys think of the results?
I think the 115 is a little low on the third cylinder but it should be within spec.
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My original 120 was giving me a consistent 140psi on all cylinders and my 3.7 liter engine is about 145psi on all 4. I've seen the 3.7 engines up as high as 160 per cylinder. Your readings seem a little low to me, especially on #3. If you can get them closer to 140 you'll be doing great but it should run ok the way it is, it probably won't have all the grunt it's supposed to have. Perhaps at the very least it will need a head gasket or have the valves refreshed at a machine shop. At most you're probably looking at rings and a honing in the future.
The oil pressure seems fine.
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I learned so many gauges read differently. Would be worth trying out a few different gauges. The 115 is a little low compared to the others maybe once you warm it up, run it a while, then test it, the numbers may look a little better. What's your old 120 getting for numbers?
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My old 120 at the time when I discontinued its use was 140 per cylinder.
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Ross , if you want to hang my electric which from it you are welcome to it. Brandon sure has a nice set up!
No plans for pulling anything at this time but I'll keep your offer in mind.
Thanks
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Yes on the prop testing, hopefully we will be able to unload at Branch Oak considering the water levels.
I have been looking for a speed prop, we do alot of skiing so I've been running at 19", however I would like to test a 22" for speed....
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My original 120 was giving me a consistent 140psi on all cylinders and my 3.7 liter engine is about 145psi on all 4. I've seen the 3.7 engines up as high as 160 per cylinder. Your readings seem a little low to me, especially on #3. If you can get them closer to 140 you'll be doing great but it should run ok the way it is, it probably won't have all the grunt it's supposed to have. Perhaps at the very least it will need a head gasket or have the valves refreshed at a machine shop. At most you're probably looking at rings and a honing in the future.
The oil pressure seems fine.
When I got the 140 I was planing on pulling the head and having it gone through, but the machine shop I use is at least 3 to 4 months out. So I decided to run it for a year before I do anything else to it.
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I learned so many gauges read differently. Would be worth trying out a few different gauges. The 115 is a little low compared to the others maybe once you warm it up, run it a while, then test it, the numbers may look a little better. What's your old 120 getting for numbers?
I have never tested the 120, I will probably do that just to compare. From what I read this morning I really did not do an accurate compression test on the 140. the engine should be tested after bring it up to operating temp so the rings are seated properly. I guess if we get another warm day I will get the hose out and hook it up to the water pickup up hose and fire her up, then test it again.
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NAH, just throw the 140 in the boat and take it to the lake. If she runs good then no worries!
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after i changed the oil, i ran it for about 15 or 20 minutes with a hose connected directly to the inlet. though i did not run it at sustained high rpm'm it did seem to run vary well, sounded nice.
never did get that hot, i thought maybe the temp gauge or sender was jacked, but now we know why.
also restricted the outlet as to increase the pressure and there was no water in the oil.
that is really all i kno, but the guy that i got it from said he was unloading it cuz it had a trim problem.
my 2 cents...
i agree "just run it"
not that you would do this, but
in my life i have wasted many opportunity's cuz i got all excited and tore things apart so it could be "perfect".
and then never got around to getting it done.
several years ago when it came around to putting the mustang motor in my ranger, i got the motor, trans, donor car...
and just put the stuff in, it was great drove it for seven years, loads of fun.
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I'm with Jason.
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and it only takes 30 min to pull the engine back out if you need to.
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Started cleaning up the gimbal housing yesterday. Cut the wires back for the trim sender till I found fairly descent wire. My cheap ohm meter does not have enough power to go through the sender. I would like to know if the trim sender is working, because i would like to remove my trim gauge. So can I test it by running 12 volts through the sender?
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Don't run 12 volts through the sender, you'll burn it up, all it is is a variable resistor. If the sender is good you should see resistance readings I think between 30 and 240 ohms, pretty much the same as for a fuel gauge sender.
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OK then, time to fine a new ohm meter this afternoon then.
Thanks rich!
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I would think any ohmmeter should be able to read that
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my ohm meter is a cheap little non digital, works good for some things like checking for broken wires and such. But when it comes to things like testing fuel senders and other through put switches it just does not perform well.
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for most troubleshooting we should all have a digital meter of some sort, but actually an analog meter is the thing to use to test a potentiometer (fuel sender, trim sender, TPS and so on).
if you set it to the range higher than the max resistance of the device, as you vary the sensor you can see the needle on the meter sweep smoothly across the range if the sensor is good, if the sensor is bad or dirty the needle will jump. IMHO its easier to see than on a digital meter.
i have 1 old school Simpson 260 that i use for checking things like that, though it looks out of place sitting next to the newer test equipment we use today.
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Got the new digital meter and tested again, same result.
Looks like I am going to have to take the gimbal housing apart to change out the wires and check the sender directly.
It doesn't look all that hard, but getting the bellows off with out damaging them worries me a little.
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are there only 2 wires going to the gimble ?
if so they are for a limit sw
i think the trim sensor is in the engine compartment, i added an arrow on the pix
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looks like it is just a switch that is contacted. So, now I need to find a switch that will work in its place. I presume it is an open switch until it is depressed. Then the trailer switch has to be depressed to continue to the trailering position.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0303131530_zps664fff5f.jpg)
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A trim limit switch is usually closed and making connection until the drive is raised to the limit point at which time the switch opens disconnecting the up trim function. The trailer button would then take the place of the limit switch to allow the drive to be raised fully. That's how the later versions are designed.
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i just bypassed that switch in my boat. Then I only have one toggle switch to raise and lower the outdrive. Yea, it won't stop going up when trimming but you'll figure it out when the prop starts grabbing air.
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i just bypassed that switch in my boat. Then I only have one toggle switch to raise and lower the outdrive. Yea, it won't stop going up when trimming but you'll figure it out when the prop starts grabbing air.
Me too.
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Same on mine as well!
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Same here, bypassed the trim limit and just use the up trim button to raise the drive full range.
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After checking it, the switch is shot. So it will be bypassed.and the wires will be cut flush with the housing, and the hole will be sealed.
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I replaced mine (when the motor was all apart) It's a cheap little micro switch, but when I got it tore apart I found out it is pushed by s small pin that was gummed up. I cleaned everything up and replaced the switch anyway. my up-down switch on the council only operates the trim. To tilt I have a switch on the splash well. I don't want to take a chance on getting the water pump sucking air.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/P1020276Large.jpg)
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With your set up Jerry, that makes seance.
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Decided this weekend not to build a cradle for Phoenix rising. We are going to add supports to the trailer and utilize its steel frame to keep her in the proper shape.
The plan is to add ten foot 2x6s above and below the roller bunks on the trailer supported 2x4 H frames clamped to the existing cross braces on the trailer.
The hull should be free floating and keep its structure once the winch strap tension is released.
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Decided this weekend not to build a cradle for Phoenix rising. We are going to add supports to the trailer and utilize its steel frame to keep her in the proper shape.
The plan is to add ten foot 2x6s above and below the roller bunks on the trailer supported 2x4 H frames clamped to the existing cross braces on the trailer.
The hull should be free floating and keep its structure once the winch strap tension is released.
Sorry ignore this last post, I was jumping the gun.
Nice day today here in central Nebraska, so I decided to check how the stringers have held up over the winter completely exposed with out the wet foam around them. Still have some damp spots where the wood is exposed, but they are solid(i will take acetone to the wet areas to try to draw out the moisture) . So......change in plans.
Going to get the transom built, remove the rest of the floor and put new floor in. Going to change one thing in the original design of the stringers. The center stringer is made up of 2 pieces of wood, so to straighten it up and reinforce the structure it self I am going to add a bulkhead to the center of the passenger compartment area.
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Two nice days in a row here in Nebraska, but it sounds like we are going to pay for it the rest of the week.
