Author Topic: Radio idea...  (Read 17111 times)

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Offline 75starflight

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2013, 08:31:27 PM »
I purchased a Jensen heavy duty radio for Phoenix Rising. Also purchased 4 40w 4.5" sony speakers. And it has more than enough power to distort the speakers when I did a bench test.

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Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2013, 10:20:25 PM »
There is no problem on the back side it is only about 1 1/2 or less thick. And by mounting it in the pad you could just reupholster the pad and would never know there is a hole. Same with the dept gauge on the other side. I am the opposite Doran I love music and always have a radio on even if it is just back ground noise and i am not listing to it
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Full Resto complete
1976 CV-16 V8 Resto in progress
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft

Offline WetRaider

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2013, 10:35:30 PM »
Just to be picky because I'm too far away for Brandon's backhand ... speakers don't have any power.  They can't be 40 watt speakers - their output is measured in dB, not watts.  Watts = Amperes x Voltage.  Just for fun, if you plugged a speaker directly into the wall outlet, you'd get a crazy buzz for half a second and you'd smell a fried voice coil.  If you have a subwoofer with an ability to dissipate heat, it will actually play a 60 hz note for a little while before it finally burns out.  Back to your Sony speakers ... If you give them a pure signal, with no distortion, you can play them with 400 watts of power at no real risk of damage.  Too many people buy speakers based on the "watts" rating ...

The unit to watch for on speakers is sensitivity.  Ideally, you want one above 90 dB ... this is the volume tested with 1 watt of power at a distance of one meter on axis with the center of the speaker cone.  The lower the sensitivity, the more power you need to make the cone move.  The old rule of thumb was that you could double your power and measure a 3 dB increase in volume - so with a constant 40 watt amplifier and two different speakers (one's sensitivity rated at 87 dB, the other at 90 dB), you would have to double the power on the 87 dB speaker to have the same output.  If the difference were more extreme, like 87 dB and 93 dB, you'd have to go from 40 watts to 160 watts (3 dB gain from 40 to 80, doubled again to 160 for the second 3 dB) on the 87 dB speaker to play at the same volume as the 93 dB speaker on 40 watts.  
If you didn't get wet, you didn't have fun ~ WetRaider

Dan O'Connor
1979 GT 150 / 1976 Mercury 1150

Offline WetRaider

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2013, 10:39:26 PM »
Boy that made me sound like an ass.  Apologies all the way around ... audio is a hobby I can get carried away with. 
If you didn't get wet, you didn't have fun ~ WetRaider

Dan O'Connor
1979 GT 150 / 1976 Mercury 1150

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2013, 10:46:21 PM »
Dan...
dont get DB talk from too many people
when we get together the rest of them will prob throw us in the lake  ;)
Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
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Offline 75starflight

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2013, 10:59:44 PM »
Sorry 40 watts Max. And yes throwing in the lake sounds good. :D
1975 v-179 starflite

Offline dorelse

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2013, 11:08:10 PM »
Well, don't get me wrong Shawn...I love music, I just tend to get to on the water so rarely that I love hearing the engine and the wind, etc.

I've watched bellj's youtube video's enough times to think that I might like a radio this year.  Plus, I made a commitment to install 'fun' stuff this year on Goldie so I can see the fruits of my 3 years of effort.
1990 Sierra 1700

Offline Bayflite73

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2013, 11:20:21 PM »
There is no problem on the back side it is only about 1 1/2 or less thick. And by mounting it in the pad you could just reupholster the pad and would never know there is a hole. Same with the dept gauge on the other side. I am the opposite Doran I love music and always have a radio on even if it is just back ground noise and i am not listing to it

We'll just pull up along side you and all enjoy the tunes!
Josh Craig
'78 SSV-177
previously owned: '73 V-174 Bayflite

Offline V153

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2013, 04:36:43 PM »
Dan...
dont get DB talk from too many people
when we get together the rest of them will prob throw us in the lake  ;)
My Dad woulda liked you guys. He could talk decibels all day long.
'81 C500_given away, bought back_75.1 mph
'81 Baja 15SS_140 Frankenrude_66.7 mph
'70 something SpeedCraft_(Allison 16R Clone)_69.0 mph
'79 CVZ19_given away
'71 V153_54.8 mph_wrecked


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Offline WetRaider

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2013, 04:46:07 PM »
I'm good with decibels.  It's horsepower I can't figure out.
If you didn't get wet, you didn't have fun ~ WetRaider

Dan O'Connor
1979 GT 150 / 1976 Mercury 1150

Offline V153

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2013, 08:11:15 PM »
I'm good with decibels.  It's horsepower I can't figure out.

