Author Topic: Another day, another Carlson...  (Read 63734 times)

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Offline OleRed

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2011, 09:44:57 PM »
Quote
Plus all kinds of other goodies that are not necessary to a stroker...

                                           ???
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Offline OleRed

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2011, 10:10:11 PM »
actually, they do call it a stroker because the bigger crankshaft gives it a longer stroke, more cubic inches, making it 383 cubic inches from a 350 block.  Chevy made a small block 400 cid motor for a couple years in the 70's, the 400 had what some call a siamese cylinder design, meaning it didn't have water passages between the cylinders, just a couple little "steam hole" which resulted in a lot of them overheating under a continous load, the crankshaft in those motors have a larger main journel, bigger diameter, 1/4 longer rod throws, and weighed a bit more than a 350 crank. So .. there is a lot of other sruff that must be done to make it work, the chankshaft must be turned down to the size of the 350 journels, and some of the counter weights can be cut down, maiing it a little lighter, but still,  the 350 block must be ground out some for the 400 crankshaft to fit, so it will rotate with-out hitting the bottom of the cylinders, the side's of the case, and the cam must be ground differently so the rod bolts don't hit it.  Because there is 383 cubic inches, if you are going to get the performance it's built for, it needs more carb than the 350, like from a 600cfm carb, to a 650 cfm, and because it's got to breath freely, it needs bigger valves, and a free flowing exhaust system, and an ignition systen capable of burning more gas.  The main purpose I'm build the stroker is because it has over 100 more pounds of torque, thats what I need for my boat,  the one I'm building should have at least 500 pounds of torque, thats what puts the boats up on plane faster, the 350 has 350 /370 pounds of torque.
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Offline Rosscoe

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2011, 10:17:20 PM »
Quote
Plus all kinds of other goodies that are not necessary to a stroker...

                                           ???
What I meant was that you and wex are doing other things like the aluminum goodies (flywheels, exhaust) etc) that can be done to anything and are not necessarily "stroker" stuff. Its the bottom end and bore that really make it a stroker, correct?
Ross
61 Surflite 1964 90HP Johnson project
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73 GT 160
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Offline wexrocks

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2011, 10:34:14 PM »
Quote
Plus all kinds of other goodies that are not necessary to a stroker...

                                           ???
What I meant was that you and wex are doing other things like the aluminum goodies (flywheels, exhaust) etc) that can be done to anything and are not necessarily "stroker" stuff. Its the bottom end and bore that really make it a stroker, correct?

correct! and Red is spot on, as always. the nice thing is that now, they make aftermarket cranks, pistons, rods and cams that are designed to build a 383, so it takes alot less machining than it used to, and it's easier to build a balanced bottom end.

but as far as "necessary" stuff... that depends on who you ask!  ;) either OleRed or I will tell ya that aftermarket heads, cams, intakes, carbs, and the like are ABSOLUTELY necessary! but, we're a couple of power-hungry good 'ol boys who love buying gas, and watching passengers look around for somethin' to hold on to!  ;D

pics coming tomorrow... I'm gettin' excited... REAL excited!
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Offline OleRed

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2011, 10:38:09 PM »
that Kinda right Ross, but, the motors Steve and I are using to build the stroker is a little different that the original stroker design, we are using the later model 5.7 blocks, roller cams, and vortec style heads, kinda, and the crank shafts have a one piece rear main seal, these motors are externally balanced, as was the old style 400's were, but flywheels are different, they are weighted, and the harmonic balancer, but different weights than the 400's were, the rotating assy has to be balanced with the new style flywheels, and of course, lighter is better.  The crank shaft we are using is not really an old style 400 crank, these are made for the stroker motors, they were never really installed in a 400 cid motor.

As far needing the other stuff ... when it cost as much as it does to build one of these baby's ... it's Got to look good, and like I said, Lighter is better in a boat.  I have taken about 200 pounds of weight off this motor by using aluminum, amd the 25 pound flywheel, the original flywheel weighed 47 pounds, even the 4.3 flywheel weighs 34 pounds, but it works just fine on a stroker, just less weight.
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Offline OleRed

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2011, 10:43:20 PM »
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Offline n0ukf

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2011, 10:48:08 PM »
Chevy made a small block 400 cid motor for a couple years in the 70's, the 400 had what some call a siamese cylinder design, meaning it didn't have water passages between the cylinders, just a couple little "steam hole" which resulted in a lot of them overheating under a continous load,

