Minnesota Classic Glastron Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: 75starflight on October 09, 2013, 11:16:37 PM
-
I picked up an engine stand on the cheap yesterday for $20.00. So I decided to start working on tearing down the 140 block I got from Joe to get it ready to go to the machine shop.
The engine stand I bought is only rated for 750lbs so I hope it is sturdy enough to hold the 350 for the CVZ18, when I get to building that.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/10/yry7ujem.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/10/ypudydyd.jpg)
Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk 2
-
Looks like the same cheap engine stand I have and it held a 350 long block but was hard to move around and didn't feel real safe.
-
Good luck on the rebuild.
Those engine stands look weak but can some how hold a lot of weight. Looks just like the one I had my 460 on which weighs about 650lbs.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t124/lincolnman1969/221009-1.jpg) (http://s159.photobucket.com/user/lincolnman1969/media/221009-1.jpg.html)
-
Good luck on the rebuild, I'd watch how tippy that stand is with a single front wheel. The one I have has two up front, but it is still a HF cheapy and it held the fully dressed 302 fine. I did weld up support brackets to run it on the stand for break in though. Here's some motivation and you can see one of the brackets I made to support the front of the motor.
CVX16 V8 motor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev0TiwFamhA#)
-
Sounds like a steal. I've had one for 40 years with no problem. Check that #1 cylinder close. With the water pump blowing right on it, it tends to wear more than the rest.
-
Didn't notice the one front wheel. Mine had two. That does seem a little scary....
The 140 you can run on a pallet once you get the bell housing and front motor mount on.
-
Didn't notice the one front wheel. Mine had two. That does seem a little scary....
It is. A grain of sand on the floor can affect the caster. Two would definitely be better.
-
For what I paid for it, I can always add a bar to the front and put 2 casters on it before the 350 build. I does roll well over all the cracks on the floor of my shop with out a problem with the single wheel and is very stable at the moment. I rotated the engine over to see what it would do and did not even try to tip.
-
Didn't notice the one front wheel. Mine had two. That does seem a little scary....
The 140 you can run on a pallet once you get the bell housing and front motor mount on.
I ran the 120 on a piano dolly before I put it back into Phoenix Rising this season after the rebuild.
-
Pulled the oil pan over my lunch hour today, and it was a PITA. I found more of that blasted silicone gasket maker and I think the rest of the engine is put together with it too. :P
So when I removed the oil pan I found this
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/11/y6eny8e4.jpg)
A milky oil mess.
And all of the following
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/11/pyradyge.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/11/rytu5ete.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/11/ahaqy8e5.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/11/u5u3upy3.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/11/yhuta8ut.jpg)
Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk 2
-
A lot of the newer GM cars, if you go to the dealer and ask for a gasket set, they hand you a tube of silicone. Don't use that much when you put it back together. LOL
-
Eeeewwwww, what a mess Brandon!
-
Not lookin' good !
-
Brandon, Are you hoping it's just a bad head gasket? Going to get block and head pressure tested? Look for cracks on the head or block surface from the cooling passage to the combustion chamber. Can you see down inside the block on the crank end and see any cracks from the water passage? Maybe it cracked internally rather than externally.
-
MMMMMMMMMMMMM Chocolate milk. Good to drink, bad for engines!
-
Brandon, Are you hoping it's just a bad head gasket? Going to get block and head pressure tested? Look for cracks on the head or block surface from the cooling passage to the combustion chamber. Can you see down inside the block on the crank end and see any cracks from the water passage? Maybe it cracked internally rather than externally.
Head had three cracks on it. Machinest did not even have to magnaflux it, spotted them right away. Exterior of the block looks good. I plan on getting it completely torn down, then having it checked out to make sure it is in good shape.
-
Got the block completely torn down this evening. Did a good inspection of the internal structure, I did not fin any visual cracks. The cylinders do need to be honed, and all the rod and main bearings show a fare amount of wear. A few rod bearings showed some signs of minor oil starvation. I will try to post some pictures. Probably won't get the parts to the machine shop until after the first of November.
-
Components are finally at the machine shop this afternoon. On first inspection by the machinist looks like it will be getting one reconditioned rod so far the other three will be inspected. Going to go with flattop pistons instead of the dished for more compression. New stock cam, 10 to 15 lbs heaver valve springs and stainless valves and add a set of full roller rockers. Oh, and balance the crank shaft and rods. Should have it back after the first of the year.
