Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Crebb on January 06, 2013, 12:00:57 PM
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I'm new and thanks for having me. I've been reading this forum for several months and it has been a big help planing my project. It's a 1981 C-500 Carlson. Has the stardard features: rotten transom, soft spots in the floor, broken windshield, the seats are toast and the gelcoat is faded. Just started taking it apart, I have a question that I have not seen here. Glastron specs say this color (Emerald Mist) comes with a Green Mint interior. My interior is blue and sure looks to be the original. What's the deal? The blue really doesn't look that good with the emerald but I want it to be original. Could it have been a mistake in the build? Ready to take the seats to the upholsterer and need to know the right color. If you have any insight, I would appreciate it.
Thanks, Crebb
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There is a lot of inconsistencies in the brochures. Most likely printed out six months before production. Every emerald mist i have seen has had the green interior. Very cool boat and color. Can you post pictures of it ?
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I've also never seen an Emerald Mist with anything but a matching mint interior.
I do know that another member OleRed has seen a Scimitar that started blue and faded to a green, so maybe that's possible?
and Welcome!
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I'd say your boat was blue but has faded green. Pretty common. The clear gel starts to yellow over time and mix that with blue and you get green. My blue '79 CVX18 is doing it. My brothers '80 Intimidator had it something fierce. Interesting is that I've seen many older blue CVX16's that look fine. It seems like certain blues(darker) have more of a tendency to do this.
A good wet-sand and polish did wonders for mine but if you pull off any of the deck hardware you can really see how it's taken on a green hue over the years.
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Could be ... Kip ...
Pull some deck hardware ...
OH YA ... Welcome to CGOAMN Crebb !
Pictures MAN Pictures ....
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/1981C-500-1_zps3348385a.png)
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Yes - Welcome Crebb!
What is the solid color?
You can never use the marketing brochures as gospel but if the boat is emerald mist it should have a mint green solid color. If it was blue metal flake then it should have a baby blue solid color.
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You guys are right on the money. I feel stupid, now that the seats and windshield are out you can see that the boat was blue and has faded to green. Weird how it faded so evenly with no blotches or shadows. So now what? I'm sure I can get a shine on this but it's always going to look bad with the yellowed clearcoat. I have pix for you but I cannot get them on here. Reduced the size by 50% twice so they are less than 100KB and still won't go. Then I go to post without the photos and it says I already posted this. I can't figure it out.
Thanks for the help,
Crebb
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Email them to me. addresses Is in my profile.
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Lookin' GOOD Curt !
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/curtcvx16-1_zps39155b5d.png)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/IMG_0003_zps1bc1526c.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/IMG_0002_zps7d84228c.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/IMG_0001_zps1d9d3b93.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/IMG_0005_zps4ee90760.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/IMG_0004_zps3e10e69d.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/IMG_0006_zpsfeba5d5a.jpg)
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I've always liked the metric series interiors, I think they are the best ones glastron ever made...I would not change anything!!!
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I agree. Reminds me of the interior that was in my Celebrity which was very classy. Those seats and rear bench would great in my CVX.
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Send pictures of the Jetflite !
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/1966jetflitecurtcvx16_zpsf26d730e.png)
I've owned two Celebrity Crownlines ....
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/88Celb02.jpg)
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What ever happened to Celebrity Boats? I always thought they made a great boat...
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that boat looks the same color as my scimitar .. Ocean Aqua
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj231/OleReds/IMG_0005_zps4ee907601_zps677a14f1.jpg)
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" What ever happened to Celebrity Boats? "
Scooter said investment banker brought it in mid 90's ( not sure of time ) quality went down, sales went down ...
Son of previous owner got it back and improved product ...
Very nice boats now !
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Celebrity got bought by Bombadier. The old owners then started Mariah and Crownline boats. Scooter told me this one year at the Mpls boat show when I commented how the new Crowline on display was the splitting image of my older Celebrity.
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Nuther C500 pic:
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I wish it was ocean Aqua, then I wouldn't have the color issue. No one has said what to do; wet sand or new clearcoat or both?
I knew someone was going to ask about the JetFlight. Just bought that 'cause it was there and I think it could be something still. Haven't even thought about starting on it yet. I would gladly send pictures as we go along and of the JetFlight but I cannot make this thing take my photos. Hyper says to try photo bucket. Going there next.
I know boat mfg's get bought and sold all the time. Glastron (gobbled by 4winns parent co) is now over here just 50 miles from me. Don't know who owned Crownline in 2005 but the one I have is very high quality. Except for the transom ladder, stupidest thing I ever saw. Must have left that the the engineers on the "B" team. You guys are a lot of fun, I can see burning up some time here and learning lots. Both my son's are in Minneapolis with new babies, so I get over there every other month or so. Saw your booth at the Minneapolis boat show last year and that's what started me on the Carlsons again. Used to be into them in the 80's. Motor coming off this weekend and then the cap off after that. Hope you have a plan for my gelcoat by the time she goes back together.
Thanks,
Crebb
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Here's my C500. As you can see she's a lil rougher than yours ... It was advertised as a 16' Glasstron w/140. I was mainly interested in the motor so I drove all the freakin way to Brooksville to have a look see. Knew it was a C500 soon as I pulled up. Could hardly contain myself when she showed 130psi plus in all 4 holes.
I have the trim'n windshield. Sadly no interior whatsoever. Do plan a restoration, eventually. Meanwhile the motor is on my Quasi Glastron (Baja) and runnin like a champ.
Yo Crebb. Please take some closeup pics of yer interior? If'n ya don't mind ...
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Honestly, the answer is going to be 'it depends'. On my CVZ, the flake has actually faded from a metalflake copper, to a metalflake gold. See the difference in the 2 pictures against the same upholstery sample?
Mine won't come back to the original color without a complete regel, and that's $. So...I did a complete wetsand, heavy compound, buffing, buffing and more buffing...and it came back to a pretty decent gold color. (See 3rd & 4th picture)
My suggestion would be to start with some marine finish restorer and see what kind of progress you make...I'm sure others will chime in as well.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LfEml1lrNxs/S20Fbs88v_I/AAAAAAAAHEk/7tMUOvK6_3w/s400/P2050095.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MQdGe9tPDwI/S3XZAQs7tbI/AAAAAAAAHEk/GDJNxf4gnyc/s400/P2110106.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LEtZHBsS5Lk/Tmg_tvhL0EI/AAAAAAAAHPQ/W55KS0DsdRg/s400/DSCF0335.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sSBK-_hvs9w/Tmg_pbzXzDI/AAAAAAAAHPE/xIl2IeNHTjI/s400/DSCF0332.JPG)
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3M videos ...
3M Marine Professional Gelcoat Finishing System (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke5kfYz9Ybw#)
We did Tim's with some very nice results ... about page 9
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2985.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2985.0)
Still looking for Scott's thread ...
EDIT ... found it ... http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2722.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2722.0)
Mine is here ...
