New purchase...but mechanic has told me "water in the oil"

[rmorit01]

author=dorelse link=topic=5392.msg74577#msg74577 date=1407810648]
Honestly Bob, you'll have us all at Red Wing in 3 days...care to tow it down?

Well my hope was that with a little troubleshooting these guys would have it figured out by Red Wing, but we can only see. 

In the meantime life in general is likely going to get in the way for Redwing.  My father who is 86 went into the hospital on Saturday night as they try to figure out a virus that has weakened him to the point that he can't stand up on his own.

At least mechanical things can get figured but likely not in time for Red Wing.  Hopefully, the Doctors can figure his issues out . . . the boat will just have to  wait for a bit and hopefully the guys who are looking at it can figure it out.  If not, I will be speaking in more detail with Jason.

Thanks - Bob

[dorelse]

Ok, family before boats...

Are you needing a complete refund Bob?  I'll get that going for you now if you like?

[Hyperacme]

Our hope's and prayers go out to your Father, for a fast recovery ...

Would bet that vinyl covered wood, would come out easily, looks like it's what ties everything together ...
Hope it's not a cracked block ....

[rmorit01]

Ok, family before boats...

Are you needing a complete refund Bob?  I'll get that going for you now if you like?

Lets just wait and see.  Clearly, I won't have the boat but if I can run up on Saturday I hope I can do that.  No worries. 

Hopefully on Wednesday/Thursday I will have good news on all fronts.

Thanks and I appreciate the prayers - hopefully he just gets a good day in tomorrow and he will be on to recovery.

Bob

[Jason]

Bob,

I agree with everything the last shop told you. He is right about the intake manifold and all the studs making it very tricky to move the engine in the right direction. The only trick I can think of is to remove the studs holding the intake on to the block. Then slide the motor forward. I agree with the shop and am also concerned about not having enough flexibility in the rubber exhaust hose.

As far as the "barrier", I am sure that comes out.

Maybe by removing the front motor mount you can tilt the front of the motor down far enough to either pop the boot of the exhaust pipe or remove the exhaust riser.

I am sure that motor will come out of there one way or another it's just a matter of figuring out Glastron's secrets..

Also very sad to hear about your dad.

Hopefully you can make it to the meet for at least one day.

[rmorit01]

Update based on 3 mechanics looking at the engine so far at this facility.

They believe it is a gasket issue, but suggest that I do the work myself or find an independent marine mechanic who doesn't charge their rates.  They believe if they did the work the cost for them to track this down could exceed the cost of the boat (in their opinion).  Note, they "believe the compression is there" but water can cause inconsistent readings (not sure if they did a compression test).

They believe it is one of the following:

1. Elbow gasket
2. Manifold gasket
3. Head gasket

I know what the first two gaskets are, but not sure what an elbow gasket is?

Remember I need to do this work in a storage garage (no power, no water) so I am curious if these are doable in a facility where I am not just walking across the yard to the garage?  Alternatively, there seems to be a marine mechanic near my storage facility who operates on only older boats at least from what is in their yard and I can see in their garage.

Appreciate opinions - Bob

[Hyperacme]

" Alternatively, there seems to be a marine mechanic near my storage facility who operates on only older boats at least from what is in their yard and I can see in their garage. "

Talk to him ... see what he thinks ...

Again ... don't worry about a refund ... If you can't make it, we will refund the full amount !
How's your Dad doing ?

[rmorit01]

" Alternatively, there seems to be a marine mechanic near my storage facility who operates on only older boats at least from what is in their yard and I can see in their garage. "

Talk to him ... see what he thinks ...

Again ... don't worry about a refund ... If you can't make it, we will refund the full amount !
How's your Dad doing ?

Thanks -

Updates so far are - local private marine mechanic is going to give me a call in a day or two to see when he can fit it in over the next 3 weeks to see what he can do.  If I hear "too big of a job" one more time -- I will break out the tools and start taking it apart and determine how much patience I have. 

My father has been diagnosed with pneumonia today (he is 86, not very mobile)  and at his age that could be a big problem since he had difficulties sitting in bed yesterday and they only were able to get him out of the bed once to sit in a chair.  They also aren't sure if he came in with pneumonia or if it is a consequence of being in bed in a weakened state in the hospital.  They have to watch him for early signs of respiratory failure.

So there is a small chance I could trailer the boat up to Red Wing on Saturday, maybe camp overnight or just leave in the evening.  Put in storage and wait it out a bit for the next mechanic who is more comfortable with "older boats" -

Thanks again and would love to hear about or reference any posts where someone has broken down the elbow, exhaust manifold and removed the head to check and replace gaskets - I will be searching the site for projects.

