Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: thedeuceman on June 13, 2013, 01:01:04 PM
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so far this is what i have seen with the GT-150, 73 115hp Johnson no power trim, trim pin in second hole from transom.
Laurie and i in the boat, 9 to 12 gallons of gas in the bow.
1, unknown ss prop (with a few small nicks), 5600 RPM, 42 MPH GPS
2, 14x19P alum, 4900 RPM, 43 MPH GPS
3, 13x19P alum, 6500 RPM, 41 MPH GPS
these next 2 runs were Friday evening at rathbun, BUT... when i got home i found that the choke detent had fallen apart so that data may be skewed.
4, 13x21P alum, 4800 RPM, 44 MPH GPS
5, 12.75x21 alum, 4800 RPM, 44 MPH GPS
repeated run #5 with new plugs from Jerry same numbers. (orig BU8H, replaced with L77V)
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My CVX 16 with the original 1977 (115) and the original 12 3/4 x 21 SST runs 47 - 48 GPS with two adults and approx. 12 gal of fuel @ 5300 rpms.
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My CVX16 with a 1998 Johnson 115 and a 19" Stainless Steel is at 49mph loaded with 2-3 people onboard...I would invest in a power trim, that way you will get the most speed out of it...
Joe
Nebraska
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6500 RPM?! :o
Seems a bit high, just a bit. I would think doing that would be bad for any length of time but it is an OMC and I'm less familiar with them, then Mercs.
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Leave Laurie at the dock, light load of fuel, trim pin out one more hole ... and shot for 45 mph !
T&T should be good for at least 3 mph, and is priceless for tilting at beach and loading on trailer ! ! !
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A 20" stainless steel Raker would help your top speed. Miles ahead of an aluminum prop. On a Glastron trip, you will have to try mine.
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Gregg... It does have tilt, and 3rd hole did not appear to help any on top speed.
David... Looking forward to it :D
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Just to be clear, we know that "trim" and 'tilt" are 2 different animals, right?
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Just to be clear, we know that "trim" and 'tilt" are 2 different animals, right?
Yep...
The 73 115 I have on the GT is power tilt only, though now I'm looking for another "external trim" like the one I sold :/
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updates...
installed external power trim with a mercruiser pump mounted under splash well just before going to redwing.
trim tab was set full right (starboard) cuz that's where it was when i got the motor.
in redwing with just me and about 12 gal of gas i got 47 GPS @ 5800 with the stainless mystery prop, 49 GPS @ 5200 with Davids 20" raker.
when fully trimmed the torque steer was bad with Mystery prop, unbearable with the 20" raker.
moved the trim tab full left (port) torque steer way better at top speed but it pulls to right at moderate speed (30mph)
tested on the river last night with laurie, 2 dogs, gear, beer, extra props...
mystery prop, trim tab full left 43 GPS @ 5500
removed trim tab, 44GPS
tried alum OMC 14 x 19" , 44 GPS @ 4800
what i take from this is i will be running without the trim tab (will cut one off and fill the hole)
and will see where the mystery prop gets me.
may try Sean's 21" alum props again.
unfortunately Davids 20" raker is not in my budget right now :(
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Your best "Speed secret" is leavening Laurie at the dock ... LOL
Don't tell her I said that ...
At 49 mph are things getting a little light/loose ?
Maybe lift your motor ...
Have you read through this thread ?
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=4613 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=4613)
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Your best "Speed secret" is leavening Laurie at the dock ... LOL
Don't tell her I said that ...
At 49 mph are things getting a little light/loose ?
Maybe lift your motor ...
Have you read through this thread ?
http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=4613 (http://www.classicglastron.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=4613)
Yes... i will be doing lightened up solo runs
it was light but not as bad as i expected, the torque steer was too much but i think i have that fixed (trim tab removal)
need more time to know for sure.
i don't think i can go to 3rd hole with stock steering arrangement.
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Thinking about it, it seems odd that I would lose 4 miles an hour just loading the boat down.
The river was like peas soup, maybe that was slowing me down ;)
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Your best speed will be on the day the lake/river has a light chop, wind at your back of 30 mph and going down stream with strong currant ...
It will only happen once or twice a year ... So take a picture of your GPS when it does ... LOL
I get a 1 or 2 mph difference just from full tank to 1/4 tank ... 18 gal. tank ...
Outboards HATE weight !
EDIT ...
Bay Star will solve your toque steer problem but will run ya $500 plus ...
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49 is impressive! I would think it would get a bit squirrely.
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Ya 49 ain't bad Joe, considering ... When you run these shorter hulls it's amazing how any additional weight will affect yer top end?
Terry Currans scrawny a** slowed me down 2 - 3 mph ...
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I would not remove the trim tab. Streamline it instead. I plan on doing this soon. My trim tab is fully to portside. Plan to remove the end curl on the starboard side and make the front of the fin sharper. Maybe even take some metal off the inside pivital point so that it turns more portside. Have given up on the huge trim tab - slows the motor down too much.
Joe, you will not find a faster prop than a Raker.
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49 is impressive! I would think it would get a bit squirrely.
Each hull is probably a little different, and Joe's weight distribution is more forward than mine, but mine doesn't get really unstable until about 52 or 53 mph, Ross. (Different props make the boat act differently at WOT as well!) The one run I got to 54 mph was "riding the ragged edge". :o
Great to see you're getting her sorted out Joe, they're a small boat but A LOT of fun!
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This is a really fun boat, I really like how it handles an assume that is due to the weight in the front which also slows me down some.
I'm trying not to fixate on top speed, but...
David, I do "want" that prop, just top much other stuff to spend on now, like gas & oil.