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2666.0 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=2666.0)
Gel/flake is very thick, look at one of your deep scratches.
I wet sanded with 800 then 1500 then 3000 then 3M Imperial Compound then 3M Finesse-it II then Scotchgard Marine Liquid Wax .
Jeff says there is now a 5000 wet sand pad/paper ...
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20S4K7000000_nid=5FR43SWD04be9NQK7NZ8TZgl (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20S4K7000000_nid=5FR43SWD04be9NQK7NZ8TZgl)
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20S4K7000000_nid=GSX5TD37QHbe9NQK7NZ8TZgl (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20S4K7000000_nid=GSX5TD37QHbe9NQK7NZ8TZgl)
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20S4K7000000_nid=QJJN0QGMQ7gsH8PTZGX97RglV6CQ7378DBbl (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Marine/Home/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U5230GE3E02LECIE20S4K7000000_nid=QJJN0QGMQ7gsH8PTZGX97RglV6CQ7378DBbl)
Before ...
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/76%20CV16%20blue/DSCN0333.jpg)
After ...
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/76%20CV16%20blue/DSCN0582.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/07-28-12/wcs-6.jpg)
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I checked all those links you sent. Looks like there is hope for my hull. There pictures you posted sure are some great looking results. Thanks.
Here is another shot at posting the pix of the JetFlight.
Crebb
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Jetflite looks pretty good, cool little boats !
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/66gl-143-144pics.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/65gl-v143-150.jpg)
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/64gl-v164-143pic.jpg)
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Well back at it this weekend. More getting the shop ready actually. Never realized I would need air sander but obviously not wet sanding with my electric sanders. I have several little compressors but nothing that's going to run a DA. Found a big honkin 7hp 60 gal compressor on craigslist and went and bought it yesterday. Getting that set up and ready to build a cradle next. I've been looking for a pix of a cradle in the various posts but haven't seen one yet. I have a plan but would like to see if there's some better ideas out there first. Needs to be adjustable to do the JetFlight later too. Also could use a suggestion on where to buy all this sandpaper. I see it straight from 3M's website and at autogeek etc. Nothing local in my little town.
Crebb
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We used electric buffers and sanders for all the jobs we did ...
Standing in a puddle of water holdin' an electric power tool ... HUUUMMMM ...
Boy, that don't sound safe ....
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Yep, I used my electric palm sander as much as possible.
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I used to do stuff like that too. Not comfortable with it anymore. And what a nice excuse to get a new item in the shop. Was only $300.
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" And what a nice excuse to get a new item in the shop "
Say no more ...
LOL !
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All the electric sanders and buffers were plugged into GFI outlets should not be a problem.
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I have a "wet pad" and a "buffer pad" for my DA. really works great.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/DSC00995Medium.jpg)
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My motto is....Get a new project, Get a new tool !
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V153 Doug, Got the pix of the interior you wanted. Sending them direct if your email is in profile.
Crebb
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You guys sure put me on the right track for restoring gelcoat. I did this spot on the C-500 tonight in just a few minutes with 1500 wet and course compound by hand. Amazing.
Crebb
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She's gonna shine like a new penny when your done !
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Looks like it is gonna come back real nice! When I did my CVX18 I tried not to remove anymore material(gelcoat)than necessary to get the results I wanted.
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Looks like it is gonna come back real nice! When I did my CVX18 I tried not to remove anymore material(gelcoat)than necessary to get the results I wanted.
I agree. You don't wanna get too aggresive, 'specially when dealing with metalflake. Cuz if'n ya get down into the flake yer effed.
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Makes sense, thanks. I think I'll start out with 1500. Even if it takes a little longer it would eliminate a whole step with 1000 or 1200? 1500 then med compound then finish compound (Finess it) ? is that the stuff? This is a ways off anyway, got the transom and floor to deal with first. Finally got the engine mothballed and off the boat Wed night. Still need to build a cart / cradle. Don't see many pix of cradles on this forum. I guess just a rectangle out of 2x6's and then some struts up to stringers with wrapped with carpet? I thought of just leaving it on the trailer, pushes around easy but I think it would loose it's shape when the lid comes off. Maybe I could just put more struts and supports on the trailer? What do you guys have?
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Crebb,
I actually plan on pulling my V-179 off the trailer and put it on a cradle to work on the stringers and Transom. Then the plan is to move the cradle over to my CVZ-18 and then do the stringers and transom and then work on the gel coat repair. I would think that a trailer would cause too many localized pressure points and cause the hull to twist with or with out the cap on.
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re: cradles - Have you seen Frisco Boater's series on the rebuild of his CVX Crebb? There are two videos on how he built the cradle he's using;
Project Carlson CVX-18 - Building a Cradle Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGGQo737OZk#ws)
Project Carlson CVX-18 - Building a Cradle Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgEujA9rXX8#ws)
Plus Ole Red built a nice one under the Scimitar, I'm sure he'd be glad to help with info on his if needed.
My GT150 sat on the trailer when I was doing the stringers and floor, but I moved the bunks outward as far as possible and made sure the hull was up off the center rollers until the structure part of the project was done and the cap was back on. It's an amateur job, but the thread is below if you would like to look it over;
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4433 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4433)
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Mark beat me to it.
Frisco's redoing a CVX-18 right now, and his videos are top notch. That boat is going to be the best rebuilt CVX-18 out there when its done.
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I just built one for my 23 on wed. night I will get some photos posted in my 23 rebuild thread this weekend
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here is a simple cradle i built for my CV21 which is highly modifiable to add supports for stringer replacement etc. the good part about it is there is plenty of room to move underneath
i know some of you guys are following my painfully slow rebuild over at the main site but here is the link to my rebuild thread.
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2209 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2209)
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/GT_160/theCV21004-37.jpg)
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/GT_160/theCV21005-30.jpg)
ignore the broken straps on the ground to the right
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/GT_160/theCV21035-1.jpg)
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/GT_160/theCV21048-1.jpg)
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/GT_160/theCV21055.jpg)
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/GT_160/theCV21056.jpg)
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/GT_160/theCV21053.jpg)
i modified it to flip her over very soon
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/GT_160/theCV21010-43.jpg)
(http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp282/GT_160/theCV21007-55.jpg)
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Who is Frisco Boater? Can't find him under search. Yesterady found Hyperacme's Powerboat Mag boat tests on cvx 16's and cvx 18. Greg, you can tell where to find it. Interestingly the CVX 18 in 77 had a 302 CI 888 drive producing 188 hp. Top end around 50. Later they used a 260 hp V8; should run around 60 mph. Anyone else have these? (CVX 18) They are very nice. I saw Eric Michael's from Oregon. I think he sold it.
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friscoboater is on classicglastron (a bit), mostly iboats.com, youtube & facebook.
He's rebuilt 3 boats, an '80s Glastron, a SeaRay, and now the CVX-18 is his latest project. He documents everything, including his mistakes (buying the Sea Ray thinking it was perfect, then finding out it was a disaster).
