Author Topic: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !  (Read 627 times)

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Offline thewillets

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Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« on: July 10, 2019, 11:13:40 PM »
I foolishly started tearing into our 1965 Futura 500 a few weeks ago and now I am not sure I will get it done in time for the annual meetup.

At the last gathering some people seemed concerned about what might be lurking under the surface.  Some of you may remember me (Neil) and my son Blake from the Mankato area.

I noticed this spring that the boat smelled very musty even after sitting in storage over the winter and the floor between the seats and the engine cover already had some soft spots.

I decided to pull the seats, engine cover and carpet and remove the rear 2 feet of the floor.

Yikes, that was like opening the proverbial can of worms !

I literally found standing water several inches deep trapped in that section and unable to escape to the engine section and the drain at the stern.  This was water from last year and prior.

There were large bags of Styrofoam 6 feet long laying under the floor which were also holding large amounts of water.  I pulled these bags out and tossed them, they must have weighed at least 15 pounds each.

I also noted that the wood stringers were completely waterlogged and way too far gone to not replace them, also the fiberglass holding them in place wasn't sticking to them anymore, at least where I could see.

So now I was committed, I certainly couldn't put it back together like that so I bit the bullet and cut out the remaining floor and the areas on each side of the engine compartment.  I also removed the fiberglass that was trapping the wooden front motor mount support.

I supported the motor and removed the mount from the front of the engine, the fan belt was the original Keikaufer (wow) so I replaced that.  When I pulled the bolts that went into the wood 2x6 it looked good on the surface but it was basically more like balsa and came out in pieces.

I removed the stringers all the way from the area along the front side of the engine bay area forward to the "wall" under the dash where it was all solid and dry.  I didn't want to attempt to separate the top half of the hull as it looks like it was all glassed together with the bottom section after they were mated together and I didn't want to tackle that for a couple feet of the stringers that were nice and solid and well glassed.

I did manage to save enough of the soggy old stringers to use as a template so I purchased some 1x8 cedar boards and cut them to fit after removing all but the bottom 1/2" of the fibeglass "slots" that held them in place.  I also found a nice dense 2x6 cedar board and replaced the front motor support and bolted the front mount back in place.

I power washed all the old nasty crap from the hull and I plan to use a sanding wheel to prep the floor to fiberglass the new cedar pieces in place ready to accept the new floor.

Here is where i need the help, I have been reading about the projects some of the others have done and it is clear there is a lot of expertise that I would certainly appreciate.

I was going to order some fiberglass but it will take time and maybe someone near me wants to sell some that they won't need.  If I do order some, I could use some advice on what to order and from where.  I am also considering purchasing a fiberglass sheet instead of marine grade plywood but I forgot the place I saw it, I think it is near Fargo ND.

I look forward to any help you all might be able to give me, I would really like to get this done in time to make the gathering in August.

Regards,
Neil
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 03:47:08 PM by thewillets »
1965 Futura 500

Offline Oldfishguy

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! HELP !
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2019, 07:58:09 AM »
Most of us have gone through what your doing, so we feel your pain.  The flooring in these boats simply was not made to last this long.  Keep at it your past the ugly part.

A few things.  There are many ways to redo the flooring with various materials, pick one and move on.  I would probably do the top with some sort of sheeting rather than individual boards.  The individual boards will just be a bit of work because you are going to coat all edges with resin to seal it up.  Although the cedar strip method would work.

And use Express Composites for your material needs.

Hard to believe at this point but it is a lot of fun.

Best of luck.

David

http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5298.0



« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 07:59:50 AM by Oldfishguy »
1972 1/2 Glastron CV 16
1973 Chrysler 120

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! HELP !
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2019, 09:21:44 AM »
I have heard fiberglass / resin won't stick well to cedar, maybe other will respond about it.
I went to Express Composites with a general idea of what I needed .. and they fixed me up with everything and the right amount of materials.
I did have to get more resin, but that was because I didn't tell them about coating seat bases and some trim boards.
Give them a call .. Tell them what your doing.

https://www.expresscomposites.com/
Gregg
'76 CV16

Offline dorelse

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! HELP !
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2019, 09:23:46 AM »
The same 'oily' nature that makes cedar water resistant, also prevents good, permanent bonding to resin & fiberglass...I'd rethink that wood choice.
1990 Sierra 1700

Offline Jason

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! HELP !
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2019, 10:03:48 AM »
Can't give you much advise on the fiberglass work but make sure after to set the front motor mount again that you pull the outdrive and do a gimbal alignment with a gibal ring alignment too. Pretty easy to do.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercruiser-Alpha-Bravo-OMC-Boat-Engine-Alignment-Tool-USA-made-Fast-Shipping/270940004316?hash=item3f15485fdc:g:9KQAAOSwZ4RcLn7z
Jason S.
1974 Glastron Carlson CV16SS 140 I/O
1986 Glastron Carlson CV23 260 I/O

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! HELP !
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2019, 10:39:06 AM »
I have heard the same about the Cedar.
You definitely want to use sheet material for the floor, I believe that is an Integral part of the structure of a boat.
And as everyone else’s said talk to the guys at express composites.
If it were my project I would also plan on expanding foam in the floor.
are you certain that the transom is solid and dry ?