In the end I would like to be able to say "it'll do 50"
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Joe, I sent you an e-mail.
David
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Hey Doug, I thought it was the cooler in back that slowed us down. Thought we were going to make it to Florida this year and see you and your new shop. Right now things aren't looking too good though.
Terry
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Hey Doug, I thought it was the cooler in back that slowed us down.
Ya, musta been your prune juice ... Ah well. let's all hope times get a lil better? But I ain't holdin my breath ...
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Just FYI Joe... On my GT150, I put the 2-blade bronze 21p balanced & cupped prop that I got from David on my Merc 85hp and did some GPS speed checks... just me in the boat with a 9 gallon tank in back (maybe 1/2 to 3/4 full?), 2nd hole out from transom (too far out for normal use, it will sometimes porpoise and raises bow way too much out of the hole), I couldn't believe I was getting 48mph! Not sure what rpms it was turning, don't have a tach. I was so happy with that out of an 85hp engine, I'm leaving that on there... in fact about to get a back up prop just like it. The 2-blade is not good for carrying loads though, or pulling skiers out of the hole or when the boat is loaded down (which is not often), but usually it's just me or maybe one other. I think the transom plate I have has raised my motor slightly which is probably helping me. My hull is very stable at 48mph. I don't have to worry about the "ragged edge" like Mark, I won't be going that fast. All I have to avoid is throwing it into one of those steep turns it likes to rock into at too fast a speed :) Sounds like the Raker may be the way to go for you, excellent speed and probably gives you good power out of the hole with family/gear in the boat.
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Mark ...
Your new 2 blade has been lake tested and is good to 51.8 mph on GPS ...
I'm one of the "Prop Master's" certified test pilots.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/66585_DavePropHunter2.jpg) (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/Hyperacme/media/CGOAmn/66585_DavePropHunter2.jpg.html)
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Gregg is my one and only test pilot. He also tested a 22" Hi-Performance Mercury Quicksilver 2-blade bronze prop. The prop hub slipped on Gregg giving him a scare. Took it over to Propulsion Prop in Hudson Wisconsin this morning for rehubbing. Learned that rubber hubs need breaking in. Gentle power both forward and backward for awhile to set the rubber before giving it alot of power.
Talked with the owner Dave at length. He recognized the name Pankonin because he went to Murray HS with my first cousin Janet Pankonin. Dave is trying to retire from his prop repair business, but he probably loves his work too much to do so. They have a computerized balancing machine and tested the Hi-Performance prop. It was good, but Dave said that most Quicksilver SS props are out of balance.
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Mark ...
Your new 2 blade has been lake tested and is good to 51.8 mph on GPS ...
I'm one of the "Prop Master's" certified test pilots.
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p286/Hyperacme/CGOAmn/66585_DavePropHunter2.jpg) (http://s131.photobucket.com/user/Hyperacme/media/CGOAmn/66585_DavePropHunter2.jpg.html)
:) Thanks Gregg, I know it'll be a good one! It will probably never be that shiny again though... haha
Hey, I want to be a Test Pilot... if only I could earn a living doing something like that.
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It not all it's cracked up to be Mark ...
Lots of hard work, Dave and Ross were both bleeding by the end of the testing from cuts from the razor sharp prop blades !
Shawn had to remove his prop and loan us his spacer ...
It's the price we pay for top speed ...
LOL !
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I'm one of the "Prop Master's" certified test pilots.
Ya well don't count yer blessings just yet. I hear he's a harsh taskmaster ...
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Gregg and I have a common rule. If you break it you bought it. LOL. That is why I did not go over 5,300 RPM's on his boat while testing it. Gregg was afraid to drive my boat about two months ago, but I think he would do it now. At WOT, RPM's with a 22" Raker is about 5,300 to 5,400 RPM's, well below the max.
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Gregg, Mark or David. Back in Nebraska it's still around 96 here. I have my modified 2 blade 23 cup on the
CVX now. Running about 54 to 55 at 6000. We gps'd my speedo running about 1/2 under actual mph. Getting a lot of slip. 19-20%. Even at 5000 (44 or 46). Will check again. What is the rpm at 48 on the GT150? 2.3:1 gears on the 85 Merc. When I had my 80 back in the old days there was a guy with the Elephant ear 2 blade on a GT 150. He claimed 55 mph. That was an 80hp Merc. I haven't believed it to this day. I showed prop tests last week on "Just another prop"
How about the 22" HP Bronze? I think you posted them once Gregg.
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GCarlover ...
That was the first test of the 22 HP 2 blade ... Didn't go to well ... Will post results on next outing ...
YA ... 55 MPH seems pretty steep ... Maybe on his speedo it was 55 ..
Doug ...
Pretty glamorous being one of Dave's test pilots ...
I pull in to shore and turn the test mule ( Mule # cv16 ) sideways so Dave can switch props, then start downloading data from on board computer ( my old and sometimes foggy brain ) ...
We have a discussion on the data and decide on next best prop to test ...
Dave hands me a cool drink and go's back to changing the prop, so I have some free time to sign autographs for the kids and all the pretty girls ...
About that time Dave calls me back for more work ...
It's not easy ... But getting you guys the hard prop data you need , make's it all worth while !
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What is the rpm at 48 on the GT150? 2.3:1 gears on the 85 Merc.
Not sure, no tach, but my guess is it's probably a little higher than it needs to be. One of my "to do" items in the future for this rig. On the gear rations... how can I tell?... I think it's all original, can I tell by the serial number, or is there a designation on the side of the lower unit?
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Is your motor a 1977 Mark ?
I could look it up in the service manual ...
The 1974 Merc brochure lists ...