Very good way to learn.
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too my knowledge Frisco Boater is a guy that restores boats and post videos of him doing just that on Youtube.
there are a few CVX-18 owners on here. The ones that I can recall are still_fishin(tim), fireman24mn(shawn), and carlsoncvx18(Jeff)
Then you have the CVZ-18s which are very similar other than they have an open bow. dorsle(Doran) and myself(Brandon)
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You can add me to your list of CVX18 owners.
(http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/glastronjohn18/CVX18/CVX18%20day%201/IMG_1507sm_zpsfe7b1743-1_zpsde5e8af8.jpg)
p.s. how do you resize these pics in photobucket? I've tried the edit button but can't seem to get these pics any smaller.
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John, from my experience no matter how you resize them photobucket will size it itself when you use the copy link to post them.
BTW, nice looking CVX-18 looks to be faded about the same as my CVZ
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I have watched most of friscoboaters videos. I'll go with his cradle design, looks easy to reset the struts and rails for the JetFlight later. gcarlover, you can see Frisco all over the place. Go to youtube and put friscoboater in the search bar. Same thing with iboat and, he has a website friscoboater.com I like watching his stuff but he talks so much you have to FF to get to the meat of the video. The info is good but I feel better blending it with input from you guys.
Crebb
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Hey John, what's behind the CVX there? Looks just like a 1988 Wellcraft I used to have. I sold it to a guy from Chicago. Here's a pix:
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Well, I'm into the nuts and bolts of it now and I need your input again. Decided to modify the trailer for support of the hull after the cap is off. Got a plan for another set of rails on the outboard chines and extending the short ones on the inner run. The keel is not touching the rollers now anyway and the trailer is easy to move around and the height is easy to work on. Also gives pretty good access to the bottom as things go on. Got the gas tank all disconnected and cut the thin glass on three struts supporting the bow deck. Rub rails all off and she's all loose except the transom. ??? there is a lot of glass connecting the lid to the hull at the transom, more than I was thinking. What do I do here? Do I really cut the cap off the Transom? I don't see any other way. Then there is about 6" of the splash well glassed right to the transom. This looks like a challenge. I started with my occilating tool but that ain't going nowhere, worked great on the thin glass of the deck supports. Have a roto-zip but didn't try it yet. I don't have a grinder, am I getting one? If so, what is the wheel of choice for cutting fiberglass. Here's some pix which I know you have all seen before.
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on my GT150 the back of the splashwell was cut out when i got it (PO started the restoration)
i remade that that part with several layers of biax, but mine was painted so its not as hard to fix as gel with flake.
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Hey John, what's behind the CVX there? Looks just like a 1988 Wellcraft I used to have. I sold it to a guy from Chicago. Here's a pix:
Crebb, you're close it's a '86 260 aft cabin that belongs to a guy I work with. Did new engine bunks and another 350. Old one had several cracks in the block. Boat was from Virginia Beach.
Brandon, thanks for the heads up on photobucket. I kept thinking I was doing something wrong. As for the faded flake I'm not sure what I'll do with it yet. There is a hole and a cracked spot in the deck where the boat investigated the underside of a dock for the PO. I know the repair won't match up to the rest of the finish if I try to rub it out.
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No work on the carlson tonight, had to do my real job. We got about 5" of heavy wet snow last night and then started raining and going to be 40 deg tomorrow. Spent the night on the tractor scraping all the parking lots before "mushville". But, had time to think about the issues. Now that I have the deck ready to come off realized it has to stay on till I get the floor done to keep hull shape. So, I will put the screws back in and get busy on the floor I guess. You guys got any tricks for getting the carpet off the floor? I think I'll try the Rockwell vibrator tool with a smooth blade. Sure to be back with more questions. This gives time to figure out how to cut that splashwell loose from the deck. I just can't figure this out without trashing this beautiful glass in the splashwell area. I could cut the top of the transom off and cover it with aluminum c-channel but that doesn't get me very far with about 6" of the back wall of the splashwell glassed to the transom. I looked through some of the archived threads to se if I could find something on this. All outboards with this design of splashwell would have this problem. Maybe it's simpler than I am making it but I looked at a 79' CVX16 a few weeks ago that had the transom replaced and they just cut the whole back of the splashwell out and redid the glass and gelcoat with white. It looks like??? something that would not be acceptable. I came up with a grinder so I bought 2 thicknesses of masonry cutoff wheels for it. Is that right?
Thanks
Crebb
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Crebb, it may take a little longer - and a few extra blades - but the oscillating tool would be the way to go with the separation of the splashwell from the transom IMHO. It will do a lot less damage to the deck, and make a lot less of a mess. On the underside keep the (half moon) blade parallel with the transom and flat against it, work slowly all the way around the "U". (Third pic above). It should only be sealed along the edge. Up on the top of the transom, I'd work the (plunge cut) blade in under the glass lip of the deck - side by side plunge cuts until you've made your way across. Helpful hint: mark the blade with the maximum depth you want to cut with tape on the blade so you don't cut into the back wall of the splashwell.
You can do the same thing with a grinder and cutoff wheel, but chance for error is much greater since it removes material much faster! It also creates a cloud of fiberglass dust that makes it hard to see what you're doing. I don't have any experience with the roto-zip tool, you might check with Rich (nat'l site and comes by here once in a while) who has one. Hope This Helps, wish I were closer to come over and give you a hand!
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Thanks Mark, your description is very helpful. Now after spending some time under there I get how to cut it off. Been out of town all last week so just got a chance to play again today. Got the floor out up to the front bulkhead. I can't believe how rotten this thing was / is. Boat lost a lot of weight today. There was not one square inch of floor that was not rotten, just soaking wet and been in a heated garage since Sept. When I cut the first section of floor out there was 2" of water still in the bottom, foam soaking wet. What a mess. Anyway, got the floor out today and got some questions, as usual. This boat just has one stringer down the center, the outboard edges of the floor sit on the chines. How can I replace this stringer all the way up under the front deck without taking the deck off? Do it in two sections? How do you splice it? Can't get that front bulkhead out of the way and the gas tank without taking the deck off. Plus the bulkhead is helping to hold the shape of the hull while the floor is out. Sure would be easier to pull the deck and do all the glass work at once. But, everything I see says not to take the floor and the deck out at the same time. Here's some pictures I hope. Always have trouble posting them.
Thanks,
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I'm with you on pullin' the deck ...
BUT ...
It's the only way to do it right !
You could put 2x4 braces from side to side to help hold shape.
Could you take some picture of your C500 emblem on your dash ?
Have had people ask about it over the years.
Think you could send the HI RES. shots to my email ?
It's in my profile.
Many Thanks ...
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Could you take some picture of your C500 emblem on your dash?
Yes! Purty please ...? (Mine's shot.)