-
I still have two rods/pistons left from the 140 I pulled out of my cvx16 if you need a rod. Did this with the other two...
Might want to save the remaining two before I desecrate them like the others ;)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u619/kert0307/IMAG0412_zps5acf8e55.jpg)
-
I still have two rods/pistons left from the 140 I pulled out of my cvx16 if you need a rod. Did this with the other two...
Might want to save the remaining two before I desecrate them like the others ;)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u619/kert0307/IMAG0412_zps5acf8e55.jpg)
COOL! I need a plasma cutter....
-
I still have two rods/pistons left from the 140 I pulled out of my cvx16 if you need a rod. Did this with the other two...
Might want to save the remaining two before I desecrate them like the others ;)
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u619/kert0307/IMAG0412_zps5acf8e55.jpg)
Desecrate them! That is just too sweet! You should do one so the a mercruiser logo.
-
hmm, i might be able to do something with this logo...
(http://cmmarinedistributing.com/images/uploads/Logos/Mercury%20M%20Logo%20Large.jpg)
Anyway, good luck on the rebuild. If you need a rod let me know. I have a set from a Ford 300 laying around here too I'll make something out of eventually also so I will still have "parts" if I give you the 140 rods.
-
I think it would look better like this. ;D
-
I have been doing a little research on parts for the 140, and since the mechanical distributor that was originally on it is no longer available i was doing a little research and found an update kit to convert over to the delco voyager distributor.
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/delco-voyager-marine-electronic-distributor-p-120.html (http://www.michiganmotorz.com/delco-voyager-marine-electronic-distributor-p-120.html)
Just curious if anyone has installed one of these and how reliable they are. Also I am leaning this way because the replacement parts would be more available when I am out of state if I would start to have ignition problems.
-
That should be a nice upgrade, all the newer 3.0 liter engines from Mercury/Mercruiser have been using that ignition system since the mid 90's. However you can find the older points-style Delco distributors on ebay cheap and just convert the points to Pertronix if you wanted to stay with the old school look. I think the cap and rotors for the newer system are less money than the older ones so going newer is more economical.
-
I got a call from the Machine shop this morning with some news on how the work is going. He said the block does have a crack in it but it is able to be repaired with out any issue. So I gave him the green light to fix it.
He also said that the crank shaft looks good so far.
-
I have a question on drive couplers. The one that came on the 140 is the old style that is attached directly to the crank shaft with studs an nuts. If I have a 12 3/4" flywheel, couldn't I use a modern coupler that bolts directly to the flywheel? Like this one?
http://www.michiganmotorz.com/mercruiser-12%C3%82%C2%BE-engine-coupler-p-104.html (http://www.michiganmotorz.com/mercruiser-12%C3%82%C2%BE-engine-coupler-p-104.html)
Or would their be an issue?
-
If it will bolt up to the flywheel I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work but two things do come to mind - 1) will you have clearance between the flywheel and the bell housing and 2) is the drive shaft socket in the coupler at the right depth for the drive shaft to plug into? Why do you feel the need to change from what was originally used? I'm sure the original style coupler is still available if you need to replace it.
-
If it will bolt up to the flywheel I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work but two things do come to mind - 1) will you have clearance between the flywheel and the bell housing and 2) is the drive shaft socket in the coupler at the right depth for the drive shaft to plug into? Why do you feel the need to change from what was originally used? I'm sure the original style coupler is still available if you need to replace it.
I was actually hoping to avoid using the studs to mount the flywheel and coupler again. But you do have a good point on the depth of the coupler and the clearance will probably be an issue. I know how tight the original coupler fit in the flywheel housing, and there isn't much room for error. Thank you for you help Rich.
-
Good news every one!
I talked to my machinist Friday afternoon and I should (if everything goes well) have the 140 home by this coming Saturday!
-
Cool, can't wait to see it installed and running.
-
Cool, can't wait to see it installed and running.
I have a long way to go before that happens. I still have to put the puzzle back together!
Its going to be slow going, this is my first engine build and all I can say is I hope I know what I am doing.
-
A good, high quality, service manual and you can always post questions here, you really should not have any issues. The first engine you build will always give you a great sense of pride and accomplishment. Rarely is that sense as strong in later builds, still fun though. Have you checked YouTube for some rebuild videos?