Thanks - Bob
Thanks - Bob

[75starflight]

Bob here is one for you, it is on a Mercruiser 140 and is essentially the same engine. Might help you some

http://forum.cgoamn.com/index.php?topic=5384.0

[Jason]

I am curious how they came to the conclusion it's a gasket.
Well it's not the manifold  to engine gasket as water does not pass through it. Elbow or riser gasket....maybe. Head gasket.....maybe.

Bob, can you post some pics showing the fit between the manifold and engine compartment sides?

[rmorit01]

Folks -

I won't be making it to Red Wing - family comes first and my father who went into the hospital with pnemonia has no scheduled release to a rehab center since he is responding slowly to the first antibiotic they put him on.  Tonight they started another drug so hopefully in 24 hours we will see that start to take care of the infection.

I will pickup the boat from the current place and get a run down from their mechanics on why they think it is "gaskets" vs. some other problem and exactly what they did or didn't do.  It just happens that 3 doors down from my storage facility is an independent mechanic who seems to only have "old and older" boats in his yard or in the shop.

So he will be the last expert who looks at before I decide the next steps with it.

Thanks again - Bob

[rmorit01]

I am curious how they came to the conclusion it's a gasket.
Well it's not the manifold  to engine gasket as water does not pass through it. Elbow or riser gasket....maybe. Head gasket.....maybe.

Bob, can you post some pics showing the fit between the manifold and engine compartment sides?

Jason,

The pictures below show the tight fit and how the riser just slides under the overhang of the rear of the boat.

I picked up the boat and of the 3 shop mechanics that they have, with one gentleman being in his 60's, they were suspecting the riser gasket due to the water spraying out of cylinder 3 and 4 when they turned it over with the spark plugs out.  The mechanic explained that what they do is fill the manifold with water, turn over the engine with the spark plugs out and then try to see where the water is entering the cylinder. Plus, check how much water no longer is in the manifold.  In addition, they did a compression check and basically said strong compression but they get readings all over the place in cylinder 3 and 4 with the water in it.  They advised that most often they see in these engines the riser gasket or a head gasket.  He also mentioned the manifold gasket but consensus is that there is no water that can infiltrate through that gasket.  I think the mechanic was simply saying they typically replace all three when they have them apart.

Now for the problem that they didn't want to address.  They said typically they would pull the riser, manifold and check the head gasket and it is a simple job when you have access to the engine.  Here are the pictures of the problem that they didn't want to solve for, due to the time and effort to tear into things.

The first picture is looking down into the engine compartment and you can see the "overhang" of the boat and the manifold and riser running underneath.  In the second picture here is the "gap" between the riser and the overhang of the boat about the length of my fingernail.  Then in the 3rd picture is the length of the riser studs, just call that about an inch and then the next picture is of the manifold studs since they were thinking of swinging the manifold out but that is a no go too with the studs and riser.

The mechanic did want to know if there was some trick they might be missing.  He advised that they don't like to put pressure on the fiberglass since it could create spider cracks but in tight squeezes there is some give but not much.  He was curious if the boat had to be split to get the engine out?

Any suggestions on how to start taking it apart?  Or does anyone see how the engine could come out if needed?

Thanks - Bob



About the width of a fingernail -


Length of the riser studs - just call it an inch -


Here is a view of the manifold attached with studs also - mechanic said in his experience attempting to turn these out results in a broken stud.



Here is a google plus post with more photos - https://plus.google.com/u/0/+RobertMoritz01/posts/YH9ugiLVrJz?pid=6049045029055337666&oid=117893088135905942662

Lastly, they do have a good running 1994 3.0 engine that they ran and tested before pulling out of a Rinker - however, you can see the changes in the manifold and the angled riser. 

[CVX Fever]

It looks to me like someone has had the manifold and riser apart a least once already judging by the chipped paint of the bolt heads and nuts. 

I guess I would start by taking the engine cover off and removing the back seat for better/easier access. Take the 4 bolts off the riser, loosen the gear clamps on the exhaust boot and then take all the nuts and bolts out of the exhaust/intake manifold and see if I could could get enough play to get the exhaust manifold out. Anything attached to the manifold or otherwise in the way would have to be removed of course. Take lots of pictures that will help with putting everything back together.

My dad has a 1986 X16D with the 140 MerCruiser. It is almost identical to your boat except it is an open bow and the 2 padded access covers on either side of the engine cover are done a little differently. I have always noticed on his how close the riser sits to the back of the boat and often thought it would be a real pain to pull the motor if he ever had to do it.  So I find this interesting. I'd wager when the boat was built the engine was dropped in before the deck was put on. I suspect this is done often by many boat manufacturers for easier/quicker/cheaper assembly.

[Jason]

I agree with Kip. Just start loosening everything up and see what gets in the way. If you can push that rubber boot down far enough to remove it from the riser then the entire engine manifold package could slide forward and then up. With seat out of course!

As far as the 93 motor you could use your manifold. I think the only problem may be the coupler as i remember it changed at some point.