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I sent you guys the pix of the C-500 dash today, hope they are ok. I took your advice and going to yank the lid off and do all the glass work together. Built the cradle the last two nights and popped it in there last night. Just have one set of bunks to start and next I will custom fit another set right at the outside edges of the hull bottom to hold it tighter before any more disassembly. Am I on the right track here? I foolishly pulled the straps out from under it that I used to lift it. Guess I'll put them back after the deck is off and it will be lighter. I'll need to order some fiberglass materials soon. Where to go? there is no place to buy this stuff in my little town. Fiberglasssite.com, Fiberglassuply.com, uscomposites.com and suggestions?
Thanks.
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I love your Glastron Cave!
Express Composites in MPLS is where most of us get out fiberglass and gelcoat stuff and we all can't say enough good things about those guys. They ship too.
http://www.expresscomposites.com/ (http://www.expresscomposites.com/)
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The "Glastron Cave" is a double edged sword. It is one of my warehouse units that I have not been able to rent for the last two years. The water for everything goes through it so I have to heat it anyway. This winter I thought the surest way to get a tenant would be to put my stuff in there and start a project and someone would come along and put me out. Still waiting and sure loving the space, could get kicked to the curb anytime, bring it. I am coming to Minneapolis Monday to babysit my granddaughter for the week. I could pick up some fiberglass stuff and save the shipping. The thing is, I have never touched fiberglass and don't know what to get. Sorry to keep leaning on you guys but ????? I can reciprocate with some advice on other stuff. I am a licensed Master Plumber and Mechanical Contractor and Builder and class B Boiler Installer. So if anyone has any questions about any of that, I can help. You have all sure been nice to me. Thanks
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I am not sure what you need but the nice thing about Express Composits is that they know what you need. You can call them ahead of time, explain your project, and if you need to make measurements or and thing ahead of time you will be set to go. I think they close at 5 during the week.
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I'll give them a call and tell them what I am doing. Is this the place that has a discount if you are a member of this group?
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Not that I am aware of. But mention the group. They should know who we are and will go the extra mile for you.
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I don't think your color is Stratus Blue. It looks more like the 80 color Laser Blue. Our dealer had one when I ordered my 1980 Persian Orange. I haven't seen the Stratus Blue. How about it Gregg? That sure looks like a Looper to me. You haven't told us what your motor is. Also extending the middle chines is a very good idea. They need to flare out toward the inside to make them as big as possible. That would give you a slight hook to keep the heavy engine from porpoising. . Use poly trim boards tapered on a table saw. I've got some fiberboard I'm going to use on my Pipestone fishing boat as soon as it warms up. If there's any way to modify the pad you might be able to improve performance. I think Art Carlson shortened them to prevent cavitation on the turn. But since cupped props are prevalent now it's not a problem. Tom Brown may be able to help. I guess his pics were on Carlson Speed when the site went bad because I can't find them anymore.
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Should be Stratus Blue ... Maybe ?
Is it an Evinrude 115 Curt ?
Got the C500 dash decals ...
Thank you Sir !
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Well, I'm in Minneapolis this week and yesterday was my only chance to go to Express Composites. (talked you guys up there) My son took me over there and I got me a lesson in fiberglass all right. That guy put out so much information in 40 minutes I should have recorded it. Wonder if these fancy phones do that? They were ready to pack me up a big box but I flew here this time. I will be back 2nd week of march with a car. Although it's my wifes car so she ain't going to like that smelly stuff in there. Anyway, I'll pick it up then.
As for your last couple questions, the engine is a 120 Evinrude. Friend that is a certified omc and merc mechanic said the big OMC V-4s (110-115-120) are all the same with different jetting, I don't know but it says Evinrude 120 on it. The color I would differ to you guys. The only way I would know the difference is to see a sample of both together. I've looked at the postings of the brochures for that year but I can't tell. I could take a close pix of the area that was covered by the seat? Are you thinking maybe it's an 80 and not an 81? Is that when the blue changed? Not sure I understand the idea of extending the middle chines. You mean beef them up from the inside to make the hull stiffer? I have installed tons of the poly trim boards (Azek) on things and never considered it very stiff. Certainly interested in your ideas but I don't think I'm understanding this.I would not be comfortable cutting into the hull to change the geometery, especially my first run at this. Next I will be taking the lid off and the gas tank etc to get the rotten center stringer out. What do you suggest to make a new one out of. I've seen everything from treated 2 x 4s to laminated 1 x 4s and strips of marine plywood ripped down and glued together. BTY, I can't say enough good about the rockwell sonicrafter thing. nice straight lines and almost no dust.
Thanks
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It doesn't smell. It's all in sealed cans.
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1980 was the only year for the C500.
If ya get the flake really SHINEIN' ... no one will care what color it is !
... LOL
Don't use treated ... resin will NOT stick to it !
Do some reading on CGOA ... Then weigh out the options ...
PLEASE DON'T ASK " What wood should I use ? "
...LOL
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Gregg ... didn't you have an entire thread asking about wood? Or was it asking about fiberglass and all your responses were about the wood?
Definitely follow Gregg's advice - no treated. The moisture content is far too high. Use the best of what your budget allows - but always a "prime" or "A" grade material - it will be the flattest & straightest cuts, with less opportunity for warping or twisting. If you go with a hardwood, get one with a fairly open grain (like oak). I didn't like the weight, so I used cabinet grade pine. You likely don't need anything wider than 1x material, or 3/4".
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I agree with Dan, get the highest grade possible. The less Knots and voids the better, it means more strength and durability over the long run.
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I'll try one more time, but I'm sure some people don't listen, or don't believe me, or don't care, or have so much money it doesn't matter. Use standard grade exterior grade plywood. If you have voids on the surface you can bondo them over. Cut to fit and give both sides a coat or two, of resin and acetone 50/50 with enough MEKP for that amount, Anything more is just a waste of money and is no stronger. Cabinet grade is INTERIOR GRADE and should never be used (even if Red does it). The strength is in the fiberglass, not the plywood. Stop trying to re-engineer things. It worked for 30 years without being taken care of. It will last forever if you take care of it. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket give it to a food shelf.
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PLEASE DON'T ASK " What wood should I use ? "
:D
I was waiting on that
The common WBP glues are melamine glue and phenolic glue . Generally speaking, WBP(ordinary melamine) plywood can be in boiling water for 4-8 hours without delamination and WBP(better melamine) plywood can be in boiling water for over 10 hours or even 20 hours without delamination . WBP (phenolic) plywood can be in boiling water for 24-72 hours without delamination . The best WBP(phenolic) glue can be regarded as permanent adhesives .But the water boiled proof period of plywood is depended on not only the quality of WBP glue, but also the craftsmanship of production Usually , people like use WBP glue for exterior plywood , such as Marine plywood, film faced plywood (formwork plywood), structural plywood, plywood for signs and so on . But in practice, WBP glue is used for interior plywood as well, such as furniture plywood, cabinet plywood, plywood underlayment and so on , which are also required by customers to have water-boiled-proof(WBP) property.