So with the nice weather I got the template made for the transom, its rough, but its a good base to start with. Still need to do some grinding where the old transom met the hull and repair the freeze cracks and missing chunks in the layer of resin that attached the wood to the transom it self so I can get a good test fit of the wood when I get it done. Hope to get the plywood Saturday, will probably be getting it mostly for free since I have rebate checks for Menards. ;D
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Shoot ... weather guys on the radio are telling us to wait until mid May before we see temperatures at what they were this time last year. No fun working on a boat in the cold...
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Shoot ... weather guys on the radio are telling us to wait until mid May before we see temperatures at what they were this time last year. No fun working on a boat in the cold...
Yep I know, they are predicting snow here from tonight through Sunday so far. As long as it is 40° or above out I will be out side working on Phoenix Rising. Other wise I will be in my heated shop working on getting stuff ready to hit it hard when the temperatures are where I can work outside again.
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Picked up my 3/4" oak plywood Friday night, but I am unable to start cutting the transom because it is snowing here and I don't want it wet. So, until it stops snowing its not coming out of the Yukon. Instead I striped the gaskets off of the gimbal housing. Once I got the cork gasket between the hull and the housing completely removed, I discovered I might have been getting a little water intrusion from the bottom part of the housing. There is a lot of corrosion on the lowest part of the gasket flange and around the bottom pivot pin and the plate where trim hoses hook up.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/24/vyjata6y.jpg)
Have a couple questions yet.
Should I repaint the gasket surfaces or leave them bare metal?
And will the trim hose plate from an alpha gimbal housing that you can install adenoid on fit on my housing.
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I would clean up the corrosion as much as possible with a wire brush, wheel, and/or sandpaper. Then layer on some MarineTex or JB Weld and resand the area smooth, then put a coat of paint on it. The uneven surfaces may continue to leak until they are are resurfaced. Not sure if the Alpha trim hose junction block will interchange but it's worth a shot to try. Just check to see if the bolt pattern is the same.
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Thanks Rich, it ended up fairly smooth but I will double check it more tomorrow.
One question though, looking for the transom seal and finding two options with reference to different gimbal housing part numbers. Can you shed any light on where I might find the part number cast into the housing?
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I thought there were only two types of gasket - the flat gasket used up to 1973 and the O-ring gasket used from 1974 to present. See the link below, I think the one you need is the first item on the page. The second and third items are for 1974 to present pre-Alpha, Alpha One and Alpha Gen 2. Those are seated and glued into a channel around the edge of the transom shield which your assembly does not have.
http://www.psepmarineparts.biz/store/mercruiser_transom_gaskets_and_seals.htm (http://www.psepmarineparts.biz/store/mercruiser_transom_gaskets_and_seals.htm)
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Just a piece of advice (that I think came from you Rich)...only buy the Mercruiser genuine item. I bought a GLM brand one that I refused to use as it wasn't uniform in shape and was also not as large in diameter as the OEM part.
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That sounds like what you had was the later O-ring type gasket, Dor. I've seen the same thing in Sierra brand too. You can rarely go wrong with OEM parts.
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Could've been Rich, but it was the same part number, total length, etc...just a cheap piece of crap version I think. :D
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I'm confused about something - If your Starflite is a '75 then it's supposed to have the later O-ring type Gasket., second item on the page from the link I listed earlier. But the transom assembly you pictured is the older style pre-'74 unit. What's the deal? ???
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Well if you go by the hull # the last two digits are 74 but then it is stamped next to it 1975 model. I think Phoenix Rising is either an early production model or was a prototype for boat shows. And that would explain all the snaps for the full camper top, the moring cover and the snaps under the rub rail for a towing cover.
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Boy I wish there is a way you could track an old boats history thinking about what I just posted makes me wonder.
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Managed to get the first layer for the new transom cut today. Had a fairly good pattern from my foam template, but to get the curve at the bottom of the hull correct I had to do a pencil shaving trace of the curve and then cut it out and trace it to my plywood to get the correct curve. It came out really well in my opinion, I took the scrap piece from the bottom and matched it up to the bottom of the hull and its a perfect match to the hull.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0324131432a_zpsbf9c1be6.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0324131432_zpsa9435397.jpg)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0324131458_zpsbd9f2789.jpg)
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Sad thing is I ran out of propane for my heater right as I started the first cut on the transom. :'(
So I won't be able to get back to anything until at least Wednesday when it is supposed to start warming up here again. Could be in the 60s by the weekend! :)
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Beautiful day here in Nebraska reached 65° so I got to test fit my first cut. And I am happy with the fit. Had to cut some of the tabbing for the old transom to get the new piece to fit, it is about a quarter to half inch wider than the factory so the whole surface area of the fiberglass is covered.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/29/y6evejyn.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/29/bazynuty.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/03/29/rajynyhe.jpg)
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Talked to express composites today (Jim), I will have to say they have a lot of knowledge. I really need to come up and spend an afternoon with them before taking on the CVZ 18 this summer. So here is the list I have come up with to order tomorrow.
Gallon Tub of Cabosil
Gallon Tub of 1/4" chopped strand
20 yards of 10" double bias
25 16 oz plastic mixing cups
Anyone else have any suggestions on what I should order to get this transom, and front engine mount done?
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Jim's an old boat guy. He knows his stuff. I like bi-ax/W mat It goes on easy, but not on stringers. workin with chopped is a pain in the azz. Ask him.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/632.jpg)
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Order placed with express composites, can't wait for it to arrive tomorrow. Gotta love Speedee Delivery.
On to the work tonight. Cleaned up the resin layer on the transom. Was I ever so happy that I am able to grind in the great outdoors. I was still white as a ghost. I got all of the loose material removed and preped for patching. I am thinking of using either a thickened resin or the peanut butter mixture. Any thoughts?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/03/batyba5y.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/03/de2yse8a.jpg)
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Bondo
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Bondo
Never thought of that. Might have to go pickup some tomorrow.
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are you leaving that grey filler in there ?
i ground it all off mine, hard as heck :-/
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are you leaving that grey filler in there ?
i ground it all off mine, hard as heck :-/
Yep, I think I am going to leave it. My goal for tonight was to grind it out until I discovered how hard it is. So I cleaned it up so I can put a new layer of fiberglass over it after I fill in the missing pieces and cracks.
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I used Bondo on mine to get it smoothed out .. You can mix the bondo with the fiberglass resin and get something that spreads a little easier
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I used Bondo on mine to get it smoothed out .. You can mix the bondo with the fiberglass resin and get something that spreads a little easier
Now you tell me, oh well. Already have the major areas filled, sanded, and ready for a second coat.
Got to laminate my two transom halves together this evening, and boy did I learn a valuable lesson. Make sure you mark the the correct side to laminate to! Unfortunately , I did not do this. So, now I will have to cut it all over again. Its a good thing I decided to leave a lot of extra material on the top and make it slightly over sized, because I knew I would screw up some how.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/05/uheretym.jpg)
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For some reason that pic reminds of the time my Mom stopped by & drove over the 153 stringer I had curing in the driveway ...?
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GOOD NEWS, my screw up might not be as bad as I thought. Just went out to look it over. Every thing that is off is all equal in measurement. So once it is good and cured should be just a matter of some trimming and belt sanding and hopefully I will have a good transom to clamp in.
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We all have our fingers crossed for ya !
Screw ups happen ...
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Well as my luck has gone with Phoenix Rising my screw up laminating turned out really well. Got the final fit done on the wood for the transom. And a coat of resin on the front and sides of the board. If mother nature allows, it will be clamped in tomorrow afternoon.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/07/y6ybuta6.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/07/sesa4a9u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/07/a5uzatyh.jpg)
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Looks like it fits quite nicely, Brandon!
