Author Topic: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"  (Read 20245 times)

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Offline buckz6319

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2014, 11:00:33 AM »
Your best bet is to go new. Less time trying to sell old junk w/o a motor, ect. If you plan to keep the boat a long time a new engine is the way to go. Just get a long block and everything can be swapped over. The manifold will be the only risk as it could have cracked too.
I agree with Jason,  " if you can afford new" it would save you a lot of time trying to figure out  " what's wrong with the used one I bought, thought it was good "

If you decide on a used doner?  Like Jason already said " lake test it for hours, run the crap out of it, and hope it don't have crap in the oil when your test is over"
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 11:02:55 AM by buckz6319 »
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Offline buckz6319

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2014, 11:12:11 AM »
Bob, sounds like a good offer from Jason, and a few others:)

I also thought about purchasing an engine from Michigan Motors, good reputable company I have heard. I just couldn't come up with enough money to get one. I think it is an outstanding buy

An outstanding offer.  Jason I will PM you.  Here is the craigslist ad the owner put up referencing the consignment sale -- I am laughing a bit regarding the "tuned engine" quote from within it.   http://brainerd.craigslist.org/boa/4584353761.html

Here is a photo I took of the boat on the trailer.  It looks like Michigan Motors has a good option and at least they upgrade distributor to the full electronic.  Base engine kit is shown here - http://www.michiganmotorz.com/base-marine-engine-19672014-replacement-p-67.html they even do complete engines at about double the price.




I will keep everyone posted since this week I will likely get the news of where the crack is - thanks - Bob
Bob, if that boat looks as good in person, as it does in the class ad... that is one good looking boat, really sharp!
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Offline Hyperacme

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2014, 11:37:41 AM »
After removing motor you might find some other problems, bad wood ...
Hope not, but could be discovered and fixed then.
Any updates on oil/water problem ?

Offline Jason

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2014, 12:06:17 PM »
After removing motor you might find some other problems, bad wood ...
Hope not, but could be discovered and fixed then.
Any updates on oil/water problem ?

If we find that we'll have to send it down to Jeff's 3 hour floor and transom repair shop in Lakeville!
Jason S.
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Offline Hyperacme

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2014, 01:03:11 PM »
Will Jeff make "House calls" ...
LOL

Offline rmorit01

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2014, 01:29:24 PM »
After removing motor you might find some other problems, bad wood ...
Hope not, but could be discovered and fixed then.
Any updates on oil/water problem ?

No updates yet...I know that one problem could lead to the next and the next but patience and perseverance is my motto right now. 

I have to wait until Wednesday to speak the owner of C and C boatworks to see if he can speak with the owner about the sale through them on consignment so everything seems slow from just getting a hold of the right person to waiting for the current boat shop to troubleshoot the simple things to let me know if, in fact, the block is cracked.

Thanks - Bob


Offline Fuzzbutt

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2014, 08:29:23 AM »
I think the guys are right on get the new one if you can. A lot less worms to deal with. My neighbor had a 3.0 in a Searay that cracked and he drove it for a couple years till selling it for cheap. The crack was on the outside though and he filled it with JBWeld a few times (He's a real scrapper and will do anything for the "free" fix). Personally I'd go new. It's worth the investment and safety that comes with knowing your engine is going to get you home.
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Offline WetRaider

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2014, 08:19:25 PM »
You guys crack me up with the Jeff comments … it's amazing how fast Gregg's transom was replaced!

Bob, you're in good hands.
If you didn't get wet, you didn't have fun ~ WetRaider

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Offline rmorit01

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2014, 09:49:13 PM »
Quote
author=WetRaider link=topic=5392.msg74138#msg74138 date=1407374365

...Bob, you're in good hands.

It sure seems that way.  I am still weighing the options but the folks trying to track down the source of the "water" in the oil have ruled out the head gasket and simply suggest that the time they spend trying to track down the source isn't really worth the effort since they would want to magnaflux parts etc...

They are basically recommending to stop the troubleshooting process and either go with a new long block or replace with a known good 3.0 that they might be able to source.  I am going to see what they can come up with for the price of a known good unit.

I then want to compare that with a price of Michigan Motorz long block and what I am going to call the "brotherhood of the CGOAMN" members or maybe more like the "sympathy of the cracked block" brigade and taking up Jason on the gracious offer to help to lead an engine swap.

Tomorrow the owner of the marina that sold the boat on consignment returns so I hope to speak with him and see what he has to say.

Thanks - Bob


Offline buckz6319

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2014, 05:25:44 AM »
Quote
author=WetRaider link=topic=5392.msg74138#msg74138 date=1407374365

...Bob, you're in good hands.

It sure seems that way.  I am still weighing the options but the folks trying to track down the source of the "water" in the oil have ruled out the head gasket and simply suggest that the time they spend trying to track down the source isn't really worth the effort since they would want to magnaflux parts etc...

They are basically recommending to stop the troubleshooting process and either go with a new long block or replace with a known good 3.0 that they might be able to source.  I am going to see what they can come up with for the price of a known good unit.

I then want to compare that with a price of Michigan Motorz long block and what I am going to call the "brotherhood of the CGOAMN" members or maybe more like the "sympathy of the cracked block" brigade and taking up Jason on the gracious offer to help to lead an engine swap.

Tomorrow the owner of the marina that sold the boat on consignment returns so I hope to speak with him and see what he has to say.