Ain't got a clue 'bout neither ...
'81 C500_given away, bought back_75.1 mph
'81 Baja 15SS_140 Frankenrude_66.7 mph
'70 something SpeedCraft_(Allison 16R Clone)_69.0 mph
'79 CVZ19_given away
'71 V153_54.8 mph_wrecked


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Offline wexrocks

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2013, 08:26:05 PM »
Not to dispute anyone, but dB's and watts come into play a little differently in audio than they do in electricity.

I spent many years competing in IASCA with car audio, sponsored by a local sales/installer store and Kicker (whose quality has unfortunately declined over the years to save money in manufacturing... overseas.). I did all my own custom installs, lots of fun, but VERY expensive at the competition level!

Simple explanation for car (boat) audio is... dB's register sound level (volume). Just like the exhaust police, who will measure your exhaust sound with a dB meter, so many feet back from your boat. Watts are the power (much like a generator, more watts= more power) that a speaker can handle at that particular manufacturers test levels, which vary across THD... they "adjust" the numbers to advertise a better number.

Frequency response range shows where the speaker excells... Bass, mids, highs. Different speakers are designed to produce different sounds, choosing the right one depends on what kind of music you listen to, and how loud.

Ideally, for optimum sound quality, you should buy speakers that will perform to your sound desires, then, over power them with good quality amplification. The idea is to not push the amplifiers so hard that they get into an extended power level, beyond their design. A strong power source also keeps the amps from overheating.

But alot of that only applies to higher power systems. A good way to get the most out of your investment in a realistic situation (the kind of system we want for our boats) is to make sure your speaker enclosures are the correct size and material. That makes a BIG difference in sound quality.

'79 CVZ-19 "convertible" w/Evinrude 175
'81 Scimitar
'89 CSS-19

Offline Glastronjohn18

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2013, 08:33:58 PM »
I thought I knew a little about horsepower and decibels. After reading this post it's obvious how little I do know. This forum is a wealth of info on many topics. I learn something new everyday hanging out here. As far as music goes I enjoy the sounds of a good stereo exhaust at full db.
John
'80 CVX 18 - Survivor Class
'78 CVX 18
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Offline wexrocks

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2013, 08:38:15 PM »
As far as music goes I enjoy the sounds of a good stereo exhaust at full db.

Now THAT'S good stuff!  ;D
'79 CVZ-19 "convertible" w/Evinrude 175
'81 Scimitar
'89 CSS-19

Offline V153

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2013, 09:05:14 PM »
Granpappy Jack always ordered his new Plymouth Fury 'radio delete'. His philosophy was that the radio only served to distract the driver ...

Must be hereditary cuz I'd much rather listen to the motor than a radio?

Ain't got nuthin aginst tunes, just sayin ...
'81 C500_given away, bought back_75.1 mph
'81 Baja 15SS_140 Frankenrude_66.7 mph
'70 something SpeedCraft_(Allison 16R Clone)_69.0 mph
'79 CVZ19_given away
'71 V153_54.8 mph_wrecked


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Offline wexrocks

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2013, 09:18:07 PM »
Granpappy Jack always ordered his new Plymouth Fury 'radio delete'. His philosophy was that the radio only served to distract the driver ...

Must be hereditary cuz I'd much rather listen to the motor than a radio?

Ain't got nuthin aginst tunes, just sayin ...

If I was drivin' a Plymouth Fury, I'd be listening to the motor too and waiting for the ethanol fuel to destroy the cast pistons!  ;D J/K... kinda. But the Fury wouldn't spend all day anchored on the sandbar, or floating downstream in the current watching a beautiful sunset... where tunes would be welcomed.

I get your point, just making light of it. A place for everything, and everything in it's place...
'79 CVZ-19 "convertible" w/Evinrude 175
'81 Scimitar
'89 CSS-19

Offline WetRaider

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2013, 09:27:16 PM »
Wex, I was an IASCA and USAC competitor, too.  Competed at the Pro level, without sponsorship - - - got myself into a regional event in Santa Fe, was looking at the power classes on everyone's windshield, noticed I didn't see any Pro competitors in my power class, so when I checked in I asked about the Pro level.  They said it's either by choice, or by sponsorship, or by being employed by a retailer where you can buy at a discounted price.  I thought why not ... only they didn't tell me that there were no power classes in the Pro regionals.  It didn't matter if you had one watt or 10,000 ... Pro was Pro and that was it.  Ouch.  Took home a 3rd place trophy, though for SoundQ Plus.  I was running a single-cab Ford Ranger with 3 JL 8W6's, some Soundstream Reference components, and pushed out 148 dB on only 300 watts.  I used an AudioControl EQL and managed a 27/30 for the RTA score setting by ear.  It was a big passion.