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Got the transom laminated in this morning, the hull is now flat no more waves. I made a couple 2x2s to use as clamps to wedge in place to put pressure on the lowest part of the transom. Then I used firscoboaters 2x4 clamping method to apply pressure to the mid section. Then I used 90% of my clamps to secure the top.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/08/surujezu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/08/pu3udagy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/08/ytazerat.jpg)
Oh ya, and a big thanks to my helpers this morning. My wife and my father Reg, the were essential in the final steps.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/08/vabedazu.jpg)
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Looks great, nice solid clamping method. Keep it up!
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Yea! Looks really good and solid. You'll be back on the water in no time now!
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Yea for warm weather
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Thanks guys, I was happy it only took 3 hours to get it in today. Thankfully the rain held off until I was done. We got the first decient amount of rain here in awhile, and more to come this week.
Now on to redesigning the foam boxes for a dual battery setup this week.
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Yes, looks really good. Now what did you do between the new transom plywood and outer glass? Did you coat the transom with resin or...?
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Between the wood and glass, I coated each half with resin and then put a layer of fiber glass cloth on each half and then I dropped in the wood and then compressed them together.
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YA !
Keep up the good work Brandon !
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Got a thunder ice storm here in central Nebraska today, so no boat work is going on until the weekend when it will be 50° again. But I did get $200.00 worth of parts ordered so parts will be on hand to finish putting it together when the time is right.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/10/y5u7e4ys.jpg)
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Fawkes has no idea what its like to be under a cover until now!
BTW...haven't made contact with the donor boat guy. I've called, but no contact yet. I'll keep ya posted.
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Fawkes has no idea what its like to be under a cover until now!
BTW...haven't made contact with the donor boat guy. I've called, but no contact yet. I'll keep ya posted.
Yep Fawkes is nice and toasty for the first time in a long time!
Hey on the donor boat guy, if you don't make contact its not a problem, I'd say one more try and then forget about it. There will always be another, may be one with an alpha drive like I really want. ;D
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Completely removed the flotation boxes and what was left of the floor today. Started pouring the flotation foam an got the front done but, ran out guess I will have to order another two gallon kit on Monday. Oh, also found something interesting up in the bow. I found a ventilation tube. Don't know how much good it is doing because it is rather small.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/14/yvavu6ys.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/14/e9e7upe5.jpg)
Sorry, I forgot to take a picture with the partial foam job will get one tomorrow.
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Got the front and rear floor traced and ready to cut this evening. It was a little to windy to do much in the boat it self so going to cut and test fit tomorrow.
One question, what do you guys suggest for adhearing the floor to the stringers? I am thinking of using Loctite's PL construction adhesive. I really don't want to use screws because they will rust away just like the staples that held down the original floor.
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I used 5200 and stainless steel screws.
I did it a long time ago, there might be better choices now.
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Brandon, you can get stainless screws at any building materials store in their decking supplies. I used 1-3/4" square drive stainless screws. I think a 1 lb box was something like $12 or $13.
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Screw them down with s/s screws.
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I use the loc-tite and 2" coarse thread dry wall screws, quick, don't require pre-drilling, and they have a stronger hold than most other screws because of the coarse thread, I don't worry about them rusting because I seal the stringers, floor panels, and everything else I can to keep moisture from ever getting under the floor, over-laying the floor with 24oz woven roven cloth.
In my opinion, if you get enough mosture under there to rust a screw, you already have bigger problems than a rusted screw.
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Thanks for the info guys, I think I will go with Red's since I already have the Loc-tite and the 2" drywall screws.
Finished the foam today, got it all cut flush with the top of the stringers. It started trying to rain here about 20 minutes ago so I don't know if I will get the chance today to get the front and rear sections of the floor cut and fitted yet.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0421131729_zps4519f99c.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0421131729_zps4519f99c.jpg.html)
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Getting closer!
Front and rear sections of the floor are fitted and the bottoms are coated with resin . Gonna let them cure till tomorrow evening. Then its glue and screw time. Then measure, cut, and fit the center section.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Snapbucket/2b885f27-fff6-49db-8ccf-a12a4f852856_zpsdc1d2b35.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Snapbucket/2b885f27-fff6-49db-8ccf-a12a4f852856_zpsdc1d2b35.jpg.html)
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Get after it Brandon. Supposed to be a killer weekend, so hopefully you'll be a lot closer to done on Monday!
Only 6 weeks!
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Get after it Brandon. Supposed to be a killer weekend, so hopefully you'll be a lot closer to done on Monday!
Only 6 weeks!
My goal is to have the gimbal housing in by the end of the weekend.
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The front and rear sections of the floor are in. Sorry no pictures was too dark when I got done. So dark in fact I was working by halogen work lights.
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Floor is completely installed, less fiberglass and putting putty on the edges. One question on that, do I need to put the fiber glass down on first, or do I put the resin putty on the edges and seams first?
I also removed the instrument panel and installed the new harness for the engine.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/29/azetyjet.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/29/pydu8uqu.jpg)
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Looking good, Brandon.
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Looks like you're making progress Brandon!
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One question on that, do I need to put the fiber glass down on first, or do I put the resin putty on the edges and seams first?
Definitely want to fill/seal the seams and edges with PB before laying the glass down Brandon. (Want it to lay as flat as possible.) I used a layer of 1708 biaxial tape on the edges and seams before laying the final layers (2) of csm over the top, adds strength to the "joint".
Back at the bilge hole, you may want to sand the edges a little (round them over some) to allow the glass to roll over and down onto the sides. Sharp edges are tougher to glass down without air bubbles. Just a thought.
Isn't it amazing how good it makes you feel to have a floor again!? ;D
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Isn't it amazing how good it makes you feel to have a floor again!? ;D
Yes it does feel good to have a floor Mark. BTW thanks for the info.
Seam and edges are all Peanut Buttered. I will be following Mark's advice on the 1708 for the seams and edges and then will be laying the CSM. That will all probably all take place on Thursday and Friday since we are going to be getting some rain Tuesday night which will turn to snow Wednesday afternoon. Going to try to get the front engine mount board and the plywood that is in the bilge well out tomorrow evening and get the new front engine mount board in.
I did get one more thing accomplished this evening, I got the bilge vents painted to match the orange on the hull like they originally were.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0429132055_zpsce300c16.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0429132055_zpsce300c16.jpg.html)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0429132057_zpsc1a2f4e0.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0429132057_zpsc1a2f4e0.jpg.html)
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Looks like steady progress, Brandon. Keep up the good work.
I used the 1708 strips to tab in the floor and over the joint ... I have woven that's going down on the floor. Last year I simply rolled resin and dropped a cheap carpet down.
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Looks like steady progress, Brandon. Keep up the good work.
I used the 1708 strips to tab in the floor and over the joint ... I have woven that's going down on the floor. Last year I simply rolled resin and dropped a cheap carpet down.
Thanks Dan. You know the ol' saying slow and steady wins the race. Heck cheap carpet isn't bad, I put cheap indoor/outdoor carpet from Menards in Phoenix Rising. As long as you like it and it looks nice to you who cares.
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I put cheap indoor/outdoor carpet from Menards in Phoenix Rising. As long as you like it and it looks nice to you who cares.
Phoenix Rising's interior looks awesome too!
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I put cheap indoor/outdoor carpet from Menards in Phoenix Rising. As long as you like it and it looks nice to you who cares.
Phoenix Rising's interior looks awesome too!
Thanks Josh! But...
It doesn't at the moment :D
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Meant the carpet and chairs together!
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I see ... thanks!
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Last of the demo in the hull tonight. The original front engine mount board was completely dry rotted and crumbling. If it wasn't for the small sheet of plywood under it the engine would have surely been sitting in the bottom of the hull. Still have a little cleaning to do removing some grease but it is clean enough for now.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0430131919_zpsc4961670.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0430131919_zpsc4961670.jpg.html)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0430131920_zpsd49a6456.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0430131920_zpsd49a6456.jpg.html)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0430131920a_zps4cbbc03a.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0430131920a_zps4cbbc03a.jpg.html)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0430131951_zpsa03718ba.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0430131951_zpsa03718ba.jpg.html)
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That is some seriously rotted wood! Good thing you tore into it when you did.