-
A good, high quality, service manual and you can always post questions here, you really should not have any issues. The first engine you build will always give you a great sense of pride and accomplishment. Rarely is that sense as strong in later builds, still fun though. Have you checked YouTube for some rebuild videos?
I do have a manual that i will be using that was given to me when we purchased phoenix from my in-laws. I watched some videos a couple months ago and will probably do some searching on youtube when questions do arise when I don't feel like posting on here. but in the end I am sure I will have plenty to ask from the knowledge of this group.
-
The same basic principles apply regardless of the engine you are assembling. Clean, check clearances, proper lubricant, correct fasteners, torque specs, and sealants. Plenty of videos on YT detailing how to check main cap clearances. If your using new, and I suggest it, main and connecting rod bolts, be sure to follow the manufacturers instructions. For example, TRW and ARP both furnish special lubricant for torqueing main and rod caps bolts. Mains can be re-used in basically stock engine, but Con rods should always be fitted with new. They stretch over time and can no longer provide the proper yield strength. Not much money involved, half as much as a V-8(He He). Spend some effort on cleaning the crankshaft oil journals if the shop turned it especially, use rifle brushes if you have too. Harbor Freight sells a wonderful brush kit for cheap that works well. If you have a way to support the crankshaft outside the engine, you could plastigage the con rods before installation, just mark them with a perm marker so you know which journal you checked them on. Overall, take your time, mistakes happen when your in a hurry. Check, check, and recheck fastener torque, its so easy to miss one. Call me anytime if ya need too. We want to see Phoenix in June. I will be seeing you, hopefully, in April for breakfast.
-
Just got the call from the machine shop, the 140 parts are ready to be picked up!
-
We have a load of 140 parts on its way home.(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/29/u3a6epa7.jpg)
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
SWEET! Kinda like Christmas in March, even if you did have to pay for it yourself Brandon. 8)
Let the assembly begin!
-
Got the cleaning and thread chasing done today, and the darn silicone gasket maker is still.haunting me! Almost every oil pan, timing cover, and water pump bolt had that crud in it yet.
-
Been there brother, that stuff can be a real pain! The carbs on the '73 Johnson on my Starflite were full of it when I bought it. Saving a few bucks on gaskets can really bite some people in the behind, especially when they use too much of it.
-
Assembly has started! Crank shaft is installed and I got the piston ring gaps checked, so the pistons will get installed tomorrow night! Sorry no pics, I will post some tomorrow after the work is done.
-
Buckets are installed, forgot to read my book for the first two and discovered I had one installed backwards so had to remove and reinstall. and there was a couple other hiccups along the way that I'm not going to mention. All I can say is it was nice to have a second set of eyes tonight, Travis came over to help and he was a lifesaver.
I do have a couple questions though for those of you who have done builds before. On the oil pump is it recommended to prime the pump before installation. Also on the lifters would it be wise to use the pre assembly lube or to soak them in the oil I'm going to use for break in.
-
Buckets? Can I assume your talking seats? Cant think of anything on an engine that I refer to as a bucket but I'm always open to learn something new. As for the oil pump, I would assemble with a bit of assembly lube or light grease. I'm assuming that when you have the engine ready, you will prime the oil system with a drill(distrib out). The lube protects the close tolerance gears and plate from initial wear and helps to develop a bit of suction to pull up oil. Lifters, insure that you use a good cam lube on the faces, but as for oiling, I generally soak them overnight and give a quick purge with an old pushrod before installation. A cutoff antifreeze container bottom is the perfect size. Helps them pump up quickly when the engine is first started. I always set the lash again after first heat soak just to be sure, so initially my valve covers are installed finger tight only. Sounds like your rolling, it will be good to see Phoenix at Rathbun again.
-
Buckets = Pistons sorry, saw it on another forum when I was doing research. :-D
-
Always called them Buckets. I always use 50-50 oil and STP for assembly. Fill the pump and filter with oil, or spin the pump with a 1/2"drill until you have pressure.
-
Good to see it's coming together! I remember from a thread somewhere you were talking about different valve covers for it, but I don't remember what style you were looking for. I was looking through my pile o parts and found this. If you want it you can have it for free at Rathbun.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u619/kert0307/IMAG0781_zps2673308e.jpg)
-
Good to see it's coming together! I remember from a thread somewhere you were talking about different valve covers for it, but I don't remember what style you were looking for. I was looking through my pile o parts and found this. If you want it you can have it for free at Rathbun.