1500 ... 14:28
1150 ... 14:28
850 ... 13:30
650 ... 14:23
The 1971 Merc brochure lists ...
1350 ... 14:25
1150 ... 14:25
800 ... 13:30
650 ... 13:30
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Right, all the 80s and 85s were 2.3:1. They interchange with 115s also which I did, but the guy I sold my motor to tore it out on a heavy IMP. Small tooth gears and more of them caused this. He thought he hit a log. I've got the same prop 13 3/4 x 23 no cup from my 1969 80hp. We put it on a gt160 with a new 71 135 Merc(1.78:1). Ran 52 Speedo @ about 5100. (Two passengers) That's 16.6% slip. It has a Johnson hub in it now. Had to grind down the flange on it. New tests:
54 speedo or 54.5 gps@5900 (19.46% or 18.7% slip) 46@5000 (19%) 36@4000 0-50 w/blowout 14 sec, appx 600 ft.
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Mark, I had a 1971 80 HP Merc on the V-153 when I bought it new. Ran the 2-blade bronze props (not cupped) and went 44 MPH probably at 5,300 RPM's. The 80 HP Merc had 2.3 gears (30/13) in it just like yours. I suspect you are turning 5,700 RPM's in the GT150. Just make sure you have good gas and oil and do not go full throttle for long periods of time.
On the CVX-16 with a Raker 22", at 55.0 MPH the RPM's are 5,450. With a 20" Raker, the RPM's are up to 5,700, but the speed is down from the 22" Raker's.
GCarlson, I suspect that your 23" bronze prop is less than 23". A prop shop could tell you the true pitch by measuring it. I wondered about the pitch of some Mercury props years ago and called Allen Tucker at Supreme Marine. He had charts that told the true pitch (lower than indicated) if you told him the part number of the prop.
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I suspect you are turning 5,700 RPM's in the GT150. Just make sure you have good gas and oil and do not go full throttle for long periods of time.
Gregg, yea the 85hp is a 1977... original to this boat.
Copy that David, thanks! It's screaming pretty good at WOT (you can hear it in that recent video I posted "GT150 Sunrise Run" on CGOA, about 1/2 way through the video there are a few spots where I'm WOT)... I always run a little extra oil in the gas, probably closer to 40:1 than 50:1. I'll probably try to install a small tach this winter... just want to do an "under dash" or on throttle control support or something like that, don't want to cut into the untouched dash. Can I have that bronze prop "cupped" a little more to help with the rpms?... performance effect in doing so?
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Tiny-Tach
http://tinytach.com/gasoline.php (http://tinytach.com/gasoline.php)
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Quote from Mark "Can I have that bronze prop "cupped" a little more to help with the rpms?... performance effect in doing so?"
Propulsion Prop in Hudson, WI cupped that new at the time prop and drilled vent holes. The cupping is more than another 21" 2-blade bronze prop I bought new off e-bay with factory cupping in it.
If you want, I could ask Dave, the owner of Propulsion Prop if they can add pitch by adding more cupping, and the cost to do so.
Picture of the cupping as it stands now.
Mark, the prop will be polished before shipment.
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Thanks David, yes please ask him for me.
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Has the bronze prop been tried before and after the vents were drilled. Still having a lot of blow out. It didn't use to do that. Will check the hub again. It's marked. Gregg, are the small tach's adjustable for 2 stroke and number of cylinders? I have one on my 1 cylinder 4 stroke garden tractor from Northern Hydraulics. Don't see a setting. You just wrap the coil wire and hot to the ignition.
On another note, I think the tachs before about 1978 were T-bolt ignition driven; the later alternator rectifier driven. That's what I had on my 1970.
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Tiny Tach:
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GCarlover ...
Thought about getting one (Tiny Tach) for my 1971 Merc 65 HP motor, years ago.
Emailed them and they responded with in an hour with model I needed ...
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On the 22 High Performance 2 blade, why not hub it to a Johnson? How much is the cost of the hub? They had one on Ebay a while back for about $30. To grind the flange down, Put it on a 3/4 shaft and clamp upright on a drill press and use a mill cutter or a grindstone and rotate it by hand. According tomy measurements there is .050 difference which is .025 wall thicknes. Someone on Fiberglassics cut the flange off but he sold it. Would recommend leaving the flange to prevent blowout. I read on a site for rehubbing you need a funnel to keep the rubber from spreading. Don't know if we have any prop shops around here anymore.
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I toyed with the idea of using either the 21" or 22" 2-blade bronze prop and rehubbing to a Johnson, but considering the smoothness and bow lift abilities of the OMC Raker 22" or SRX 23", I doubt that the 2-blade bronze prop would be better.
Someone on Fiberglassics had a 24" Hi-Performance Mercury Quicksilver 2-blade bronze for sale, but then one would have to have it repitched to a 23", whereas a 22" might be the best pitch.
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stats from rathbun last weekend
all excess gear piled up on beach, less than 1/4 tank of fuel
mystery prop (for comparison) 47.? @ 6K
banged up 20" raker 49.1 @5400
after the nick is welded up, and David thins and balances it we will test again.
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Touching up the prop makes a big difference. Let me know when you are ready.
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SO CLOSE TO 50!!
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Fellow on the national Glastron site with 1987 120 HP Johnson setback jack, SRX 27" prop, etc running 64 MPH.
" Alright fellers...
I've been watching this thread for a long time and have yet to see any progress made so I thought I'd jumpstart it this year.
My GT 150 is a 1974 I rebuilt completely (minus the pretty gelcoat). The extent of the modifications was removing the ski locker and making the stringers and transom thicker.