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Joe
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment"
75 CV-16V8, Project
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Offline thewillets

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! HELP !
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2019, 05:44:59 PM »
Thanks for the feedback !
Interesting point about the Cedar, I picked it due to resistance to rot now I will have to consider if it will bond properly.
Regarding the flooring, I think that place in ND sells 5x10 1/2" sheets of fiberglass for flooring.  Since the widest part of the floor is less than 4' I could probably use the remaining strips for the stringers, they only need to be 7' long.
As for alignment, it shouldn't have changed much, I measured before and after and it is pretty much dead on.  I think it probably moved around more due to the old spongy mount than it will be off now, at least it is solid.
I will contact express composites right away if nobody has any they want to unload.
I have some small chips in the hull that I thought I would touch up, will the "composite" material work for that ?
I won't be flipping it over or anything, just sanding the chip hole out clean, dabbing it in and sanding smooth.
I was actually thinking of using expanding foam along the bottom section, I think I read that people like "Quick Set" which is kind of a replacement for setting posts ?
I also will be providing a method for water to get out of the front section and drain all the way out the back, that was a really poor choice by Glastron to create a "wall" between the front and back like that.
The transom looks pretty good from what I can tell, we have had the boat since the early 70's and it has always been on a lift with the plug out or garaged in the winter, everything back of that "wall" seems really good.
I pulled all the old soggy or dry rotted plywood out and no more musty smell.
Any other recommendations ?
Thanks,
Neil
1965 Futura 500

Offline thewillets

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2019, 03:55:34 PM »
Talked to the guys at express composites and I think I can get what I need fairly quickly so I plan to double down this weekend and get the sanding done and have the boat ready for resin next weekend.
They told me that the Cedar should not be a problem as they have done many projects with Cedar without issues.
I have worked with Cedar in the past and I have seen some that is more "oily" but fortunately this stuff has been on the shelf at Menards for a long time and is nice and "dry" so I think it will be OK.
Express composites also has 2 part closed cell foam so they are a 1 stop shop for everything but the floor.
I still need to get up to ND and get the floor but I will somehow fit that into my busy schedule !
I lost time out of town over the 4th and I had to put a new clutch in Blake's truck (tow vehicle) last weekend so it has been a scramble.
Blake really enjoyed the gathering last year so I am pushing hard to make the deadline.
Neil
1965 Futura 500

Offline dorelse

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2019, 04:19:19 PM »
Good deal on the cedar...it would make sense that if its properly dry, it'll be fine.

Time to get'r done!
1990 Sierra 1700

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2019, 01:48:09 PM »
I too have believed the information regarding cedar and resin, always believed they were not compatible.  If the folks at express gave you info to the contrary, I'd tend to believe them over the internet info. 
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
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2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline thewillets

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2019, 11:51:48 AM »
I am looking at 2 part expanding foam to pour into the section under the floor.
This foam does not need to support the floor.
Express Composites has 2lb and 5lb.
1965 Futura 500

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2019, 01:53:59 PM »
You want 2lb foam, any denser is a waste. 
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline thewillets

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2019, 02:59:17 PM »
Blake just picked up everything needed for the project except the floor, I will get that next weekend.
Went with the 2lb, thanks for the advice.
Looks like I know what I am doing all weekend !
1965 Futura 500

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2019, 03:14:21 PM »
That Marine foam will really expand a bunch at 90+ degrees outside.  Experiment with small batches first since it's best if the skin it forms is not cut.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline still_fishin

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2019, 05:17:18 PM »
You want 2lb foam, any denser is a waste.
Because I don't know any better,  why?

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Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2019, 10:54:21 PM »
Pourable foam comes in a variety of densities for different purposes.  The final density is based on how much reaction/expansion occurs after mixing.  The density, 2lb relates to the weight of a cubic foot of expanded material.  So in boats, we want as much displacement per product cost.  Given the same size kits, 2lb foam will occupy twice the space as 4lb will.   Temperature is very important, when I pour in a 55 degree garage in winter, I warm the foam AandB components to 80 in a warm water bath to insure they react proper.        Anyway, sorry to hijack the thread.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline Plugcheck

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2019, 10:58:33 PM »
Some folks say higher density foam resists water absorbsion better, which might be plausible.  Given the material cost, I personally like more displacement per dollar.
Michael
1979 CVZ-18 388 CI Vortec Mouse
1980 CVX-16SS 140 Mercruiser
1979 CVX-16 Johnson 175
2002 Bennington 2275CC 90 Mercury
1985 Intimidator project
1989 Lowe 200 Redneck fishin Toon
2001 Godfrey Sweetwater pontoon 115 Rude

Offline still_fishin

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2019, 03:45:23 AM »
Ok, thanks Mike.

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Offline thewillets

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2019, 04:34:50 PM »
I will keep the temperature in mind to try to get maximum expansion.
I agree that it is best to have the "skin" on the foam so the water will have a thicker skin to prevent absorption.
Thanks for the tip.
Neil
1965 Futura 500

Offline thewillets

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Re: Whoops, clock is ticking ! There is HOPE !
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2019, 04:36:28 PM »
Whoops, forgot to ask ...
Anyone have a link to the place in North Dakota who makes the Fiberglass sheets for the boat floor ?
I can't seem to find the thread and I want to call them tomorrow.
Thanks,
Neil
1965 Futura 500