(http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u619/kert0307/IMAG0781_zps2673308e.jpg)
It was actually a different push rod cover, which I got from Jason. I would take it, it is always good to have spare parts especially when its free!
-
Finished up the bottom end of the build tonight, my father came over to help. Had to make a couple trips out to work to get the correct length of bolts but it all came together great!
E(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/04/re2ade7u.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/04/sa6e3ype.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/04/za9avaqa.jpg)
Oh yeah it is a good thing to be building the engine this week the weather has been crappy and it is snowing now.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/04/nujysy2y.jpg)
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
Buckets = Pistons, that's a new one on me. Hoping that when you stated you had to find correct length bolts, you were considering bolts for other than main caps. Were/are your pistons marked with an arrow pointing towards the flywheel? Looks like your making good progress although with the weather it might be some time before installation takes place. Call me if you get stuck on something.
-
Buckets = Pistons, that's a new one on me. Hoping that when you stated you had to find correct length bolts, you were considering bolts for other than main caps. Were/are your pistons marked with an arrow pointing towards the flywheel? Looks like your making good progress although with the weather it might be some time before installation takes place. Call me if you get stuck on something.
The bolts were for the oil pan, and the Pistons were marked with a circle and that needed to be installed towards the front of the engine per my manual. Saturday and Sunday will be head installation and putting together the top end. But i wont be able compete the engine, I forgot to order a gasket set to put the manifold back together.
-
looking good. I never hard piston's being called buckets either.....
Didn't realize these engines didn't use a timing chain and just had gears. Interesting.
-
Didn't realize these engines didn't use a timing chain and just had gears. Interesting.
neither did I until I tore this one down. Just a thought for you Jason or anyone else that has a 120 or 140, you might want to check the timing gears. The original cam gear is made of fiber teeth that can strip with a steal center. I had found several postings on iboats where people had to be towed in because of this issue, and then had to have head work done on top of it when it was taken in for repair.
-
I think "Buckets" might be an old racers slang, I know it goes back to the 50s and 60s, You kids don't remember the good old days.
-
Piston orientation is definitely important so its very good you caught it before buttoning it all up. The pin is offset from the thrust side of the piston. We purposely did this on a formula V engine years ago, and it did make a small increase in power, but it knocked badly enough that the sound alone prompted us to not do it again. 2 Stroke engines really do not tolerate this at all, at least 250cc-400cc engines that I've worked with, maybe marine outboards are similar. You could always do a quick leak down test without the intake attached to obtain a baseline leakdown. It should not be above 10-15% on any cylinder even with new, not broken in, rings. After break-in, this value should be 5% or less dependent upon the rings and pistons used. Hope to see her humming in a video soon, nice weather is quickly upon us, and I feel so far behind now.
-
Same here Mike, I feel like I am running in circles at the moment with every thing I have going on. I am just ready for a break!
-
Top side almost finished, want to paint the block before I put the harmonic balancer on. right now the plan is to paint the valve cover and push rod cover separately from the rest so I can do the detail work I want to on them. Discovered i am missing another gasket so had to order that today, so now the little things are just dragging things out.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/06/sura4a4y.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/06/ba2emeta.jpg)
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
Coming down the home stretch now Brandon, looking good buddy!
-
Looks great Brandon. Remember to put the valve cover on finger tight for break in, since you will need to set the rockers again once the lifters pump up. I'm assuming hydraulic lifters, correct? At your rate of progress, you should be able to water test within the month. Looks like you also going electric fuel pump?
PS. Those pushrods have got to be the longest ones I've seen on an engine, add fletching and sharpen a tip and ya got a crossbow bolt. He He.
-
Great progress......I think we used to call pistons cans......and when we finished a motor we said "lets light the mill" then again could just be my old memory again??? At any rate the project looks great
-
Thanks Don and Mike.
Lifters are hydraulic, I gave them an oil bath for a couple days and pumped them up with an old pushrod like you suggested Mike. I am actually shooting for a water test either the last weekend in April or the first week of May. I hope we can get a couple decent days with out wind soon so I feel like getting the 120 out of Phoenix, put in the new gimbal bearing, and install the transom plate with the power steering.
-
I will be drilling out the valve cover mounting holes this evening before I paint it so I can use 5/16" socket head screw.