Thanks - Bob
good Luck Bob!
did they do an air pressure test on the water jacket system? that is a relatively quick test for cracks, provided they have all the correct store bought clamps, fitting stoppers ect

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Offline rmorit01

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2014, 07:41:02 AM »
Quote
good Luck Bob!
did they do an air pressure test on the water jacket system? that is a relatively quick test for cracks, provided they have all the correct store bought clamps, fitting stoppers ect

No they did not.  This seems to be part of the problem working with a boat shop at least the specific shop I took it too. 

Locally in Madison there are no shops that I have talked with who will even look at a boat older than the 1990s.

So I feel I am a bit trapped by either asking the shop to tear into the motor, which they are reluctant to do since they don't want them racking up a trouble shooting bill vs. making a call to replace it.

I have one more potential independent marine mechanic to speak with to see if they could balance the cost of troubleshooting against the likely scenario of a cracked block.

Bob



« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 09:54:39 AM by dorelse »

Offline rmorit01

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2014, 05:54:43 PM »
Okay a bit of an update.

I decided to move the boat from the shop I took it too to get the oil changed.  They were perhaps more outboard savvy vs. inboard savvy.

So I took it to the place that had a 1994 3.0LX called Peterson Marina in Waupaca, WI.  At least these folks are able to tell me that they believe the water is entering through cylinder number four.  So they are working to determine if it is: 1) bad exhaust elbow manifold gasket, bad manifold or internal crack.

They did ask if I knew anyone who may have pulled one of these engines in case it is a crack in the block.  They see that it is really a tight fit between the manifold and the top of the edge of the rear deck where the manifold is under the rear section of the engine bay near the transom.

They described the issue for them as follows: 
Quote
The reason it is so difficult to get apart is the clearance above the exhaust elbow.  That elbow has studs coming up from the manifold, not bolts going down, this means you have to lift the elbow to get it off the manifold....not enough clearance.  So you can take of the manifold and drop it away from the elbow. 

In order to do this you have to swing the manifold away from the block and drop it, however there are 2 studs in the manifold as well making it impossible to turn it, you would have to pull it straight off the side to get it off but you can't because of the elbow being attached.  Catch 22 on this one.  It may be possible to pull the engine entirely by removing the back seats from the boat and go forward with the engine and then up, but the boot on the exhaust elbow is not usually flexible enough to do that. 

The entire job is one of those things that you just start taking it apart and deal with the issues when you get to them, but that is not very cost effective and no way to give an estimate on a job like this as we don't know what we will run into getting it out of the boat...once out, you run into the problem of making everything work with a new block/engine, then you have to get it all back in.
I hope this helps.

Is there a "secret" to extracting a 140 engine with these clearance issues?  Are they missing something obvious in terms of removing that rear engine cover (vented cover) in the back to get at the manifold or exhaust elbow?

I was thinking you could go through that hatch to remove exhaust coupler or perhaps the purpose is to access other areas?

Anyone that has removed the engine from this kind of configuration and "how" you unraveled the puzzle would be very helpful.


Thanks - Bob


Offline carlsoncvx18

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2014, 08:32:13 PM »
Have not seen the boat, but my best guess would be hatch off and remove back seat.
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Offline Rich_V174SS

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2014, 08:33:33 PM »
If the rear seat can come out you can shimmy the engine forward enough to hoist it straight up out of the boat.
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Offline Hyperacme

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2014, 08:51:44 PM »
Shouldn't be a problem removing seat.
Pictures ...


Offline dorelse

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2014, 08:58:24 PM »
I'd agree...bench out, hatch off...should be able to slide & lift the engine forward & out.
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Offline rmorit01

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2014, 09:11:46 PM »
I'd agree...bench out, hatch off...should be able to slide & lift the engine forward & out.

Hopefully it won't require the removal but giving them guidance should be helpful if it comes down to that.

Thanks again - Bob

Offline Hyperacme

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2014, 09:28:34 PM »
Would be helpful if you could take some pictures of seat & hatch lifted so we know what under there.
Might be a wood/fiberglass piece running across the back, which has to be cut out and tabbed/glassed back in when finished removing/installing motor
Any thing can be fixed ... But your paying an hourly rate to do it.
Seem like an honest dealer thought, one that would warn you about problems/expenses ...

Offline dorelse

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2014, 09:30:48 PM »
I'd agree...bench out, hatch off...should be able to slide & lift the engine forward & out.

Hopefully it won't require the removal but giving them guidance should be helpful if it comes down to that.

Thanks again - Bob

Honestly Bob, you'll have us all at Red Wing in 3 days...care to tow it down?
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Offline rmorit01

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Re: New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2014, 09:40:17 PM »
Would be helpful if you could take some pictures of seat & hatch lifted so we know what under there.
Might be a wood/fiberglass piece running across the back, which has to be cut out and tabbed/glassed back in when finished removing/installing motor
Any thing can be fixed ... But your paying an hourly rate to do it.
Seem like an honest dealer thought, one that would warn you about problems/expenses ...

Since it has the fold out seat I have a picture showing how it is attached and what I am calling the "barrier" between the back of the seat and the engine compartment.  It seems like a 3/8 inch piece of wood covered in the vinyl and on the face has screws that are covered with a small plastic cover. 

The guys working on the boat had a later Glastron in their shop and I think with a little reassurance they will figure this out.  Hopefully the engine won't have to come out but we will see.

Here is a picture looking down the back of the engine compartment.  You can see how the hinges are setup for the seat to fold out and you can see the hinge screwed into the "barrier" for the engine compartment.  It is the only picture I have since I am not with the boat.

Thanks - Bob