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That is some seriously rotted wood! Good thing you tore into it when you did.
Well, that was the repair I was going to do originally, after finding an engine mount bolt pushed up out of the floor after our "dukes of hazzard jump" (as Terry Curran put it) on out second day at Red Wing.
When the engine was pulled that is when I discovered the transom was rotten and so the fun began.
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" I discovered the transom was rotten and so the fun began. "
Lot of that going around Brandon !
... LOL
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Got a little further tonight. But had to take care of a major problem, water some how got under the top and mooring cover and on to the exposed wood floor. It did not take all that much to get it dried up, Just acetone and four halogen work lamps. Ended up having the grain raise up a little but that can be dealt with.
Other wise, I got the new front engine mount fitted and laminating in the shop for the night.
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Yuck! Sounds like you caught it in time! I'll keep my fingers crossed for ya!
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Brandon ...
I think your CVZ just joined the forum ...
Or is it Amber ?
New member ...Fawkes
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Brandon ...
I think your CVZ just joined the forum ...
Or is it Amber ?
New member ...Fawkes
I figured that was Amber as well...
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OK ...
Yep ...
The CVZ would be a 33 year old female.
New member is listed as 30 year old female ...
... LOL
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Yep it is Amber.
she just does not have the courage to introduce her self even though she knows all of you. I am going to show her how to lay fiberglass tonight so I can get the front engine mount installed.
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I have so much trouble working with Laurie...
i just cant stay focused on the task at hand ;D
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Carol doesn't know any thing about boats ...
She just know what ever it is I'm doing ... it WRONG !
... LOL
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Front engine mount is in.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/04/a6ujehu8.jpg)
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Look I learned how to fiberglass today
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/04/9yzesu4e.jpg)
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Welcome to the CGOAMN Amber !
Keep glassin' and postin' ...
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Thanks Gregg. I will keep posting
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Nice job Amber!
Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk 2
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Good job Amber. Gotta jump in there and get your hands on it to learn.
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Having a mate who supports your G/C addiction is great, having one that actually helps = PRICELESS!
Welcome aboard Amber.
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Amber and I made some leaps and bounds today. Bilge drain tube is in. Gimbal housing key hole is cut and notches for steering. Amber got all the seams and the bilge well sealed with 1708. She also got started laying the CSM in the stern of the boat.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/06/y2ydavy5.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/06/e8uqy7e8.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/06/a7a8ysa9.jpg)
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Here is what I got done today.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/06/a2agurys.jpg)
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Lookin' nice, Brandon & Amber!
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Nice job guys!
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The race is on ... Who will get done first ... LOL ...
Sure helps to have another set of hands sometimes ...
Good job guys !
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The race is on ... Who will get done first ... LOL ...
Sure helps to have another set of hands sometimes ...
Good job guys !
Another set of hands is nice, but when you have a local build team that can split a hull, put in a transom, and put the cap back on in a day that's PRICELESS.
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YA ... Felt more like a NASCAR pit stop then a transom replacement !
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"Another set of hands is nice, but when you have a local build team that can split a hull, put in a transom, and put the cap back on in a day that's PRICELESS."
I'd have to agree, here. It took me a month to get the floor and transom done. I did little things, like the blocking behind my tie-downs and bow eye, but still. I'd love to participate in something quick like that.
I still think, with the right group of guys, we can go "Overhaulin' " at a 3-day boat show and have an old boat start original and be done with a full re-build by the close of the final day. It might be a noisy area, and the fiberglass would stink up the place, but I bet we'd have people watching.
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Looks great Amber! Well done!
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I was the Lone Ranger this evening, Amber got called into work.
I did get every thing accomplished on my list for the evening. The floor is now completely covered in CSM and cured.
The gimbal housing is now filling a big hole in the transom which I hope puts us on the fast track from this point on. My goal for tomorrow night is to test fire the 140 in the shop and get the new fuel fill and tank breather lines installed. Also I want to get the bow step supports installed .
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/07/5ypytema.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/07/y4ujebe9.jpg)
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Seriously impressed Brandon! That looks better than professional!
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Tried firing up the mercruiser 140 got it to run for 10 to 15 second intervals and then it would start choking it self out. Spark is not an issue, it will jump a quarter inch gap. After about 2 minutes i had amber run the throttle linkage and I was watching the gauges. I am wondering if I have something wired wrong? As amber was running the throttle we got it up to around 1500 rpm and all of a sudden the amp meter pegs and the engine starts cutting out. Any ideas? I wired it like the diagram in my service book except for removing the resistance wire and replacing it with a straight 12 volt source from the ign post on the switch.
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I would bypass your entire cluster if all you want is to hear it run. 12V to coil is your "on". Then a second 12V to the starter to crank it with battery cables supplying power to the starter and ground on the block somewhere. If you still have problems, try putting your old carb on there.
Then go back and figure out what is maybe wired wrong. maybe something is not grounding out properly.
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If your amp meter is pegging that is a sign of a short from power feed to ground. I suspect a bad ignition coil, try a different one and put the resistance wire back in if the coil requires it.
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I will take the cluster out of the equation tomorrow night and just hot wire the engine to run. Right now I have the red/white wire going to the sender on the amp meter which it was not wired that way before. actually it did not have anything on that post at all. and the red for power to the batt post on the switch.
On the Red/white wire, I did not have anything on there before. I am wondering if it would be best to just direct wire the cluster when it is in the boat. we will see what happens
here is a video of it trying to run.
http://youtu.be/jUcps2QwqlQ (http://youtu.be/jUcps2QwqlQ)
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If your amp meter is pegging that is a sign of a short from power feed to ground. I suspect a bad ignition coil, try a different one and put the resistance wire back in if the coil requires it.
I hope it isn't a bad coil, its brand new, I will check the ohms through it just to make sure.
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I've seen brand new coils that were bad right out of the box, they would run a minute or two and then quit. I'm not understanding what you're saying about the wiring to the ammeter, perhaps a diagram showing how you've wired it would help.
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Coil ohm out at 3.5. I checked the one on the old 120 and it was right at 3.0. Is the 3.5 within spec?
So have I Rich, when you sell parts for a living you see a lot of new parts go bad quick so its in the back of my mind. I know the one on the 120 is good if the problem persists while hot wired tomorrow evening I will swap it out. If it stays running I am going to direct wire everything an get rid on the cluster harness.
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Hot wired the engine over my dinner break. started and idled nicely, and then died again. ran for a little bit longer than last night. I had a thought though, I forgot to change the fuel filter in the fuel pump.
I am starting to think it is having a fuel issue. While I was running it all of a sudden the carb started to sound like it was gasping for air, I would give it more throttle and the carb would open up and it would recover, and stay running for a little bit longer and then start sounding the same again. If I kept changing the throttle position it would recover every time. That is what is making me lean towards the fuel issue. I will change the filter after work and try again tonight.
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Hot wired the engine over my dinner break. started and idled nicely, and then died again. ran for a little bit longer than last night. I had a thought though, I forgot to change the fuel filter in the fuel pump.
I am starting to think it is having a fuel issue. While I was running it all of a sudden the carb started to sound like it was gasping for air, I would give it more throttle and the carb would open up and it would recover, and stay running for a little bit longer and then start sounding the same again. If I kept changing the throttle position it would recover every time. That is what is making me lean towards the fuel issue. I will change the filter after work and try again tonight.
Could be the filter between the fuel line and the carb as well.... if you have one. Best to check them all right?
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Hot wired the engine over my dinner break. started and idled nicely, and then died again. ran for a little bit longer than last night. I had a thought though, I forgot to change the fuel filter in the fuel pump.