So this is how I came up with the idea.
While I was trying to make some step down studs at work to fit the cover one of the mechanics asked what I was doing. So I explained to him and he said why don't you just get some socket head cap screws, the round head should fit and it would still keep a clean look. I had never thought of that! So I thanked him and went to our hardware vendor here at work and placed a order for 5, 5/16 x 5/8" bolts. should be here by mid morning tomorrow.
I will be doing the valve lash this evening and mounting the carb if I get that far. Wish me Luck!
-
I missed painting a couple parts but that can get done Saturday.
The block is now painted and and the valve lash is done. Hopefully she will be running by the end of the weekend. Weather permitting of course.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/11/mu3ubype.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/11/atezu6un.jpg)
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
NICE!
-
The 140 is now in her old school kicks. I think she looks pretty good! I might sand and polish the distributor this afternoon just to keep the clean look.
My goal for this evening is to get everything buttoned up. And if its not raining tomorrow, I am going to light her up in the afternoon.
Wish me luck!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/13/e8uva6eq.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/13/ga9e3a8y.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/13/e2ugavyq.jpg)
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
Looks pretty spiffy Brandon, nice work! (When's the last time your heard that word?!)
-
Looks good, cant wait to hear it run. I especially like the custom all black Mercury Racing sparkplugs, should be good for an extra 1/2 MPH. He He.
-
I have a question, if I prime the oil system today but don't start it will I need to prime it again if I let it sit a couple days? I really don't want to expose the engine to temps in the 20s to 30s during break in.
-
I have a question, if I prime the oil system today but don't start it will I need to prime it again if I let it sit a couple days? I really don't want to expose the engine to temps in the 20s to 30s during break in.
Really?
-
I have a question, if I prime the oil system today but don't start it will I need to prime it again if I let it sit a couple days? I really don't want to expose the engine to temps in the 20s to 30s during break in.
Really?
Yes Jerry, it was 44 degrees and raining when I got up this.morning. it is now 34 degrees and its snowing. Supposed to be 25 by 6pm and the wind is blowing 40mph. Gotta love living in Nebraska, it was 80 degrees here yesterday and 68 when we got home at 4am this morning.
-
Its only been snowing 15 minutes and its already building up in the grass! Ugh!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/14/6ype8ege.jpg)
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
After getting 3 inches of snow I decided to take my time and button up the 140 and double check everything I could. So tomorrow night I will be firing the 140 up for the first time. Wish me luck!
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/14/ty9e2a4a.jpg)
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
Well I tried starting the 140 up this evening to do the cam break in with no success. She popped at me a couple times but she would not fire. I have set and reset the distributor so the rotor faces the #1 cylinder and post at TDC at 0 degrees. I am calling it a night and I am going to wait for the weekend to try again. I am thinking that it is where I am setting my rotor at but I am unsure at this point. Any advice would be appricated.
-
You at #1 TDC on compression stroke or exhaust? I bet your 180 off. Make sure you got spark ?
-
Yep I checked spark, and I did reverse it 180° that is when I had the best results. I am wondering if it is spinning fast enough to start.
-
I am going to pull the push rod cover tomorrow and make sure I am on the #1 compression stroke. Also, I have a question, should I be able to do a compression test on a newly built engine and get pressure readings? I tried my compression tester and did not get any readings on my gauge.
-
unless the valves aren't closing you should have perfect compression. Maybe you should pull the valve cover. Maybe you have solid lifters adjusted for hydraulics? Can you blow air into the cylinders?
-
unless the valves aren't closing you should have perfect compression. Maybe you should pull the valve cover. Maybe you have solid lifters adjusted for hydraulics? Can you blow air into the cylinders?
I was wondering if the valves are staying open. I heard some hissing through the exhaust which sounded like cylinder compression releasing through the exhaust. Maybe I have my valve lash adjustment off. I followed the instructions in my manual to the T. I wonder if I over did it and it is causing the valves to hang open? I will have to try blowing air into the cylinders to see if they are leaking.
I have one more question, in my book it said to do the valve lash to spin the pushrod as you tighten the rocker until the push rod stops spinning and then tighten it three quarter turn. Is this the correct procedure?
-
I just want to thank those of you that posted with ideas and thoughts on how to solve my issues with this build. You have confirmed my thoughts and reinstilled confondance in my abilities. Thank you my friends, thank you!