I guess that's what my camper-conversion van has, or were there more than one version of 400 in the '70s? My cousin said something about thin cylinder walls. If I ever have to pull the motor, I might consider dropping to a 350. The only problems I've had so far though are failed cruise control, wire came off the alternator, A/C compressor siezed up, battery ground wire corroded (aluminum, not copper) inside the insulation, a flat tire and a scary spare, and I had to replace the camper vent lid twice from weathering. ;) No problems with the motor itself.
Elliott
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Offline OleRed

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2011, 10:54:44 PM »
Chevy made two styles of the 400 cid motors, they made one in the biig block, like the 454's, and the small blok that looked just like a 350.  the small block chevy has been built since 1955, with very little change's until the late 80's,  a 283 cid, then the 327. 307, a 265, a 302, the 350,and 400's
« Last Edit: September 10, 2011, 10:57:07 PM by OleRed »
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Offline wexrocks

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2011, 11:02:18 PM »
Chevy made a small block 400 cid motor for a couple years in the 70's, the 400 had what some call a siamese cylinder design, meaning it didn't have water passages between the cylinders, just a couple little "steam hole" which resulted in a lot of them overheating under a continous load,

I guess that's what my camper-conversion van has, or were there more than one version of 400 in the '70s? My cousin said something about thin cylinder walls. If I ever have to pull the motor, I might consider dropping to a 350. The only problems I've had so far though are failed cruise control, wire came off the alternator, A/C compressor siezed up, battery ground wire corroded (aluminum, not copper) inside the insulation, a flat tire and a scary spare, and I had to replace the camper vent lid twice from weathering. ;) No problems with the motor itself.

the 400 was a good motor for certain applications, and alot of motorhomes of that day came with them, for good reason. they made ALOT of torque, which is exactly what you want in a big vehicle. in a motorhome, you're not gonna hit high rpm (causing a major cooling issue), but on a hill, the 400 really shines, even with a 2 barrel carb and all stock. and the Impalas that came with them were tire-smoking yachts, and ran with some of the "muscle" cars of the era, even stock. but, in a performance application, cooling does become an issue, and the piston technology was not what it is today, and with that long stroke, there is alot of travel and friction along the cylinder walls, creating a problem. if you go with a 350, you will gain reliability, but you will lose some of that pull on the hills, and you will see it struggle where the 400 didn't. all depends on what you are looking for. to be honest, cost aside, I couldn't imagine a better motor for a motorhome than a mild 383.
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Offline wexrocks

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #49 on: September 10, 2011, 11:20:01 PM »
get excited Steve   ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TjheKZQ-CU

OleRed, if I had a dollar for every time I wached this video... well, I could buy a six-pack and sit and watch it some more!  ;D but yeah, that video inspires me, for sure. can not wait to hear this thing run! and to see what it does in this CSS...  :o
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Offline OleRed

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2011, 11:49:20 PM »
Hey Steve,  I may push mine out and run it again tomorrow, with the 4" elbows rather than the long pipes,  if I do I'll shoot a video of it.  It's still wanting to put those long 4" pipes on it, thru the transom, but there are more and more lakes, patrols, sending the loud boats back to the dock,  I been thinking about running mine back through the "y" pipe, and just using the diverters, if there is enough room ??
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Offline wexrocks

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2011, 12:30:54 AM »
Hey Steve,  I may push mine out and run it again tomorrow, with the 4" elbows rather than the long pipes,  if I do I'll shoot a video of it.  It's still wanting to put those long 4" pipes on it, thru the transom, but there are more and more lakes, patrols, sending the loud boats back to the dock,  I been thinking about running mine back through the "y" pipe, and just using the diverters, if there is enough room ??

honestly, I don't know if there's enough room... until I get the Scimitar together I wouldn't know, but your X dimension is raised and set back, so it would take some serious geometry for me to figure that out!  ;) my gut feeling is f*#k 'em, but obviously that doesn't work in the real world. I know that the Y-pipes and thru prop don't create ALOT of restriction, but it may be enough to foul plugs, load it up, I'm not sure. with a "captain's choice" setup, I guess you could switch over and clean it out if need be (like idling for a while, or no wake zones) but will they bust you the first time you open it up? no idea. I'm lucky where I am, while there are laws about thru-hull exhaust, it's never enforced because there are big-block off-shore boats running up and down my part of the river all the time, so I kinda set my standard by them. a few minutes with a video camera would make a strong case for me for selective enforcement if they ever messed with me, but, that doesn't work for everybody, and different areas are more strict, for sure. I just hope I can bring this CSS to the meet next year without any legal issues... I know Barb doesn't want to see it show up (it's a little Intimidating... hehehe  ;) private joke) but I want to be able to run it, especially after travelling all that way... does anyone know? do they have restrictions there? is it based on exhaust configuration? decible level?
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Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2011, 07:39:47 AM »
There was a joke around camp that Bob (CV21 007) would get two loud exhaust tickets, one for each motor ...
He had to pass a least two DNR, CG, etc. on his way down river Sat.
Bob could get a loud exhaust ticket at a drag strip !

