Author Topic: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid  (Read 321 times)

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Offline UKMike

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Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« on: February 05, 2019, 02:18:02 PM »
Hi there all,

Hope you are all well?

I need some advise and if anyone could help I'd really appreciate it. I have the Glastron Carlson CVX16 and I am rebuilding the Tilt and Trim  unit including the oil seals and motor, it's an eaton motor and thankfully I managed to get "what looks like the last NOS Armature and End Kit" left is the states. It's arrived and all is put together now but the old unit had a red fluid, I believe this was ATF fluid but the manual says not to use it. Problem is that I have rebuilt another unit as a spare with new seals and I put Quicksilver Tilt and Trim fluid in it as recommended by my Merc dealer but even with new seals it doesn't hold the motor up without dropping down under pressure. The Tilt and Trim fluid is thinner that the red fluid and I think this is why.

Can anyone advise?

Best
UKMike

Offline Jason

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 02:39:16 PM »
I doubt the trim fluid type has anything to do with your leak down issue. I would just what they recommend. If it still leaking down after installing new seals then maybe the shaft has pitting or is worn. Not familiar with the V6 trim but could it be a bad check valve in the trim pump???
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline UKMike

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 02:49:14 PM »
Thanks Jason,

Have replaced all the internals except the main ram but there is no pitting and more importantly no leakage, which would be apparent if it was a worn ram. I have 2 units, both purchased in the UK but they both had red fluid in them, I have re-kitted them both out with new seals, pumps and motors, I haven't tested the second one yet but I expect the same as the trim and tilt fluid is definitely thinner than what was in both. I assume both trim units came from the states so I'm trying to find out what would have been used historically for the 1980 in such units.

It may be that there is internal wear due to thicker fluids being used over a period of time but I doubt it, in my experience the seals and valve rubbers wear first.

Really lost for thoughts now...

Best
Mike

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 03:51:04 PM »
Do you have a Merc repair manual ?
Have you bleed the system as per manual ?
Gregg
'76 CV16

Offline UKMike

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2019, 05:02:01 PM »
Hi Gregg,

Thank you and hope you are well, did you get the "water issue sorted"?

Yes done all that, but the manual I purchased form Merc was a reprint manual and I got it through Max Rules and it doesn't make it clear about the Fluid for the Trim unit. It's quite vague and that info you have posted is exactly what I needed, thanks my friend, it was as I expected, the older units used a thicker fluid than the newer T&T fluid from QS. Currently with the new QS T&T fluid I can leave the engine up for hours before it moves down and it will only move say 6mm but when I'm out on the water and I throttle to WOT the engine wont hold the trim from long. I'm going to get some of the ATF fluid and try that. I understand I will need to bleed and clean out all the existing fluid but I think that;s the issue. If not, I'll look at getting a new unit, but I'm trying to keep her all original US build, trying not to get UK/EU replacement units/parts.

Best
Mike

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2019, 07:44:18 PM »
Yep Found a crack in my hull, got floor out, just waiting for warmer weather to repair.

Hope that works ..
Did I send you a link to my repair manual ?
I think it a aftermarket and not an official Mercury manual though ...
Gregg
'76 CV16

Offline UKMike

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2019, 06:34:14 AM »
Wow glad you got it worked out and thanks yes you did, I hadn't looked at the link you sent me in this instance as I thought mine would be more accurate or at least the same, but I guess not!

Thanks again Gregg and hope you get the boat sorted before the new season.

We are coming up to the new season here so I'm getting everything together ready and have decided I'm going to have the floor and woodwork done, with a full re-spray next closed season, the quotes I have already are in excess of 10,000 so might do part of the work myself...

Best
Mike

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2019, 01:46:14 PM »
Yes .. Look thru manual I sent you, could be better then the one you have .. Maybe LOL
I replaced the valve and O-rings on the relife valve (forgot correct name) and got temporary holding.

See picture with red arrow pointing to valve
Gregg
'76 CV16

Offline UKMike

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2019, 05:14:47 PM »
Thanks Gregg,

I already replaced that, bought all new OEM seals and relief valve, full kit but didn't remove the issue with the leak down on pressure, BUT great news, I did some research based on your last post with the older info and it seems the old Tilt & Trim units like mine actually do work much more efficiently with ATF-A or equivalent, and the seals throughout need the older mineral based lubes to really be top performance. I've spent over 20hrs reading about the older tilt and trim units and luckily I got some info from a site in the states that advised backward compatible fluids. It said something like the old ATF-A fluids were made from Whale oil and "what's now classed as other endangered species" so it was stopped being used BUT they found another mineral replacement. The say the closest to it is ATF Dexron 2 as this is mineral, and they advised against Dexron 3 as that is synthetic, and they say the older units and the seals still out there for the older units, need the mineral based oils or they don't work well and the seals melt in no time.

I've drained the unit and replaced with ATF Dex 2 and it's totally different, the pressure is much higher and the ram is solid, and has been extended for 29 hours now with no pressure drop. It's not currently under full resistance so may compress in those conditions but the new fluid seems to have done the job. I'll definitely put this in the other second unit I have as a spare.

Thanks again to all the great folks for all your support, great support community on here>>>

Best
Mike. 

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2019, 06:13:13 PM »
Glad it worked !
My trim holds but the tilt will leak down after about one half hour.
Needs a rebuild ...
Gregg
'76 CV16

Offline UKMike

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2019, 05:00:06 AM »
Just looking at yours, is that an eaton motor on the pump? A square or round one? looks the same as mine from what I can see, how old is the unit on yours?

I managed to buy a few OEM seal kits including check valve kits 41482A 2 for the main ram. Did a full rebuild on one unit and part rebuild on the second unit and I can tell you I searched everywhere for these parts, they are few and far between now so if you do rebuild let me know as I might have some spare new OEM kits.

What fluid do you have in yours? Might be worth thinking about the ATF-Dex 2. I'll dig out the links to the sites where I got the info from if it helps?

Just a thought but if the seals you have work a touch and you're getting leak down, you wont hurt anything if you drain what you currently have in the unit and replace with Dex 2 as it may well give you a few more seasons before needing to rebuild.

Over here the price of the Quicksilver tilt and trim fluid is about $30 per 1L yet the dex 2 is $25 per 5L

Let me know if you want the links info anytime or if you do rebuild and you need any kits.

Best
Mike.   
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 05:07:02 AM by UKMike »

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2019, 09:38:22 AM »
It looks like a square motor, it's a 1989 Mariner 115 HP motor. Not sure what is in it for fluid.
I replaced the relief valve and O-rings and checked fluid level, which was fine. Then bled system as per Merc manual.
It work for about a year, then started leaking down again.

I found a temporary fix for transporting    LOL
Gregg
'76 CV16

Offline UKMike

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2019, 10:16:04 AM »
Yep looks like an Eaton motor to me, and is your fluid red or clear?

If it's clear I would absolutely bet the Dexron 2 would fix that issue.

Sounds exactly the same as the issue I had, even with new seals...

Best
Mike

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Mercury V6 Tilt and Trim fluid
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2019, 12:44:23 PM »
Pretty sure it was red .. Was three years ago .. and I can't remember things I did 15 min. ago
I'm going to bleed it again, and see if it helps for a bit longer.
Gregg
'76 CV16