I started with a 1978 115 Rude that would put me to 50mph wit a 19" OMC SST. I blew up the #1 cylinder on that motor. Then I got a 1987 110 Rude and was pushing 52.5mph with the same 19" prop. then I got my hands on three 23" SRXs!!!! Mounted high up and turning 6250rpms I was able to consistently hit 55mph all day with no trouble. BUT the small gearcase on the V4 Crossflows requires the use of extreme trim which results in extreme chinewalk
Stock SRX - 53.5
Spinelli Brothers SRX - 55.3
DAH SRX - 56.6
Then the 110hp blew the crankcase seal, it was still getting me 55mph but was making a mess of my splashwell and midsection so I retired that motor.
Now I have a 1987 120hp Johnson looper. the V6 gearcase is a 2.25:1 ratio and I'm turning a 27" SRX at 6200rpm and is smoothly pushing 64mph!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have it on a Hi-Jacker with 6"setback and propshaft is set 5in below.
Converted it to tilt tube steering and I have no chine walk at 60+.... I drive it with one hand at those speeds no problem. The motor is stock except for pulling the VRO and putting a new diaphragm style pump on it from V6.
My 60MPH setup:
1987 120HP Johnson with top two holes plugged
27" OMC SRX
6in set back jackplate
Hot Foot throttle
steering wheel trim.
14 gallons of fuel in the back
battery in the back on the port side
lifejacket with kill switch
beer in my left hand and the other on the wheel
60+ Glastron GT150 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKFVndnz-qs#ws)
Ive only had this motor on for 5days so after setup I should be able to get up to get over 65mph.... cause we all know 70mph in a GT is just stupid
here's a screenshot from a video I filmed while driving with one hand the other day, before I raised the motor higher."
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Very respectable Joe, I laughed when I saw Laurie post the pic on FB with the gear stashed on the beach!
Can't argue the "new guy's" stats David, it appears he has broken through the barrier with his set-up. At first I thought it was probably B.S., but who am I to question? I was told by numerous people the GT-150 hulls would not perform well with any set back, maybe they were wrong. ???
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" At first I thought it was probably B.S., but who am I to question? "
If it's post on the internet it has to be true .... Right ?
I read his post the other day .. I don't know, he only has one post ... Doug getting that speed with out a set back ... but he isn't sitting back drinking a beer with one hand on the wheel ...
If a 6 inch set back can get me to the high 50's with out handling issues ... I'm getting a 6 inch set back !
I don't know ...
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I don't believe he's going anywhere near that fast in the vid.
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... but he isn't sitting back drinking a beer with one hand on the wheel ...
Well ... sometimes ...
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" Well ... sometimes ... "
OK .. I was wrong ...
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Yes, something does not seem right. But even if it is, it is not a boat that can go fast in rough water - too short of a boat. Notice how smooth the water is.
The tests of my 23" SRX's on White Bear Lake were in choppy water, yet the boat felt safe at all times, no chine walk, no yanking, no porposing at 55 to 56 MPH. The NFB steering means I can take my hands off the steering wheel and it will not turn. Feeling and being safe mean alot.
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OK Joe ...
Ya need a 6 inch set back and more HP ...
Maybe a 150 HP ETEC or something like that, so ya can hit 70 mph and put this guy to shame ...
Dave ...
Did the guy you met at Lions levee with the fancy black CVX16 have a Jack plate on it ?
Remember you posted pictures a short time ago ...
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More HP cain't hurt. But in the meantime have David rework that Raker for you Joe. You need to be spinnin that prop, or one just like it, closer to 58-5900 @ wot. Then y'oughta easily crack the 50 mph mark.
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it is not a boat that can go fast in rough water - too short of a boat. Notice how smooth the water is.
Zacly! Too short. (And wide.) The GT 150 is unlike the "V" series hulls. Including the GT 160. The 150's more of an "air slot" kinda hull. It's only gonna go so fast, then something bad's gonna happen ...
edit. Plus you can smoke one in a V153 with comparable power. Chop or not.
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The fellow at Lions Levee was a perfectionist and one who tried everything to make his CVX-16 go fast - blueprinting the hull, jackplate (see attached picture, it appears to be less than 6"), raising the motor a bit at a time, and experimenting with Laser II props. When we met him, he was running a 22" Laser, then switched to a 24" Laser and went about 60 MPH (a 26" Laser was too steep). He tried to design a low water pickup system to raise the motor even higher, but that did not work.
In my opinion, he could have gone faster by usiing a Mercury 24" Chopper prop and using a jackplate with more setback.
Remember Conrad Schmidt was raising his Mercury 1500 XS to the extreme by usiing a defecter system to feed water into the inlets, and hit 80 MPH in his Glastron Contender using a 28" Chopper, I believe.
Carlson Contender 1500 XS 1975 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aWycby9aFk#ws)
In this video he is going 70 MPH but constantly improved his speed and reached his goal of 80 MPH. Sold the boat and is now working on another project.
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Sold the boat and is now working on another project.
Yup, but KEPT the Merc 1500 XS! ;D
Milkdud (Conrad) has been way too quiet lately, wonder what he's up to? How about running over there and finding out Doran?
Glad I wasn't the only one skeptical about the speed report of 60+, but I hate to "call somebody out" without proof! (I agree the video does NOT look like anything over about 50 mph IMHO.) The prop size and measurements don't make sense to me either, but I'm just a rookie at the speed game. A 120hp swinging a 27" pitch at 6200 rpm sounds unlikely, and the propshaft is set 5in below
sounds awfully high to me. (Mine is 6 1/2" below the keel, without a jack plate.) That's in the second hole up, it's the exact distance from the anti-cavitation or anti-ventilation plate which is level with the keel on my boat? I guess the set-back would allow you to run higher, but without a low water pickup???