I am starting to think it is having a fuel issue. While I was running it all of a sudden the carb started to sound like it was gasping for air, I would give it more throttle and the carb would open up and it would recover, and stay running for a little bit longer and then start sounding the same again. If I kept changing the throttle position it would recover every time. That is what is making me lean towards the fuel issue. I will change the filter after work and try again tonight.
Could be the filter between the fuel line and the carb as well.... if you have one. Best to check them all right?
I changed the one in the carb over the winter and it was plugged up.
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When I got home this evening I discovered a Major problem with the 140, it has a very bad oil leak on the push rod cover. So I have made the decision to put the 120 back in Phoenix Rising for the season, and rework the 140 in the fall and over the winter. I would really love to have it in there during this season but, I guess the cards are just not on the table at the moment.
I guess I can say one good thing will come out of this. I will get to test my props with the 120 like I wanted to last fall.
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It's easy enough to switch the motor around later. That push rod cover is a very easy gasket to change. Just did mine over the winter along with some others.
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Got the 120 ready to drop back into Phoenix Rising. Also got my supports measured and cut for the stern of the boat where the foam boxes used to be. I decided to remove the foam boxes to relocate the battery from directly below the engine to a safer location. Also, I do plan on eventually putting a dual battery setup in her.
http://youtu.be/To52aYDoCZs (http://youtu.be/To52aYDoCZs)
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Oh I did forget to mention I got my dash wiring figured out, all gauges are working properly. I am hoping to have the 120 re-installed by the end of the day on sunday, I hope.
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I should reach my goal of having the 120 installed tomorrow. I got all of my supports installed, the bilge pump is installed, steering cable installed. New fuel fill and gas tank breather installed and bilge blower installed but i still have to install the duct work which will happen first thing in the morning. Also on tomorrows list is putting in the fuel tank and new hoses.
Oh i forgot to mention that the transducer for the depther sounder is installed.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0511131843_zpsd37a8c7f.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0511131843_zpsd37a8c7f.jpg.html)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0511132022_zpsc59433fd.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0511132022_zpsc59433fd.jpg.html)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0511132021_zps607d8995.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0511132021_zps607d8995.jpg.html)
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Lookin' good! Nice clean install. Hope the 140 doesn't give you too much trouble.
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Thanks Rich, I think I am going to take my time with it over the summer and rebuild the carb on top of the other issues I am having with it. I hope to have the 140 put in before Red Wing.
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Bummer about the 140 but if its just that gasket, you should have an easy fix.
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Looking good, Brandon. Can't wait to see it again at Rathbun.
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Bilge vents and duct work are in. Should be dropping in the 120 in the next hour or so. Wish me luck!
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Got the engine installed, and the Trim system install.
Going to go get more trim fluid so I can finish bleeding the system.
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0512131808_zpsfc41b9d2.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0512131808_zpsfc41b9d2.jpg.html)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0512131405b_zpsf77e73a6.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0512131405b_zpsf77e73a6.jpg.html)
(http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i387/ban-one_1/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0512131405a_zpsf226e535.jpg) (http://s1091.photobucket.com/user/ban-one_1/media/Phoenix%20Rising%20Rebuild/0512131405a_zpsf226e535.jpg.html)
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Cool! don't forget to do an engine height alignment check before putting the drive on. Adjust the height of the front motor mount if necessary.
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Already checked it with my alignment tool, slips in and out quite nicely. But I will double check it tomorrow.
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I succeed in getting my list done for this evening. I got the battery box installed and battery cables made and installed. All the air is out of the trim system. And after my father and i spent an hour fighting to get the out drive in place because the shift lever was turned and blocking our progress, it is now installed and the shift linkage is adjusted.
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Completed the installation of the dash and tilt column. Also installed the kill switch. I still need to install the hour meter, but can't decide where to put it. I have a couple choices either on the panel for the control lever or back with the engine. I am leaning towards by the control lever so I can tie into the wiring for the kill switch.
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Nice work, Brandon. Couple weeks left ...
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Had Fawkes' help today so I was able to get my shift cable adjustments correct. She also got the neutral start switch wired in.
Now while we were working on adjusting the shift cable I discovered that the reverse lockout valve is weeping fluid. So now on top of getting the interior installed, servicing the out drive , and installing a raw water pump. I now have to replace the o-rings in the valve. Anyone have some good tips for putting in the o-rings in the reverse lockout valve?
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I replace them last winter...still leaks.
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I replace them last winter...still leaks.
Great, I wonder if the one in Fawkes is any good. One question, is it a pain to replace the o-rings in it!?
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I replace them last winter...still leaks.
Great, I wonder if the one in Fawkes is any good. One question, is it a pain to replace the o-rings in it!?
No, not difficult. I had a thread on here about it somewhere. Just don't lose all the little bearings, and I was told some of the parts are NLA.
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We got the carpet put in yesterday. I got the gunwhale trim and the steering wheel in today. We got the engine cover on and the lounge seats in and the jump seat will be put in this weekend. Float test is this Thursday.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/22/4u9edase.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/22/rara2aja.jpg)
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That all looks really nice. The new steering wheel is a nice addition.
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See? I told you those seats really pop in that interior!
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Getting so close now, that thing is really lookin' SHARP! Gotta agree with Barb too, that steering wheel is a nice touch IMHO. ;)
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Looks great !
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Looking good Brandon & Amber! Good luck with the water test!
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Looks awesome! Bet that really feels to good to nearly have it done. Hope the first splash goes well.
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Thanks all! I have been both nervous and excited to get her back in the water since we made the re-splash day for Thursday on Sunday evening.
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Can't wait for results, Brandon.
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I am crossing my fingers that I have no leaks.
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Lots of progress over the last few weeks. Looking good.
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Filled the fuel tank up for the lake run tomorrow. I added in a whistler in the fuel tank breather line to help prevent over filling of the fuel tank. Everyone at the pumps was looking at me weird when I started pumping fuel in and it started whistling, but it did what it was supposed to. At 17.56 gallons on the pump it stopped making noise, (which means it is full) got home and hooked up the hose and fired up the engine and the gauge read full right on the money.
Oh, i did also find out that my shift interrupter switch is working and I need to do a little more adjustment to my shift cables. When I put it in reverse it would die right on the spot. So for tomorrow I disconnected it for the run on the lake. I figure that one more outing won't hurt since it has been not working for the past two seasons and I haven't seen any metal in the lube when I change it.
I also learned one more thing, with a solid boat the hull does vibrate a little when the engine is at idle, but there is no vibration when the engine is revved up a little.
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WoW looking GOOD! Hope everything goes well tomorrow. Good Luck.
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Today's the day! Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for ya!
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Here is to a great "splash day"
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Don't forget to put the plug in!! Make sure you have everything on your safety list. Before the first time out is always when I go over my checklist of mandatory safety items, PFD's, throw cushion, whistle, etc.
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Don't forget to put the plug in!! Make sure you have everything on your safety list. Before the first time out is always when I go over my checklist of mandatory safety items, PFD's, throw cushion, whistle, etc.
Already did last night when I went through the tote that all the stuff went into when we cleaned her out after Red Wing. I also piled four of our PFDs on top of the tote. I will probably be making a check list while I am here at work this morning. I guess if I miss anything the marina at the lake is fully stocked.
Well will see what happens, hope to have a good report for all of you this evening.
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Good luck Brandon !
Hope every thing go's smooth .
But bring some tools just in case ...LOL
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Hey Gregg, did you see you were the 300th post on this topic?
Way to have a popular thread Brandon!
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Hey Gregg, did you see you were the 300th post on this topic?
Way to have a popular thread Brandon!
I have it saved as a "favorite" for reference! ;)
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" Hey Gregg, did you see you were the 300th post on this topic? "
I want to see it end ...