-
Did ya find something wrong? Yes, even a brand new engine will pass a compression and leak down test. Your procedure of tightening the rocker arm while spinning the pushrod is sound, but a recheck of the lash is recomended after first heat soak
-
You may have the lifters collapsed now. I go by overlap (Exhaust close/intake open) when #4 is on overlap adj #1. bring the rockers down to zero, then 3/4 turn. the push-rods may be a bad indicator of zero lash. then the rest 2 overlap do 3, 1 overlap do 4, 3 overlap do 2. Overlap happens at TDC exhaust stroke, the opposite cyl is TDC compression. (Use that to set the dist. in the right place) when #4 is on overlap it's firing #1.
-
When we set the valves on my motor iif i recall it was done just after assembly with the lifters not pumped up full of oil.
-
After sleeping on it over night, I am going to reset the valve lash. I am thinking that my valves may be partly open during the compression stroke. I tend to over do things a little when I am working on stuff.
I am planing on measuring the valve springs as they are now and then measure them when they are fully uncompressed, then I will measure them again after doing the valve lash and compare the first and last measurement to see if I have any change.
On a funny note, I had the machine shop balance the rotating assembly. When I first started cranking on the motor I had to look to see if the flywheel coupler was actually rotating. She is spinning so smooth I thought maybe the starter was not working.
-
I'd do a quick compression check too. That should tell you too if a valve is not closing and at least give you an idea of where to start double checking your valve lash.
-
I'd do a quick compression check too. That should tell you too if a valve is not closing and at least give you an idea of where to start double checking your valve lash.
Yep I did that last night and no readings on the gauge so the valve lash is where I am going to start.
-
I doubt they are too tight when they were installed, probably not opening due to a lack of oil, but by now they have had some oil from cranking. At least I hope so. You could prime the system, then crank it over several more times, then set the valves. Also notice the timing marks in relation to the valves on #1 opening and closing. It should be readily appearant where both valves are closed and piston coming up on compression. When the timing marks align on the compression stroke, take note of where the dizzy rotor is pointing to. I would assume the 140 doesnt care which cylinder is plumbed to which distributor position, that the order is correct. On my beloved VW's, they retarded #3 cylinder 3 degrees to keep it cool. I got your VM, I will try to call later. I'm in Chicago for the week.
-
if you know the timimng marks on the cam gear a aligned like they are suposed to be, it's real simple to adjust the valves, pumped up with oil or not, I always pump up the lifters before I install them, I also prime the oil system with a dummy distributor before installing the real dist.
if the timing marks are aligned, pull the valve cover and the sparkers, rotate the motor clockwise with a ratchet and socket on the front of the crank, watch #1 ntake valve, when it opens and begins to close, thats is a compression stroke, I use a skew stick, or 1/4 dowel, to find tdc, set the distributor to #1 spark plug there, then advance it about 1/4 and snug the dist, while I'm rotating the motor, and the stick goes down as far as it will, just before it starts back up, that verifies the tdc timing mark on the harmonic balancer. From tdc on the #1 cylinder, you can adjust both intake and exhaust valves, just back off the adjusting nuts till they are free of the valve stem, then rotate the pushrod with your first finger and thumb, turn down the adjusting nut until you feel the spring resistance of the lifter, thats "0" tolerance, then follow your firing order, and the next cylinder is coming to tdc, use the stick, tdc, and adjust those valves also, so on the other two cyl's.
prime the carb, pour gas in it, just know you got gas, that puppy will fire up immediately if you got spark.
-
Thank you Red, you actually explained it better than my book did. It is so nice having so many friends with knowledge of engines and rebuilding boats. I will give my valve lash another try tomorrow after work.
I am taking the night off from boat work, Amber is not at work for once so I get to have some one to talk to. :-)
-
Valve overlap on the opposite cylinder is much easier. You don't need to stick anything in the cylinder. If you ever ran a dragster ya learn how to have it set right before you fire it up.
-
Valve overlap on the opposite cylinder is much easier. You don't need to stick anything in the cylinder. If you ever ran a dragster ya learn how to have it set right before you fire it up.
Jerry, maybe you and Dottie should have stopped by on your way home and helped me with my build.
-
Ya learn by doing. Did you put a new cam or lifters in? Are you sure they're hydraulics?
-
Ya learn by doing. Did you put a new cam or lifters in? Are you sure they're hydraulics?