IF it's true, more power to him. BUT I don't want to be on the same water if he's driving around with a beer in his hand!!! Nothing wrong with a cold libation, but wait until you're OFF the water or not behind the helm, PLEASE.
Dougie, I'm going to ignore your V-153 smokin' the GT-150 comment (again), 'cause I love you brother! ;D
Gregg, I can't imagine hanging a 400+ pound outboard off the back of a GT-150, I'd be afraid a ripple would swamp the boat! The 300+ pound V4 is plenty, for me anyway.
Thanks for allowing my incessant ramblings, up too early as usual....
PS - Joe I am sorry for trashing your thread. You and I might not be the fastest GT-150's on the water, but we look good! Ha ha
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Mark ...
" The prop size and measurements don't make sense to me either "
Me either !
He has the GPS shot though ...
I was J/K about the 150 HP motor.
I've though a 90 HP Yamaha (about 250 lbs. 3 cyl.) would be cool to try.
Mark (catchaedge) is getting 48 mph out of his 85 HP Merc w/o T&T, bet the Yamie would get over 50 mph pretty easily ...
Dave ...
The black CVX could be a 6 inch, maybe 4 inch ?
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Jack plates suck. This should be the right set-up, if I could ever get it in the water.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/DSC01357Large.jpg)
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No prob, all good stuff.
I'm skeptical about those speeds as well, but i don't have that much experience either.
It just seems that the consistent info from GT 150 owners is "things get funky over 50"
I will say that 49.1 in my 150 was not a "beer in 1 hand experience"
With it trimmed all the way up there is no left turn, and its hard to hold it straight, i do need to try again with a trim tab.
Another thing to note, with all the gear out of the boat it is vary unstable at WOT / full trim in contrast to when loaded down it will run in mid 40's, handle great, crank the wheel all the way either direction and it just sticks to the water, like a sports car (with beer in hand if required). And with the mystery prop the hole-shot is so good i can pull the rope right out of a skiers hand.
To me thats where the real fun is, the max speed is just "bragging rights"
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The set up looks good on the 64 MPH boat as very little of the boat is in the water. He says 14 gallons of gas in the back - that is alot of weight. Seems like the good holeshot getting up on plane refutes 14 gallons of gas in the back.
The GPS reads 60.5 MPH. Maybe he is traveling on a swift current swollen river where the water current is 4 MPH in his favor.
It boils down to the fun factor in one's boat - a range of speeds covering "on the edge", daring, slow cruising, and mid range - that are all enjoyable.
If max speed is where all the fun is, why do you see so many Allision's for sale? Occasional top speed is okay, but constant top speed is tiring and the driver is just trying to hold it all together.
Gregg: I read where the 90 HP Yamaha's horsepower rating is grossly overstated.
Joe: You may borrow my 20" Raker that is in good condition to compare top MPH with your 20" Raker.
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Joe wrote:
With it trimmed all the way up there is no left turn, and its hard to hold it straight, i do need to try again with a trim tab.
Same issue with mine Joe, I think as we trim up the "trim tab" on the motor is less effective? It feels like the wheel is locked from turning left at top speed trimmed up, and you sure wouldn't want to let go of the wheel with either hand! Adjusting the trim tab for top speed screws it up for normal cruising though, I did extensive testing (aka fiddling) with the tab. Different props really effected the best setting there as well, just something you have to play with to find the best overall setting for YOU. She IS a sports car on the water "within the realms of reason", and that's where I spend most of my time on the water these days. (Well I hope to soon, anyway!) ;)
David wrote:It boils down to the fun factor in one's boat - a range of speeds covering "on the edge", daring, slow cruising, and mid range - that are all enjoyable.
Exactly my thoughts David, well said.
I knew you were kidding Gregg, if they'd have put a pad under these hulls it would be a different story altogether!
Jerry I know you'll get your set-up figured out, hang in there brother!
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Joe, do not know if this will work for you in eliminating the torque thrust, but you are welcome to try it - a modified OMC trim tab from an sterndrive.
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At the right hight this is what you need for a trim tab.
(http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh181/50sflash/IMG_0075Large.jpg)
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ok here it is...
51.4
i will admit the max speed was not maintained, i suspect it was when i came off a wake and got some good air.
but the GPS recorded it so i'm claiming it ;)
note the pile on the beach (all the excess gear and seat cushions removed)
when someone asks "how fast does it go ?" i can say 50 :D
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You have the proof !
What GPS app is that ?
You have an iPhone ... right ?
I like the graph screen ...
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navionics, costs 10.99, has river lake maps for all of north America.
shows depth markers, logs route and speed
you can also download sections of the map for when you got no data signal.
i hate to pay for apps but i think this one is worth it.
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Remove the windshield, aft light, skipod, and your head. You'll run 55 ...
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Funny thing is, I got halfway out of the no wake zone and noticed the ski pole was still on, turned around and took it off Laurie gave me a pretty bad time about that
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Congrats on the new top speed Joe, very respectable.
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the "mystery props" have been identified !
the numbers are on the hub (right where you said they would be David)
i was looking easy to see numbers that were cast into the hub, these are stamped vary lightly.
both are the same (orig mystery prop and the one off the T-168 bass boat)
the slight difference in performance was prob due to test conditions.
OMC SST 13 3/8" x 17" part number 384139
i will post a pix of the one from the T-168, guess its for sale.
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/14/sysujune.jpg)
Do ya think I can get $100 out of it ?
edit:
listed on CL for $125
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I doubt it Joe. New ones on e-bay are about $120 to $130. Seems to be an overstock of these props.