I'm not going to put any of my boats into boiling water for 8 hours, just sealing them up to where water can't get to the wood give's me piece of mind
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My selection of cabinet grade wood is based on the idea that cabinet grade pieces are generally milled to a higher/tighter tolerance. Depending on the supplier, cabinet grade pieces can already be planed for a long, true board.
If the strength were in the fiberglass, what's with all us yahoos ripping our cool boats apart to replace rotted wood?
Now, that question asked, there is significant strength in the glass, but the boats were designed and built with both - probably meaning that both were necessary from a structural standpoint for safety and longevity of the hull. I'm not a marine engineer or naval architect, but I value the opinions and experience of the other members on this forum. The information you'll find here is priceless.
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I used exterior grade plywood and sealed it in resin & fiberglass. It passed the 'Bruce' test and will last my lifetime, those were the only 2 requirements I had.
:D
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I'll stick with higher quality wood with no voids, surface defects and core voids. The exterior grade available to me is crap. Not straight. Flimsy. I don't want to save $10 - $20 a sheet and have to sit there and bondo and sand voids, etc. just to get an ok sheet of wood.
I'd much rather start with a more sound and quality piece of wood and avoid all the extra work to try to make a sheet of exterior ply usable. And I still make my donation to two food banks near me.
One thing I did learn about poly vs. Epoxy resins. If water sits on poly for an extended period it will leak through to the wood.
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1980 was the only year for the C500.
Think you mean 1981 Gregg ...?
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WHOOPS ...
1981 ...
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WHOOPS ...
1981 ...
You are forgiven. Just don't let it happen again ...
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I even looked at the brochures to make sure ...
Must have been a keyboard error !
Thanks Doug ... won't happen again ...
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The lid came off today. Cutting the tabbing on the wings that stick out either side of the transom was just impossible. So, I cut everything I could and then lifted up the front until there was a big CRACK. I was pretty sure the transom was rotten enough to let go without hurting anything but was not sure if the wing tabbing would crack any gel or surface. No problem, it all let go. Next I guess I go at the center stringer. Here are some pix I hope.
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Good job cracking it open. Like the shop and the JD.
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Nice job Crebb. I agree with Barb, nice shop! The John Deere though I am a little iffy on. I am more of a RED man, of course I should be I work for a Case IH dealer. But hey green, red, yellow, blue or orange they all do the same work:-)
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I would suggest fir for the main stringer which should be knot free and stronger. Get at a yard possibly 2x6. You can try some 1" or 2" poly trim(white). They have it at Menards. Don't know the strength but it's very light. Fiber board (white) is very heavy.
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Stringers can be made of 1/2" plywood. They can be made to any length and laminated to be stronger than any single piece of wood, at less cost. The strength is in the fiberglass that covers it.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/317.jpg)
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Hello, been out of town since Thursday. Jerry's pix of the laminated stringer is very helpful, thanks. I'm sold on the laminated plywood idea, I can see it's lots stronger and lighter and I can make from the same plywood sheets used for the floor and not have to order some fir and pray it shows up. Little town here, can't just go get what you want. Would I build that up and then coat it or coat each layer as building it up? Also, I've seen some pix of the stringers dug out of the glass tabbing for a new piece to be put in and I've seen some of you cut out the whole tabbing/webbing and start over. ???. Picked at the transom a little tonight to see whats going to play out. Got some questions but I need to post some pix to show my idea and see what you guys think about it. Hope to have it up in a couple days. My wife and I are headed to Minneapolis again this Sunday for a week (with a car) so will be bringing the fiberglass supplies back. Hope they don't stink up Sue's car too bad. Sure stinks in the Express Composites warehouse. My son who took me there last month was saying "You think you're putting this stinking #$%t in Mom's car?
Back later, Crebb
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It won't smell at all.
I've got two gallons at home inside a closet - nobody knows it's there. - until you open it. Don't do fiberglass in the basement. Or weld, either....
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My wife and I are headed to Minneapolis again this Sunday for a week (with a car) .
Be sure to post something in the 'Meets' thread if you want to try to get a group together
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In Minneapolis this week and today is my opportunity to go to Express Composites for my stuff. Heading there this morning and hope I have enough money. Here I got a great lesson on what happens when you look up for a second, *Censored *! More stuff to buy at express.
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If you haven't picked up your plywood Menard's latest ad shows marine 1/2" laminated fir around $49.
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That's a good price for marine ply. Standard exterior ply by me is $27 a sheet. Can of bondo is $12. We just did a project with 30 sheets of exterior ply. We found over 30 interior voids when screwing it down. Pitiful.
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Finally back at it this weekend. I think all the grinding is done, unless someone sees something I missed. I got about 9 hours in grinding and the shop looked like a snow storm came inside. Vacuumed for 4 hours today and still more clean up to go. Next boat I'll use a tent with some kind of blower. I knew this was going to be a mess but didn't have much choice, still in the 20's and 30's here. Looking forward to getting the plywood and putting things together instead of cutting them up. The stringer came out in one piece so I have a nice pattern. Also cut the foam around the transom corners so I can wrap the new in. Look ok?
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Looks good!
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Nice work.
I did mine outside, in May. Set up the leaf blow on an A-frame ladder and got started ... let that leaf blower push all my airborne dust to the neighbors house. :D
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Thanks, going plywood shopping after work today, can't wait to start on the fun part. I like the idea of grinding outside but didn't want to wait till May to get started. Next time a visqueen tent with some kind of inline blower hooked to flexy dryer vent hose could be something to try. Thedueceman had something like that I saw somewhere. Still have several hours vacuuming to go.
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Maybe it's just an illusion but it looks to me like your motor was off-center towards starboard?
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Must be an optical delusion like Ole Red had on his side boards in his last post. I checked it tonight and it's dead center. Got the plywood tonight and it was only $33 a sheet. One side perfect and the other side not so. I hope coating with resin will seal it up. Like Hyper says, whatever we do is 10 times better than the slap job the mfg did. Two more hours vacuuming tonight. I will not do fibergrinding this way again. I planned on a big clean up but this clean up getting as old as the grinding.
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Grindin' glass is a mess !
Your makin' good progress ...
Next time your in town, come over and kick me in the hind end to get me started on mine ... LOL
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Just got to looking at the top deck up under the splashwell to see how thick the new transom needs to be. There is this yellow stuff that was used for a filler I guess. Looks like resin but it's yellow and hard as a rock. It's irregular thickness but mostly 1/4 inch thick. I guess the grinding is not over unless it pops off with a chisel. The lid is on a trailer and it's getting into the high 30's here now so this will be done outside.
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My GT has similar stuff, it was light green/gray, vary hard...
not sure if i needed to but i ground it all off
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Ya that's the dreaded goo. I wound up having to grind it off the back of the splashwell. New transom was just a lil too thick, didn't account extra for the biax ...