Yes you do Jerry. The machine shop got me the stock cam and lifter set for my 140. Funny thing every thing from the pistons, rods, and lifters are all stock 350sbc. Well the pistons are now .30 over.
-
Valve overlap on the opposite cylinder is much easier. You don't need to stick anything in the cylinder. If you ever ran a dragster ya learn how to have it set right before you fire it up.
it's not a dragster Jerry, it's an iron duke, and the stick is a simple reference, why complicate it ?
Oh .. by the way, how many of my motors have you seen bust off on an initial start, on video, maybe I'm not doing it right, the last one I had to hit the starter twice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nifgi80_hjA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nifgi80_hjA)
-
Valve overlap on the opposite cylinder is much easier. You don't need to stick anything in the cylinder. If you ever ran a dragster ya learn how to have it set right before you fire it up.
it's not a dragster Jerry, it's an iron duke, and the stick is a simple reference, why complicate it ?
Oh .. by the way, how many of my motors have you seen bust off on an initial start, on video, maybe I'm not doing it right, the last one I had to hit the starter twice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nifgi80_hjA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nifgi80_hjA)
Actually that is a common mistake calling the 140 an iron duke. The mercruiser 120 is based off of the iron duke, while the 140s or 181cid as GM lists them was never used in an automotive application. It was designed as an industrial engine only. It was used in everything from forklifts, irrigation power units, to boats and other industrial applications.
On that note, I have done way to much research on the 140. ;D
-
Its alive! Its alive! Will post video later.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/18/7yha5udy.jpg)
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
there was several applications for the 153cid and the 181cid 4 cyls in automotive and racing applications, from the early/mid seventies, to the later model 3.0 most common in boats, the first of the 140's was a 153cid, with a 4 barrel carb, year or two later it was a 181cid @ 140hp, thats is the most common today.
There was even a racing motor in the early 80 they called the iron duke, that had very little resemblance to our boat motors, check them out if you have any douts.
-
I was looking at red 500 metric in Oklahoma with that engine, and the dealer said that engine was a popular find for Sprint Car racers. Very tough and very good torque . I'm not sure if its the same one but he said it ran a Ford 460 head.
-
I was looking at red 500 metric in Oklahoma with that engine, and the dealer said that engine was a popular find for Sprint Car racers. Very tough and very good torque . I'm not sure if its the same one but he said it ran a Ford 460 head.
Yes they were very popular for sprint cars. The head on my 140 is from one of those race engines.
-
I'm not sure if its the same one but he said it ran a Ford 460 head.
The head, rods and pistons on the 470 4 cyl was a early 460cid V8 application, and to raise the comprssion on one of the 470s with-out changing pistons, you could install an early 429 head, but cooling was a problem then, because of the closed cooling system
-
Well here they are, it is running excellent! After redoing the valve lash she fired right up!
http://youtu.be/UN3I9Wt2lCc (http://youtu.be/UN3I9Wt2lCc)
http://youtu.be/7cSsuAbM6Ps (http://youtu.be/7cSsuAbM6Ps)
http://youtu.be/JHegWuNEYP8 (http://youtu.be/JHegWuNEYP8)
-
Sounds great. Bolt her in!
-
Sounds great. Bolt her in!
Thanks Jerry! After my debacle with it on tuesday I was literally jumping for joy.
Hope to install it by the middle of next week. I need to paint the bilge install a new gimbal bearing and install the power steering. Then the 140 can go in. Oh, I will order the engine decal set this week.
-
Nice work Brandon!!!
-
Well done Brandon, I'll bet you slept a lot better last night!
-
Well done Brandon, I'll bet you slept a lot better last night!
yes i did Mark, but now the anticipation is killing me on getting Phoenix all put back together again. :D
-
Congratulations Brandon. The rewards of a lot of hard work.
-
Looks and sounds great Brandon, ain't it great when it all comes together :D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
-
Awesome.
You are now a 140 expert. Congrats!