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oh well :P
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Joe, If it doesn't need any repairs, I'd give ya $75 for it. It should fit my 75 Evinrude.
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Joe, If it doesn't need any repairs, I'd give ya $75 for it. It should fit my 75 Evinrude.
under consideration
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Ya unfortunately they ain't worth much Joe. Like David said, there's alotta them around.
Btw I've got a good 13 X 19, #389510, if anyone's interested. I could conceivably bring it to Red Wing?
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Hey Joe. Does that bass boat have any gauges in it? I'm looking for a late 70's early 80's OMC tach.
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no, but i have a box of misc stuff from Joe P, i can check and see if there is something there.
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Interesting...
Looking at the track I saved in navionics from the last half of our trim on the Mississippi yesterday, hit 49.1 with a full load and both of us in the boat :-D
Not even trying
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/gyha2ege.jpg)
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Joe, check the river current by reading your GPS while the boat is stopped. Bet the river current is 3 MPH. This river current speed should be added or subtracted from your WOT GPS reading, depending on whether you are traveling against or with the current, respectively,
On a lake, you can not cheat, except by having the wind at your back, a nice chop, and cold weather. My 56.6 MPH at secret lake WBL would be 2 miles less under average conditions.
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I say the record stands! Regardless of David's nitpicking ...
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Okay, the record stands.
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Records are made to be broken!!!
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The top speed is cool, but the reality is how great this thing runs out under normal conditions.
20" raker, no trim tab, running WOT, trimmed about half way up, best friend (Laurie) as co-pilot, cooler with drinks and food, half to full tank of gas (18gal tank in front).
on smooth water it runs flat and true in the mid/high 40's with no torque steer (does not have NFB, just an old teleflex rotary).
so i think i have (by accident) found the perfect combination :)
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After talking with a few of you, I've reluctantly made the decision to pass on this motor and others. I'm going to get this T-166 project finished, and then decide if I want to do a swap. On this particular boat, I talked to the owner again, and he said that he ran into some mud and was spraying muddy water in the air... (I'm reminded of Shorty and others going north on Lake Pepin several years ago). He stated that a few minutes after, the motor shut down. He let it cool off for ten minutes, and limped it back to the landing and hasn't run it since.
I guess that the potential hassle is not worth the reward in this case.
Thanks for all the advice everyone!
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/31/a4yha9e2.jpg)
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Outstanding Joe! Handle okay?
Tell ya what. Ya might oughta keep your eyes peeled for a set of high comp heads for that thing. Guarantee that'd kick things up a notch ...
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Very nice Joe! I bet you were ecstatic to see that number!
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Great numbers Joe.
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Well it was just a short Peak but I just thought it would be fun to post it, this thing handles so great it is a blast to drive when turned up part way.
When it's trimmed up all the way it does tend to get slight amount to China walk, and severe torque steer.
Doug, I think it does have high compression heads, when I first got it I noticed the spark plug gaps were closed when I ran standard plugs, so I have to run serf ace gap Plugs.
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What the HECK !
That make's me the slowest 115 HP in the group ...
OUTSTANDING Joe !
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What the HECK !
That make's me the slowest 115 HP in the group ...
OUTSTANDING Joe !
I'm sure side by side u would be kicking my @@@
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Wait a minute ...
I'm not ... YET !
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I got the app downloaded. How do I get it to say 56 MPH?
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Get in your car and hit the freeway ...
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TESTING 1 2 3
http://tinyurl.com/lnr7p3w (http://tinyurl.com/lnr7p3w)
? ? ? ? ? ?
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Congrats on the 54 Joe, that's a very respectable top end IMHO. 8)
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OK Joe ...
Time to flip your hull, grind and build up a pad, take out the hook, if you have one, then sharpen up the stakes.
Get a electric jack plate and hydraulic steering, then you'll need that 1975 135 HP Evenrude for $895 on the local CL.
Start combing eBay for Second Effort speed parts, send a few props out to be labed .
Remove wind shield and go on a diet ...
You should be able to break 55 mph with easies ...
LOL ...
On a serous side ...
That 135 Rude would look SWEET on the back of your GT !
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/boa/4594327762.html (http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/boa/4594327762.html)
(http://images.craigslist.org/00O0O_bK8rdm12053_600x450.jpg)
(http://images.craigslist.org/00t0t_2U1pKYLLU28_600x450.jpg)
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Well...
In all reality most of what you listed is my plan for the GT-160
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That Silver Starflite is cool....I remember when they came out. I think they were only out for 1974 and 1975?
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Silver Starflite's are cool, but my favorite's the Super Strangler. Two carbs for each cylinder. WooHoo! (Not known for their fuel economy ...)
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Doug, I think it does have high compression heads, when I first got it I noticed the spark plug gaps were closed when I ran standard plugs, so I have to run serf ace gap Plugs.
I member you saying that Joe. But I don't think that motor came with hi comp heads. Squish oughta be about the same either way. Mebbe somebody sawed on the ones that are on it? Who knows. Only one way to find out.
edit. Yo Joe. Can you find a part # on the head(s)?
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I kno the wernt spose to have them, just figured it may be the case cuz the 135's call for serface gap plugs only. I do kno this motor has not been apart. I also have 2 135 parts motors and another 115 with good comp so should be able cobble something together.
Think what this guy did with the kona looks like a good place to start with the 160
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3783.msg45144#msg45144
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Pushing 50 in a GT is quite impressive, and I admire your courage, the time you spend, and the tenacity you display chasing down that goal. My CVX16SS had a top speed around 45 at 4800 RPM, but it got a bit squirrely at that speed, handling changed dramatically. It sounds like your close.