So we can start following a new CVZ thread !
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Well it isn't ending yet, I have some bad news and some good news from the float today. First the bad.
Launch went OK, then within the first ten minutes I had water in the bilge. After searching for another ten minutes figuring out where the water is coming in I spot the glimmer of water trickeling out of the right hand drain hole into the bilge. So we pulled it out of the lake and tried to figure out where the water is coming in. After backing in a couple more times trying to figure out how far in Phoenix had to be for the water to start coming in we pulled it out and I crawled under looking for a hole or crack while amber and my parents checked the rest of the hull. We think we found where the water is getting in but we are unsure so we pulled it 45 minutes south to the only marine shop around here that does fiberglass work and have them take a look. Well the service manager did not agree with us on where we thought the water was coming in, so we decided that is in our best interest to leave Phoenix Rising in their care to locate the leak. We decided this because to diagnose the leak it is going to cost us $56.00 per hour and well at the $100.00 mark that is the cost to fuel up the Yukon to pull it there if I decide I can't fix the leak and have them do the repair. Plus I would like to see how good their work is because I plan on having all the other gel coat issues fixed there this winter any way.
OK, on to the good. The leak is minor may be had a single gallon of water in the bilge by the time we pulled Phoenix Rising out of the lake. The other good that came out of today is that my depth sounder worked and gave me a reading of 6.7ft.
Well it sounded like they might be able to pressure test the hull tomorrow. I will keep all of you informed on what we find out about the needed repairs to the hull of Phoenix Rising when I get the call.
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So you/they think the hull is leaking ?
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So you/they think the hull is leaking ?
Correct it is leaking.
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??? ??? ???
So ... Put water in hull and see where it comes out ?
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Well that sucks, but at least you'll have the answer hopefully today instead of spending hours/days trying to figure it out and then hoping you don't have more issues. Fingers crossed that the news is as good as it can be and the fix is reasonable!
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??? ??? ???
So ... Put water in hull and see where it comes out ?
Yep that is what the shop is going to do.
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No visible screw heads poking out of hull, cracks, chips ?
No leaks last season ?
WEIRD ?
Ya .. Hope it's an easy fix ...
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No visible screw heads poking out of hull, cracks, chips ?
No leaks last season ?
WEIRD ?
Ya .. Hope it's an easy fix ...
there is one new crack amber and I are suspecting is the leak (because when we found it and pressed on it water came weeping out of it), but the service manager did not think it was the cause.
No leaks last season some water in the bilge at Red Wing but never set off the bilge pump, I actually ran it on manual and maybe pumped water for 10 seconds.
Now could it be residual damage from our accidental jump from the pleasure boat wake at Red Wing? It could be.
At least I learned something so when I repair Fawkes I will fill the hull with water before I put the foam in to check for any leaks.
I do hope it is an easy fix so the new floor does not have to come back out. If the floor does have to come out, depending on what they quote me for a cost, I might do the demo of the floor and repair it my self.
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AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH ....
That would SUCK !
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If it's a crack in the hull below the floor, I'm pretty sure you can grind out the crack and patch the fiberglass from the outside. Lost of loose chopped strand. Then you have to patch the gel.
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AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH ....
That would SUCK !
Yep it would SUCK! We are hoping to have it for Rathbun, but at this point who knows. They said yesterday that they might get it checked out today or tomorrow. I hope to know something by Tuesday.
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If it's a crack in the hull below the floor, I'm pretty sure you can grind out the crack and patch the fiberglass from the outside. Lost of loose chopped strand. Then you have to patch the gel.
That is my hope Dan. That it will be a quick repair and have it back to test it again next Saturday the first of June.
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Gel repair is easy, it's the color matching that's hard !
If it's on bottom of hull, color wouldn't be that important ...
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We know it's under the waterline ...
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We know it's under the waterline ...
Yep, it starts coming in even before it comes off the trailer. Heck, actually it happens even before the tires are completely submerged. As soon as the hull is clear of the water right behind the trailer wheel the water flow stops. BTW that is where the suspected crack is located behind the RH trailer wheel.
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Well...no news today. >:( Did not have time to look at it. Said they should be able to look at it tomorrow or Tuesday.
But at least they will put Phoenix Rising inside for the weekend. :)
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This may seem like a dumb question but you did use a new seal on the transom assembly, right? I remember once trying to trace down a mysterious leak on a boat and it was coming in from 2 places, through the trim hose block gasket on the bottom of the transom shield and from the joint where the exhaust pipe bolts to the transom shield inside behind the engine. Most other leaks are easier to spot but those are tough because they're underneath and behind the engine.
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New gasket on the trim block, and transom seal all torqued to the specs in my manual. I checked the o-ring on the exhaust tube it was in good shape. I felt all around the inner transom plate and felt no moisture at all while tied up on the dock.
The water was coming from the drain hole for the stringer on the RH side. It was just a trickle and the only way I saw it was the sun had moved into just the right position for it to make the water sparkle.
But thanks for asking.
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I hate being indecisive!
Been itchin' to work on Phoenix Rising all day today, and wishing I would have just brought her home now instead of pulling her to the boat shop. So when I get the chance to go get her I am going to take it and do the leak repair my self.
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If it makes you feel any better my dad and I bought a new Glastron 170SE in 1996, thought it would be a great boat for my young family. I brought it back to my Dad house and decided to install a fire extinguisher, you can see where this is going, drilled a pilot hole right through the bottom of the new boat...Boy did I feel stupid.
I never really like that Glastron they didn't build them like they use too...I'm sure you will get it figured out and be on the water in a few days...
Joe
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I would fill the bilge with the garden hose while on the trailer & check for leaks.
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I would fill the bilge with the garden hose while on the trailer & check for leaks.
That is what I am going to do when I get her back on tuesday.
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The boat shop (Buzz's Marine) beat me to the punch. They got Phoenix Rising tested on Saturday. Found 3 leaks total. One on the Right hand side of the bottom of the hull. One on the RH rear of the transom where there was a patch from a previous owner. and then one of the andnoid bolts was weeping. Told them to go a head and do the two on the hull. Not bad cost in my book, be around $600 for both, and they will have her done by the weekend!! ;D
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Sweet...
so you are "good to go"
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Sweet...
so you are "good to go"
Should be pending any complications.
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Great to hear, Brandon. Especially since you and Amber could only identify one. It would have been frustrating to fix the one you knew of, and still had water coming in. Let us know how the weekend goes.
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Great to hear, Brandon. Especially since you and Amber could only identify one. It would have been frustrating to fix the one you knew of, and still had water coming in. Let us know how the weekend goes.
Actually Amber and I were guessing wrong. We thought it was on the side of the hull, not the bottom or on the transom.
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Yeah, when you put the transom brackets back on, you have to go back and retorque all the bolts back down after a few days...as the gasket settles in, it compresses and the bolts will loosen up.
I think on mine, I had to go back 2 or 3 times before they finally stayed at the recommended torque.
So the other to areas...I would have thought they'd have been leaking all along then?
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So the other to areas...I would have thought they'd have been leaking all along then?
Maybe they were, maybe they were not? I rarely ever had any water in the bilge after running, I wonder if the issues did not start after our air time at Red Wing last year. I did manage to pump some water out of it on that saturday when amber and I went up to lock and dam #3.
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Possible. Glad you're getting it fixed up (and pretty reasonably I might add)...should be all set for Rathbun!
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Possible. Glad you're getting it fixed up (and pretty reasonably I might add)...should be all set for Rathbun!
Us too. Having them work up a quote on fixing all the blisters and some other issues with the gel while it is in there for repair after the season. Kind of curious to see what their work looks like. I am really contemplating having Fawkes completely re-geled.
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I am really contemplating having Fawkes completely re-geled.
Would you keep the same colors? Personally, I'd love to have a 'Berry Red' & Cream CVZ-18 (like Doug's Metric, or that Metric bowrider everyone loves on GOTD)...I think that'd look amazing.