I did all my own installs, too.  Enjoyed it quite a bit.  My first big install for someone else was on a 1991 Acura Integra for John deJohn (I know, funny name) done in the garage of a friend named Bob Kessler.  He (John) was an MP at Ft. Bliss in Texas.  He went on to get a ton of first place trophies, USAC Nationals, articles in Car Audio & Electronics.  Douche said he did the install mostly himself.  I'm a real nut for speaker enclosures.  Calculating volume, really pushing for efficiency, tricking a few things out.  I enjoyed competing.  I really enjoyed the sound quality.  My favorite speakers are the Focal Utobia Be's --- smmmmoooooooth.  They need a lot of clean power, though.  In the affordable range, though, I've been extremely satisfied with the Alpine Pro X line.

In regards to speakers - the only real test anyone needs to perform is with their own ears.  A boat is a completely different environment.  People can get up and move around in a boat.  I think you'd have a real difficult time trying to generate any real soundstage.  If a set of speakers sounds good to you, get it.  But realize that all things being equal, the less efficient speaker will require more power/amplification to play at the same perceived volume as a more efficient speaker.  In general terms, on the water, the higher frequencies will carry to our ears more easily, while the lower frequencies will be attenuated because of the flexing in materials.  You'd need to set your midbass driver in a really rigid baffle, and probably have a full enclosure to not lose some of that range through the back wave.  


We should get together and take a free donor boat and make a psycho audio install on it ... :-)
If you didn't get wet, you didn't have fun ~ WetRaider

Dan O'Connor
1979 GT 150 / 1976 Mercury 1150

Offline wexrocks

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2013, 10:03:45 PM »
very well said!

I always went with Rockford Fosgate Punch amps due to their raw power. They always out-performed anyone, power-wise. Sound quality was fractional at that level, very close. But a Punch 500 watt amp could keep up with anyone else's 1500-2000 watt amp, and they sounded clean, so I stacked them up. Infinity was always good for sound quality, but I went Kicker for power handling. I had 4 Kicker Solo-Baric 12" subs each on a Punch 1000 amp bridged and clocked 163 dB... so you were doing VERY well with your equipment at those numbers! The rest of my system was Punch amps and Kicker separate systems (mid drivers and tweeters) and sounded good. Lots of power capacitors and a Fosgate Symetry system (multi channel digital crossover). Had to consult the factory on shared air space for four Solo-Barics... they liked it. Even ordered a factory carpet kit for the Ram it was in to make the entire speaker/sub/amp enclosure look factory. Had a lot of fun with it.
'79 CVZ-19 "convertible" w/Evinrude 175
'81 Scimitar
'89 CSS-19

Offline thedeuceman

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2013, 10:19:01 PM »
Ok...
I am into audio, but not to that level, at least not in cars.
That is vary cool, and high end.
Hey... I have 2 fosgate PR250 amps, I think they were the original fosgate amps. Could fix them and put them in the GT as they are about the right vintage ;)
Ok kj
Joe
75 GT150 "SeaDeuced"... Its Back !!
92 16CSS "Attitude Adjustment" is for sale
75 CV-16V8, Project
74 CV-16... its Purple !

Offline fireman24mn

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Re: Radio idea...
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2013, 10:36:11 PM »
We should get together and take a free donor boat and make a psycho audio install on it ... :-)


I have a donor 23 let me know when you wanna start.

 I also did a lot of car audio when younger. I was voted most likely to need a hearing aid by my high school class. You guys were far more into it then me but I installed all my friends systems. Tinted there window and fixed it when they hit a deer.  I will have to chat with you guys when it is time for the 23 radio install.  In the 18 I set the speakers so they would point up and out so you could hear it 20 feet away and not have to have it on full blast.
I think this has become an addiction.


1977 CV-23 I/O Full Resto complete
1976 CV-16 V8 Resto in progress
1985 Pearson MotorYacht 43ft