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I kno the wernt spose to have them, just figured it may be the case cuz the 135's call for serface gap plugs only. I do kno this motor has not been apart. I also have 2 135 parts motors and another 115 with good comp so should be able cobble something together.
Think what this guy did with the kona looks like a good place to start with the 160
http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3783.msg45144#msg45144 (http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=3783.msg45144#msg45144)
That is the good old days....aired up with no pad and single cable steering....mid 60's on an 800 pound hull seems good
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Hey guys,
I rebuilt both a '79 GT-150 and a '84 Merc 115 and finally got it on the water two weeks ago. The boat started chine walking at 50 mph and we were able to get it up to 56 and there was still room left on the throttle.
I have a 2 blade bronze prop with a 23 inch pitch.
My plans are to extend the two incomplete strakes put a pad on it. I'm open to any suggestions as to how to install the pad.
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" I'm open to any suggestions as to how to install the pad. "
Might be easier to just get a CVX16 ....
56 MPH is pretty darn good out of a GT150 !
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i did some looking around last year and this is the only thread i could find relating to adding a pad to a GT.
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?251915-glastron-gt150&highlight=glastron+gt150 (http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?251915-glastron-gt150&highlight=glastron+gt150)
i think Greg is right, be easier to get a CVX.
my original plan was to add a pad to my GT160 when i redo it, was gonna just copy the pad like a CVX16 has. but after talking to Don and reading the article he posted i think that would yield similar results.
here are 3 links relating controlling chine walk
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/stability/chine-walking-17405.html (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/stability/chine-walking-17405.html)
http://www.hydrostream.org/TechTalk/ChinewalkTheory.htm (http://www.hydrostream.org/TechTalk/ChinewalkTheory.htm)
http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?178921-strakes-vs-pads-rocker-vs-hook (http://www.screamandfly.com/showthread.php?178921-strakes-vs-pads-rocker-vs-hook)
unfortunately i will not be getting into my GT150 for a while (need to put my open bow IO on the water next summer).
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I have read articles on how boat company's (Hydrostream in this case) tune hull designs.
First come up with a design that should work, test ... Bring back to shop and add or subtract material to hull ...
Retest ...
Etc ... Etc ... Etc ...
Even then if you were up to the task, was it the tweak you did to the hull that got you an extra half MPH or the water conditions /temp of air / other factor ?
Make sure motor is centered on transom, solid motor mounts, new steering system with out any slop, jack plate with small amount of set back, moving weights around battier / fuel tanks / etc.
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My suggestion is to forget about a pad on a GT150 when you want speeds in the mid 50's and more. The boat is too short for that. Go with a CVX-16. My CVX-16 is stable at 59 MPH and is comfortable to drive at that speed. Others with more horsepower than my 115 HP Johnson, two examples come to mind at 150 HP Johnson and 175 HP Johnson say they can get into the mid 60's.
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As stated a pad would probly not be worth the effort. I'd start off with a hull that already had one. And if ya wanna stay small, and stick with Glastron, the CVX16 is the only choice.
I had the pleasure of piloting David's in Red Wing this summer. I can attest to it's speed and stability. Very impressive.
What kind of RPMs were you turning with that 2 blade prop?
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This is the second time I got my GT-150 out on the water. It was 31 degrees and 5 " of snow. This is on the Des Moines river.
http://youtu.be/isc2LF5g7LA (http://youtu.be/isc2LF5g7LA)
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Cool!
See? You don't need a pad.
Might wanna work on the splashwell drain though ...
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Any maximum speed recorded? What prop are you using? Do you dry the boat off in a heated area?
Did you meet Conrad Schmidt? That is a joke. He would also take his boat out in Iowa in the snow and ice.
Something about hitting the lake in the cold weather.
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Dude...
Yer kinda crazy, but it looks like fun
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Awesome video! Nice editing too. Your tempting me to drag the boat out of the garage!
We need speed numbers!
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Very nice. Just curious how long is the run on the des moines river?
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COOL !
In so many ways ...
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Love it!
Windshield was iced over, and other areas I assume, so you were carrying extra weight. Those were Canadian geese you flew by, and I've clocked them many times in other boats at 42 mph. So I would say you were mid 50's.
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Very nice. Just curious how long is the run on the des moines river?
He's about a 1/2 mile up from the dam spillway, which is a little too close for my comfort. We lose about 1 life a season there... can maybe go what, a mile or two upstream before its too shallow again.
But, very cool...I think he'll be ready for the Iowa meet!
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This bad boy is a work in progress. It's the second time I had it in the water. I dont have any seats in it yet but she'll be ready to roll when the Iowa and Minn events come around next summer.
The Motor is a recently rebuilt '85 115 and the prop is a 2 blade 23 pitch bronze unit. We reached top speeds of 57 but it chine walks at 50. I was running the motor wide open with it trimmed in so I was pushing a lot of water. When Conrad ran it he felt a little more comfortable trimming it up and getting more speed out it.
Yes I know I need a hole in the splash well and yes, Doran, I know that we were by the dam. We only dropped below university Ave. and we never went below 235 plus we had two paddles so we had time to paddle her to shore if needed.
There was no ice in the river yesterday but today it's jammed in there. We put in at a marina that allows us to run up river about 2 miles (upstream). It's really a fun run.
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Just don't want you going over before we've at least met! lol
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Do they still have the grab cable over the river for emergencies?
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The Motor is a recently rebuilt '85 115 and the prop is a 2 blade 23 pitch bronze unit.
If you do not run out of RPM 's, try Conrad's 21" Quicksiver 2 blade bronze prop. The 21" has a later and faster design in it than the 23".
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so far this is what i have seen with the GT-150, 73 115hp Johnson no power trim, trim pin in second hole from transom.