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Good to know. Might as well get rid of it before its in the way. Got other problems now. The new stringer i made from 3 layers of 1/2" ply has a bow in it. I glued and screwed it on my cement floor and didnt think of the floor not being perfectly flat. Turned it over and put weights on it overnight to straighten it. Just checked it, didnt work, still has a bow. I hope i don't have to make another one. Any ideas?
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Made a new stringer tonight from a 2 x 6. Took a while at the lumber yard to find a straight one. Cut and find tuned it, fits good. Made the main piece of floor and a pattern for the transom too. Then started on the filler on the back of the splashwell. Got most of it off with a hammer and chisel, make a lot less mess. I'm thinking the transom should be 13/4 inches but interested in you experience. Doug has the same boat, not sure where he's at with the his rehab.
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NICE !
Looks like you'll be done before me, so can I have a ride ?
... LOL
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Mine's not quite as far along, but it ain't dead yet ...
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Crebb -
If you're going to change the thickness of your transom, make sure your splashwell on the deck will clear the new thickness. When I did mine, the old splashwell was ripped clean off the deck - long story ... since I was building a new splash well, I figured I'd do the transom a tad thicker.
I used an 11-ply 3/4" thick oak veneer plywood, a layer of chopped strand mat and plenty of resin on either side, a layer of 3-ply (plus veneer layers) oak plywood on either side, too... that was an inch and three quarters in wood only, plus maybe another 1/8" in the mat/resin layers.
Had also made a grid 4" on center - side to side & top to bottom. Dry fit my three pieces together & pre-drilled/countersunk holes. Worked psycho fast to keep wet resin between the layers and used something like 26 stainless screws to hold the pieces together. There's a top layer of glass that covers up the screws & I had to work the pattern so that none of my mounting bolt holes were in the way. All of this was done "extra large" ... meaning that my transom pieces were traced out, but cut larger - once everything had cured into a big solid block, I fired up the saw with a new blade and cut the shape needed as one piece ... made for nice, clean edges.
Lots of resin and chopped strand mat between the hull transom & my structure - screwed down tight with big fender washers ... had small holes to fill, but it squished any air out and made a good bond. Then, when I set the deck down, I had no splash well, so I layed up the fiberglass over the new transom. I think the total thickness increase was close to 1/2 inch ... certainly more than necessary, but without the deck down and the screws & washers removed, grabbing the new transom and giving a shake moved the whole damn trailer. It was solid. Only time will tell if my work was done well enough to last.
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Doug, I took them seat blocks out, am I gonna be sorry? Looks like I'm getting ahead of you but as soon as spring gets here (19 deg this morning) I have to rebuild my buckled deck and then it will be summer and it just goes by in a flash. I don't see this boat hitting water this summer. Fun to work on but the party just about over till fall. 'course then it's time for hunting which takes front burner.
Dan, On the same track as you. My splashwell will dictate thickness. Careful measurement puts it at 1 3/4 max. I'm thinking 3 sheets of 1/2" ply with chopped mat between and then a wrap of woven over it to the back and floor. This is what Tomas at Express Composite suggested. The last wrap of woven may be too thick for the splashwell but then I thought about making the upper 1/2 thinner, like stepped down just enough to get the top back on. Maybe just have the woven wrap on the lower half as the splashwell adds a lot of strength on the upper half. Does this make any sense? I like your idea of making the transom bigger and then cutting it down. I will do that and the info comes just in time, thank you.
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I am Jealous of only having one or 2 stringers. And a floor out of one sheet of ply I am on 3 1/2 sheets of ply just between stringers and transom and have not even begun the deck or seating. Anyways keep up the good work.
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.......... I like your idea of making the transom bigger and then cutting it down. I will do that and the info comes just in time, thank you.
I did that, just ground down the part where the splashwell hit, and then layed a couple layers of biax over it where I had ground it down - worked out fine. I'm just sayin' ...... :)
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Don't be jealous Fireman, just means your boat is a lot better built. You look at one of these 16 footers skinned out and there ain't much holding everything together. I left the gas tank shelf in so the sides wouldn't just flop on the floor. Been thinking of putting a cross member across the front side of those floatation bunks up high to give it more spine. I know the front of the splashwell give support but this would be glassed in tight.
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I am Jealous of only having one or 2 stringers
Yeah but you got a bigger cooler boat ...
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Always a fun surprise with this game. Check out this fine plywood I bought. Over the last few days it has taken on the shape of a potato chip. I put the precut transom pieces under about 300 pounds for 24 hours. No change. Checked some wood working forums and there are as many explainations and proposed fixes as there are posts. The guy that seems to have the most experience says you cannot flatten it again, period. And the way to avoid it is to buy better grade of plywood. Anyway you look at it I'm out $70.
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That's no fun ... did you leave it leaning against a wall? When I lived in Texas, I had a "rack" that I built from 2x4's that was angled, with thick plastic on the bottom (for sliding ease). This way I could store my sheet woods vertically, but they would be supported across the full width and length. Sometimes just their own weight is enough to make them sag when the only contact points are the ground and the top edge against the wall.
The only way that piece will be straight is to screw it to something that is.
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Bummer, what kind pf PLY is it ?
seems even the best stuff warps some, i use that high ply count cabinet stuff for most things that need to be straight, like speakers, furniture and on the boats. have had good luck with it.
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Mostly my own fault I'm sure. It was froze from the unheated building at the lumberyard so I laid it flat to aclimate in the shop. The next day it was in the way so I leaned it up against the wall and forgot about it over night. Today I will start over and pay more attention. At least I have patterns for everything.
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I guess I'm recovered from the warped plywood. This time I got 3/4" for the floor and did a better job cutting it to fit much tighter. Finally opened the resin today and coated the floor and stringer. Tomorrow I hope to install and glass in the stringer and maybe even the floor. That would be huge.
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As for reply #65 your certified people are wrong 110 and 115 are cross flows The Looper 120 came out in 85 and improved in 86-87 with a small lower unit, different reeds. I had a 120, it ran good top end but not good at idle. They used to make resin impregnated 5/8 plywood. I put 1/4 x 4" aluminum inside the splash well.
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Made some tracks this weekend. The stringer is bedded and all tabbed in and the new floor is set and puttyed around the edges. I also built up the new transom while waiting for the resin to cure. Forgot to take a pix of my "transom press", try to remember tonight. Plan to glass the floor tonight and with that much resin surface exposed it will put me out of there for sure. Much thanks to all of you for the guidance and support. I never would have had a clue about tearing one of these apart and certainly knew nothing about fiberglassing. Seem to go pretty good for me. Just had one batch get hot and jello up on me, most of it I just mixed up less than I thought I could use in 1/2 hour. I had no intention of this boat seeing water this summer but starting to look like a possibility. The crappy weather here is why. As soon as it gets nice I got a buggered deck to replace. Raining and 30 deg again today so back to the boat shop after work.