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I am really contemplating having Fawkes completely re-geled.
Would you keep the same colors? Personally, I'd love to have a 'Berry Red' & Cream CVZ-18 (like Doug's Metric, or that Metric bowrider everyone loves on GOTD)...I think that'd look amazing.
Yes I would keep it as close to original as possible. For some reason I am attracted to the different colored boats. Honestly I hated the Orange on Phoenix Rising and wanted to repaint her, but I could not part with that color if I tried.
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Since Phoenix Rising is in the shop for some fiberglass repair I thought I would start working on cutting down the jump seats so the top of the back is flush with the top of the stern of the boat.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/29/hyzaqynu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/29/7atetanu.jpg)
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Got some news on how the hull repair is going on Phoenix Rising today. The gel on the bottom of the hull is giving them fits. I guess they are running into some bad gel and are having some adhesion problems. At this point they are hoping to have her done by Monday or Tuesday at the latest.
Amber and I are going to run over there and get some parts for the 140. So I may talk to them about just re-geling the whole bottom of the hull in the fall just to make sure all the problems are repaired.
I can say one thing they are sticking by their repair quote, and not charging any extra for the problems they are having.
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Got both jump seats cut down today. I removed a inch and a half off the back of the base so we don't have to have a 2x4 spacer to tilt them against the stern supports where the foam boxes used to be.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/edepanab.jpg)
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Started working on fixing the oil leak on the 140 this evening. All I have to say is why oh why do people use that gasket maker stuff? The push rod cover is covered in it. Not to mention the old gasket on the fuel pump that was patched also with the silicone gasket maker.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/9adaze5e.jpg)
Any ideas on how to remove this stuff?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/abazegy4.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/03/y7y4aryp.jpg)
And the crud that came out of the fuel pump when it was removed.
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A nice sharp razor blade should take all that off.
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That was my thoughts, worked well on the fuel pump mounting. Think I am going to have to buy a narrow chisel tomorrow.
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Many new cars, when you go to the dealer and ask for a gasket set, they hand you a tube of silicone. It's all in the way you use it.
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Just got an update on the hull repair. wet sanding has started! should be able to pick her up tomorrow evening.
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Just got an update on the hull repair. wet sanding has started! should be able to pick her up tomorrow evening.
Great news!
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good timing...
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Phoenix Rising is done and ready to be picked up! Pictures of the repairs will be posted late this afternoon!
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Phoenix Rising is home. Repairs are top notch, all I have to say is thank you Buzz's Marine for getting the repairs done! She will be back for more work in the fall.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/05/7uganane.jpg)
And one of the starboard bottom rear
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/05/qetybu5y.jpg)
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NICE ! I'll check it out in person on Thursday/Friday ...
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Looks good! Bet that freshly buffed bit of orange gets you wanting to butt out the whole boat!
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Well, they are actually working up a quote for me on re-geling the hull below the rub rail to eliminate all issues with blisters and scrapes, and then buffing above the rub rail to match the finish of the bottom.
BTW the orange is not an exact match, just something they had on hand to get by for now.
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just something they had on hand to get by for now.
The repair looks top notch. Good luck this weekend and have fun.
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Phoenix Rising did well on Friday at Rathbun. Set a new speed record with the 120 and the aluminum 19p Michigan wheel prop even though we were having some shift problems caused by the shift interrupt switch which left her trailered for Saturday.
So on to the speed record we reached 39.2mph GPS a gain of 7mph over the old record of 32mph from last year. I can't wait to see what she will do with the 19p stainless I have, I hope she breaks 40 MPH I would be ecstatic!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/10/epu5uge3.jpg)
Its amazing what removing wet foam and wood can do to the handling and speed of a boat. I actually had a torque steer affect happen when I would go WOT from running at 2000rpm. Phoenix Rising would actually try to turn the steering wheel in my hand. She also came out of the hole faster, and did not have to trim her nearly as much to get her to level off on plain. Oh and I have to say the ride has changed completely with the hull filled with foam, its quite and she does not beat you up nearly as bad as she used too.
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Cool! At what rpm were you reaching top speed?
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Cool! At what rpm were you reaching top speed?
4600-4700 RPM I believe.
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Might be just a tad high for rpm's. I had a 21p stainless on my 120 and was getting up to 4600 rpm. I bet you could swing one too.
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I just skimmed through this whole thread and I'm impressed. You did a great job! I replaced a transom and floor on a '69 Glasspar about 20 years ago so I have a little experience with this and can understand the hours and thought that went into this project. When you get that gel coat done you are going to have one impressive boat.
PeterJ
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Rich, I have a 21 aluminum, laser II and ballistic to try after the 19p stainless Michigan wheel. After the 140 is in I will get to start all over again.
Peter, thanks its been a long time coming. I can't believe how much I have enjoyed bringing her back to her former glory. And I can't wait to do the same for my CVZ project.
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Sorry to hear it spent Saturday on the trailer.
39 MPH Is really moving for a 120, good job!
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Sorry to hear it spent Saturday on the trailer.
39 MPH Is really moving for a 120, good job!
Thanks Jim! I hated leaving her on the trailer, I really wanted to try that stainless 19p.
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Finally worked on Phoenix Rising to work out the bugs that I found at rathbun.
Replaced the leaking fuel level sender.
Resealed the reverse lock valve, and adjusted the shift cables per my cylmer manual.
I will test to see if I got it right tomorrow evening.
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The wind has been blowin for the past week so haven't been able to splash Phoenix Rising since adjusting the shifting cables.
Ordered two 6 port fuse panels and a ground buss bar, and spent the majority of the weekend under the dash cleaning up the nest of wiring for all the switches on the dash. But since the ground buss bar has not arrived I only have the power side of things done, but that was an accomplishment in it self since I decided to match all the color coding for the wires so they are easier to trace. Plus since I upgraded the key switch to a four post with keyed accessory I now have two separate fuse panels one with full time power and one with keyed power only.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/24/ty8upama.jpg)
I took some ques from Ross's wire job on Gregg's boat, thanks for the ideas Ross!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/24/numa4e7a.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/24/edy5y5e9.jpg)
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Looks vary nice Brandon :D
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Well all the rebuild chapter of Phoenix Rising is almost at an end. Cleaning up the nest of wires under the dash is complete. The ground buss arrived Monday and I was able to get all the grounds cleaned up and hooked up. Also got the radio and front speakers installed on Monday.
So at this point all that is left is to finish up putting the 140 together and get it installed, get the jump seats cut down so they fit below the rear deck. And some time install the rear set of speakers for the radio.
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Time to start a CVZ thread !
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Time to start a CVZ thread !
Probably this fall, hope to have the CVZ in a cradle before winter.
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Well I got bored this evening and it cooled off enough to go out on the shop so I decided to clean my benches off. Well after 30 minutes I am done with that. So... remember what the Carb filter looked like that came out of the 140?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/27/dete9eme.jpg)
Well after looking at it again tonight I decided to remove to cover off of the Carb and guess what I found more of the same crud sitting in the bottom of the bowl, in the jets, and its about half way up the screen that sits next to the pump.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/27/esege3as.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/27/arema6yn.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/27/ajy2ated.jpg)
So after some thought I am going to send it off to the Carb shop in MLPS and get it rebuilt. I guess if the 140 does not get installed this year there is always next year. But you never know what will happen I guess.
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That's some nasty stuff ... amazing what you find in old engine parts, huh?
Great job on this thread, Brandon - I'm with Gregg, and ready for the CVZ.
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Probably somewhere in this thread, you talked about your gas tank. Didn't you do something with that? Sure looks like where the crud came from.
The wiring looks great and I especially like the constant hots and keyed hots. I think I am going to look at mine again. What do you have going to "key on" fuse block"? Stereo might be a good one so you dont run the battery down accidently while beached.