Laurie and i in the boat, 9 to 12 gallons of gas in the bow.
1, unknown ss prop (with a few small nicks), 5600 RPM, 42 MPH GPS
2, 14x19P alum, 4900 RPM, 43 MPH GPS
3, 13x19P alum, 6500 RPM, 41 MPH GPS
these next 2 runs were Friday evening at rathbun, BUT... when i got home i found that the choke detent had fallen apart so that data may be skewed.
4, 13x21P alum, 4800 RPM, 44 MPH GPS
5, 12.75x21 alum, 4800 RPM, 44 MPH GPS
repeated run #5 with new plugs from Jerry same numbers. (orig BU8H, replaced with L77V)
The jump between 13x19 and 13x21 should not be 1700 RPM ????
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I agree don, those tests were in Iowa last year I didn't have very much seat time in the boat (or in any boat for that matter) and didn't know much about the props either. The 13 x 19 I talked about this one that came in a motor I bought, after running it again with similar results and actually comparing the prop to others I have, it appears that it had been modified (blades seem really small)
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Conrad has a chopper prop that he is going to let me try. If it’s the real deal then I’m going to buy one. I do have several props to try as the gentleman who sold me the boat also threw in 5 different props. But for overall speed, Im thinking the over exhaust chopper prop will be the animal for me.
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Hard to tell from video, how much set back your jack plate has ...
How much set back ?
How high is your motor ?
Do you have a low water pick up ?
Do you have a water PSI gauge ?
Might want to try some ...
http://www.bobsmachine.com/Motor-Mount-Set-Mercury-Inline-404-200000.htm (http://www.bobsmachine.com/Motor-Mount-Set-Mercury-Inline-404-200000.htm)
Will you try the chopper now or wait till summer ?
Please let us know your results.
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Hard to tell from video, how much set back your jack plate has ...
How much set back ? 4”
How high is your motor ? Conrad says I need to raise it probably 2 more inches
Do you have a low water pick up ? No
Do you have a water PSI gauge ? no but I plan on installing one.
I don’t plan on putting it in the water until spring but I do plan on getting solid engine mounts. Also, we bled the line in the hydraulic steering before we put it on the water and that seemed to help. There was a little play in the cylinder the first time we put it on the water. Now the cylinder is rock solid and the engine mounts are only thing that is causing the movement.
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How high is your cavitation plate above the bottom of your hull now ?
Do you have any pictures of your set up ?
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The only disadvantage with the chopper is that it has bow lift, which you do not need on the GT150. The 2-blade bronze props have no rake to them. The blades are straight up and down, without flaring back. Notice the difference in the sweep back between this Mercury Chopper and a 2-blade bronze. But then, try them all. Props surprise you sometimes.
Even a cleaver may work.
Do you have a tachometer? The later year Mercs can run 5,700 to 5,800 RPM. Conrad knows those Mercs inside and out.
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" But then, try them all. Props surprise you sometimes. "
Yep .. Try every one you can find ...
Jerry filled the top water pick up holes and enlarged the bottom ones.
Looked like good insurance for water PSI on lifted motors.
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Conrad uses deflecter plates in back of the water pickup holes to supply water.
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plan on getting solid engine mounts
Ehh. They're kinda hard on the boat'n don't gain much overall. But if'n you want it to feel each & every last vibration from the motor, that's your business.
I'd work on prop & motor height first. Y'already got hydraulic steering to take up the slack.
Like to see your set up. Pics please?
Ya. Some of us round here swear by small hub choppers ...
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Conrad uses deflecter plates in back of the water pickup holes to supply water.
These work well but can catch debris as well.......
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I've seen some that stood up like lil dams behind the holes. I like your version better.
Seen guys carve grooves into the gearcase to 'channel' the water toward the intake.
'Course this is all moot since the inception of low water pickups?
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I figured I might just as well continue on this thread, it was fun reading all the stuff that's been posted on here.
Recap, GT150, 1973 115hp johnson w power trim mounted 1 hole up, no trim tab, stock steering.
Update from last season (2015), my main prop was a 20" raker, when running solo I could just tick 50 miles an hour, with people and gear in the boat could run in the mid 40s and excellent performance and handling.
For pulling Skiers or tubers a 17 inch SST, the neet thing about that prop, with no load the boat is on plane in just seconds.
Moving onto the present.
Installed a Baystar hydraulic steering, had to make some custom brackets to get it to fit on the older motor.
Raise the motor up to the fourth hole.
First good shot at testing was Friday, April 22, with the boat loaded, myself Laurie, dogs cooler, stuff.
Top speed of 47.8 with the 20 inch raker, 51.3 with the 21 inch SST. The boat still handles fantastic, although the SST is sensitive to too much trim and it can blow out a little easier in turns and during acceleration.
Experience no chine walk with the boat loaded like that and virtually no feedback on the steering which is awesome.
It will be interesting to see what it does with me solo and the bow tank empty.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Nice speed for a loaded boat!
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Great speed Joe !
Are you running a trim tab on motor now (with Baystar) ?
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Great speed Joe !
Are you running a trim tab on motor now (with Baystar) ?
no
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Thinking that a cleaver or a Ballistic (mild bow lift and thin blades) might be a good prop to try.
There are two SST props from OMC, but they tested about the same MPH on my boat.
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Very cool Joe. Oughta really scoot with just the driver & a light load. I member the 153 was very sensitive to any additional weight.
David might be on to something with his cleaver suggestion.
Fwiw so long as your hi-temp alarm(s) work? I wouldn't rush out & buy a pressure gauge. You still have plenty of room to go up before you run into any issues.