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Crebb - I never considered a foam kneeler when I did mine, could have made it much more comfortable. You're doing your glass work in the right weather ... I didn't know how much mine needed until May 1, so I had 30 days to tear it down and build it up to be ready for Rathbun last year. Spring came early and I don't have a garage. In the sunlight, and heat of day, I'd get 10-15 minutes working time before I got jello. Keep up the good work. This group is amazing for knowledge and inspiration.
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I'm gonna have to get my butt in gear to keep up with you !
... LOL
Excellent work !
Your at the FUN part now ...
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This week I installed the transom, the bilge sump, the back part of the floor and the knees you all suggested. Got company all this weekend so I have not worked on the boat but been thinking on the next step. Got a question. I was planning on pour foam in the belly but this boat only has the two bilge sections with one stringer. I see others with multiple stringer floors put foam in the outboard hollows and leave the center clear for water to run through. If I foam these there will be no way for any water to get to the back. I was thinking of putting some pvc pipe with holes drilled in it along the sides of the stringer to pick up any water and take it to the back sump. Maybe this is stupid? Unnecessary? I better figure it out pretty soon 'cause I'm ready to glass the floor next and if it needs foam first I don't even have the foam yet.
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I haven't put foam in mine - it won't be difficult for me to pull the carpet, drill a few 4 inch holes along each side of the keel stringer and pour it in (at least I don't think it will be ... I'd love to have a way to pump it in - maybe through a bigger diameter vinyl tubing so I can push that tube to the back and pump it through, working the tube forward as I go.) I still wonder at how water gets below the floor. If the hull is solid, and the floor goes down, resin coated on the bottom, resin and fiberglass across the top ... I just can't figure out how it happens. We all know it does, or we wouldn't be re-building. Somewhere on this forum is a picture of a guy who layed down a ton of "noodle" pool toys. It's certainly closed cell, and they lay parallel to the stringers, so any water should be able to follow the "void" path where those cylindrical noodles were stacked up.
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Dan, that was on the national site, a V-178 Starflight in the South east area of the country.
Oh and on the foam if you are thinking of putting it in do it while the stringers are exposed. I am currently doing it in Phoenix Rising and I would have broke the floor under the bow on both sides of the center stringer. Its expansion rate is very great. Heck, even the residue left in the 32oz mixing cups I am using was enough to expand and fill up the mixing cup.
Pour it in, let it rise, and then cut it off flush with the top of the stringers.
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Brandon, I can put in several 1 inch holes so that it can expand through the vent.
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I thougbt of those swim noodles after my post. I saw that thread you are talking about. I was thinking that was not kosher but the more i think of it: they cant blow my floor apart, lots cheaper than foam kit, no mess, the water can flow around them, sure adds floation. And I can just go buy them instead of paying freight and waiting to keep moving. I just sold myself on the idea.
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I was on the fence about Foam as well. My biggest debate was how much foam does it take to keep the boat from sinking to the bottom of the lake as this is the point of it correct? If you can not get enough in the floor to keep it afloat. Why put it in, was my thought. A few people have also said the the pour in foam makes the boat ride a lot quieter. I am going to be putting it in my floor for the quieter ride. Not sure if there will be enough to keep it afloat but hopefully I will never need to find out.
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Shawn, I'm right there with you. If I'm taking on so much water that the boat is going to sink - let it sink. That's why we keep life jackets on board. I do want the quiet ride, though. I've looked at the product Red uses. I'm not sure, though, that I could move quickly enough to get the foam in place. It would be nice if the reaction to the 2-part mix were activated by air, so you could mix in a vacuum, then apply and have it expand once it's exposed to air.
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There's pictures in the brochures of flotation tests with four or five people in a boat and it's still above the water .
We all know the little bit of foam Glastron put in, a few long blocks in hull, some glassed to bottom of deck and the rear flotation boxes.
If you were to fill all openings in your hull with foam and kept foam blocks under deck you should be fine.
Pretty sure it was Rich and a few others that put swim noodles in hull.
I cut off a small piece of a noodle and put it in a cup with gas, it was still OK after a few hours.
Don't know how it would hold up after days or weeks ... BUT will be OK for a short time.
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That's what bilge pumps are for.
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Some more on the pour in foam. I actually stood on the stuff I put in yesterday ( on accident btw) and it did not even move. Might be some added structual benefits with it also. I did also notice that yesterday with the whole floor removed the bow would twist really easily. But today with what little foam I have in the hull the bow was a lot more rigid.
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I don't know what I was thinking with the noodles. It's too late for that, I have already installed all the floor. Not glassed yet but the edges are all puttied in and it ain't coming out. I will email Tomas at Express today and have him ship some pour foam. I need some other stuff anyway. I like the idea of more structure and quieter too.
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I believe an "air box" is as good as foam. My FireFlite was tied up to a dock a couple years back in a rain storm, make that a heavy rain storm. With a 15" transom it didn't take much rain until it was under water. The front flotation box kept it up until we could drag it to shore. That's when I started putting bilge pumps in all my boats. Mow, having said that, older mold built boats (as opposed to newer composite cookie cutters) can have hull flex that can keep them from handling right, and getting on plane. My GT160 that Red foamed is like a rock. It still has a bilge pump, but I'm glad it has foam.
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Crebb, Jerry's right about air in the open chamber. It's already flotation if it's air tight. You should have two plugs in the back crescent area. The only way foam helps is if it's displaced by water in the lower floor. You still need foam in the corners. I've seen these Carlsons sitting on a trailer in the rain full of water. It eventually seeps through if the wood gets wet.
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The problem with air tight flotation boxes is 3 fold:
1 - Condensation - Such a large volume of air will lead to condensation, ie...a small amount of water sitting in them. (I agree its probably not major.)
2 - Any crack, any intrusion that allows any air, and that space is useless.
3 - The hollow structure makes for a noisy ride. Its an amazing difference...I've had both kinds.
I've had both, and I'd never not have foam in the floor again if only for that fact. Its quieter, the floor is much more solid, and should something catastrophic happen, a foam filled box will still help float the boat.
An 'air box' boat...that boat becomes the Titanic.
In the interest of full disclosure I did foam my floor, but I did not put in the large rear foam boxes. I wanted the rear storage over the floating lifeboat that manufacturers are required to engineer into the boat.
At this point, I'd recommend watching Friscoboater's youtube video on how he foamed his floor...he does it after the floor is installed, just like where you're at now.
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Express composites has the two gallon kit (a gallon each of part A & B) for $77
This place has the two gallon kit for $64.75 ... http://www.carbonfiberglass.com/Foam-Core/expanding-foam-ab-2-part-pour (http://www.carbonfiberglass.com/Foam-Core/expanding-foam-ab-2-part-pour)
(Since I am not local to the TC's area **yet**, I have to pay for shipping no matter whom I place an order with)
Just remember on your foam, the lower the density, the higher the cured volume ... the individual parts as a liquid weigh approximately 16 lbs for the two individual gallons (8 lbs each, roughly ... one a little more, one a little less) - a 2 lb. per cubic foot foam yields approximately 8 cubic feet with a two gallon kit - a 4 lb. per cubic foot foam will yield approximately 4 cubic feet ... you're taking the total liquid weight of the parts, dividing by the cured weight of the poured foam per square foot to determine the volume satisfied by expansion.