Offline Rosscoe

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2011, 08:32:37 AM »
"He had to pass a least two DNR, CG, etc. on his way down river Sat."

I did not know this.  Apparently he passed! Good deal.
Its really quite unpopulated along most of the river between Red Wing and Lake City so I would think/hope they might be a bit more lenient but you never know.
Ross
61 Surflite 1964 90HP Johnson project
67 V163 Bayflite Super Sport  1989 100HP Merc
67 V164 Bayflite 120HP
67 V174 Crestflite Rat Rod
71 V175 Crestflite 350ci -Jet
73 GT 160
84 CVX 17  83 115 Merc
88 CVX-23 350 Mag

Offline Rosscoe

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2011, 09:28:07 AM »
Chevy made two styles of the 400 cid motors, they made one in the biig block, like the 454's, and the small blok that looked just like a 350.  the small block chevy has been built since 1955, with very little change's until the late 80's,  a 283 cid, then the 327. 307, a 265, a 302, the 350,and 400's
Now I am wondering if I had a big block or small block 400 in the 69 442 W30 I had when I was in my 20's. I always thought it was a big block but didnt know that much back then (and still dont) but I'm learning. Some documentation I had seen said it put out 375 HP from the factory so I'm thinking big block. Being that a previous owner slapped a 3-deuce set up onto it from a 65-66 442, I am thinking small block but it sure looked and acted like a monster. Especially torque wise. 4:56 posi rear helped. The radical cam that was in there would shake the whole car at idle. I could listen to that all day.  ;D It was bad *ass.
Wish I still had it. Black on Black on Black with no power steering, brakes, AC.
OK I know, boats.......
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 09:32:36 AM by Rosscoe »
Ross
61 Surflite 1964 90HP Johnson project
67 V163 Bayflite Super Sport  1989 100HP Merc
67 V164 Bayflite 120HP
67 V174 Crestflite Rat Rod
71 V175 Crestflite 350ci -Jet
73 GT 160
84 CVX 17  83 115 Merc
88 CVX-23 350 Mag

Offline dorelse

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2011, 12:13:42 PM »
Yeah, there was a DNR guy who had already pulled over a boat, and another one hiding in the marina entrance just after the 2nd no wake zone heading South.

They didn't pull him over.
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Offline Jerry

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2011, 04:27:02 PM »
Now I am wondering if I had a big block or small block 400 in the 69 442 W30 I had when I was in my 20's.

They put Oldsmobile motors in 442s Ross.
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Offline Rosscoe

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2011, 05:03:44 PM »
Now I am wondering if I had a big block or small block 400 in the 69 442 W30 I had when I was in my 20's.

They put Oldsmobile motors in 442s Ross.
LOL! I know Jerry but I figured that if there was a GM big and small block 400, that it might carry over into other divisions.
Ross
61 Surflite 1964 90HP Johnson project
67 V163 Bayflite Super Sport  1989 100HP Merc
67 V164 Bayflite 120HP
67 V174 Crestflite Rat Rod
71 V175 Crestflite 350ci -Jet
73 GT 160
84 CVX 17  83 115 Merc
88 CVX-23 350 Mag

Offline Jerry

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2011, 05:36:14 PM »
This was before they put a 3800 in everything, even boats.

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Offline wexrocks

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Re: Another day, another Carlson...
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2011, 06:24:31 PM »
Doran is gonna post some pics for me, I'm still having trouble uploading them to this site for some reason.

looks pretty plain and simple for now. the carb and chrome 4" exhaust tails will add a little "bling", but because of the radar arch on the boat, I have to turn the motor sideways to drop it in, and the less I have bolted on, the better. so I'll finish puting it together in the boat, then post a few more pics. the interesting part will be where I run the exhaust thru. the back of this boat is a funky design, so where the exhaust tails end will pretty much determine the exit point, but I'll make it "cool" and functional one way or another...

Eye Candy added:



« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 06:57:53 PM by dorelse »
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