-
Well it continues. Went to go do my second valve lash tonight remove the spark plugs, found the number 4 to be coated in carbon and fuel and to have fuel sitting in the cylinder. remove the valve cover only to find the number 4 exhaust valve rocker nut completely backed off and the rocker arm turn to the side. Everything looks good internally from what I can see with the flashlight on number 4 other than the minor amount of fuel sitting in the cylinder on the piston. My question is should I try to remove the excess fuel from the cylinder before I restart the engine with new plugs after I get new nuts for the rocker arms? All I can say is the rocker arm must of fell off after the run of breaking in the cam and I'm glad that's when it did otherwise I probably wouldn't have an engine.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/20/azujuqus.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/20/3ytybu3y.jpg)
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
I would just crank it over with the plug out to blow out the fuel. Put it back together. Go through valve lash again. Should be fine. Nice thing is it's better for a valve to be stuck closed then open. Won't hit the piston!
I've had this happen to me after putting an engine together before. Nothing was damaged.
-
My guess is you can't just screw the nut on with your fingers, I think you adjusted that valve when the lifters were not on the heal of the cam. If you put the motor on TDC with the #1 exhaust valve just closing, and the intake valve just starting to open you will see the dist. rotor is pointing at #4. That's when you adjust that cylinder. The lifters are always on the heal of the cam when it's firing. Then check overlap on #3 and adjust #2, then #4 TDC and adj #1, then #2 and adjust #3. You just can't have it not adjusted right if you do it that way. ANY OTHER WAY AND YOU"RE GUESSING!
-
Look at the the push rod real carefully to make sure it's not bent too. And that the lifter is still seated correctly.
-
Jerry, honestly the lock but screw on by hand! No tools required. And believe it or not my local O'Reillys is open on Easter so I order 8 new lock nuts to cover my azz to prevent this from happening again. Oh I am going to order two sets of spark plugs just in case they get that over fueled black carbonized look again. I should go buy a vacume gauge kit so I get the carb set correctly, plus it might help because I have never adjusted a carb before this engine.
-
Look at the the push rod real carefully to make sure it's not bent too. And that the lifter is still seated correctly.
Will do, I was planning on checking the pushrod on my ten inch table saw top since it is the truest surface I own. I was also going to pull the push rod cover to be safe when I redo the valve lash.
-
Just checked the pushrod it is still in perfect shape.
-
Good!
You can't really adjust much on these 2v carbs. Just idle mixture and you need to be in the water to do that. Other than that just idle speed.
-
Just a quick up date, engine was not injured after the rocker arm nut came loose compression is running at 180 psi across all four cylinders when cold. On another note I found one more nut that was working its way loose on the #1 intake valve so it is a good thing I replaced them all.
-
Now you have learned first hand why certain parts should not be reused. Nylocks and other locking fasteners lose their locking strength and should not be reused. a valuable lesson to all. I hope to see her humming soon! A table saw deck would probably be better than what I use, a segment of granite countertop or sheet of glass to roll pushrods on.
-
Good work Brandon!
engine looks and sounds really good! have you got her in yet?
-
They use to make a rocker nut that was long and had a set screw in the end, so you could adjust the rocker and lock the nut down.
-
Well tomorrow is the day. Phoenix Rising will be hitting the water tomorrow morning for her initial test run with the 140 and the power steering system. All I can say is I am both a little nervous and excited and praying everything works!
Wish me luck!!!!!!
-
Best of luck Brandon ...
Hope every thing go's smooth so you can start on your CVZ !
Don't forget the drain plug ... LOL
-
Good luck!
Have a good time
-
Thanks guys, I prechecked everything. I even filled the hull with water to check for any possible leaks. (Since I had one last year). And good news there was none! Love the power steering out of the water(wheel turns as smooth as butter), can't wait to use it while on plane!
Hope to have more good news tomorrow!
-
Great time on Sherman reservoir this morning. Gotta say I love having power steering! I now have more control over phoenix rising than I ever have. She now turns on a dime. And the 140 has plenty of power to spare. Right now around half throttle I am running 3500 rpm with my 21p laser II, I think after break in is done I will be trying a 23 or 25p prop. I will post videos later Travis and Crystal got some good ones.
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
-
Great time on Sherman reservoir this morning. Gotta say I love having power steering! I now have more control over phoenix rising than I ever have. She now turns on a dime. And the 140 has plenty of power to spare. Right now around half throttle I am running 3500 rpm with my 21p laser II, I think after break in is done I will be trying a 23 or 25p prop. I will post videos later Travis and Crystal got some good ones.
Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
Great News!
sounds like she is running well. I look forward to the videos :)
-
I'm glad everything's working good for you now! I'm sure it's a good feeling to get it out on the water now. Your pictures on FB showed a pretty big smile on your face! ;D