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Express composites has the two gallon kit (a gallon each of part A & B) for $77
This place has the two gallon kit for $64.75 ... http://www.carbonfiberglass.com/Foam-Core/expanding-foam-ab-2-part-pour (http://www.carbonfiberglass.com/Foam-Core/expanding-foam-ab-2-part-pour)
(Since I am not local to the TC's area **yet**, I have to pay for shipping no matter whom I place an order with)
Just remember on your foam, the lower the density, the higher the cured volume ... the individual parts as a liquid weigh approximately 16 lbs for the two individual gallons (8 lbs each, roughly ... one a little more, one a little less) - a 2 lb. per cubic foot foam yields approximately 8 cubic feet with a two gallon kit - a 4 lb. per cubic foot foam will yield approximately 4 cubic feet ... you're taking the total liquid weight of the parts, dividing by the cured weight of the poured foam per square foot to determine the volume satisfied by expansion.
I would ask Express if they can match it. With how much business they have been getting from us lately we should have a club discount. Wouldn't hurt to ask.
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I foamed my floor after the floor was down. I drilled 1.5" holes every two foot on both sides of the stringer in my cvx. (keep in mind my cvx 16 only has one stringer going down the center the split at the rear for the bilge under the motor oil pan) I started at the front, mixed a batch in a metal coffee can and poured it in the hole using a funnel. I kept pouring more in until I could see the foam was getting to the next hole. Then I moved on to the 3rd hole and poured in till foam came out of the 2nd and made it to the 3rd. I continued this pattern down both sides of the floor. Then I came back the next day cut the foam level over the holes and glasses over the whole floor. I mixed and poured the remaining foam into the rear floatation box areas next to the engine (only filled it about 1/3rd as much as factory). I used the US Composites US coast guard approved mix (I think it was a 2 gal kit). It does beef up the boat quite a bit and give it a quiet ride.
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This input is why I am here. Thanks. I ordered the foam yesterday and it will be here tomorrow. I think it has a short shelf life and I calculated my floor cavities as needing just about 3 cu ft. So the 2 gallon / 8 cu ft kit would do this boat and the JetFlight but since the shelf life, I just ordered 2 one quart kits. I know US Composites is cheaper on a lot of things but the guy at Express was just giving me stuff on my way out the door and I could not go somewhere else to save 10 bucks. Fifty bucks maybe. I have seen Frisc'os video on the foaming. I'm going to do just that following Kert's pattern. Seems like that plan is best to get it all distributed and reduce the chance of blowing the floor out. Did you hold a board over the hole like Frisco? I was thinking duct tape. Got to move pretty fast with a 45 sec cure time. I built a square sump at the back big enough for a standard bilge pump with a half moon cut out about the size of a nickle on each side of the single stringer. That should drain the cavities if/when the water works through the foam. I left the front and back floatation boxes on both sides intact. Just carved out some of the back ones so I could wrap the new transom into the sides. So I will end up with more foam than the factory put in. Which reminds me, I think I did a crappy job of glassing the transom in so I will take some close ups tonight and maybe you guys can give it your blessing or tell me to do it over. Talk ta ya tomorrow.
Thanks,
Crebb
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No, i didn't put anything over the holes, I just let the foam push out if it needed to. It's not hard to cut it flat later to glass over it.
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Hello All, been almost a month since I posted anything. Computer had surgery (hard drive transplant) and other things like work, got in the way. Haven't had time to post but I've been trying to keep up with some of you. I foamed the floor a couple weeks ago and put the lid back on yesterday. Today I glassed the seat bases back in and tabbed the bow deck supports. I think I'm done with glassing. Still need to patch the boo boo's I made in the stern (don't look up at the clock with a grinder in your hands) but I am going to have a friend do that 'cause I think it's beyond my skill set. I see Gregg had the "snowmen" come and give a boost so I'm sure he is close to water now. I think I'm going to have to shove this project in the corner for now, starting to be too many other demands on time. At least with the lid on it only takes the space of one boat instead of two. My daughter was home from school last weekend so we took the Crownline out for a couple hours on the lake. It was 80 and today it's 34 and snowing. I heard you guys are going to get some hot weather this coming week. I'll be coming to Minneapolis on Friday for son's graduation hope we get the hot stuff too. Thanks for everyone's help. Here's some pictures -new floor-gelcoated bilge-new knees at the transom-foam tape going on the deck joint.
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Here's some other stuff may be of interest. I wet sanded under all the deck fittings that were bolted so I wouldn't have to shimmy under to put them on after the deck. And the tow eyes were just backed up by a couple extra pieces of glass and a little piece of wood at the back. 1/2" steel pipe nipple works good to beef up the bow eye and some aluminum plates at the back ones. The top half of the new bulkhead is removable to get to stuff easier and to get the gas tank out if necessary. Hey, I used that 3M 5200 stuff at the deck joint. What a mess, stuff runs like thick paint. How do you get it to stay there. It just ran out on the floor.
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Some times it's good to take a break ...
Hard to put life on hold, while you work on a boat.
It'll get done ...
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Look great. I like that little pipe mod for the bow eye. Keep us posted as you go.
Rich
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The wood for my bow & transom eyes looked very much like the front engine mount on Brandon's rebuild - they crumbled like old bark. I cut everything flush with the hull and used blocks of solid oak 1x6 to fiberglass back in place. At the bow, the 1x6 was beveled to sit down in that "V" - your solution looks to be permanent, with less effort. Nice thinking!
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How are you doing on the Metric? Did you get her into the water yet? I would love to see how she turned out.
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Crebb, check your fuel sender. The get erratic from use, but its an easy change on the 80's. Not so much on the ones with a ski locker. Did you look in to see if the tank is clean? My pontoon(6 gal) tank rusted inside. I was able to get in it because I removed the built in oil reservoir. Vinegar works I heard.
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The C-500 is still in the cradle but putting it on the front burner after this weekend. I can't wait to start on it again and talk to you guys about Carlsons. This winter will be more fun. Build new seat frames, go see the upolsterer, order the new windshield, install the carpet, new wiring to everything. and wet sand wet sand wet sand. I was starting out with 1000 grit but I also ordered some 800. Whadaya think for the first pass? On the test area I did 1000 then 1500 then 3000 and it sure does shine but it's still a little greenish, not sure it's ever going back to blue like Ski Machine's.
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Might be the UV rays or some thing turns flake greenish ...
Tim's Timmi was the same after wet/compound/buffing, still kind of green ...
Good to see your "Back at it " !