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Probably somewhere in this thread, you talked about your gas tank. Didn't you do something with that? Sure looks like where the crud came from.
The wiring looks great and I especially like the constant hots and keyed hots. I think I am going to look at mine again. What do you have going to "key on" fuse block"? Stereo might be a good one so you dont run the battery down accidently while beached.
Yep the gas tank I had cleaned and lined at tank renu over in Iowa during the winter. and yes there was some crud in the tank but the carb filter on the 120 is as clean as a whistle. I purchased the 140 used for an eventual upgrade from Joe. But it came out of one of his donor boats so I expected some minor repairs. Plus I am kind of anal about wanting to drop in an engine that is as reliable as my 120 has been for me.
On the accessory side of the key switch I only have 3 things at the moment. The radio of course, my interior lighting, and my 12 volt power socket for charging phones and such.
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Pulled the manifold off of the 140 this evening and found a major issue. The engine has been frozen before. The first clue that lead me to this thought is that both freeze plugs are brand new. Also I discovered an issue with the manifold it self it has around a four inch freeze crack in it. So where do I go from here? It doesn't look like it has been leaking, so do I just put it back on or do I search for a good used one?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/28/4ubeza7e.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/28/muju2ama.jpg)
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If it's not leaking grind away the rust and put a coat of MarineTex over the crack and use it. Later if it leaks get another one. Just be sure it doesn't leak into the exhaust passages on the inside or you could have water ingesting into the exhaust ports.
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Is there any good way to pressure test it?
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Not exactly sure how you would. Maybe fabricate a plate to cover the outlets using a gasket in between and attach a hose to the inlet on the front end.
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I might try that Rich. I took my mirror and a pen light an was able to see the inside of the exhaust tube near the crack. News is good no crack. Also, I have some other good news to report. Looks like the block and head may have been gone through in the not so distant past. Looks like there is a new head gasket, and new brass soft plugs in the head it self. It also shows some signs of a recent planing job on the intake an exhaust ports, and the manifold gasket looks like it has very few hours of use.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/28/gadudapy.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/28/7areheje.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/28/9e8ynyge.jpg)
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Every froze 140 I've seen has cracked on the side of the block under the intake/exhaust manifold as seen in your last picture. I bet your block is fine. I don't see any cracks. I would just put it back together, hook up the hose, run it and look for milky oil or water pouring out the side engine onto the floor.
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Oh, I am sure the block is fine Jason. As I stated before, it looks to me like there was some work done to the head an d block not that long ago, heck, the valves almost look new also.
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If there is ANY rust on those exhaust valves, or guides it could cause a valve to hang open and take out the motor. I would pull the head and clean it up.
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If there is ANY rust on those exhaust valves, or guides it could cause a valve to hang open and take out the motor. I would pull the head and clean it up.
After some thought and talking with the machinist we use out at work, to clean the head and the manifold and pressure test both it is only $110.00. He even thought he might be able to fix the freeze crack in the manifold if it does leak. But of course that would be more money. So I am going to pull the head and have Amber drop it and the manifold off some time next week.
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Pulled the head this evening, I think who ever had this head off the last time got the wrong gasket set. None of the holes in the head gasket were the correct size or shape for any of the water jackets. I am glad I pulled the head, because I learned something, never go by the exterior looks of an engine, if you are unsure tear it down. Also the cylinders look really good no scoring on the cylinder walls and no rust on the pistons.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/29/jynedune.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/29/ga9etu7y.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/29/7y3upyde.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/29/avypyqam.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/29/tezydu2u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/29/ysapunu9.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/29/7yjyru3u.jpg)
After seeing the pitting on the intake valves, I think a valve job is in order.
BTW this is the first time I have ever pulled a head off of an engine!
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The pistons look like it's never been run. The valves may just need cleaning. You don't want to grind them unless you have to.
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Look who took the wheel for awhile
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/01/2a4ababa.jpg)
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Took Phoenix Rising to Sherman Reservoir today. She ran great! The shifting issues we had at Rathbun have been solved, and the shift interrupt switch is now working!
Oh , I forgot to mention we switched to a 19p stainless prop, and broke the 40 MPH mark. GPS showed 40.1 with a full tank of fuel. Tried again with a half tank and maxed out again at 40.1 MPH with the engine turning 4600 rpm. We are defiantly going to try out the three 21p props we have, I think there is still more speed to be found in the old girl.
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Excellent! I assume this is with the 120 engine, right? 40 mph was all I got out of mine too in the V174.
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Excellent! I assume this is with the 120 engine, right? 40 mph was all I got out of mine too in the V174.
Yep it is with the 120 yet. The 140 is in pieces.
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Glad to see Amber learning to drive the boat. That will be good experience for her when she gets her CVZ18 rebuilt with V8. Did she have some fun behind the wheel?
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I had did have fun driving the boat
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Well all, the 140 will be going to the scrap yard in the next couple of weeks! The Head has a freeze crack right in one of the exhaust chambers so I am not going to take any chances on the block no matter how good it looks. On the plus side though, I will have gained a few extra parts for future use, and a freshly rebuilt carb when it returns from the carb shop in MLPS. I do still intend on eventually finding a 140 but that will now be down the road in a few years after Fawkes is done unless a good engine turns up cheap close to home.
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Shame, sorry to hear. I would still check over the block and if need be find a new head for it.
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Shame, sorry to hear. I would still check over the block and if need be find a new head for it.
I am thinking of tearing it down all the way to the rotating assembly and give it a good once over before I take it to the junk yard. I've never been in to an engine that far so it will be a good experence for me. But, If it looks OK I probably will take it to get checked out.
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Phoenix Rising will have a little better ride on her trailer from now on. Got a set of wobble rollers from Joe at Rathbun and finally got them installed today. The keel is no longer sitting on the roller on the front cross member.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/15/by5esy8e.jpg)
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I think I'd still push that roller up onto the keel.
I had lots of grief with my wobblers but mostly the rear. They never wanted to go back to the same location. If you just have them in the front, you might not have any trouble?
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Hope I don't have any issues, we will see this weekend. On another note, I walk Phoenix on to her trailer, so I should have fairly good luck I hope.
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The new wobble rollers worked great this weekend. Loading and launching went smooth! Thank you Joe for the rollers! One thing I need to change is to get non marking rollers, I now have 3ft long roller marks under the bow, Oh well they worked.
Got to play with one of my two 21P stainless props this weekend. Put the Laser II on while beached and took it for a run. Good news it is not spun!! Now for the numbers I did not have my GPS with me because of the rough waters, but Speedo on the boat showed 45mph I believe, which is 2mph higher than my GPS so should now be running 43 mph with the Laser II. The 120 went from turning 4800rpm with the stainless 19p to 4300rpm with the Laser II 21p. I will say it is kind of wired not hearing that 120 screaming at the top of her lungs.
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Good numbers, My 120 liked the 21p stainless too.
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The new wobble rollers worked great this weekend. Loading and launching went smooth! Thank you Joe for the rollers! One thing I need to change is to get non marking rollers, I now have 3ft long roller marks under the bow, Oh well they worked.
Got to play with one of my two 21P stainless props this weekend. Put the Laser II on while beached and took it for a run. Good news it is not spun!! Now for the numbers I did not have my GPS with me because of the rough waters, but Speedo on the boat showed 45mph I believe, which is 2mph higher than my GPS so should now be running 43 mph with the Laser II. The 120 went from turning 4800rpm with the stainless 19p to 4300rpm with the Laser II 21p. I will say it is kind of wired not hearing that 120 screaming at the top of her lungs.
Glad they worked for you. Those individual wobble rollers in the none marring type can add up. How many are under there?
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Just two sets so 4 rollers total. I think the last time I was at buzz's marine in kearney they were around $17.00 ea, I think.